sinimat Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Hare bol! This post is directed toward devotees whose family members, namely spouses, are not following Krishna Consciousness. Recently, after my wife and I followed the hatha yoga path, I was introduced into Krishna Consciousness and chant daily and attend the local temple once a week. However, my wife does not really seem to have an interest in Krishna Consciousness. This really makes me sad because I know how happy she could be. We are planning on having a baby soon and I plan to raise the child in Krishna Consciousness. However, everything would be much smoother if we were both devotees. I don?t think that there is anything I can really do to help her become a devotee- only Krishna can entice her and she has to come to Krishna of her own free will. I was just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience and do you approach something like this? Whenever my wife expresses her sadness, it makes me frustrated because I know what can make her happy. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Hare Krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Hare Krishna Krishna is definately Testing You, this is a carried on from a previous posts in Krishna Talk. If it was me, I'd drag her to the temple by the legs, and make her listen to Kirtan, then lets see if she dosen't like Krishna. Ps maybe see if she can be attracted to Sri Sri Radha first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yasodanandana Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 do not be frustrated..... to find and keep a companion for the life is not easy for everyone for devotees also, in western countries we have a divorce rate like hollywood stars so please do not make anything fanatic relatives, sons, parents, wifes, husbands are very sensible to hypochrisy, because they know us and they sense that we are not now a buddha or an ascetic on the gange's river only because we spent two or three sundays at the temple ... so please you have to be constantly monitoring your state of consciousness to avoid any little bit of fanaticism.. now you are everyday under x-rays by everyone who knows you do not press.. your new life, externally, is mainly chant some rounds of japa and read some new books.. so there's not much to create conflicts be yourself, chant harekrishna, make friends with devotee couples (not fanatic!!) do not make a quarrel about the name of your new baby.... call him jim or john if she wants this (you will call confidentially govinda or janardhana in some years when all will be adjusted in your family by sri krsna) .. and.... in my opinion... ehem.... be tolerant (with her and with yourself) regarding the regulative principle N.3 especially do not make the hypocrisy to be a sannyasy under the sun and a porn actor in the night ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Hare bol! This post is directed toward devotees whose family members, namely spouses, are not following Krishna Consciousness. Recently, after my wife and I followed the hatha yoga path, I was introduced into Krishna Consciousness and chant daily and attend the local temple once a week. However, my wife does not really seem to have an interest in Krishna Consciousness. This really makes me sad because I know how happy she could be. We are planning on having a baby soon and I plan to raise the child in Krishna Consciousness. However, everything would be much smoother if we were both devotees. I don?t think that there is anything I can really do to help her become a devotee- only Krishna can entice her and she has to come to Krishna of her own free will. I was just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience and do you approach something like this? Whenever my wife expresses her sadness, it makes me frustrated because I know what can make her happy. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Hare Krishna! Women are very social (much more so than men) and are very influenced by their interactions with other women. If your wife becomes friendly with devotee women, those devotees will have a great influence on her. So my humble advice is to get together with other devotee householders as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Force just breeds resentment. Besides what is wrong with some hatha-yoga? I took some classes some 25 years ago and then didn't keep up with them. If I had my health would be in much better shape today. Hatha-yog to reach God realization may be impractical in this age but for the health of the body and mind many say it can't be beat. Just add Krsna's name when you can and maybe have a soft bhajana playing as you strech and do your pranayam. Even if your wife does state her attraction to Krsna outwardly to you, by your sincere practice she will become attracted in her own way. Patience with her and your own honest example can work wonders. I believe it is Audarya-lila whose wife is a practicing Catholic and they seem to have worked this out nicely from reading his posts. Hopefully he will add to this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Hare Krishna Quote By Me: If it was me, I'd drag her to the temple by the legs, and make her listen to Kirtan, then lets see if she dosen't like Krishna. I was only joking /images/graemlins/grin.gif Your advice is sound Theist. