Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Why do the religious institutions in the past and also today have made the natural act of sex a sin? Why is it a sin? Can't we progress in spirituality with out giving up sex? If not, then why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinimat Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 What I believe the scriptures say, and please correct me if I am mistaken, is that sex is a natural, animal instinct. It is not a "sin". However, if one becomes attached to the sex impulse, then one's advancement spiritually will be impeded. The sexual response is associated with lower forms of life, lower chakras. How can we access higher realms of consciousness or higher chakras, when we can't get past the pleasure associated with a lower one? In addition, Srila Prabhupada says that some of us (I believe householders) are not to completely renounce sex, but rather restrict it. Therefore, it is saved for non-illict purposes, i.e. between a husband and wife. I believe that we can advance spiritually if we follow Srila Prabhupada's instructions about restricting sex. In my case, I was already a householder prior to finding the Krishna Consciousness movement. In addition, my wife is not interested in Krishna Consciousness or especially us becoming celebate. Therefore, I try to the best of my ability to serve Krishna as a housholder by practicing restricted sex with her. I believe this is better than divorcing my wife and completely giving up my duties as a husband. I would like to hear other people's opinions about this- especially people who have experience being a householder devotee. Hare Krishna! Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Hare Krishna You have to turn the 'Lust' into love of Godhead(Krishna) Therefore you have to restain yourself from sex life Simple. <font color="blue">O </font color> <font color="green"> Mind </font color> <font color="red"> Just </font color> <font color="orange">Worship </font color> <font color="black"> Krsna </font color> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 That is the point. Why should you give up lust if it does not affect your spirituality. Why should you force yourself in this unnatural way. Krishna never said give up sex in bhagavath gita. He told us to live a balanced life. He also said that he will not be seen by the people who will go to the extreme. Example: extreme eating, extreme sleeping etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Hare Krishna I said, restrain not give up, do it for having children, otherwise keep control (difficult!), anyway if you give up alltogether then Krishna is Yours*....Haribol! Provided you have Bona-fide spiritual master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 and then I am outta here. Obvously, someone is thinking a little too much about sex and that is a part of the problem. It is difficult enough as it is. go find something better to do and think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 I am also a sincere seeker, please answer me. The fact is this, I cannot comprehend how sex stops us from advancing in spirituality. You keep repeating the words of shastra by taking them as the law and not thinking about why they say such things. Not understanding these laws and blindly following them will be a huge stone on my road to krishna. Please, I do not mean to offend any one here, I do respect the shastra but I cannot take anything for granted. If the you say "cuz krishna will love you only if you give up sex" then this would sound as ridiculous as christians saying "God says so" and blindly following it. Please sincerely answer me with some thought put into the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Hare Krishna I agree, they are! Practice devotional acts more, get into the habit, then sex thought etc won't bother so much, pratice and habit are the key words, Chant Hare Krishna more every day, and read Gita. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Hare Krishna From what I have learnt on the Issue Guest (sorry if the answers weren't so sincere), sex is the greatest thing binding us to this material world, it is like a prison house, the more you think of sex the more you are bound in Maya&s strong net, Krishna is pure so we have to become pure to associate with Him, sex life for begetting children is fine, otherwise it is a waste of energy, you need to direct your energy to become Krishna Conscious, and think of Him before you die, and then go to Him, abundant sex life destroys the urge for self-realisation, the soul cannot show its full potential because it is covered by Lust - which can be called sex life as well, sex equals lust, so this lust has to be transformed into love of Godhead, if you dont give up lust then you have NO CHANCE of becoming God Conscious in this life or the next. That is my take on the subject, Hope it helps, but there are much more qualified Prabhus/Mata here in this forum who could help you better..Haribol. <font color="blue">O </font color> <font color="green"> Mind </font color> <font color="red"> Just </font color> <font color="orange">Worship </font color> <font color="black"> Krsna </font color> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 "I cannot comprehend how sex stops us from advancing in spirituality." as a general concept, sex , being the biggest enjoyement (maybe the only) in this world, is the strongest attachment to this material condition and to the body. and we must realize that we are not the body to quit this material world a spiritualist is also required to be equal with everyone, if we see the people in term of objects of enjoyements in sex or in anything else we do not develope this perspective . in a personal point of view your proposite to avoid the excess is good, repression is the worst thing... the problem is to know what is , for us, the right behaviour for avoid the excesses of too much gratification or repression and fanaticism.. for this purpose an expert and pure spiritual master would be required, he can suggest the proper balance on personal basis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 I am also a sincere seeker, please answer me. The fact is this, I cannot comprehend how sex stops us from advancing in spirituality. You keep repeating the words of shastra by taking them as the law and not thinking