BIBLICAL EVIDENCE

[Guest guest]

 

BBC News World Edition

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2655781.stm

Tuesday, 14 January, 2003, 03:41 GMT

'Biblical Temple' tablet found

 

The tablet was reportedly found where the Temple stood

 

Israeli geologists say a purportedly ancient stone tablet detailing repair plans for the Jewish Temple of King Solomon is genuine, an Israeli newspaper has reported.

The fragment is said to date from the period of the Jewish King Joash, who ruled the area 2,800 years ago.

 

Our findings show that it is authentic

 

 

Shimon Ilani

Israeli Geological Institute

If officially authenticated, the find would be the first piece of physical evidence backing up biblical texts.

 

It could also intensify competing claims to the site in Jerusalem's Old City, where the stone is said to have been found, which go to the heart of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

 

Muslim clerics have denied any Jewish historical connection with the site, revered by Jews as the location of their biblical temples.

 

'Biblical' instructions

 

The blackened stone was unearthed during renovations by Muslim authorities on a mosque compound, known to Muslims as Haram as-Sharif and to Jews as the Temple Mount, according to the Ha'aretz daily.

 

The tablet is inscribed with ancient Phoenician

The incomplete sandstone tablet contains an inscription in ancient Phoenician in which a king tells priests to take "holy money... to buy quarry stones and timber and copper and labour to carry out the duty with the faith".

 

If the work is completed well, it adds, "the Lord will protect his people with blessing".

 

The words closely resemble descriptions in the biblical Book of Kings II and refer to King Joash.

 

The first Temple, Judaism's holiest shrine, was built by King Solomon and stood for 400 years before it was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BC.

 

'Sensational' find

 

The tablet was examined by experts at Israel's Geological Institute.

 

"Our findings show that it is authentic," Ha'aretz quoted Shimon Ilani from the institute as saying.

 

Mr Ilani said carbon dating showed the tablet was inscribed around the 9th Century BC.

 

The stone was also said to have been found to contain microscopic gold flecks, which mean it may have existed in the Temple itself.

 

A top Israeli archaeologist, Gabriel Barkai, said that if the tablet was definitively authenticated, it would be a "sensational" discovery.

 

The director of the Islamic Trust that administers the mosque compound, however, denied that the tablet had been discovered there.

 

[Guest guest]

<< The director of the Islamic Trust that administers the mosque compound, however, denied that the tablet had been discovered there. >>

 

yes, islam is a problem to all and everywhere.

 

Hindus know since milleniums that there was rama temple in ayodhya. recent archeological findings proved it that yes, the rama temple was desroyed by the muslims and babri mosque built on top of it, and still the muslims will argue about it.

 

the first mistake any country can make is allow islam in their country. it is like allowing a cancer cell in your body. india made a mistake, and india still suffers since 1000 years. it will be fixed soon by a great revolution.

 

jai sri krishna! -madhav

 

[Kulapavana]

Demons use material religious sentiments to control the masses - do not get dragged to this level.

What is a meanining of such "proof", and what does it really prove? ...that there is a some truth to Old Testament accounts? Do not waste time on such primitive concepts of spirituality, especially since you have obviously tasted the Vedic nectar...

[dzimmerm]

There does not seem to be a lot of information available via a google search on this subject. The original story in january and then something about it in march show up. It is now september. Wonder what is up?

 

dzimmerm

 

[dzimmerm]

It would seem the authorities in geology say the stone table is the correct age.

 

The language authorities say the inscription is a forgery.

 

I find it funny that someone could make an inscription in modern times that the geologists could not figure out was recent.

 

This case seems to have been decided on opinion rather than scientific evidence.

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_joash.htm

 

is a link to one of the more recent stories with information from july of 2003.

 

dzimmerm

[dzimmerm]

It looks like they proved the tablet a very carefull forgery. Hard to say what is really true. Luckly I do not care if it is true or not.

 

The latest article I found says the tablet is really old but the inscription is recent and made to look old. Apparently the forger managed to take the remains of the stone caused by the inscription process and make a paste of it and coat the inscribed letters to make them look like they had a layer of aged stone the same age as the rest of the tablet.

 

Humans are clever little monkies now, aren't they?

 

dzimmerm

[Kulapavana]

I'm going to repeat myself: "Demons use material religious sentiments to control the masses..." ...and they will stop at nothing in their pursuit

[Guest guest]

Thats something I'd like to hear the "Gitas" view on. When I was younger (16) and Christian I had it out with one threw me off my bed choked me almost to death I could evan smell it.Jesus Lord save me Poof and it was gone it felt like a 1000 angels lifted me back on my bed ? I think they did, then slept with me what a feeling!!!! Later when I "grew "up I again met one in a dream but "I" was awake, mindfull , and aware of my breath in this dream strange Ijust walked right threw it like it wasnt there Do you think they "demons" really exist or we make them?

