An open challange for Abdullah

[Guest guest]

Dear fellow soul abdullah,

 

U read please....Here is the challange.

Here is the link....

 

http://www.iskcon.org/sastra/f_bg.html

 

The challange is, read it fully, understand it and then come back to this forum.. Or even ask questions from it here on the forum..

 

U know what, i predict you will not do read. Why ? beacuse u are not serious about God anyway.

I predict u are an Asura reborn just for creating chaos among the minds of the Saintly Suras. Sadly for u, this is the golden age of Sri Krishna Chaitanya and u will not succeed.

 

I pray to Sri Ugra Narasingha Deva to take very good care of u or inspire some of His devotees to take good care of u.

 

garjantaM gaarjayantaM nijabhujapatalaM sphoTayantaM hatantaM

ruupyantaM taapayantaM divi bhuvi ditijaM kshepayantam kshipantam.h .

 

krandantaM roshhayantaM dishi dishi satataM sa.nharantaM bharantaM

viikshantaM puurNayantaM karanikarashatairdivyasi.nhaM namaami .. 31 ..

 

## Lord Narasimha roars loudly and causes others to roar. With His mulitudes of arms He tears the demons asunder and kills them in this way. He is always seeking out and tormenting the demonic descendants of Diti, both on this earth planet and in the higher planets, and Hs throws them down and scatters them. He cries with great anger as He destroys the demons in all directions, yet with His unlimited hands He sustains, protects, and nourishes the cosmic manifestation. I offer my respectful obeisances to the Lord, who has assumed the form of a transcendental lion. ##

 

Again

I DARE YOU TO PROVE ME WORNG.

 

UR challanger in the service of the One Supreme Being

[Avinash]

I agree that Abdullah's aim was to belittle Hinduism and not to really clarify his doubts. But, I do not think that it would serve anybody if we continue the fight. Let the altercation be stopped immediately.

[stonehearted]

Abdullha let, as he promised. Move beyond this, okay?

[Guest guest]

to meet a Muslim that was/is tolerant or sympathetic to others belief systems.

 

What does this have to say about the "system"!?

[Guest guest]

a mirror to your question "What does this have to say about the "system"!? "

 

why see all this in terms of ""system(s)"" to beging with?

 

peace.

 

i quickly went over the link posted above and i don't see anything to challenge...

 

what is there to gain from such a thread?

 

as an example... from the link above:

 

"Lord Krishna is the Supreme Truth, the supreme cause and sustaining force of everything, both material and spiritual. Advanced souls surrender unto Him in devotion, whereas impious souls divert their minds to other objects of worship"

 

"Allah is the Supreme Truth, the supreme cause and sustaining force of everything, both material and spiritual. Advanced souls surrender unto Him in devotion, whereas impious souls divert their minds to other objects of worship"

 

what's the difference?

 

words are only the map...not the country...

 

peace be on you...

 

[Guest guest]

Avinash,

 

I agree that u have a very noble thought. But i guess i am over that " Let Go " stage.

 

Per the manu samhita one must fight, when his wife,daughter,house etc.. is attacked.

 

We let go afghanistan(kandhahar), we let go bengal(bangladesh), we let go Pakistan(Pbjab, Shind..,). No more can we afford to let go.

 

It is our duty to fight Abdullah, why? beacuse he is misleading people who have the potential to go back to godhead in this golden age...

 

Remember, when needed we must and will fight, the greatest wars ever in history were fought by vaishnavas with tilak, the ramayana and the mahabharata.

 

I will fight any rascal who will even try to mislead people(mayavadis, abdullah,, etc..) and i will also fight anyone who tries to cause harm to the lord and his devotees.

No more taxila, to more afghanistan, no more gauri.

 

Even mahaprabhu, the most merciful incarnation led a fight against chand kazi, read the chaitnaya charitamrita. They dared to harm devotees and the lord was red with anger.

 

See these photo and judge what would you do if this happend to anyone you know and yet this is the truth...

(See the last photo it is of a hindu from bagladesh being ruthlessly killed)

 

http://www.faithfreedom.org/gallery.htm

 

No more can we let this happen...

