Something I cant fathom out ?

[ShaneK]

Nemaste,

 

Bhagawan Shri Krishna accentuates in the Bhagawad Gita that one must live their life devoid of material attachments and bondage from this material world.

 

The next time that you look at a picture or a murthi of Bhagawan, look very carefully at how HE is adorned. Look at any deity in any Mandir for that matter. Gold Crowns, Jewellery, Fancy Attires and Outfits? Is this Bhagawan's teachings and underlying principles of abstinence from materialism ?

 

 

[Guest guest]

It is we people, who would want to see Him all dressed up and beautifully adorned with jewellary. He is formless basically but has assumed various forms for the sake of devotees. He is pristine pure without any desires for material objects, though He has created the material world. God is present even in a black stone or a tree, which does not attract us at all. Do we have the vision to see Him everywhere? You look like a beginner.

[stonehearted]

In fact, Krishna is Bhagavan, the reservoir everything we find attractive: wealth, power, beauty, knowledge, influence, and renunciation. As such, He is the natural owner and controller of everything, animate or inanimate. And although He has no need for these things, and no attachment for them, it is our natural position as His eternal servants to offer His rightful property to Him.

 

No, dear other guest, He is not essentially formless. Rather, He is the original form of eternity, knowledge and bliss. His eternal transcendental form is the origin of everything. Moreover, you and I have an eternal, loving relationship with Him, and the real business of human life is to understand that fact and begin to revive that original relationship with Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

If you both would like to begin a real adventure, a real soul quest, why not read some of the books of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada? I'd suggest starting with Sri Isopanishad and Bhagavad-gita AS It Is. There are also other books published by the BBT to help you understand these basic concepts in spiritual life, but I think these two would be a great place for you to start. Also, other devotees of Krishna have written books meant for introducing the core ideas of Krishna consciousness. Two you might find helpful are The Joy of Self and Rasa: Love Relationships in Transcendence, both by Swami B. V. Tripurari. They are available from http://www.swami.org/sanga/. Click on "Books" in the left-hand column. That site also has a Q & A Forum, where you can address any questions you have about spiritual life to Swami Tripurari.

 

Babhru das

[livingentity]

Always!! I enjoy seeing the beautiful form of Lord Krsna lovingly decorated and glorious to see! All attractive...words can not describe. What...we should dress our Lord in less than the best and the finest?

 

 

The next time that you look at a picture or a murthi of Bhagawan, look very carefully at how HE is adorned. Look at any deity in any Mandir for that matter. Gold Crowns, Jewellery, Fancy Attires and Outfits?

 

 

[ShaneK]

Dear Guest,

I am indeed a beginner, as I have a quest for knowledge.

I am new to this forum, and new to the teachings of the Gita As It Is , which I have just started to read. It is quite interesting at this stage. I just want to add something. Swami Prabupadha's interpretations of the verses therein, are based on his opinions. Like the very nature of opinions, "factual" is not a specified requirement. Therefore I would like to add that there are interpretations which I feel, is based on Swami's opinions.

 

Why should we take this as being FACTUAL ??

 

 

 

 

[livingentity]

of this a long time ago and I can not remember where it was. I am not sure now if Srila Prabhupada gave the explanation or not but I will do some research tomorrow and try to find it.

 

Basically, it was that although Krsna played the cowherd boy (cowherds would not be so decorated)- He is lavishly and gloriously decorated to show us spiritual riches - these jewels etc are not material riches.

 

Anyway, I will try to find this tomorrow so that it can be properly quoted etc. My mind is dull and tired now.

[ShaneK]

 

BUT ... Is this form not a mere artistic impression on how Krishna looks ?

 

Or any other deity for that matter ??????

 

[livingentity]

descriptions of Lord Krsna are given to us in the vedic scriptures.

 

 

BUT ... Is this form not a mere artistic impression on how Krishna looks ?

Or any other deity for that matter ??????

 

 

[stonehearted]

Actually, Srila Prabhupada's explanations are based exactly on the explanations given by self-realized spiritual masters for ages. There's nothing in there of his personal opinion, but they are full with his realizations of what spiritual life is.

 

Did you read the Introduction first? In it Srila Prabhupada suggests that if we read Bhagavad-gita accepting--even hypothetically--that Krishna is who He says He is, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, we will be able to understnd its mysteries. When I read it like that back in 1969-70, it made sense as no other book had before.

 

So read the Introduction, and try to understand Bhagavad-gita in this spirit. If you do, you'll very likely find something that changes your life.

[ShaneK]

Would you mind telling me which scrpture and what verse this is revealed in ?

I am a firm believer in the ABsolute, but I believe that the Absolute has no form, he is not visible without the grace of Divine Eyes ...