[Guest guest]

Dear dzimmerm,

 

You quote: “If you claim knowledge of the unknown without tangible proof then your words have no meaning for me.”

 

I know that it’s too early for us to believe if the discovery is true or not. Only God knows what’s the purpose or reason of this show up, whether for a wake up call for the non-believers that question the authority of Holy Bible; or if this is one way of fanatic Bible believers to bluff the people.

 

However, what if the discovery is true, are you really going to believe or give meaning to the words, since there is a tangible proof for the claims?

 

“John 20:28-29 - And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

 

Mystery continues on Jerusalem's 'Temple Tablet'

 

Saturday, March 29, 2003

 

By RICHARD N. OSTLING, Associated Press

 

The dispute continues over the supposed discovery of the first inscription directly tied to one of the ancient kings in the Bible.

 

If authentic and truly thousands of years old, the words on the so-called "Temple Tablet" would undergird Israel's present-day claim to Jerusalem's Temple Mount.

 

 

A July 11, 2000 aerial photo of east Jerusalem's Old City shows some of the 36 sacred acres with the golden Dome of the Rock mosque in the center, known to the Muslims as Haram as-Sharif, or Noble Sanctuary, and to the Jews as Temple Mount. Israeli archaeologists are examining a stone tablet, about the size of a legal pad, with a 10-line inscription in ancient Phoenician that details repairs to the Jewish Temple and strongly resembles a passage in the Bible'sSecond Book of Kings. If authenticated, the find — whose origins remain murky — would be a rare piece of physical evidence confirming biblical narrative. Associated Press

 

This would also buttress traditional Jewish and Christian belief in the reliability of Old Testament history, against liberal scholars who treat the accounts of King Solomon and his Temple as fiction.

 

This is "the most important and exciting archaeological discovery," according to one interested party, the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement, which wants to reconstruct Jerusalem's Temple. But some leading scholars say the business is a hoax.

 

The tablet is a slab of dark sandstone, the size of a legal pad, inscribed with 15 lines in ancient Hebrew. The message echoes biblical accounts (2 Kings 12, 2 Chronicles 24) about Temple repairs under King Jehoash (or Joash). By conventional reckoning, the Temple was completed 2,962 years ago and Joash reigned several generations afterward.

 

The discovery was reported in the Israeli press in January. To sort through the confusion that has continued since then, the current issue of Biblical Archaeology Review provides a typically informative assessment by its editor, Hershel Shanks.

 

There's considerable mystery, since the lawyer representing the tablet's owner won't say who he is, how he got it or exactly where and how it was found. Press reports say some Arabs obtained it in a valley near the Temple Mount (or Noble Sanctuary, the name used by the holy site's Muslim administrators).

 

The unknown origin makes verification more difficult and adds to suspicions of possible forgery.

 

What's at stake, Shanks says, is not just this tablet but how specialists make decisions about any ancient artifact.

 

If this inscription is authentic, he writes, that will impugn the detective ability of epigraphers (inscription experts) and philologists (language experts). If it's a hoax, that will undercut confidence in work by geologists.

 

In 2001, the tablet was shown to Joseph Naveh, a specialist in ancient writings at Israel's Hebrew University. He concluded it was probably a forgery, and later became even more dubious. The tablet was then submitted to the Geological Survey of Israel, where experts Michael Dvorchik, Shimon Ilani and Amnon Rosenfeld pronounced it authentic.

 

Since then, textual experts have split. Frank Moore Cross of Harvard University, Kyle McCarter of Johns Hopkins University and Robert Deutsch of Israel's Haifa University are among the nay-sayers who think technical mistakes in spelling and letter shapes indicate forgery.

 

Other text specialists are undecided. One problem is that there's little written material from that era for comparison.

 

On the opposite side, the geologists report electron microscope examination showed the surface film (patina) formed naturally and indicates an ancient inscription. The patina in a crack is said to reinforce this conclusion. Nor was there evidence of glues or other artificial substances to apply patina.

 

In addition, fine particles of carbon were discovered in the patina that allowed carbon-14 tests to fix a date of 400 B.C. to 200 B.C. at 95 percent certainty. There were also microscopic globules of pure gold. In one theory, the carbon and gold could have come from the burning of the Temple during the Babylonian conquest (586 B.C.).

 

Shanks raises circumstantial points: If the owner knew the tablet was fake he would never have taken it to an expert like Navek, so any fraud must lie elsewhere. How could a forger plant those ancient bits of carbon or fake the patina so cleverly that expert geologists would be misled?