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 I knew you were joking. I don't picture you as the 'caveman with a club draggin' some semi-conscious woman around the cave type' Govindaram. Although seriously I have seen similar versions in real life. Some devotees fall to this by trying to imitate some mythologized image of what they think a strong vedic man would be like as a householder. Though not a householder myself I think this is a very important topic. We can often fail to remember that there is a real feeling living soul there, playing the role of my wife. We have to learn how to play out our assigned roles as males, while respecting that we have entered into a relationship with someone and not just hired a maid. Easy for me to say as a bachlor, I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 LOL...funny picture! But seriously, I would be very interested in hearing how families of mixed faiths do deal with this. I would like to hear from Audarya Lila dasa for one if he is inclined to tell us about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Hare Krishna Quote by Theist: We can often fail to remember that there is a real feeling living soul there I had a problem with my Mum, accepting the Hare-Krishna Maha-Mantra, so I made a copy of The Morning Programme CD (it has everything SP chanting, Guru Vandana, etc), since she has started listening to it, she is offering more flowers to Krishna (also SP and Lord Chaitanya! and the prasadam she cooks for Krishna tastes EVEN better!. I have made copies of The Morning Programme for her friends as well, thinking if her friends become attracted to Hare-Krishna, then they can spread the word as well by Sri Radha's grace. I hope this is not a Copyright infringement /images/graemlins/frown.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priitaa Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Do not drag anyone anywhere. Force almost always works in exactly the opposite direction we wish the person to go into. I have seen this problem before, and while what I am about to tell you does not always work, it very often works. First, she is all ready into yoga. You are half way there! /images/graemlins/smile.gif So don't worry too much. Secondly, is she vegetarian? If she is, you are even further down the raod. Less to worry about. Now, if you avoid fanaticism (as I think the previous poster mentioned) and just 'show' her the results of practicing Bhakti Yoga, often the spouse says "Hey, "I'm missing out. I want those nice qualities too!" Just leave the more mellow, little books about Krishna consciousness around the house. DONT ask her if she read them. At first she will know thats why you are doing it. But in time it will be obvious that this is part of your life, and part of who you are. Sooner or later she will read them all on her own. When we come to realizaiton on our own, it sticks! So just make things available to her, surround her with them, but never shove anything down her throat. Sometimes the best preaching is what 'appears' to be no preaching. It actually is preaching, but it starts with us having to control our senses, increase tolerance, not fall down, and 'wait' while they gradually become opened to Krisna consciousness. If she is not irritated by your chanting, then its ok to chant around her and even beneficial. But if it makes her annoyed, or if she silently increases her stance, then dont chant around her. Also, find out 'why' she is not so interested in Krishna consciousness, because we here on these message boards can answer almost any question she has! /images/graemlins/smile.gif Since she is more into yoga, and this is just a suggestion, but you may try calling Krishna conscoiusness Bhakti yoga, because it is! She may feel more comfortable with those words. You just become the good example, humanly of course, and in time she is going to want the learn how to develop the qualities you have. When she asks, "How were you able to respond so mellow over yada yada when I just about wanted to blow up in their face?" Ahhhh There is your opportunity! BUT only if she is open to it. This is always they key, always. Stop the minute she appears to shut down. There will always be another day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Yeah, LE, I got that a chuckle out of picturing him like that too. Govindaram that morning program idea is a good one. Don't worry if it is copywrited or not. Someone will soon put it out offically if they haven't already. I can't stand the sound of my own voice trying to sing so this would help me also. Prabhupada chanting japa keeps me going on my beads as I still don't have a strong determination myself. It is perfect preaching for us. Afterall preaching is basically just helping bring Krsna into the sense perception of others in a way that is as attractive as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 is great. I listen to it everyday along with several other favorites. Bhajans etc are a great way to get the attention of non-devotee family members. If you play them enough they will