a-b-b-t, jesus cannot be discussed without conception

[mahak]

Haribol, I see that all the jesus talks have gone to hell, and this is obviously because there is no understanding of acintya bheda bheda tattwa.

 

Christians must grasp the fact in jesus' own words confirming that he is one in purpose with the father, yet the father is his master, not his equal, not himself.

 

In other words, jesus is god in quality, but not in quantity. But theres also the dual warnings in both occidental and oriental shastra, do not cast pearls bvefore swine, and it is offensive to attempt to instruct the faithless.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

<< and it is offensive to attempt to instruct the faithless. >>

 

i would say fruitless or useless.

upadesho hi moorkhaNam prakopAya na shantaye.

 

jai sri krishna! - madhav

 

[yasodanandana]

a devote wants to spread the holy name... what's the use to break our heads on this subject?

 

when the holy name will be sung in any town and village automatically and easily we will reconcile all religions in krsna consciousness in a way that will satisfy everyone

 

let us not be harekrishna/hindu integralists, we are not interested to explain all the details before introducing people to harinama samkirtana

 

the master is the representative of god, he speaks exactly the word of god, so he is as good as god.... that could be enough

 

if we do not explain with precision what is the Personality Of God in our culture, everything we say about jesus, buddah, mohammed or so will appear offensive to any spiritualist of another faith

 

so what is the use if the people with their faith destroyed by our vedic "superior" logic goes away upset and angry, without chanting harekrishna?

[Guest guest]

You remind me of a visit to Gempo Sensi a buddhist monk in Salt Lake City with a good international following.I had the oppertunity to ask him, "Is it hard teaching the Dharma with the temple hoovering over you", he replied " I visit with the president of the mormon church at least 6 times a year.The mormons are "good" people,but religous discussions are impossible with someone WHO THINKS THEIR RIGHT AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS WRONG"

[mahak]

Haribol, yasoda, hope you are well. It is true that it somehow seems fruitless to speak of "religion" to other "religionists". However, vaisnavism is no way connected with religion, and Lord Jesus Christ, a chief vaisnava, is also not connected to "religionists".

 

Religion is a term steeped with eccliastic principles, whereas the lovers of God require much more, a commitment, and what they can give is a personal relationship with the Supreme Lord, akin to what they have in the depths of their own beings.

 

Acintya bheda bheda tattwa cannot be studied by religionists, for their very existance depends on artificial deification of their gurus (not unlike the artificial deification, by some, of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.) In other words, the christian has put all his eggs in Paul's basket. The church has become the impersonal christ, and the son and the father have been merged in direct opposition to the teachings of simultaneous oneness and difference by Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

 

I cite the following:

<font color="blue">

(Matt 10:25-30)

Lord Jesus Christ Prayed, "I praise You, Abah (Father), Lord of heaven and earth, because You hide from the learned scholars while revealing Yourself to the poor and needy. You have turned everything over to the Son, and nobody knows the Son except the Father, nor does anybody know the Father except the Son and those with ears to hear from the Son and are pleasing to the Son. All you poor and needy, come to the Son and I will refresh you. Take My Yoke (Yoga) upon you and learn from Me, because I am meek and modest and you may confide in Me. My Yoke is comfortable and My load is light."</font color>

 

mahaksadasa comment: This is a lesson of "gurudeva patita pavana". Guru's yoke is Yoga, His relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and His desire is that the poor and needy share in the comfort of this relationship. The connection, yoke, yoga, linkage, is available to all, but only the vanquished can surrender. Those cursed with matter addiction (karmis), self-importance from academic success (jnanis), or mystic imitation of the Supreme Lord (yogis) do not attend the festivities of His calling, by their own foolish choices, thus Lord Jesus Christ is truely patita pavana, dearmost friend of those bereft of material fortune. This citation, also contained in extra-biblical writings, "Q", the "Gospel of the Savior", etc, is a clear description that religion is not offered, rather a special "relationship" can be had with the Supreme Being, just as the speaker (LJC) has such a relationship.

<font color="blue">

(Mark 11: 27-33)

"The scholars, elders and priests were questioning Lord Jesus Christ thus: "Who gives You the power to do these things?" He responded, "I will answer on the condition you answer whether the baptism of John is heaven-sent or of human origin?"

 

The church leaders conferred among themselves, deciding both possible answers threatened their positions. Heaven-sent meant they denied the Will of the Supreme, human origin meant that they were to be attacked by the people, so they diplomatically answered, "We cannot tell."

 

Lord Jesus Christ then said, "Then I won't tell you either."</font color>

 

mahaksadasa comment: The lesson here is that authority of Gurudeva is never discussed among the faithless.

 

<font color="blue">

(Matt 8: 5-13)

"As Lord Jesus Christ entered Capernaum, a Roman officer approached and requested His healing mercy. He agreed, and began following him, but the official said, "My Dear Lord, I have folks who are required to follow my orders, but You, Sir, are much beyond this realm. I do not deserve Your mercy, but, if You wish, say only the word and my son will be healed."