 

Are modern forgers now so adept that they can produce writing that fools textual experts, or stones that fool the geologists? An unnerving prospect.

 

Some Israeli historians are now calling for wider and repeat testing to help settle all this.

 

 

[Guest guest]

WHY CHRISTIANITY? WHY THE BIBLE?

by

 

Kippy Myers, Ph.D.

 

Are religions of the world simply different expressions of the same thing? Is Christianity the counterpart to Hinduism, Islam, or Buddhism, and do these religions merely “complement” one another? Is Allah the same deity as Jehovah, and is Jehovah the same as the Hindu god, Brahman? There are some who think that we are all trying to get to the same place, and simply call God by different names or approach Him in different ways. Thus, in the final analysis, the different approaches are coequal, and therefore equally acceptable to God.

 

The brief answer to these questions is a simple “no.” These religions are not the same truth in different wrappings. We can discern why by noting some of the radical distinctions at the very heart of these religions that show how completely distinct and unrelated they are. Of course, they have things in common (they are religions, they have deities, they have holy books, etc.), but this does not mean that they are equally efficacious, any more than a book with blank pages is equal to a book filled with good information.

 

Let me introduce an important term—“ontology.” Ontology refers to something’s being, essence, or nature. It has to do with what makes it what it is even after being stripped of all its unnecessary elements. Hinduism, Islam, and Christianity are different ontologically. When you strip them of their coincidental characteristics and focus on what makes them distinct as religions, they are radically divergent. They are different by their very nature, even in their most basic elements. Their books, their concepts of salvation, and even their deities are wildly different from one another. Let us make a simple beginning by noting a few of their essential differences.

 

 

[Guest guest]

THE BOOKS OF WORLD RELIGIONS

DISASSOCIATE THEMSELVES FROM ONE ANOTHER

 

Individuals who claim to be members in good standing of one religion (whether Christian, Moslem, or Hindu) sometimes extend the hand of fellowship to those in other religions. That is, some express a willingness to accept people who remain in other religions as if they have their deity’s blessing. But for the most part, these open-armed well-wishers are viewed as heretics by the faithful followers because the holy books themselves, which form the very center of the religions, are not so accepting of one another. Can the follower be better than the “inspired” book from which he gains faith?

 

The Bible—For example, the New Testament clearly claims to be the only way by which a person can come to God (specifically, one must come through Jesus—John 14:6; 2 John 9; et al.). This establishes solid barriers against all who disagree with the person of Jesus depicted in the gospel accounts. Prior to New Testament times, Judaism carried the same policy. In the Old Testament, God always spoke against pagan religions and their followers. The religions of Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, Canaan, Greece, and others are roundly attacked, condemned, and described in great detail as false and devilish.

 

Obviously, simply calling something “god” and worshipping it does not mean that it is acceptable to the God of the Bible. Jesus said that they who worship God must do so in spirit and in truth (John 4:24). Amazing as it may seem to those who think that the God of the Bible approves of other religions, the apostles of Christ even condemned those in the Christian age who were going backward, trying to be saved by the Mosaic law, a religion that unquestionably centered on the same God as Christianity (Galatians 5:4). In addition, they even condemned their own Christian brethren if they were living wrongly (Acts 8:18-23; Galatians 2:11).

 

Thus, even if the different religions did comprehend the same God, worshipping the same God does not legitimize one’s religion or religious practices according to the Bible since the one true God must be worshipped properly, that is, as the Bible prescribes (Colossians 3:17). The Bible claims to be the uniquely acceptable religion before God, and specifically condemns any other as illegitimate. Whatever we say about Islam and Hinduism’s relationship to Christianity, we cannot say justifiably that biblical Christianity has any affiliation with them. Any superimposition of fellowship between them would be forced and unnatural.

 

The Koran—The Islamic holy book, the Koran (or Qur’an), claims to be the final word from God. It claims that the Bible was just a step in its direction, so the Koran is further and final revelation (Sura 4:161). Whereas the Bible says that the apostles would be led into all Truth, and although it condemns additional and different alleged revelations as false (e.g., John 16:13; Galatians 1:6-9), the Koran teaches that if a person has only the Bible, it is not enough because then he rejects the greatest prophet of all, Mohammed. Since the Islamic holy book condemns unbelievers, it condemns those who accept only the Bible.