catch themselves with the tunes going through their heads all day and will end up singing them at some point. I have discovered that the prayers to Lord Narasimha always catch their attention - nice catchy energetic tunes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinimat Posted August 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Hare Krishna! Thank you all very much for your input. Your words make much sense as to how to approach this subject. Yes, my wife is into hatha yoga and is a vegetarian as well. However, I'm not sure if I'm going to sign up for our next 3 months of hatha yoga. I'm afraid that if I don't, see won't either. So, maybe I'll sign up and practice with her. Any more thoughts? Hare Krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Hare Krishna These Prayers rock, on Full Volume the bass is immaculate. These are the first prayers I managed to memorise easily. Love them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yasodanandana Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 viewing the suggestion of all the devotees i also want to stress on association if you can make friends with other not fanatic devotee couple or singles and to spend together holidays, dinners, walks, maybe cinema, concert, a pizza outside... that will be very good and another thing i find that "not devotee" people is often very intelligent and selective, if you can bring your wife at the temple when there is a very important devotee, a guru, a sannyasi... or you can invite a devotee like that in your house, this could be a very effective thing i do not think to be a fanatic, and i am also, for an average materialist like me, quite sincere..... i have preached to some people for years, with big scriptural research, undisputable logic etc. receiving only laughs in exchange... but i have seen them accepting immediately the message of chaitanya mahaprabhu and eventually also initiation in a few years, simply when an authoritative devotee said to them "now you get your japa mala and you start to chant hare krishna" many people are more at ease with the boss.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 Well, after almost thirty years, my ex-wife is showing signs of her karma easing up. We split before the official beginning of my spiritual ride, but I think I will be chanting for her on her deathbed, if not before. You are more foruntate because your wife-disciple is in your constant association. Krsna will manage things for you. As you advance so will she; if you do not alienate her you can help her tremendously. Krsna has put you two together for a reason. Be gentle. Even if it takes years for her to become intrigued, you should not let it interfere with your relationship. Don't make her feel she has lost her husband to drugs or to a cult. You can be conscious of Krsna without the funny haircut and clothes. You are her guru, and you should be ready to go to hell for her. Hopefully you are both vegetarians already. That could be a great source of contention. Be gentle. You can always get a Krsna cook book and do the cooking. She will see how wonderful the food is. But like someone else has mentioned, don't force her. Then there's always the free love feast every Sunday - no dishes, no cooking! Here is <a href=http://home.primus.ca/~caitanya/NrsimhaByKrsnaPremaDas.mp3>some very hip music (7 MEGs)</a> you can both enjoy in MP3 format. It will purify her heart so she can gradually become attracted to Sri Krsna. The music is so cool, even non-devotional folks love it. Don't be lost to her. That is not Krsna's desire. You made some vows to Him when you were married. Be the best damn husband you can be; find out all about love so you can be a compassionate preacher when you are ready. Lord Caitanya said to start from wherever you are (businessman, husband, wife, polo player), and gradually become conscious of Krsna. It's all ready for you, just sprinkle on a little Krsna. gHari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 Sinimat, Just heard you are veggies. Big step. I would say definitely both sign up for hatha yoga. You can even ask the instructor as a couple about other yogas. Don't let your ego get you into talking on about bhakti-yoga. Coming from another outside source will be good for her. Consider how you would want her to treat you had it been she who discovered bhakti-yoga first. She still has a few dreams and desires to fulfill, but after you have done that she may well become even more devoted than you to Sri Krsna Caitanya. The disciple surpasses the guru; wouldn't that be wonderful! Just let the changes come naturally. I have a good feeling about the two of you. Good luck, Sinimat. Be as gentle as Lord Caitanya, Himself. gHari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priitaa Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 The minute you make wife the disciple, the relationship is in big trouble. All I can say is I know the women best since I am one, and husbands are on an equal level. That's as far as I want to go into this. (I only mention it because we are giving advice to a new devotee of the householder ashrama and I dont believe we should suggest things which we have repeatedly found out did not work for us. Otherwise I wouldn't have said anything. What others do in their homes, is their business and I really am not concerned over.