 

The Lord said to His followers, "I have not seen such trust in all of Judea. I predict that folks from East and West will dine with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, with My Father, but for those who may think that the Spiritual Realm belongs to a segment of society will be left in darkness. Go, My friend, your son is well and awaiting your arrival."</font color>

 

mahaksadasa comment: Sri Gurudeva comes to give Love of God to all without discrimination, he is never bound by sectarian ideas or imprisoned by the cultural bars of the ignorant. This popular story proves that Lord Jesus Christ does NOT authorize any church to place itself above others.

 

<font color="blue"> (Matt 16: 15-19)

"One day, Lord Jesus Christ asked His disciples, "Who do the people say that I am?" Looking to Simon Peter, He asked, "Who do you say I am?" Simon responded, "You are the annointed one, the Son of the Living Lord."

 

In response, The Lord said, "You are to be congratulated, Simon, son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father. You are the foundation of My mission that no one can overcome, and you possess the keys to both the eternal and temporal kingdoms. But you must not tell others that I am the annointed, for they must come to Me in the same way."</font color>

 

mahaksadasa comment: Empowerment of the disciple by the Supreme Lord Himself to have the ears to hear from His representative is purchased by the sincerity of the disciple alone. This verse contains a simple description of the simultaneous oneness and difference between Lord Jesus Christ and the Supreme Lord who had been delivered via his empowered representative.

 

<font color="blue">

(John 5: 60-65)

A certain teaching of Lord Jesus Christ caused some of the followers to question the content. Some grumbled that the teachings were offensive. The Lord knew who the grumblers were, and pointed out this fact: "This is why I told you. People cannot come to Me unless My Father has granted this."</font color>

 

mahaksadasa comment: After this event, many of those who were pretending to follow, attracted by populist notions, left Him for good. He then asked His apostles, "Do you want to leave Me too?" Their response was evidence that their attraction to guru was based on the prerequisite sincerity, that the Supreme Father Himself empowered not only His Son to be Guru, but also empowered the disciples to hear from Him. This verse also separates Son and Father, for without such separation of identity, there cannot be any following of Lord Jesus Christ no the Supreme Lord who has sent Him.

 

<font color="blue"> (John 7: 6-18)

"The Judeans, always criticizing Lord Jesus Christ, were quite amazed at His preaching skills. Some said, "Here is a good man", while others scoffed, calling Him a cheater. They were thus fighting among themselves about His position. He then delivered a powerful lecture that stunned them all. They asked Him, "You are uneducated, how can You be so articulate?" The Lord responded, "What I am teaching does not originate from Me but with He Who sent Me. Anyone who does the Will of My Father knows well enough whether this teaching originates with God or whether I am speaking on My own authority. All who speak on their own authority are after praise for themselves. But for he who is only concerned with the praise of the One Who sent Him-He is truthful, there is nothing false about Him."</font color>

 

mahaksadasa comment: This is a clear, truthful description of Lord Jesus Christ. He gives what He has been given, intact. His mastery is proven by His service, His divinity always as a divine servantr of who He wholeheartedly serves.

 

<font color="blue"> (John 8: 54)

"If I were to glorify Myself, that glory of Mine would mean nothing. But, in fact, My Father glorifies Me, and all who do His Will will see this relationship." </font color>

 

mahaksadasa comment: Lord Jesus Christ spoke these words to the masses who would do Him harm, those too conditioned to doing their own wills to be eligible for spiritual life. Similarly, if we so choose to remain entangled by our own desires, the relationship with God remains unavailable, the lack of sincerity prevents one from associating with lovers of God, and all "official" gurus such materialists may "honor", by show only, have no empowerment to deliver. A bonafide spiritual master and the bonafide disciple are never separated, any such separation exists only in the imagination of the pretenders.

 

The sadhu, Lord Jesus Christ, actually teaches us all, as does Srila Prabhupada and His bonafide disciples, that YOGA means relationship, devoid of any ideas of lonliness. There is no possibility of being alone if one sincerely attempts to do the Will of the Supreme Person.

 

If one denies that Jesus Christ taught yoga, taught that relationship with the Supreme Lord superceded all ideas of religion, such folks are not considered by Lord Jesus in his own words. He does not recognize those who deny the Father and the Sone as separate beings, yet the bond between the TWO (I always call it the "two thrones" theology) is the divinity that they share, that we can also share.

 

Krsna puts it best to Arjuna, "Give up all your religion and surrender to Me." This is what Krsna wants from us, this is what Lord Jesus and the gurus and sadhus recommend for fulfillment of the human gift.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

[krsna]

Jesus is sadhu and his teaching is Vedic:surrender to Krsna.

 

One who has faith is saved and one who is faithless is lost.