livingentity Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 And Dude, animals like rabbit don't have souls. A body - be it human, dog, cat, rabbit or whatever is just an empty shell or dead without the soul. Has you father now told you how great to sleep with his previous rabbit wife? hmmm...note to self...add another brave nameless guest to my list of do not read nor respond to it's posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 it is not a big disease... you simply have to read, reflect ... and count until 1000 before write Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priitaa Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 No, nature is not God. Nature may inspire some to realize God has created all this, and they start on their path toward God consciousness, but nature is not God. That is why it's called "material" nature, prkriti. However, the "sleep with previous rabbit-wife" comment of the later poster is crude and not the sign of a spirtually minded person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 in a certain sense nature is god... remember the visva rupa form, remember also the bhagavad gita's 10th chapter, remember also that nature is brahman if, in a sense the nature is god, or a manifestation of his power (and the manifestation of god.. is god), of course nature is not the supreme personality of godhead but we were speaking of god Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 Please try to use standard explanations and terminology used by our acharyas. When people challenge, everyone is giving his own opinion without considering the understanding of the challenger. This is only confusing the challengers. No, nature is not God. God is God. Nature is of the external potency of God, and thus an emanation of Him. When nature is likened to God, it is to get across this concept. Though nothing is separate from Him, nevertheless He is aloof from His creation. BG 10th chapter refers to God's representation among various categories of things - the Pandavas, bowmen, heavenly bodies, bodies of water, mountains, Vedas, etc. The things listed are not necessarily God Himself - though some things are (Vishnu, Rama, Krishna) others are understood to be representations of His opulence. These things should be understood *properly.* To a Dvaitin, us saying that Nature is God will make it sound like we are preaching mayavada. We do no justice to Srila Prabhupada if we aren't 100% clear in our preaching. Thanks, and please forgive if I have offended you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 no offence, but i think that my explaining was appropriate and parampara' because i was answering to an attempt to separate the creation from god with the purpose to demonstrate that yes... we have to respect god, but the creatures and the nature are an indistinct "matter" without soul and true life in this way there's no need to respect, we can exploit , kill and eat anything without problem so, starting from this point of wiev it is correct and vaishnava to explain the creation and god are one in quality, and the creatures and nature are parts and parcel of krishna i repeat... GOD is also brahman, visva rupa etc THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD is krishna subtly but different the real purpose was: "do not kill animals, they are part of god's energy, killing let us not realize that everything belongs to krishna" ... time and circumstance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 Priitaa, Gauracandra is a vaisnava and a vegetarian. No doubt there. I understand what he means. I run into this on other forums. People that wouldn't think of hurting an animal are also very vocal in their insistence on the right to kill unborn humans in the womb. It also drives me nuts!!! You are not alone Gauracandraji. And the other way around, solid pro-life people that don't think twice about killing a cow for lunch. Ignorance most foul. We have to come to the point of equality of vision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 Please read the book The Dominion of Love, Animal Rights According to the Bible by Norm Phelps. He puts the Bible quotes on animal rights into perspective. Here is a review: http://www.all-creatures.org/book/r-domlove.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauracandra Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 Sorry, I might not have explained my frustration that well. You see, I see it all the time where Pro-choice individuals (ie. they support the killing of unborn humans) are against cruelty to animals. I remember seeing an interview with one animal rights activist who was against wearing fur. The interviewer asked a simple question - so are you prolife? A pretty simple question. The guy refused to answer the question. He kept dodging saying that was not his issue, his issue was not killing animals. You knew that in fact he was pro-choice. How can they hold this view? There must be some cognitive dissonance to say killing the unborn is ok but killing animals is wrong. I'm a vegetarian and am against the killing of either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myra Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 Before I proceed let me share to you the good news/ Scripture of the Day Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Matthew 5:6 I am really happy I found this site..this' not only very informative but at least I can now understand the views of each people. I know people who participated here are very thirty of knowledge and very active to share too...anyway..let's respect each other's belief...No one is perfect anyway.... Hi again theist... I am a strict vegetarian also (thanks to my fiancee/guru)...but I am also linient of choices of each and everyone of us...as what I have qouted from the bible... Romans 14:2-3, "One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The mans who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him." like what have posted above that says: "the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17). I understand that one of the causes of misunderstanding is the way people pick out readings and make it a proof..If we are going to collect all the scriptural evidences about this matter..I know we will understand... Bad news...we can't force others to stop killing animals becasue they believe NOT like what we believe... Anyway The Scripture have the good news! Scripture also seems to indicate that during the millennial reign of Christ on the earth (when the devil is bound for 1000 years), all creation will go back to being vegetarian. Read the following prophecy from Isaiah 11:6-9. "The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, and their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea." Praise God! The time is soon coming when all creation will rest in peace once again, and the creatures of the earth will no longer destroy each other or fear each other. This may sound like a distant utopia, but we know by the Word of God that it