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 "The minute you make wife the disciple, the relationship is in big trouble" no.. why... it depends on charachter and the behaviour of the couple of course one has to be a good master, not an hypochrite to be husband and wife is a service (=love) relation, one will be most prominent on cooking, one on painting walls and putting nails, one in the basic of krsna consciousness, one in dealing with people, one in having care of the money and the economy so the master / disciple role is costantly exchanging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 Priitaa Devi Dasi, You are likely in a better position to know this. Then until the wife is on the path he can be the guru that shows the path. gHari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 BY PRTHA DEVI DASI Why so much focus is regularly being placed on the role of the wife is strange and often another form of maya. It has been gong on in this movement almost since the beginning of ISKCON and yet we more often see men who have avoided the *full* responsibilities of their role and not so much the women at all. Still, some find a way, even through other women, to keep the focus off them and on the ladies. This religious guilt and shame placed on the females of this movement only makes our devotee society sick. It does not make anyone behave correctly though it is an escape for misbehavior by some men. -- “Certainly woman needs protection but let us not confuse protection with control. ” -- Women have been the backbone, the strength of this movement and as much as some men don't like women to be around unless they can enjoy them/get women to serve them in one form or another, without the ladies to offer a balance there would not be much of a movement or a weak one as best. We must stop making this a *man's* movement and make it correctly accessible and attractive too all, including the more intelligent class of women (doctors, lawyers, etc.) who will not join something that reduces their all ready obvious intelligence level. This is a preaching movement and everyone is invited to join. Not that women join to serve man, but to serve God. Certainly woman needs protection but let us not confuse protection with control. They are two different words with two different meanings and it seems some devotees don't want to understand that. I suggest they use the dictionary. And let us not forget that the simple brahmacari, men, also needs protection! Next, let's not minimize or underestimate the protection Prabhupada has given women. Not only via brahmacarini ashrams but also by just taking shelter of his lotus feet. Women who are devotees are NOT prone to the weakness of the mundane woman, usually proclaimed by some men as exceptional lust. For that matter we see much molestation has gone on in this movement by men - of children and of their own wife's! While some have painstakingly taken the time to point out the bad qualities of womanhood they do so in such a way as to indicate men do not have similar shortcomings. Not true. "According to scriptural injunctions, one is forbidden to engage with any woman other than ones wife. All other women are to be considered as one's mother. But in spite of such injunctions, a man is still inclined to have sex relationships with other women. BG 3.34 "Those whose senses are very much uncontrolled especially try to hunt for many women." SB 4. 26. 4 Purport To continue, if one wants to follow Western society or Eastern society, there will always be much to discuss. Big topic. But how about one who wants to follow transcendence and do something above Eastern vs. Western? We came to this movement to practice yoga, bhakti yoga. Suddenly society and *roles* have become more important? It just more bodily concept, the very thing we were trying to leave behind when we renounced our karmi life styles. Let's not find an angle to do the same old thing, thus keeping us here birth after birth. "We don't discard that 'This American Society' or 'This European Society' 'This is Indian Society' ..... No, all human being. All human being. It doesn't matter what he is." SB 1974 Lecture "If, however, one is fortunate enough to transcend the designation of birth in a society or community by being elevated to the standard of spiritual identity, than he is sva-dharma, or duty, is solely that of serving the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The actual duty of one who is advanced in Krishna Consciousness is to serve the Lord. As long as one remains on the bodily concept of life, he may act according to the duties of social convention, but if one is elevated to the spiritual platform, he must simply serve the Supreme Lord, that is the *real* execution of sva-dharma." SB 3.28.2 Prabhupada came here to give us something higher than duties of social convention, roles and so on. Of course, sublime knowledge is there. One can take it or look for loopholes. Let's try to keep in mind that our real duty is to learn how to love and actively serve Krishna. "My dear