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

A Hindu being beaten by Muslims in a mosque in Bangladesh. He was captured outside the mosque while going home. After Friday prayers were over, the Muslims came out and grabbed the first Hindu they could. Mr. Vimal Patak a Bangladeshi born Hindu was beaten to death with sticks as the Muslim mullas (priests) chanted "kill the Kafir!" (non-muslim). With folded hands he begged for his life and died a brutal death. It clearly show the cruelty of Islam. "

 

 

http://www.faithfreedom.org/gallery.htm

[Guest guest]

do you really deep down believe that fighting more and more will stop the fighting?....

 

...

 

The origin of anger may be very complicated. still one thing remains... the cycle of anger must be stopped somewhere... these feelings will never leave on their own... they will age with you from one life to the next... anger is the worst of the inner enemies because of its unending connection to the chain of desires... whenever there is dissatisfaction there is anger.

 

may peace be on you

 

[Guest guest]

"It clearly show the cruelty of Islam. "

 

----------

 

it only shows the cruelty of a certain human being hiding under the vail of islam , hindu, christian, jew... etc. etc.

 

the divisions are created by the mind... let go... and live in peace...

 

 

[Guest guest]

I agree material anger is a bad thing...

 

However it can be used in the service of the lord.

 

Examples

1. Hanuman burns the whole of lanka

2. Arjuna fights the battle of kurushetra

 

Infact everthing can be used in krishna's service

 

[Guest guest]

"It clearly show the cruelty of Islam. "

 

That website is anti islam, i agree it should be "It clearly show the cruelty of many people of islamic faith. "

 

remember though it is the same people that made 30% of pak hindus reduced to 2% now, same with bangladesh.

 

and yes also they caused sep 11 ...

 

And it may even happen to someone close to you..

[stonehearted]

Guest: Even mahaprabhu, the most merciful incarnation led a fight against chand kazi, read the chaitnaya charitamrita. They dared to harm devotees and the lord was red with anger.

 

If you actually read Chaitanya-charitamrita, you'll find that Mahaprabhu led a nonviolent protest in the form of nagar-sankirtan because the kazi and his men stopped devotees from chanting in kirtan.

 

Get it straight or get out.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Prabhuji,

 

Why don't you read and post here what mahaprabhu said(or rather roared with anger and said) when he heard of what chand kazi had done(from the chritamrita).. Then you will see what i mean. Also read the chakra incident when Nityananda pRabhu was hurt by jagai and madhai.(It does mention the Lord being red with anger)

 

Yes i fully agree, it did became nonviolent as a movement as the kazi was alerady visited by Lord Narahari and with his nails he had given mercy on the chest of the kazi.

 

The kazi was so very scared by then ,but what Mahaprabhu would have done if the kazi would have shown even one bit of display of force or harm to the devotees.

 

I hope i am making my point clear. Do read and post the same.

 

Lastly, i am sorry if i offended you by this post.

[yasodanandana]

do not speculate on Kazi.. he's a saint, a pure associate of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.. we offer him our prostrated obeisances

 

the true opposition to Sri Chaitanya was from Hinduists

[Guest guest]

Yashodanandana prabhu

 

I will not oppose what you are telling me as you are a devotee.

 

If you feel i am speculating i must be speculating.

 

Please pray for me as devotees like you are so very dear to Krishna..

[Guest guest]

Stonehearted prabhuji,

 

To you also, i offer my obeciences, please pray for me..

 

You are all krishna's people , who am i to even say anything against you...

 

I do get angry though and do feel that anger againts offenders is justified,

 

Maybe some day by your mercy and prayers Krishna will take away that conditioning too..

[stonehearted]

In Chaitanya-charitamrita, the Lord said He would kill all the meat-eaters. Accordign to Krishna das, the crowd got a little rowdy, but the Lord was perfectly polite when He confronted the Kazi and subdued him with argument (with a little help from Lord Nrisinghadeva). In Chaitanya-Bhagavat he was so angry He threatened to rip the Kazi's house down and kill the Kazi and annihilate the Muslims. However, He was pacified by the devotees, especially Nityananda, and exhorted everyone to chant.