 

Whereas the Bible says that Jesus was and is God, and is the only way to heaven (Philippians 2:5-11; Hebrews 5:9), the Koran exalts Mohammed above Jesus. Mohammed explicitly says several times that Jesus was not God, but a prophet and apostle (Sura 5:79; 4:169, et al.). The apostle John, however, calls the teacher of this doctrine “the antichrist” and has a lot to say about his spiritual condition (1 John; 2 John; 3 John).

 

Speaking of misbelievers (which would most definitely include Hindus) who turn others from the path of God, the Koran says in Sura 13:34, “For them is torment in this world’s life; but surely the torment of the next is more wretched still—nor have they against God a keeper” and “the recompense of misbelievers is the Fire!” (13:35). Also, “Whosoever craves other than Islam for a religion, it shall surely not be accepted from him, and he shall, in the next world, be of those who lose” (Sura 3:79).

 

Mohammed claimed that his revelations came from God via a Heavenly Book from which all Zoroastrian, Jewish, and Christian revelations came. The Bible, however, teaches that God is not a God of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33), which would be contradicted if all of these conflicting religions came from the same source. The Koran says that Moslems believe what was revealed to Jesus and the prophets, but this is incredible in light of the aforementioned facts in addition to hundreds of others left unmentioned here (Sura 3:78-79). Amazingly, Richardson says in his introduction to the Koran, “the Qur’an often contradicts itself as well as other scriptures. Allah, then, changes his mind and alters the text of the Heavenly Book accordingly (Surah 13:39).” Compare this with Jesus’ statements, “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word will not pass away” (Matthew 24:35), and “The Scripture cannot be broken” (John 10:35).

 

Hindu Writings—Contradictions between the most basic doctrines of the Bible and the Koran could be multiplied, and the Hindu Vedic literature is widely divergent from these two. As different as they are, the Bible and the Koran have more in common than either has in common with Hindu writings. Vedic materials are something altogether different. The point here is that if the major religious books condemn and contradict one another on such fundamental issues, where does anyone get the idea that they belong together? If we believe any one of them, we must disbelieve the others. They cannot be related unless severely mutilated. They clearly are mutually exclusive. Since they so clearly do not affiliate, which, if any, is the right one?

 

 

[Guest guest]

HISTORICAL EVENTS AND INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCES

 

The Koran—Islam is based entirely upon the secret, private experiences of one man. Mohammed regularly went alone to a cave and said that a Revealer delivered visions to him there. He later identified this person as the angel Gabriel. Only one person allegedly saw the angel. Only one person allegedly heard a voice. Only one person allegedly saw the visions. The only way to become a Moslem, then, is to take this one man’s word for it. We must believe a man who was kicked out of his home town, became a robber baron, led a pack of thieves in attacks on caravans, and then later returned to the city and took it by force. Compare the lifestyle and character of this man with that of Jesus Whom he claims to supersede, and see who is more worthy of belief.

 

The Bible—In vivid contrast to this approach of having to take one man’s word for an entire religion and basing one’s eternal destiny on one person’s private visions, the Bible is rooted and grounded in objective historical events—things many thousands of people beheld. Its specific times, places, people, and events can be located in history. Archaeology, ancient history, geography, literature, etc., corroborate its details. These give the Bible the ring of authenticity, and tie it to reality outside the mind of any single person or any group of people.

 

Because of this, the Bible has a beginning, middle, and end. It has a flow, a progression, a unity. It is very orderly and systematic. The Koran, however, is a very disjointed collection of many small apothegms called Suras. This is because Mohammed could not write and did not intend for his revelations to be compiled into a book. Richardson’s introduction to the Koran says, “It was addressed to the ear, not to the critical eye....” However, after Mohammed died and many began to question the legitimacy of his visions, believers gathered together the leaves, potsherds, etc., on which his sayings allegedly had been copied by some of his hearers. Someone later edited them and put them in a book format. Richardson says, “Apart from its preposterous arrangement, the Qur’an is not so much a book as a collection of manifestoes, diatribes, harangues, edicts, discourses, sermons, and such-like occasional pieces. No subject is treated systematically....” It certainly does not appear to be related to an alleged Mother Book from which the Old and New Testaments also were derived. The Koran’s sum and substance is very different from Scripture as Christians know it.

 

Hindu Writings—The holy literature of Hinduism encompasses many volumes, and is referred to as the Vedic literature. The most widely known is the Bhagavad-Gita, a small section of the much larger section, the Mahabharata—a huge work that has influenced Hinduism profoundly. It allegedly was composed over a period of eight hundred years (400 B.C. to A.D. 400), and supposedly tells the Sanskrit history of the ancient world. But as A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada says in his translation, the Gita is “the essence of Vedic knowledge.”