Friend, if you desire to enjoy the company of material society, friendship and love, then please do not go to see this smiling boy Govinda, who is standing on the bank of the Yamuna and playing His flute, His lips brightened by the beams of the full moonlight." Krsna Book, The Rasa Dance - Introduction, Ch 29 We can find many examples in the shastra of the mundane duty of a wife to *please* her husband but what about the entanglement of married life? Let us not present this householder ashram as the all and all, which is what happens when husband worship is gong on. Let us also remember that most quotes to support the *role* of a woman to serve the husband are varna's and ashrams, again not transcendence. So yes, if one is not ready or willing to fully apply themselves in transcendental Krishna Consciousness cent per cent, by all means, follow those other quotes Prabhupada gives woman about her position. But for those who want to get out of the material world let us remember that Prabhupada says many things: "A woman, therefore, should consider her husband, her house and her children to be the arrangement of the external energy of the Lord for her *death,* just as the sweet singing of the hunter is death for the deer." [sB 3.31.42] "A man within the material world is just like a *dead body*. In fact, superficially, the living entity is covered by this body, which is nothing but a bag of skin decorated with a beard and mustache, hairs on the body, nails on the fingers, and hairs on the head. Within this decorated bag are bunches of muscles, bundles of bones, and pools of blood. always mixed with stool, urine, mucous, bile and polluted air and enjoyed by different kinds of insects and germs. A foolish woman accepts such a dead body as her husband and, in sheer misunderstanding, loves him as her dear companion. This is possible only because such a woman has never tasted the ever-blissful flavor of Your lotus feet." KB, Ch 59, Talks Between Krsna and Rukmini. Not to misunderstand. Certainly we want happy and responsible marriages in Krishna Consciousness but let's remember, it is a temporary ashram and women too are meant to get beyond it just as much as men, and ultimately serve ONLY Krishna. If one puts too much attention into the grhasta ashram it is the same as putting too little attention on it and leads to fall down. There are many ways to be married and anything that works for anyone is all that matters. If someone is in a happy, successful and Krishna Conscious in their marriage but do not fit into the eastern role, who dares to say they are in the wrong? And who dares to say they may not have come even further in their relationship, behaving toward each other in a transcendental manner, which some offensively or mistakenly mistranslated as a western relationship. We didn't come to this movement to learn how to be married. That information is available in many places. We came here to learn how to love God and think of Him all the time. 24/7. This information is not available in other places! A woman's interest is not so different from her husbands as long as they both want to serve Krishna. It is not that the man wants to own her, take away her intelligence, do her thinking and choice making for her, telling her what to do. For a husband to make decisions about the wife's spiritual advancement is to place himself on a pedestal as well as to take away her self esteem and her ability to know who she is, thus putting all this power in his hands. Any sane man will not want that, as sooner or later (years) it will backfire since such a man would be pretending to be more advanced than he really is. Therefore the karmic bill will catch up with him. He will be lucky if his marriage survives it, and if it does, that is not to promise they will remain a happy couple after he tried to take away her sense of self in the name of religiosity. Thus one of the causes for the high divorce rate in ISKCON - too many men lording it over the wife. Fact is, there is not a *pati-guru* (husband as guru) in this age. No human man is this wonderful. Such husbands who think they are so great will have to step down and let Prabhupada be guru of the women. He would not have initiated women if he thought husbands could do the job. After all, he is not effected by their gender whereas the husband is. It is not that women can't be more advanced than the men they marry and must do what they are told. That could cause her to go backwards spiritually. The brahmanas' wife's were superior to their husbands. Though women are not claiming to be on that platform the example is still there that women are not automatically inferior, especially in an agewhere men have comedown to the same level as women. "Kalau sudra sambhavah." In this age of kali everyone is sudra. So let us all take instruction from Prabhupada and not selectively. Not that which pleases the senses but instead that which gets us out of the material world. Some think they are automatic advanced devotee because they are brahmana. However, brahmana is merely one who is in the mode of goodness, not one who is transcendentally situated. So one can follow the role of a brahmana or try to get above that. "The highest