 

What's significant here is the profundity of the offense of interfereing with sankirtan and the nature of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's mission: to save everyone by preaching sankirtan and elevate the fortunate by preaching Vraja-bhakti. Although the Lord was indeed furious in this instance and when Nityananda was attacked by Jagai and Madhai, He was easily pacified when remeinded of the nature of His incarnation.

 

What gets me hot under the neck beads (I mostly wear t-shirts when I'm not teaching) is Hindus trying to get Mahaprabhu's devotees to join you in their sectarian hatred of Muslims. Yes, we understand it. But this is after all Kali-yuga. The real religion, the real revolution, the real battle for this age is establishing Harinama-sankirana as the universal religion. Someone somewhere else told of one of my Godbrothers, B. B. Govinda Maharaja, engaging Kazakh Muslims in chanting at wedding parties. There's your revolution.

 

And I'm not qualified to accept anyone's obeisances. However, if I were, I couldn't do it anonymously. If any real offense were committed, it's a matter between two persons. So if you're really interested in any forgiveness (a personal matter) you'd have to come out from your cloak of anonymity. My name is not stonehearted but Babhru das. stonehearted is a username I assumed when I began participating in online discussions. I'm not sure it was a good idea, but there you go. If you want to address me personally please call me Babhru and use your own name.

 

Also, I apologize for the sharp tone of the last line of that post I made. I think I was actually reacting to past posts, and it was unnecessary.

[gHari]

Back by popular request, live from the Sri Caitanya-caritamrita Adi-Lila 17, the authorized biography of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu:<blockquote>Hearing the resounding vibration of the Hare KRSNa mantra, the local Muslims, greatly angry, submitted a complaint to the Kazi.

 

Chand Kazi angrily came to one home in the evening, and when he saw kIrtana going on, he broke a mRdaGga and spoke as follows.

 

"For so long you did not follow the regulative principles of the Hindu religion, but now you are following them with great enthusiasm. May I know by whose strength you are doing so?

 

"No one should perform saGkIrtana on the streets of the city. Today I am excusing the offense and returning home.

 

In the evening Lord Gaurasundara went out and formed three parties to perform kIrtana.

 

In the front party danced ThAkura HaridAsa, and in the middle party danced Advaita AcArya with great jubilation.

 

Lord Gaurasundara Himself danced in the rear party, and SrI NityAnanda Prabhu moved with Lord Caitanya's dancing.

 

By the grace of the Lord, SrIla VRndAvana dAsa ThAkura has elaborately described this incident in his Caitanya-maGgala [now Caitanya-bhAgavata].

 

Performing kIrtana in this way, circumambulating through every nook and corner of the city, they finally reached the door of the Kazi.

 

Murmuring in anger and making a roaring sound, the people, under the protection of Lord Caitanya, became mad through such indulgence.

 

The loud sound of the chanting of the Hare KRSNa mantra certainly made the Kazi very much afraid, and he hid himself within his room. Hearing the people thus protesting, murmuring in great anger, the Kazi would not come out of his home.

 

Naturally some of the people who were very much agitated began to retaliate the Kazi's actions by wrecking his house and flower garden. SrIla VRndAvana dAsa ThAkura has elaborately described this incident.

 

Thereafter, when SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu reached the Kazi's house, He sat down by the doorway and sent some respectable persons to call for the Kazi.

 

When the Kazi came, his head bowed down, the Lord gave him proper respect and a seat.

 

In a friendly way, the Lord said, "Sir, I have come to your house as your guest, but upon seeing Me you hid yourself in your room. What kind of etiquette is this?"

 

The Kazi replied, "You have come to my house in a very angry mood. To pacify You, I did not come before You immediately but kept myself hidden.

 

"Now that You have become pacified, I have come to You. It is my good fortune to receive a guest like Your Honor.

 

"In our village relationship, NIlAmbara CakravartI ThAkura was my uncle. Such a relationship is stronger than a bodily relationship.