 

[livingentity]

Srila Prabhupada's introduction to Bhagavad Gita As It Is is extremely important and not to be just glanced over or skipped. The intro could even be a book unto itself. You should read it and then re-read it very carefully. Study the intro.

[livingentity]

gives descriptions in many places.

 

I am sure you could also do this yourself on the web as many of the vedas are now on the web and easily located. So much info right at our fingertips now.

 

Anyway, I will check in tomorrow. It is late here.

[Guest guest]

if absolute has no form ... how can you have a form?

 

[gHari]

From Brahma-Samhita, verses 5.30 and 5.38:<blockquote><center><font color="red">veNuM kvaNantam aravinda-dalAyatAkSam-

barhAvataMsam asitAmbuda-sundarAGgam

kandarpa-koTi-kamanIya-vizeSa-zobhaM

govindam Adi-puruSaM tam ahaM bhajAmi

</center>

veNum--the flute; kvaNantam--playing; aravinda-dala--(like) lotus petals; Ayata--blooming; akSam--whose eyes; barha--a peacock's feather; avataMsam--whose ornament on the head; asita-ambuda--(tinged with the hue of) blue clouds; sundara--beautiful; aGgam--whose figure; kandarpa--of Cupids; koTi--millions; kamanIya--charming; vizeSa--unique; zobham--whose loveliness; govindam--Govinda; Adi-puruSam--the original person; tam--Him; aham--I; bhajAmi--worship.

</font>

I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is adept in playing on His flute, with blooming eyes like lotus petals with head decked with peacock's feather, with the figure of beauty tinged with the hue of blue clouds, and His unique loveliness charming millions of Cupids.

 

PURPORT

The matchless beauty of KRSNa, the Supreme Lord of Goloka, is being described. KRSNa, the all-pervading cognition, has a spiritual form of His own. The form of KRSNa is not a fanciful creation of imagination formed after visualizing the beautiful things of the world. What BrahmA saw in his ecstatic trance of pure devotion, is being described. KRSNa is engaged in playing upon His flute. That flute by his enchanting musical sound attracts the hearts of all living beings. Just as a lotus petal produces a pleasant sight, so the two beautiful eyes of KRSNa who causes the manifestation of our spiritual vision, display the unlimited splendor and beauty of His moonlike face. The loveliness that adorns His head with peacock feather figures, the corresponding feature of the spiritual beauty of KRSNa. Just as a mass of blue clouds offers a specifically soothing, pleasant view, the complexion of KRSNa is analogously tinged with a spiritual dark-blue color. The beauty and loveliness of KRSNa is far more enchanting that that of Cupid multiplied a millionfold.</blockquote>

<center><img src=http://home.primus.ca/~caitanya/Syamasundara.jpg></center>

<blockquote><center><font color="red">premAJjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaH sadaiva hRdayeSu vilokayanti

yaM zyAmasundaram acintya-guNa-svarUpaM

govindam Adi-puruSaM tam ahaM bhajAmi

</center>

prema--of love; aJjana--with the salve; churita--tinged; bhakti--of devotion; vilocanena--with the eye; santaH--the pure devotees; sadA--always; eva--indeed; hRdayeSu--in their hearts; vilokayanti--see; yam--whom; zyAma--dark blue; sundaram--beautiful; acintya--inconceivable; guNa--with attributes; svarUpam--whose nature is endowed; govindam--Govinda; Adi-puruSam--the original person; tam--Him; aham--I; bhajAmi--worship.

</font>

I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is SyAmasundara, KRSNa Himself with inconceivable innumerable attributes, whom the pure devotees see in their heart of hearts with the eye of devotion tinged with the salve of love.

 

PURPORT

The SyAmasundara form of KRSNa is His inconceivable simultaneous personal and impersonal self-contradictory form. True devotees see that form in their purified hearts under the influence of devotional trance. The form SyAma is not the blue color visible in the mundane world but is the transcendental variegated color affording eternal bliss, and is not visible to the mortal eye. On a consideration of the trance of VyAsadeva as in the zloka, bhakti-yogena manasi etc., it will be clear that the form of SrI KRSNa is the full Personality of Godhead and can only be visible in the heart of a true devotee, which is the only true seat in the state of trance under the influence of devotion. When KRSNa manifested Himself in Vraja, both the devotees and nondevotees saw Him with this very eye; but only the devotees cherished Him, eternally present in Vraja, as the priceless jewel of their heart. Nowadays also the devotees see Him in Vraja in their hearts, saturated with devotion although they do not see Him with their eyes. The eye of devotion is nothing but the eye of the pure unalloyed spiritual self of the jIva. The form of KRSNa is visible to that eye in proportion to its purification by the practice of devotion. When the devotion of the neophyte reaches the stage of bhAva-bhakti the pure eye of that devotee is tinged with the salve of love by the grace of KRSNa, which enables him to see KRSNa face to face. The phrase "in their hearts" means KRSNa is visible in proportion as their hearts are purified by the practice of devotion. The sum and substance of this zloka is that the form of KRSNa, who is SyAmasundara, NaTavara (Best Dancer), MuralIdhara (Holder of the Flute) and TribhaGga (Triple-bending), is not a mental concoction but is transcendental, and is visible with the eye of the soul of the devotee under trance.</blockquote>