 

The high god in Hinduism is Brahman. In a sense, Brahman is the All, the infinitely embracing Everything—ultimate reality. In another sense, Brahman is a god composed of Brahma, Shiva (the one often pictured with four arms), and Vishnu. Each of these three has a basic personality and work. Brahma creates, Shiva destroys, and Vishnu preserves. Each has wives, sons (one of Shiva’s sons is the elephant-headed Ganesha), daughters, and a series of folklore-type adventures. Their consorts also are worshipped, so there is actually an indefinite number of gods. A Hindu expert will tell you that they often use the number 330,000,000 as a convenient way of describing how many are worshipped. The boundaries and eccentricities of Hinduism, therefore, are very loose, and there are many types and sects of Hindus. What ties them together seems to be their belief in Brahman and the pantheon of gods, reincarnation (the idea that after you die you are reborn into another life on Earth), karma (the law which says that if you were bad in this life you will have a difficult life in the next), and the Vedic teachings.

 

One of Vishnu’s avatars (incarnations) was named Krishna. He has been described as “an impetuous, violent, and erotic figure.” Krishna is the speaker and the hero of the Bhagavad-Gita, in which he is prince of a great dynasty. The Gita’s setting is a battle in which he is involved with relatives who are enemies of his kingdom. There is no way of checking whether these events actually occurred or if this is pure legend, since we have no record of the events outside the Gita itself.

 

Someone might respond, “But why is it better to be historical and checkable (like the Bible) than to be non-historical (like the Koran or Vedic writings)?” The real issue, of course, is that we believe we must be rational in regard to religion. Does anyone seriously suggest that we be irrational about it? If we are to be irrational, then what is the use of arguing rationally that we must be irrational? Why worry about persuading people that the major religions are all the same if it does not really matter? Actually, all of the world religions attempt to use reason and (with the possible exception of Buddhism) teach their adherents to use their minds in religion. Even though Buddhism tries to get its adherents to a point in meditation where they lose thought and feeling, it uses reason to teach them, to explain itself, and to get them to that point. The point is, should reason and proof be the “engine that pulls our train of life” or not? Should we not require proof for what we believe? If not, that would put us in the position of accepting every person who claimed a divine vision. The Bible both demands proof and provides it (Deuteronomy 18:20; Isaiah 41:21-24; 1 Thessalonians 5:21, et al.).

 

 

[Guest guest]

UNIQUENESS OF INCARNATION

The Bible—The Christian system centers on the fact that God has come to Earth in a physical body and made a one-time sacrifice for sin (John 1:1-14; Philippians 2:5-9). The Bible says that the salvation of mankind was accomplished only through this act and that apart from it, man would be hopelessly lost in sin (John 3:16; Ephesians 1:7, et al.). The incarnation of the Word, along with His death and resurrection, combine to form the fundamental essential truth that defines Christianity (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Without it, Christianity would not exist.

 

Hindu Writings—In Hinduism, there is no requirement to escape from sin before judgment comes (Hebrews 9:27) because for the Hindu, there is no final judgment day. Rather, the Universe is eternal; we live here forever in different personalities, one lifetime after another. The goal is to gain release from being reincarnated. The incarnation and sacrifice of someone in Jerusalem plays no role at all in Hinduism. Hindus gain release from this cycle through individual observance of ritual, right thinking, and right acting. Everything we get in this life is what we deserve because of the way we lived in past lives (even though we cannot remember our past lives so as to learn to do better in the next one, we still suffer for them). If we are better in each successive life, we will climb the ladder of goodness until we finally achieve release and oneness with divinity and the Universe.

 

Thus, there is also no unique one-time incarnation of God because the Hindu god, Vishnu, has come in the flesh many times in a number of guises. Vishnu has visited Earth ten times as a deliverer (as Rama, Krishna, et al.). For example, the one to whom the Gita is directed is a warrior named Arjuna. One day Krishna is driving his chariot, and Arjuna says to him, “You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the ultimate abode, the purest, the Absolute Truth. You are the eternal, transcendental, original person, the unborn, the greatest” (10:12-14). In the section “Knowledge of the Absolute” Krishna says, “as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, I know everything that has happened in the past, all that is happening in the present, and all things that are yet to come” (10:26). He elsewhere comments, “This material nature is working under My direction.” Hence, he was allegedly deity in the flesh several times.

 

The Koran—Islam teaches that Jesus Christ was not deity, but rather one of the great prophets (see previous quotes). His death is not necessitated for redemption, and if He died on the cross at all, its purpose was definitely not to wash away our sins. Moslems believe that salvation is obtained through observance of the “five pillars” of Islam: recite the creed (which is basically, “There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet”); pray five times daily while facing the holy city of Mecca; give alms to the poor; fast for an extended period each year; and once in your life make a pilgrimage to Mecca.