about why they say such things. Not understanding these laws and blindly following them will be a huge stone on my road to krishna. Please, I do not mean to offend any one here, I do respect the shastra but I cannot take anything for granted. If the you say "cuz krishna will love you only if you give up sex" then this would sound as ridiculous as christians saying "God says so" and blindly following it. Please sincerely answer me with some thought put into the issue. ******* You can appraoch it in a totally cultural way also. In patriarchal societies, most religions, illicit sex is to be avoided because they needed to know who is the father. Think about it, when a woman is pregnant you know who is the mother right? (Unless our modern scientist transfer the embryo, but that is irrelevant). Who's the father???? In a society with men wanting control they will instigate such rules so that they will know who is their child. This is very well hidden, in reliogisity. These societies needed to have control of who is the father because of some hidden attachment. There is also another point, material again, to restricting sex, again from earlier days without our demoniac birth control methods, for a man it doesn't take much energy to beget a child. Do it and forget it right?... But for a woman she has this parasite growing inside her for 9 months then has to take care of that little thing. To know who is the father is to also give responsability to him to take care of his wife during their marriage, sharinga burden of love we can say. This is just due to the nature of humans to want to bunch up together in societies. The true love of God has nothing to do with a material body of identification with any societal body. Sex is the basis for material society, therefore restricting sex will restrict the individuals from feeling safe in their little family cocoon. We are butterflies, we need to get out of any material cocoon our mind creates for us, and sex is one of them. This said sex is not the only thing we need to restrict, but for many people it is the summum bonum and after that they feel they can sit down and relax because they think they are free from maya... WRONG!!!! Pride is even more entangling than sex... in my humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 are u practicing what you preach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 The fact is this, I cannot comprehend how sex stops us from advancing in spirituality. You keep repeating the words of shastra by taking them as the law and not thinking about why they say such things. It helps me to understand sometimes if I can break things down to my immediate experience. The goal of yoga practice is to bring the mind to a point where it is fixed on Krsna. So it stands to reason that anything that diverts the mind from Krsna is a block to our spiritual progress. And further the goal is to fix our mind on Krsna with in a loving,serving mood. He is the enjoyer, we are the enjoyed. When my mind is fixated on the sex desire and I absorb myself into that desire I am then thinking of how nice it would be to be the prime enjoyer myself. Wanting to be the enjoyer is the cause of material bondage, just the opposite of the goal of yoga. By experiencing sex it inflames that desiring of the mind, entangling the soul more and more in this material dream. We want to ignite the fire of Krsna bhakti instead. The example is used of a person trying to light a fire while simultaneously pouring water on it. The transition from material consciousness to spiritual conscious can be difficult for us. It feels like swimming agaist the river current. But when we become intelligent enough to see that the river current is carrying us to going over a waterfall we realize we have no other intelligent choice. Patient determined perserverance is required. We must be prepared to get up again after every falldown. We must keep going at all costs. But to prevent those fall downs is the more intelligent choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 **** are u practicing what you preach? **** hmmm .. did you ask this to the person who wrote the response above your question? If so then I'll answer otherwise disregard. I do not identify myself with any society, as an example my father always refer to ISKCON as 'my society', but I alwasy remind him that I'm not, 'I'm just a traveler now stuck in this body'. He hates it when I say that. Until I realize and understand my eternal relationship with the Absolute Truth yes I do practise detachment from any identification with any societies (karmic, workplace, yogic, bhakti, etc). My fault, perhaps, but I fail to see a point to care. As for sex, yes also. I will admit that I can still have a desire for it, but I do not act upon that desire. Pride is still my greatest problem and I know it cocoons me from love of Krishna. People ask devotees how to fight sex desire. I can ask with same plea: How to fight pride??? And pride is as abobinable as sex, actually worst in my case. I'm so proud I don't even talk to great devotees of the Lord, I don't need their help, I'm already pure... NOT!!! Hare Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 *** If the you say "cuz krishna will love you only if you give up sex" then this would sound as ridiculous as christians saying "God says so" and blindly following it. *** Actually Krishna loves you, otherwise he wouldn't be in your heart as the Supersoul. There is a nice statment: "In the Mundaka Upanisad it is stated that there are two birds sitting on the same tree, and one of these birds is eating the fruit of this tree while the other bird is simply witnessing his activities. Only when the bird eating the fruit looks at the other bird does he become free from all anxieties." Krishna is the bird who is looking at you the living entity who tries to enjoy his senses. So Krishna loves you because he stays next to you until you decide to turn to Him. The real statment is that "if you give up selfish motivations then YOU will love Krishna." Krishna always loves YOU, but YOU don't. And this doesn't have to do with sex only. Sex is only a scratch in the mountain of selfish desires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 "Does he love Me?" "No, he loves his senses." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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