qualification of a person in the *material* world is to be brahmana. But since a brahmana is in the mode of goodness, to be a brahmana is *not sufficient* for becoming a representative of the Lord. One has to transcend the mode of goodness also and be situated in unalloyed goodness, unaffected by any of the qualities of material nature."SB 3.4.31 "But if you be engaged in *devotional service,* then immediately you transcend all the qualities. You become *more than* brahmana -- Vaishnava. Vaishnava means he is transcendental to the brahminical qualities also." SP lecture, 1973 A woman's first desire who has sincerely surrendered to Srila Prabhupada and to Sri Sri Radha Krishna are to serve and please Them. Her first duty is to understand she is not a woman. As long as one thinks of themselves as a woman or as long as a husband too much thinks of his wife as woman, all will act on the bodily platform, desiring this mundane thing or that mundane thing, even sex indulgence. To hold the expectation that all women to act, for example, as Pishima did when the husband falls into big maya is to open the door for men to make excuses to deviate and turn around and blame the wife if she leaves when he makes that choice to deviate. (Convenient double standard.) This is not helping the husband but harming him. I am not suggesting she should leave over fickleness, but no one should think the wife should stay unconditionally. To be unconditional is Gods job. Ours it to protect our soul and get out of the material world. I am not speaking of small maya a husband may be in but when he goes over board he should not think he has every right to do whatever he wants yet she is not a *good* wife if she does not tolerate it. After all, no one is as advanced as Pishima, a pure devotee, and to try to be will only lead to fall down, for the husband too. Besides, all a man has to do to keep a wife is to behave in a truthfully and purely Krishna Conscious manner. Only men who want to do nonsense and get away with it preach about unfair and unrealistic expectations of women in such ways. However, what does Prabhupada say for women devotees in this age? "My Dear Caitanya Dasi, Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated April 23, 1973, and I have noted the contents. I am very much disturbed to hear of Kanupriya's activities, and I advise you that so long he is engaged in these nonsense activities, you should not have any association with him." SPL Los Angeles, 25 April, 1973 "My dear Kusha devi dasi, Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated Jan. 30, 1975 and have noted the contents. I have studied your situation carefully and I encourage you to live in the temple in the association of fixed up devotees who are following my teachings strictly. If your husband cannot follow our principles properly, you are not to think that you should let that hamper your spiritual life. You should stay with us and cultivate spiritual life peacefully under Krishna's protection and care. If he is not interested in spiritual life, let him do as he pleases. I have given all of my disciple instructions to follow for making spiritual advancement, but if they do not have the desire to follow, then what can I do? Anyone who is unwilling to follow our regulated principles, you should not live or associate closely with such a person." SPL 3 February, 1975 Honolulu Prabhupada never took *freedom* away from women any more than he took it away from his male disciples as the word *disciple* means discipline. A man who has let his senses go wild, starting with the mind, has too much freedom and ends up acting on it. Srila Prabhupada had many women go out onto the streets and talk to men, distribute books, drive cars to get there and so on. It seems he trusted them to do this and did not consider such freedoms something devotee women could not handle. Yet the self-discipline of some men (and not all) in this movement is sorely lacking. Prabhupada spoke often of the importance of book distribution and Sankirtan in general. Let us not play that down or ignore it to sweep it under the carpet and replace it with the role of woman in marriage. "So we want accommodations for at least forty men and *women* which will constitute the Sankirtana Party." SPL to Sriman Radharama Sharanji 70-6-25 "Jaudarani has now become a nice *preacher,* I have report from Satsvarupa that she *gives lectures* very nicely. If we open a pavilion, I shall take Jaudarani also at that time so she will deliver nice lectures." SPL Mahapurusa, 1968 "I am especially pleased to learn that you are introducing my books as textbooks in the colleges. We especially have to try to attract the *educated* young men *and women* in your country so that in future there will be many strong *leaders* to keep our Krsna Consciousness Movement strong." SPL, Govinda dasa, New York, 4/7/73 book distribution So by all means, let us do our best to keep out of the divorce courts but let us not, in an effort to resolve that, confuse the highest teachings given on Krishna Consciousness with marriage. "This is a *new thing* in the history of the sankirtana movement. In India all the acaryas and their dependents later on only acted from