Vedic tradition - get married on virgin or not virgin

[Subala]

I have a question about chastity of the girl who is not married.

 

It is known that men can have many wifes but women can have only 1 husband (Drupadi and couple other examples are exceptions we not touching).

 

Most people get married and most guys (at least speaking for myself) I wouldn't think about getting married on a girl which "had" someone else before the marriage.

 

Someone may not care. I can't speak from ladies prespective what they prefer...

 

But according vedic injunctions is there any injunctions about men taking the women who is not virgin... ???

 

I understand that many of us were not born in "vaishnava brahmin families" with packa parents and etc... but in vaishnava association - is there any special rules about marriage which says its ok to marry not virgin girls....?

 

I know the cases then devotee boy and girl like each other and etc... but boy finds out that girl is not "pure" (by asking questions not by other ways) and relationship breaks off.

 

Any one has more input on this?

 

 

[Guest guest]

"Most people get married and most guys (at least speaking for myself) I wouldn't think about getting married on a girl which "had" someone else before the marriage.

Someone may not care. I can't speak from ladies prespective what they prefer...

But according vedic injunctions is there any injunctions about men taking the women who is not virgin... ???"

 

you have the right to search for a virgin girl (and chaste... some one is virgin only in the ehem... body) if you are also virgin, chaste and pure... if you are not , you are not vedic, you are a big materialist and you want only to exploit others for your gratification

 

in the TRUE VEDIC CULTURE a girl is married very young, if the girl discover the sex life with the boy (older!!) whom she's married, it is said that she very easily remains faithful lifelong

 

of course it is forbidden to make these distincion "virgin, non virgin", "chaste, non chaste" for our devotee godsisters

 

it would be extremely offensive......... and not too much vedic

 

so search simply for a devotee girl to marry, serve and to have a shelter to go back to godhead together

[Guest guest]

Most men are not virgins, so we dont want to make acceptable or increase this 'traditional' double standard. And polygamy is not the way out of the material world. However, these are not the main point of my reply.

 

I suggest you worry more about her purity of consciousness and less about the material body. The heart and soul are where purity matters. All else is material. We do not see Prabhupada arranging marrigaes but first finding out who is virgin and getting her married as first of the 'pick', or to the better brahmacari, or showing any interest in this at all. Nada. What he looked at was how Krishna conscious both parties were. Ours is a transcendental path, which is ont always in agreement with tradition. With that said, do as you wish.

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[yasodanandana]

"What he looked (prabhupada) at was how Krishna conscious both parties were"

 

you have given the best answer...

[I_love_krishna_]

You are not a virgin and no body else is, because virginity only exists when there is a body ... body is an illusion, so is virginity and so is the whole marriage.

 

The true marriage for us is with krishna, the rest is all illusion.

 

So, I think whether you find a virgin /chaste/ sexy girl , or unchaste/ unvirgin/ ugly girl depends solely on your karma and is completely insignificant in this brief material existence. You are already married to the supreme /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Guest guest]

If you are going to marry, you might as well be attentive to certain practical considerations. Certainly you are not your body, and no one else is their body either, but despite acknowledging the transcendental goal, you are nevertheless on the bodily platform. Hence, just as one should observe his duties of varna and aashrama until he is fully surrendered, so also should he observe other external dharmas. Spiritual life is sublime, but practical, after all.

 

Traditionally, when one marries, it is implicitly understood that one should seek out (via one's elders) a chaste girl who is pious, devoted to her husband, respectful of elders, etc. Of course, all of this assumes that the male is chaste too. In varnaashrama society both males and females are brought up chaste, so that when they are allowed to come together under the union or marriage, the shared experience of sexual relations will help act as a bond. If the husband and wife are a little Krishna-conscious, then gradually as they realize that sex is not fulfilling they will together find fulfillment in worshipping Lord Krishna.

 

On the other hand, if boy and girl are used to carnal relations before marriage, its significance is instinctively less obvious for them, since it is not their first time. In that case they should be more than just a little Krishna-conscious, since the tendency towards bodily enjoyment is very strong. They might start comparing current sexual experiences with previous ones. Their minds might start to wander and wish for alternative methods of sensual enjoyment. You don't want to be in such a situation, I am sure.

 

Of course, many girls in ISKCON take to devotional service though in their previous karmi lives they might not have been chaste. I fully believe that Krishna-consciousness can reform one to the point that they can only be considered chaste. However, I must caution you that Krishna-consciousness only reforms a person as much as he or she allows it to. Many otherwise fine individuals take to Krishna-consciousness and appear to be cent percent engaged devotees, but nevertheless carry much emotional baggage with them and are not fully over their karmi past.

 

So I recommend personally that you find someone who is chaste in body, mind, and words, and also a little Krishna-conscious. But if you are not yourself a virgin, I think it is unreasonable for you to expect that your bride to be also be a virgin.

 

 

[livingentity]

 

But if you are not yourself a virgin, I think it is unreasonable for you to expect that your bride to be also be a virgin.

 

 

Also, you might want to consider the circumstances. Perhaps you are desiring to marry someone but they have been married before. There are some very good reasons for no longer being married - ie. death of spouse, abuse, spouse ran off with another etc. Or perhaps the one you are wanting to marry was an abuse victim. This person might be just the one that will be your life-long partner but you turn your back because of something they had no control over!

 

Another thing is age - if you are say 35 - 40 years old and want to marry someone your age then you might have a bit of a problem finding a virgin (including yourself!!).