 

 

[Guest guest]

RADICALLY DIVERGENT DIVINITY

 

Hindus do not believe the Universe was created by God out of nothing. It is simply an eternal emanation from Brahman. It is illusory and must be escaped so that we may gain what is real, viz., oneness with the Universe and oneness with Brahman. Islam and Christianity think of this as blasphemy, for Jehovah is perfect in every way, and infinite in every attribute. A created being never could attain such a degree of being and certainly never could become God.

 

Hindu gods in their many thousands of representations are commonly worshipped by means of figurines and “idols” that are condemned by both Old and New Testaments (e.g., the first two of the ten commandments—Exodus 2:3-4). One of Mohammed’s primary goals was to condemn and destroy this practice.

 

Islam also says there is only one member of the godhead, Allah. Christianity preaches a trinity: God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:18). Obviously, Christianity and Islam are as opposed to Hinduism on this matter as it is to them.

 

 

[Guest guest]

DECIDING WHICH IS RIGHT

 

From this brief introductory study it can be seen that these three religions and their books cannot be equated. But the question remains, which one should we accept? I maintain that we should accept the Bible over other religious books because no book can amass the evidence for supernatural origin that the Bible can. No other book (exhibits such profound evidence for inspiration. We should accept the Bible because:

 

(1) It claims to be from God. That in itself does not prove its claim, but the claim is something we should look for. Would God send His revelation anonymously?

 

(2) It is based in history, not in the subjective experience of one individual. That opens it to being tested. It can be proven or disproven.

 

(3) It contains the highest and purest moral teachings. They remain unsurpassed for their simplicity, applicability, and profundity.

 

(4) It contains prophecies that are made and fulfilled. They surpass the possibility of human or natural powers to foresee or bring about.

 

(5) It has a sublime unity about it in every way—doctrine, progression of thought, story line, theme, details, structure, etc.

 

(6) It is accurate in every way—historically, geographically, scientifically, etc. As diligently as skeptics have tried for centuries, there never has been one flaw or contradiction proven to be in the Bible that would establish that it is not what it claims to be. Yet, “to err is human.”

 

(7) It contains medical and scientific knowledge ahead of its time. The Bible did not partake of its contemporary medical and scientific ignorance.

 

(8) It has had an immeasurably profound impact on the world and always in a positive way whenever faithfully practiced.

It has the best textual sources of any ancient book. That is, we can trace its history back to its beginnings more accurately, and with greater corroboration, than any major writing of the ancient world.

 

(9) It contains a reasonable view of God, man, and truth.

It is indestructible. Its most powerful, rabid, and scholarly opponents have failed to do away with it.

It always is current. Last year the Book of the Month Club asked 2,000 of its readers what book most influenced their lives. The Bible was number one.

 

(10) It addresses our fundamental questions about why we are the way we are, why suffering exists, where we came from, what our destiny will be, how the Universe began and how it will end, etc.

 

(11) It fulfills our spiritual, social, psychological, and emotional needs.

 

(12) It is incredibly brief, although it is set forth as a seminal book from the Creator. Men are notorious for their verbosity in such matters.

 

(13) It is based on the testimony of thousands of witnesses throughout its history.

 

(14) It portrays its heroes, flaws and all. It is unbiased in its treatment of history, unlike works of men praising their heroes.

 

On the other hand, the evidence for the inspiration of the Koran is based solely upon the testimony of one man, Mohammed. The same kind of “evidence” would make you a Hindu. Why accept Mohammed’s testimony and reject the Hindu testimony? Or, why accept the Hindu writings and reject the Koran? Both have essentially the same evidence in their favor. One cannot be proven to be any more legitimate than the other.

 

However, the preceding list includes just a few of the many very significant avenues that should be considered if a person is truly seeking to be open-minded about searching for truth among the world’s alleged books from God.

 

All religions are not the same. Their most basic doctrines readily contradict the others. However, there is one religion that is based upon a book that provides good reasons to be believed—unity and consistency of thought, high standards of thought and conduct, etc. Which should we believe?