the man's side. Their wives were at home because that was the system from old times. BUT in Bhagavad-gita we find that women are also *equally* competent like the men in the matter of Krishna Consciousness movement. Please therefore carry on these *missionary* activities, and prove it by practical example that there is no bar for anyone in the matter of preaching Krishna Consciousness." SPL to Himavati 69-12-20 Prabhupada's Sankirtana movement ki jai! Your Servant, Prtha devi dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinimat Posted August 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 Today I write to you with a troubled heart. Krishna is taking over my life, but not my wife's. Because of all of the soul searching I did in order to finally come to Krishna, my wife is somewhat scared that I will abandon her and our plans for the future. Therefore, she is somewhat not attracted to Krishna Consciousness, if that makes sense. However, I can see it in her, that she is, she just doesn't remember. Through the Grace of Krishna, she is starting to ask questions more. Just yesterday, I suggested that we go to the lunch prasadam at the temple and she wanted to go! Unfortunately, we didn't because she only had an hour for lunch and we would hardly spend any time there. I pray everyday that Krishna will awaken His love within her heart. So, the problem is regarding our sexual relationship. I understand that you are a married devotee, so I hope that you can understand my concern. Honestly, I believe that I am not attached to sex. I do not want to have it and I would actually much rather take a vow of celebacy. That is my selfish interest. Whenever we have sex, it just seems like my mind is reeling and my Krishna Coinsciousness has diminished. Right now, it's fairly often, as we are trying to have a baby. However, I feel that if I say something to my wife, she would really, really become uninterested in Krishna Coinsciousness. Therefore, I feel like it is my duty as a husband to have sex with my wife, while remaining non attached to the act, in order to not push her away from Krishna Coinsciousness. Once she comes into Krishna Coinsciousness, she will then hopefully understand that there are far greater pleasures and we could then follow the prescribed restrictions regarding sex for married devotees. I feel like I am willing and need to sacrifice the development of my Krishna Coinsciousness by not taking a selfish (in terms of my marriage right now) vow of celebacy, or at least restricted sex, in order to help the development of my wife's Krishna Coinsciousness. Does that statement make sense? I obviously feel very much love my wife and I would be much happier if she were into Krishna Coinsciousness along with me. I'm just not sure what to do. Please advise me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 remember this: breaking a family is more irreligious than to have legitimate and legal sex between husband and wife please do not increase the reputation of hare krishnas as "family breakers" only a very very very few people respect the 3rd principle exactly as prabhupada says, only for procreating krsna conscious children, there's in devotees a big block who have sex in the family also for regular gratification and an also big group of devotees with many problems.. divorce, adultery, omosex, incoherence, fallings etc. it is not a joke that we have a percentage of divorce like the hollywood stars prabhupada sets the standards, we are now starting for 9500 of golden age.... surely in the future the precept of srila prabhupad will be relatively easy to follow, now not at all (many gurus in all gaudya vaishnava, iskcon included.... (sure... from the experience of some my close friends), are conscious of this and initiate accordingly the times and circumstances we are now living) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunanda Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 hi ! i'm very touched by your messages. as i'm in a situation very similar from yours, maybe we could talk privately about all your issues. i just got spiritualy married to an non-devotee girl, in the vedic fire last week !! feel free to write me at silvertouch108@.fr i'd be glad to discuss more about it, help you if i can or at least tell you my vision. Sunanda d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 Ideally there should be a spiritual relationship between husband and wife The husband is the guru for the wife in ancient Vedic times. But for Now they should at least have the same Guru,i.e,,following the same authority,spiritual preceptor, So that both parties can concur on where we go from here. We ultimately are really"married" to the spiritual master life after life, in this life we ought to see the wife as guru dasi; the wife should see the husband as guru dasa. We are married for service, i.e.for the procreation of Krishna Conscious children and raising them as devotees of the Lord. Very important service indeed! So sex is required for this seva for Krishna's pleasure. Otherwise sex is maya and misery for the really Krishna Conscious soul, who is on the path of Krishna bhakti.Yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.