 

Nobody wants someone who knows the sexual secrets of everyone else in town (intimately!) but you really need to be realistic and honest about your own purity and what you expect from others.

[Subala]

Thank you for your responces.

 

Few years back I was driving Drutakarma prabhu to the Atlanta conference from DC. and had a lot of time talk about philosophy.

 

Since that time lots of things I forgot but one thing I will never forget is: if you making a statement you always need to back it up with an evidence from sastra + sadhu + guru. At least sastra + prevous acharya must have mentioned it.

 

I used to tell him far-out stories which I heard on such and such tape from such and such devotee - and he would always asked me - is it mentioned somewhere in satras?

 

If it is not - you not getting 1st hand information. Since that time I do not take any information for granted if it not comming from "White paper" (sastra)

 

Some injunctions are common sense like: don't eat too much or too little (Sanatana Goswami Hari-bhakti-vilasa)

 

But some are not so stright forward like: speak the truth only and satyam priyam - speak the truth but do it palatably.

 

 

Same way - I was asking is there any injunctions about proper marriage ceremonies and as well as (like satyam priyam interpretation of speak only the truth) mentioning about prevous sex life of both boys and girls before marriage....?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Same way - I was asking is there any injunctions about proper marriage ceremonies and as well as (like satyam priyam interpretation of speak only the truth) mentioning about prevous sex life of both boys and girls before marriage....?

******

 

I personally think it is better to let the other party in the relationship know about this fact. Now I for the other party breaking up, this depends on that person. Some guys are really attached to this virginity thing in girls, which I don't get (I'm a guy btw), but we're all individuals.

 

I personally don't believe there is a satyam-priyam way of saying I had sex with another person.

[Guest guest]

>>Another thing is age - if you are say 35 - 40 years old and want to marry someone your age then you might have a bit of a problem finding a virgin (including yourself!!).

 

A person who has crossed 30 or so may be still virgin depending on culture where he or she is brought up. There are many guys and women in India who are not married even after 30 for various reasons and that does not mean they would have lost their virginity. These things happen only in US and other western countries, and not with people brought up in India.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Actually, there are even prostitutes who were gurus in the Vaishnava tradition. Chintamani was a prostitute yet she was the siksha guru of Bilavamangala Thakura. Some of the greatest female devotees were prostitutes. If a man is the type of person to judge a devotee girl on whether or not she is a virgin, then he is not fit to be a husband. Men who demand virgin wives are like Muslim fanatics who repress, exploit and dominate women as if they are some great god who deserves a harem of virgin wives.

 

the only disciple Srila Prabhupada mentioned by name in his Bhagavatam purports was a female disciple. none of the so-called "big-guns" made it in Prabhupada's Bhagavatam by name but a woman devotee and I can assure you she was no virgin when she became a devotee.

 

Forget the virgin/non-virgin calculations. It is a bodily concept and has nothing to do with Krishna consciousness.

 

this was written by a man......not a woman

[I_love_krishna_]

Forget the virgin/non-virgin calculations. It is a bodily concept and has nothing to do with Krishna consciousness.

---------------------------

 

In the words of Prabhupada:" But the rascals do not know it. They are always busy with temporary problems.My permanent problem is that because of ignorance I am taking birth, I am accepting disease, I am accepting old age, and I am accepting death."

 

So, we need to get out of ignorance and go back to Godhead! hare krishna! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

So, lets worry about reaching krishna. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

Subala,

 

Your point about providing scriptural evidence for every disputed belief is quite correct, and I salute you your desire to get such evidence in this case.

 

I did a quick scan of Manu-dharma-shaastra, because that's exactly where these kinds of things would be discussed. Although I did not find anything which explicitly spelled out that the girl must be virginal, I did find plenty of evidence to the effect that the girl must have auspicious features and no inauspicious features. One could argue that being a virgin would be implicit in this.

 

But even if one did not, there is certainly plenty of evidence in Manu to the effect that the brahmachari must be controlled in his senses - even to the point that he should not discharge semen accidentally! It would be pretty foolish for someone to claim that the girl's chastity is not assumed when the guy's chastity is so strictly regulated.

 

One thing we all have to realize is that these prescriptions were meant for a very civilized society. People did not have to be told "thou shalt not eat meat," or "thou shalt not have sex before marriage." These things were understood because people back then were civilized. Although you can find exceptions in many Puraanic stories, they are precisely that - exceptions, and often if you read on, all of them were associated with dire consequences of the adharmic behavior.

 

It's okay to overlook faults in the name of being transcendental, but if one is going to be so transcendental in the first place, then why look for a virgin girl? Why not enter a same sex marriage? Why even get married at all? The fact that one wants to get married presupposes that he has some material desires. So some material considerations need to be taken into account. Yes, you could argue that a woman who has just finished having illicit sex with a 100 different men is no different from a virgin girl who was raised chaste because both of them are now chanting Hare Krishna. But does the fact that both of them are externally chanting mean that both are on the same level of conciousness? Do both of them have the realization that Krishna is truly nondifferent from His name? Have both of them truly lost their taste for materialistic activity? If you had to gamble, I think you could reasonably guess that most of us don't even have such realizations yet. And thus, you are left with the reality that the consciousness of both girls is what they have made it while growing up, plus a little Krishna-consciousness perhaps, but not yet transformed by it.

 

Anyway, make your own decision. Many devotees don't know how to give practical advice because they are too busy preaching all sorts of transcendental sentiments which even they have not realized yet. When you get married, you will see the reality that they have not yet comprehended.