[gHari]

Sri Isopanisad Verse 16 with commentary by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada:<blockquote><center><font color="red">pUSann ekarSe yama sUrya prAjApatya

vyUha razmIn samUha

tejo yat te rUpaM kalyANa-tamaM

tat te pazyAmi yo 'sAv asau puruSaH so 'ham asmi

</center>

pUSan--O maintainer; eka-RSe--the primeval philosopher; yama--the regulating principle; sUrya--the destination of the sUris (great devotees); prAjApatya--the well-wisher of the prajApatis (progenitors of mankind); vyUha--kindly remove; razmIn--the rays; samUha--kindly withdraw; tejaH--effulgence; yat--so that; te--Your; rUpam--form; kalyANa-tamam--most auspicious; tat--that; te--Your; pazyAmi--I may see; yaH--one who is; asau--like the sun; asau--that; puruSaH--Personality of Godhead; saH--myself; aham--I; asmi--am.

</font>

O my Lord, O primeval philosopher, maintainer of the universe, O regulating principle, destination of the pure devotees, well-wisher of the progenitors of mankind, please remove the effulgence of Your transcendental rays so that I can see Your form of bliss. You are the eternal Supreme Personality of Godhead, like unto the sun, as am I.

 

PURPORT

The sun and its rays are one and the same qualitatively. Similarly, the Lord and the living entities are one and the same in quality. The sun is one, but the molecules of the sun's rays are innumerable. The sun's rays constitute part of the sun, and the sun and its rays conjointly constitute the complete sun. Within the sun itself resides the sun-god, and similarly within the supreme spiritual planet, Goloka VRndAvana, from which the brahmajyoti effulgence is emanating, the Lord enjoys His eternal pastimes, as verified in the Brahma-saMhitA (5.29):

<center><font color="red">

cintAmaNi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vRkSa-

lakSAvRteSu surabhIr abhipAlayantam

lakSmI-sahasra-zata-sambhrama-sevyamAnaM

govindam Adi-puruSaM tam ahaM bhajAmi

</center></font color>

"I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, the first progenitor, who is tending the cows fulfilling all desires in abodes filled with spiritual gems and surrounded by millions of wish-fulfilling trees. He is always served with great reverence and affection by hundreds of thousands of LakSmIs, or goddesses of fortune."

 

The brahmajyoti is described in the Brahma-saMhitA as the rays emanating from that supreme spiritual planet, Goloka VRndAvana, just as the sun's rays emanate from the sun globe. Until one surpasses the glare of the brahmajyoti, one cannot receive information of the land of the Lord. The impersonalist philosophers, blinded as they are by the dazzling brahmajyoti, can realize neither the factual abode of the Lord nor His transcendental form. Limited by their poor fund of knowledge, such impersonalist thinkers cannot understand the all-blissful transcendental form of Lord KRSNa. In this prayer, therefore, SrI IzopaniSad petitions the Lord to remove the effulgent rays of the brahmajyoti so that the pure devotee can see His all-blissful transcendental form.

 

By realizing the impersonal brahmajyoti, one experiences the auspicious aspect of the Supreme, and by realizing the ParamAtmA, or all-pervading feature of the Supreme, one experiences an even more auspicious enlightenment. But by meeting the Personality of Godhead Himself face to face, the devotee experiences the most auspicious feature of the Supreme. Since He is addressed as the primeval philosopher and maintainer and well-wisher of the universe, the Supreme Truth cannot be impersonal. This is the verdict of SrI IzopaniSad. The word pUSan ("maintainer") is especially significant, for although the Lord maintains all beings, He specifically maintains His devotees. After surpassing the impersonal brahmajyoti and seeing the personal aspect of the Lord and His most auspicious eternal form, the devotee realizes the Absolute Truth in full.