 

"NIlAmbara CakravartI is Your maternal grandfather, and by this relationship You are thus my nephew.

 

"When a nephew is very angry, his maternal uncle is tolerant, and when the maternal uncle commits an offense, the nephew does not take it very seriously."

 

In this way the Kazi and the Lord talked with each other with various indications, but no outsider could understand the inner meaning of their conversation.

 

The Lord said, "My dear uncle, I have come to your home just to ask you some questions."

"Yes," the Kazi replied, "You are welcome. Just tell me what is in Your mind."

 

The Lord said, "You drink cows' milk; therefore the cow is your mother. And the bull produces grains for your maintenance; therefore he is your father.

 

"Since the bull and cow are your father and mother, how can you kill and eat them? What kind of religious principle is this? On what strength are you so daring that you commit such sinful activities?"

 

The Kazi replied, "As You have Your scriptures called the Vedas and PurANas, we have our scripture, known as the holy Koran.

 

"According to the Koran, there are two ways of advancement--through increasing the propensity to enjoy, and through decreasing the propensity to enjoy. On the path of decreasing attachment [nivRtti-mArga], the killing of animals is prohibited.

 

"On the path of material activities, there is regulation for killing cows. If such killing is done under the guidance of scripture, there is no sin."

 

As a learned scholar, the Kazi challenged Caitanya MahAprabhu, "In Your Vedic scriptures there is an injunction for killing a cow. On the strength of this injunction, great sages performed sacrifices involving cow-killing."

 

Refuting the Kazi's statement, the Lord immediately replied, "The Vedas clearly enjoin that cows should not be killed. Therefore every Hindu, whoever he may be, avoids indulging in cow-killing.

 

"In the Vedas and PurANas there are injunctions declaring that if one can revive a living being, one can kill it for experimental purposes.

 

"Therefore the great sages sometimes killed old cows, and by chanting Vedic hymns they brought them back to life for perfection.

 

"The killing and rejuvenation of such old and invalid cows was not truly killing but an act of great benefit.

 

"Formerly there were powerful brAhmaNas who could make such experiments using Vedic hymns, but now, because of the Kali-yuga, brAhmaNas are not so powerful. Therefore the killing of cows and bulls for rejuvenation is forbidden.

 

"‘In this Age of Kali, five acts are forbidden: the offering of a horse in sacrifice, the offering of a cow in sacrifice, the acceptance of the order of sannyAsa, the offering of oblations of flesh to the forefathers, and a man's begetting children in his brother's wife.'

 

"Since you Muslims cannot bring killed cows back to life, you are responsible for killing them. Therefore you are going to hell; there is no way for your deliverance.

 

"Cow-killers are condemned to rot in hellish life for as many thousands of years as there are hairs on the body of the cow.

 

"There are many mistakes and illusions in your scriptures. Their compilers, not knowing the essence of knowledge, gave orders that were against reason and argument."

 

After hearing these statements by SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu, the Kazi, his arguments stunned, could not put forward any more words. Thus, after due consideration, the Kazi accepted defeat and spoke as follows.

 

"My dear NimAi PaNDita, what You have said is all true. Our scriptures have developed only recently, and they are certainly not logical and philosophical.

 

"I know that our scriptures are full of imagination and mistaken ideas, yet because I am a Muslim I accept them for the sake of my community, despite their insufficient support.

 

"The reasoning and arguments in the scriptures of the meat-eaters are not very sound," the Kazi concluded. Upon hearing this statement, SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu smiled and inquired from him as follows.

 

"My dear maternal uncle, I wish to ask you another question. Please tell Me the truth. Do not try to cheat Me with tricks.

 

"In your city there is always congregational chanting of the holy name. A tumultuous uproar of music, singing and dancing is always going on.

 

"As a Muslim magistrate, you have the right to oppose the performance of Hindu ceremonies, but now you do not forbid them. I cannot understand the reason why."

 

The Kazi said, "Everyone calls You Gaurahari. Please let me address You by that name.

 

"Kindly listen, O Gaurahari! If You come to a private place, I shall then explain the reason."