 

[yasodanandana]

""From this brief introductory study it can be seen that these three religions and their books cannot be equated"

 

i am very sorry that you had to write a long message, but you have build it on these foundation and they are extremely weak

 

change with:

 

"examinating the authentic religions very attentively, in a favorable state of mind,under the direction of a pure and saint spiritual master we can see that god is one and his purpose is to bring everyone back to him... for this purpose, as a good teacher, he gives many lessons perfectly suited for the pupils he meet and not for others... but if we are not so expert or we are materially ad selfishly motivated, we see different gods and incompatible religions"

 

god is great, he does not reveal himself only to a little people (hebrews) in a little land (palestine)

 

 

bible is word of god.... but if you think to use the bible as a weapon to kill other religions, you have bought a wrong book in the store or you are reading it upside-down

 

 

[Kulapavana]

In a nutshell, demons are all living entities working against God and His devotees. Some evil spirits are called demons, and such name is also given to evil people like Stalin or Hitler. And we may have our own "demons" such as gambling or drug addiction. But all these DO exist! Sometimes at night we are approached by a ghost that wants a joy ride in our body, and sometimes we just have a bad dream. In either case use the Holy Name to chase the ghost away or come out of the bad dream. It is very effective. At one time we lived in a house so ridden with ghosts it was near impossible to sleep well without a strong light in the room. All of us had the same problems, so it was not just a case of a bad dream... Always remember the Holy Name... :-)

[Guest guest]

 

When the time comes, not so distant, the Words of God will prevail.

 

Many of you will seek God but you cannot find. You will call but there is no answer, becasue your heart has been hardened of doubts and superiority. Because the God you are calling: have ears but cannot hear, have shoulders, but you can't lean on, have hands but can't wipe away the tears.

 

However, when the time comes, when you feel that the path you are taking is endless, always remember that not so distant, God is watching you and is very willing to shed his blood again, to give you life and hope. He will lead you to His Father. . . No other but Jesus.

 

The Father Loves Us All and His Mercy is immeasurable. His only wish, that we may believe in His Beloved Son, Whom He is well pleased.

 

 

[Kulapavana]

"I maintain that we should accept the Bible over other religious books because no book can amass the evidence for supernatural origin that the Bible can" LOL! First: you should study the history of the Biblical writings very closely. If you do, you will find a lot of "natural" (as opposed to "divine") editing, cannonizing etc. Second: you should compare the Biblical writings to Vedic texts, such as Bhagavad Geeta, Vedanta, Vishnu Purana or Srimad Bhagavatam. If you do you will see that Biblical texts are composed by and for very simple people. Simple in their spiritual growth, philosophical capability and every day culture. I like your faith in the Bible but do not speak of things you know very little about. Millions of lives were wiped out by ignorant and selfish people holding a Bible in one hand and a weapon in the other. That is a Biblical legacy as well... read in the Old Testament of tribes wiped out by Jews claiming the "divine" right to do so... that is how it all started!

[Guest guest]

 

Objective Reliability

 

The remarkable number of fulfilled prophecies in the Bible testify to its reliability.

 

Unlike the histories of ancient Indians, Chinese, Mayans, and almost any other group one can list, the Bible very frankly and objectively admits and deals with the sins and faults of its own patriarchs, kings, apostles, people, and the Church. Genesis 12.11-13; 49.5-7; Deuteronomy 9.24; 2 Samuel 11-12; Matthew 8.10-26; 26.31-56; Mark 6.52; 8.18; Luke 8.24-25; 9.40-45; John 10.6; 16.32; 1 Corinthians 1.11; 15.12; 2 Corinthians 2.4; etc.

 

Archaeological confirmation of the Bible also testifies to its reliability.

 

1) Transliteration of 184 names and titles of 40 kings of Moab, Egypt, Assyria, and Babylon spanning 1600 years (2000-400 BC). Not one mistake in transliterating their names into Hebrew, and vice versa. Moreover, they appear in precise chronology with respect to the kings of the same country and with respect to the kings of other countries. Robert Dick Wilson, a philology (i.e., language) professor at Princeton and himself fluent in forty-five languages, referenced a mathematician who cites the probability of the chronology alone, not counting the transliteration, to be a result of mere coincidence to be 1 in 75x1022.

 

2) Verification of all titles used for political posts as given by Luke in Acts and Luke.

 

A book that confuses names, dates and events would have no right to claim that God wrote it. Contrast this with the Book of Mormon, whose names of geographic places, nationalities, and monetary units have never been verified with one archaeological find.

 

 

The following arguments also testify to the reliability of the Biblical text:

 

No ancient document is as well attested bibliographically as the New Testament.

 

Author/Text Written in Earliest copy Time gap # of copies

 

Caesar, Gallic Wars ~ 58-50 BC 900 AD >900 years 10

 

Livy NLT 17 AD 300s AD (frags of 3 vols) ~300 ys 1 whole

 

(only fragments of 35 vols exist from his 142-volume Roman History) 20 frags

 

Plato, Tetralogies NLT 347 BC 900 AD >1200 years 7

 

Tacitus, Annals (10 of 16 vols) 112 AD 1000 AD ~900 years 20

 

(6 vol fragment) 800s AD ~700 years 1

 

Pliny II, History NLT 113 AD 850 AD ~750 years 7

 

Thucydides, History NLT 404 BC 900 AD >1300 years 8

 

(fragment) 1 AD ~400 years 1

 

Suetonius, Lives of Caesars ~120-140 AD 950 AD 800 years 8

 

Herodutus, History NLT 425 BC 900 AD >1300 years 8

 

Horace NLT 8 BC 900 AD >900 years ?