 

In his Bhagavat-sandarbha, SrIla JIva GosvAmI states: "The complete conception of the Absolute Truth is realized in the Personality of Godhead because He is almighty and possesses full transcendental potencies. The full potency of the Absolute Truth is not realized in the brahmajyoti; therefore Brahman realization is only partial realization of the Personality of Godhead. O learned sages, the first syllable of the word bhagavAn (bha) has two meanings: the first is ‘one who fully maintains,' and the second is ‘guardian.' The second syllable (ga) means ‘guide,' ‘leader' or ‘creator.' The syllable vAn indicates that every being lives in Him and that He also lives in every being. In other words, the transcendental sound bhagavAn represents infinite knowledge, potency, energy, opulence, strength and influence--all without a tinge of material inebriety."

 

The Lord fully maintains His unalloyed devotees, and He guides them progressively on the path toward devotional perfection. As the leader of His devotees, He ultimately awards the desired results of devotional service by giving Himself to them. The devotees of the Lord see the Lord eye to eye by His causeless mercy; thus the Lord helps His devotees reach the supermost spiritual planet, Goloka VRndAvana. Being the creator, He can bestow all necessary qualifications upon His devotees so that they can ultimately reach Him. The Lord is the cause of all causes. In other words, since there is nothing that caused Him, He is the original cause. Consequently He enjoys His own Self by manifesting His own internal potency. The external potency is not exactly manifested by Him, for He expands Himself as the puruSas, and it is in these forms that He maintains the features of the material manifestation. By such expansions, He creates, maintains and annihilates the cosmic manifestation.

 

The living entities are also differentiated expansions of the Lord's Self, and because some of them desire to be lords and imitate the Supreme Lord, He allows them to enter into the cosmic creation with the option to fully utilize their propensity to lord it over nature. Because of the presence of His parts and parcels, the living entities, the entire phenomenal world is stirred into action and reaction. Thus the living entities are given full facilities to lord it over material nature, but the ultimate controller is the Lord Himself in His plenary feature as ParamAtmA, the Supersoul, who is one of the puruSas.

 

Thus there is a gulf of difference between the living entity (AtmA) and the controlling Lord (ParamAtmA), the soul and the Supersoul. ParamAtmA is the controller, and the AtmA is the controlled; therefore they are in different categories. Because the ParamAtmA fully cooperates with the AtmA, He is known as the constant companion of the living being.

 

The all-pervading feature of the Lord--which exists in all circumstances of waking and sleeping as well as in potential states and from which the jIva-zakti (living force) is generated as both conditioned and liberated souls--is known as Brahman. Since the Lord is the origin of both ParamAtmA and Brahman, He is the origin of all living entities and all else that exists. One who knows this engages himself at once in the devotional service of the Lord. Such a pure and fully cognizant devotee of the Lord is fully attached to Him in heart and soul, and whenever such a devotee assembles with similar devotees, they have no engagement but the glorification of the Lord's transcendental activities. Those who are not as perfect as the pure devotees--namely, those who have realized only the Brahman or ParamAtmA features of the Lord--cannot appreciate the activities of the perfect devotees. The Lord always helps the pure devotees by imparting necessary knowledge within their hearts, and thus out of His special favor He dissipates all the darkness of ignorance. The speculative philosophers and yogIs cannot imagine this, because they more or less depend on their own strength. As stated in the KaTha UpaniSad (1.2.23), the Lord can be known only by those whom He favors, and not by anyone else. Such special favors are bestowed upon His pure devotees only. SrI IzopaniSad thus points to the favor of the Lord, which is beyond the purview of the brahmajyoti.</blockquote>

[moorthi]

bhagavadgita kinchid adheetha

gangajala lava kanika piita

 

[livingentity]

thanks.

 

I remember reading in SB the sweetest description of baby Krsna - I will try to find it or perhaps you might be able to find it also. The description spoke of Mother Yasoda decorating His body with jewels and placing the peacock feather in His crown. Also it is mentioned the sweet tinkling of His ankle bells.

 

Such a wonderfully sweet pastime of Mother Yasoda to be able to serve Lord Krsna so intimately!!

[theist]

Shanek,

 

You should not feel pressured in anyway to "just believe brother."

 

In one purport in the Gita Prabhupada himself says "blind following is condemned".

 

The thing is we have been blindly following the dictates of the mind for so many many births. Where has it gotten us?

 

As knowledge of the self and Supreme Self begin to enter the material mind will object in so many ways. Diubts and questions will naturally arise. Arjuna expressed doubts to Krsna.

 

Don't let the natural doubts block you from the joy of Krsna conscious practice. And always question until you are satisfied.

 

I keep a very large menatl file for those things I can't understand or seem to make no sense. I neither believe them or dis-believe I just file them and then try to find something I can comprehend.

 

The knowlege in these books is astounding.

 

Keep chanting and keep it fun.

 

Hare Krsna