 

The Lord replied, "All these men are My confidential associates. You may speak frankly. There is no reason to be afraid of them."

 

The Kazi said, "When I went to the Hindu's house, broke the drum and forbade the performance of congregational chanting, in my dreams that very night I saw a greatly fearful lion, roaring very loudly, His body like a human being's and His face like a lion's.

 

"While I was asleep, the lion jumped on my chest, laughing fiercely and gnashing His teeth.

 

"Placing its nails on my chest, the lion said in a grave voice, ‘I shall immediately bifurcate your chest as you broke the mRdaGga drum!

 

"‘You have forbidden the performance of My congregational chanting. Therefore I must destroy you!' Being very much afraid of Him, I closed my eyes and trembled.

 

"Seeing me so afraid, the lion said, ‘I have defeated you just to teach you a lesson, but I must be merciful to you.

 

"‘On that day you did not create a very great disturbance. Therefore I have excused you and not taken your life.

 

"‘But if you perform such activities again, I shall not be tolerant. At that time I shall kill you, your entire family and all the meat-eaters.'

 

"After saying this, the lion left, but I was very much afraid of Him. Just see the marks of His nails on my heart!"

 

After this description, the Kazi showed his chest. Having heard him and seen the marks, all the people there accepted the wonderful incident.

 

The Kazi continued, "I did not speak to anyone about this incident, but on that very day one of my orderlies came to see me.

 

"After coming to me, the orderly said, ‘When I went to stop the congregational chanting, suddenly flames struck my face.

 

"‘My beard was burned, and there were blisters on my cheeks.' Every orderly who went gave the same description.

 

"After seeing this, I was very much afraid. I asked them not to stop the congregational chanting but to go sit down at home.

 

"Then all the meat-eaters, hearing that there would be unrestricted congregational chanting in the city, came to submit a petition.

 

"‘The religion of the Hindus has increased unlimitedly. There are always vibrations of "Hari! Hari!" We do not hear anything but this.'

 

"One meat-eater said, ‘The Hindus say, "KRSNa, KRSNa," and they laugh, cry, dance, chant and fall on the ground, smearing their bodies with dirt.

 

"‘Vibrating "Hari, Hari," the Hindus make a tumultuous sound. If the king [pAtasAha] hears it, certainly he will punish you.'

 

"I then inquired from these yavanas, ‘I know that these Hindus by nature chant "Hari, Hari."

 

"‘The Hindus chant the name Hari because that is the name of their God. But you are Muslim meat-eaters. Why do you chant the name of the Hindus' God?'

 

"The meat-eater replied, ‘Sometimes I joke with the Hindus. Some of them are called KRSNadAsa, and some are called RAmadAsa.

 

"‘Some of them are called HaridAsa. They always chant "Hari, Hari," and thus I thought they would steal the riches from someone's house.

 

"‘Since that time, my tongue also always vibrates the sound "Hari, Hari." I have no desire to say it, but still my tongue says it. I do not know what to do.'

 

"Another meat-eater said, ‘Sir, please hear me. Since the day I joked with some Hindus in this way, my tongue chants the Hare KRSNa hymn and cannot give it up. I do not know what mystic hymns and herbal potions these Hindus know.'

 

"After hearing all this, I sent all the mlecchas back to their homes. Five or seven nonbelieving Hindus then approached me.

 

"Coming to me, the Hindus complained, ‘NimAi PaNDita has broken the Hindu religious principles. He has introduced the saGkIrtana system, which we never heard from any scripture.

 

"‘When we keep a night-long vigil to observe religious performances for the worship of MaGgalacaNDI and ViSahari, playing on musical instruments, dancing and chanting are certainly fitting customs.

 

"‘NimAi PaNDita was previously a very good boy, but since He has returned from GayA He conducts Himself differently.

 

"‘Now He loudly sings all kinds of songs, claps, and plays drums and hand cymbals, making a tumultuous sound that deafens our ears.

 

"‘We do not know what He eats that makes Him become mad, dancing, singing, sometimes laughing, crying, falling down, jumping up and rolling on the ground.