will come to pass. God's ultimate plan is to redeem His creation and restore it back to the way it was in the garden of Eden. Have a nice and prayerful day to all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 but I am also linient of choices of each and everyone of us...as what I have qouted from the bible... Romans 14:2-3, "One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The mans who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him." Yes I understand your point of view. That is why I referenced the book by Norm Phelps. He takes this very scriptures and puts them in context. Anyway, to say that a vegetarian has weak faith compared to a meat eater makes no sense. I am not a vegetarian because of some religious law. I find the wholesale slaughter of billions of innocent animals each year to be barbaric and against the natural sense of compassion and respect for other living things that comes naturally to one on a progressive spiritual journey. It is a cruel practice. how does compassion and cruelty exist in the same heart? "the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17). Like I said it is not a matter of religious rules with me.Nor can I consider slaughter of animals just for the sake of tasting their blood and flesh to be righteous. Main Entry: righ·teous 1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin 2 a : morally right or justifiable <a righteous decision> b : arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality <righteous indignation> Just the opposite. Cruelty is not in accord with divine or moral law, the law of the heart. I am outraged that our society condones such cruel activity. We feel peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. We also feel righteous indignation at the needly suffering of others. Sodid Christ or he would not have come to save us from our cruel ungodly ways of relating to others. I understand that one of the causes of misunderstanding is the way people pick out readings and make it a proof..If we are going to collect all the scriptural evidences about this matter..I know we will understand... That is why I suggested the book by Norm Phelps, the Dominion of Love. This book shows the context. Bad news...we can't force others to stop killing animals becasue they believe NOT like what we believe... True. like the saying goes "you can't stop a determined theif." But we can persuade them. Try to reason with them and make our feelings known on the matter. I also speak against abortion although I can't personally stop the practice. The more voices the more effective we will be. Scripture also seems to indicate that during the millennial reign of Christ on the earth (when the devil is bound for 1000 years), all creation will go back to being vegetarian. Read the following prophecy from Isaiah 11:6-9. Yes I have read it. Have you noticed that when the devil gets bound up, and God's plan is enacted on Earth, violence against animals stops? What does that tell you about who is behind the animal killing and meat eating? The devil. The kingdom of God will come through man. When our thoughts words and deeds are in line with God's will then the Kingdom is here. Or you could say we are then in the Kingdom. Either individually or collectively. So the Krsna consciousness position is why wait? We should enter into and live the Kingdom life starting now. That is following Jesus. "The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, and their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea." Yes very nice vision. I may suggest that humans will no longer maintain huge slaughterhouses and butcher shops either. So lets do our part now. As humans we have the responsibility to lead by example. That is part of what 'dominion' means. Praise God! The time is soon coming when all creation will rest in peace once again, and the creatures of the earth will no longer destroy each other or fear each other. This may sound like a distant utopia, but we know by the Word of God that it will come to pass. God's ultimate plan is to redeem His creation and restore it back to the way it was in the garden of Eden. Very good. So we ask those who call themselves Christians to do it and start living in harmony with God's plan. Until then their words ring hollow. Please help persuade your fellow Christians to start living a life more in tune with the Eden concept. We should practice before we preach. Have a nice and prayerful day to all! Thank you. We wish the same for you. Praise Lord Jesus, Hare Krsna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 Garuacandra and Thiest, Thanks for clearing that up. And its exactly why I asked. I had completely forgotten how they won't eat animails but will kill (unborn) babies! How degrading, yet they think they are so much more moral than others. That this abortion issue is even an issue, disgusts me. When I was growing up, it was illegal. When I was an older teenager, it became legalized. Ever since that time we, or others like us, have been fighting against this legalization of murder. I don't know why it never gets resolved. Well, I do, but that thought is depressing. YS, Prtha dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myra Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Hello Theist.... Even before I was introduced and I better understand the concept of vegetarianism..I never ate Cow or Bufallo nor Goat or Lamd meat..just I can't take the odor of the meat. I was a fish lover.Until late last year. I have been strict...(even it means I will fast almost everyday becasue I am living in a meat-eating community! It's soooo hard). My questions: (1) what are the food being restricted by the Krishna Conscious Society? (2) as far as I understand, vegetarianism in this community comes from the idea that we won't take life of living creations..is the idea includes green shells? And other food from shells? (3) How could you explain the life from the smallest animals in land and sea? Where they all came from the past Karma? As like what I have read from your books?(small reading actually).. Thanks! God Bless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 Need i say more after reading all your views....one must say to him/her self....is one worthy enough of commenting on how others view life...one can only lead thier own life according to thier beliefs but cannot make others follow the same....but provide sheer insight into thier beliefs and reasons behind the beliefs..... To all that contributed to this....thanks just remember...we all have an obligation in life to be humans as they way GOD prescribed humans to be....as how we interpret what that is well up to individuals...ones that are serious about truly understanding it..well you dont; have to go too far to search for it as you just need to look deep inside you..... JAI BHAWANI Pandit Praneel Datt Sharma Sydney Australia Originally from VUCI, NAUSORI, FIJI ISLNADS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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