 

Sophocles NLT 406 BC 1000 AD >1400 years 100

 

Lucretius NLT 53 BC 1050 AD ~1100 years 2

 

Catullus 54 BC 1550 AD ~1600 years 3

 

Euripides NLT 406 BC 1100 AD ~1500 years 9

 

Demosthenes NLT 322 BC 1100 AD >1300 years 200

 

Aristotle NLT 322 BC 1100 AD >1300 years 5

 

Aristophanes NLT 385 BC 900 AD >1200 years 10

 

Homer, Iliad 900 BC 400 BC (fragment) 500 years 653

 

1200s AD (whole) 2100years

 

Virgil NLT 14 BC 300s AD >300 years

 

Velleius Paterculus, Roman History ca 30 AD 1600s AD >1500 years 1

 

New Testament 40-100 AD 68-130 AD (fragments) 20-90 years

 

200 (compiled from quotes) 100 years

 

250 (entire) 150 years

 

325 (undisputed whole-text) 225 years 25,000

 

Text # of lines # of lines w/ disputed transmission % of total

 

Iliad 15,600 764 4.9%

 

Mahabharata 250,000 26,000 10.4%

 

New Testament 20,000 40 0.2%

 

 

[yasodanandana]

your behaviour demonstrates that you are in no way a real practitioner of any religion and that your faith is so weak that receiving a simple answer you are already defeated and you find no more words to defend your philosophical position

 

"The Father Loves Us All and His Mercy is immeasurable. His only wish, that we may believe in His Beloved Son, Whom He is well pleased"

 

we will not realize it if we spend our time to make war to other spiritualists

 

[yasodanandana]

what is the difference? he is saying that bible is good and others are false... you are saying that vedas are good and bible is false...

 

why fight fanaticism with another fanaticism?

 

the purpose is to promote love between spiritualists and to act together to spread the names of the lord

[Guest guest]

This is the message of the Bible: that God graciously provided the gift of salvation through one supreme self-sacrifice in the person of the Lord Jesus. This fact has evoked the ire of many religious leaders who scream "exclusivist", "narrow-minded", "bigot", "intolerant", and other negative adjectives. One cannot deny that the Vedas also declare an exclusive way to the exclusive truth of salvation. At any rate, why don't we hurl these negative terms against a physician who diagnoses an illness and declares that only surgery will provide the cure?

 

Hindus and HK are taught that their religion is better because it recognizes all other religious beliefs. This, unfortunately, is not a valid idea, for the simple reason that Jesus said He is the only way to salvation: obviously Hinduism cannot accept this and other conflicting teachings at the same time. Furthermore, an eagerness to embrace every teaching that comes one's way does reflect one's uncertainty rather than the dubious quality of "universality" .

[yasodanandana]

your message is so full of prejudices that it is very boring for me to answer point to point... it demonstrates only that you know nothing of krsna consciousness and you are only using easy formulas perhaps given by the chiefs of your organization

 

i appreciate a religion from the behaviour of the practitioners and their ability to resolve the problems of the people and to give them relief from their doubts and fears

 

so stop this useless war, register with a name and try to give to the people positive and rational solutions to their questions

 

in this way, seeing that you with your lifestile and philosophy are so effective in helping yourself and the brothers, we will definitely accept you as a guide.. maybe abandoning our previous ones

 

now it seems that your only pleasure is fight, and this thing tells me a lot of things, you fit exactly in the "fanatic" cathegory, like other the 84762945 i have met in my life...

 

do something practical... i will follow you

[Kulapavana]

"The remarkable number of fulfilled prophecies in the Bible testify to its reliability" Name a few for me...

 

Face it: Bible is a very local scripture, with no concept of the world outside Middle East. Contrast that with the Vedas which talk in terms of planetary systems, multiple Universes and multiple time-space continuums within our Universe. There is plenty of archeological evidence supporting the accuracy of Egyptian writings as well, much more so than with respect to the Biblical writings, but you do not seem to be very excited about that. I will give you one example as to objective corroboration of the Vedas. Photos from space show the remains of stone bridge built by Ramacandra to reach the island of Lanka (Ceylon). And that happened over 2 millions years ago...