 

"‘He has made all the people practically mad by always performing congregational chanting. At night we cannot get any sleep; we are always kept awake.

 

"‘Now He has given up His own name NimAi and introduced Himself by the name Gaurahari. He has spoiled the Hindu religious principles and introduced the irreligion of nonbelievers.

 

"‘Now the lower classes are chanting the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra again and again. For this sinful activity, the entire city of NavadvIpa will become deserted.

 

"‘According to Hindu scripture, God's name is the most powerful hymn. If everyone hears the chanting of the name, the potency of the hymn will be lost.

 

"‘Sir, you are the ruler of this town. Whether Hindu or Muslim, everyone is under your protection. Therefore please call NimAi PaNDita and make Him leave the town.'

 

"After hearing their complaints, in sweet words I told them, ‘Please go back home. I shall certainly prohibit NimAi PaNDita from continuing His Hare KRSNa movement.'

 

"I know that NArAyaNa is the Supreme God of the Hindus, and I think that You are the same NArAyaNa. This I feel within my mind."

 

After hearing the Kazi speak so nicely, SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu touched him and smilingly spoke as follows.

 

"The chanting of the holy name of KRSNa from your mouth has performed a wonder--it has nullified the reactions of all your sinful activities. Now you have become supremely pure.

 

"Because you have chanted three holy names of the Lord--Hari, KRSNa and NArAyaNa--you are undoubtedly the most fortunate and pious."

 

After the Kazi heard this, tears flowed down from his eyes. He immediately touched the lotus feet of the Lord and spoke the following sweet words.

 

"Only by Your mercy have my bad intentions vanished. Kindly favor me so that my devotion may always be fixed upon You."

 

The Lord said, "I wish to beg you for one favor in charity. You must pledge that this saGkIrtana movement will not be checked, at least in the district of Nadia."

 

The Kazi said, "To as many descendants as take birth in my dynasty in the future, I give this grave admonition: No one should check the saGkIrtana movement."

 

Hearing this, the Lord got up, chanting "Hari! Hari!" Following Him, all the other VaiSNavas also got up, chanting the vibration of the holy name.

 

SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu went back to perform kIrtana, and the Kazi, his mind jubilant, went with Him.

 

The Lord asked the Kazi to go back home. Then the son of mother SacI came back to His own home, dancing and dancing.

 

This is the incident concerning the Kazi and the Lord's mercy upon him. Anyone who hears this is also freed from all offenses.

</blockquote>

Srila Vrindavana Dasa in his Sri Caitanya Bhagavata Madhya-khanda 23 gives an even more colourful account of that fateful evening.

 

gHari

[Guest guest]

These matters cannot be understood properly without a real sadhu to explain it to us. Everything must be corroborated by the living sadhu so that we do not misunderstand any of these important matters. Book knowledge is only an external acquaintance with the subject. You must be self-realized to actually appreciate the inner meanings of such elevated matters.

[theist]

for posting that gHari.

 

 

This is the incident concerning the Kazi and the Lord's mercy upon him. Anyone who hears this is also freed from all offenses.

 

 

I am in need of such mercy.

 

I just wish I was fortunate like the last guest to have a "living guru" in my back pocket to pull out as I read so I could really get the mercy.

 

 

OK I am getting cranky. I am just sick of this implied "Prabhupada is a dead guru" _rap.

[gHari]

for reading it, Theist. I have added another link at the bottom.

 

gHari

[Guest guest]

dear guest,

 

i thank you very much for your this post. keep up that spirit please, for the benefit of the suras.

 

you sound like bhakta don ji. are you? just wonder.

 

any way keep up against the asuras and adhrma.

 

jai sri krishna!

 

[gHari]

Madhav,

 

You will really enjoy reading that link to the Bhagavata a few articles back. Please excuse the typos and grammatical errors; I haven't reached that chapter yet in my editing.

 

That chapter Madhya 23 may well be the most powerful chapter in the whole biography. You will be proud of your Indian ancestors as they march on the Kazi. You should have been there. Maybe next time.

 

gHari