What is Enlightenment

[sandy]

The word "enlightenment" is the one which has been answered by various people differently. Is there any one who can make me understand about this in the present context and what it is actually?

[I_love_krishna_]

The attainment of the everlasting happiness is called enlightenment. The only way to gain it is through the loving service to the supreme.

 

 

[sandy]

Thanks..But tell me please How do you get it. Buddha got after several years of tapas. Do i have to wait for so many years and do tapas??

 

 

[dzimmerm]

You sound like the impatient person asking God for patience, right now!

 

I am not trying to be nasty. You sound like you would like enlightenment in as short a time as possible.

 

Perhaps you are enlightened already and you just have to spend years or decades before you gain the wisdom to understand you are already enlightened?

 

Your wish to be enlightened is the very best place to start from. There are many whose main form of enlightenment comes from the words, "Pull tab to open".

 

dzimmerm

 

 

[I_love_krishna_]

As I have said it in my earlier post... the only way to gain such enlightenment is through the loving service to God.

 

That means do everything you do for God and do nothing for yourself.

 

[livingentity]

to tell us what enlightenment means to you.

[livingentity]

I have been giving this question of yours some thought (watch out!).

 

If enlightenment was such an easy thing then we would all be enlightened and not sitting here on the forums trying to figure it all out.

 

Srila Prabhupada wrote volumes upon volumes of books for the enlightenment of humankind. He traveled the world many times over, spent many hours in classes, lectures, room talks etc talking to hundreds of people who were seeking enlightenment.

 

If it were so easy and instant to become enlightened - then Prabhupada would not have needed to work so hard to help all of us fallen spirit souls trapped in these material bodies.

 

It can take lifetimes to reach the state of enlightened pure devotee. Read the vedas, chant the Holy Names - learn to think of God at all moments. If you are not successful in this life then Krishna whose mercy is causeless and without limit will give you the opportunity to carry on where you left off in the following lives.

 

You know the saying, "Enlightenment was not built in a day."

 

 

[Guest guest]

It is realization of the truth

that we are the souls and not the body,

that souls and supersouls are eternal,

that no doubt remains in mind about any problem of life,

thatn one has no fear,

that one feels very close to god and eva communicates wit god,

that one goes above the four defects of humans, becomes free from the defects,

that maya cannot influence/control you,

 

etc.

 

gita is the best source for guide to living style

that can make one enlightened,

but guru is required.

 

jai sri krishna!

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yes you are right. I am being imptatient. I I am aware of this fact. ( I am being integral here) and I think being integral is the first step towards enlightenment.

 

I am not interested in reading volumes of teaching from various saints and sages. I want to be liberated from all my suferings. Financail, physical and spritual. I do not think that just by reading teachings one can get liberatd from all this.

 

I think you have to die for this. You means your so called 'self' If self is not there and there is no suffering. An I am looking for such kind of liberation. In my view real englightenment is nothing but liberation/freesom from sufferings.

 

cheers!!!!

 

 

 

[sandy]

Yes you are right. I am being imptatient. I I am aware of this fact. ( I am being integral here) and I think being integral is the first step towards enlightenment.

 

I am not interested in reading volumes of teaching from various saints and sages. I want to be liberated from all my suferings. Financail, physical and spritual. I do not think that just by reading teachings one can get liberatd from all this.

 

I think you have to die for this. You means your so called 'self' If self is not there and there is no suffering. An I am looking for such kind of liberation. In my view real englightenment is nothing but liberation/freesom from sufferings.

 

cheers!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

[I_love_krishna_]

Then you might want to go to this website www.yogavasistha.com

 

Over there, you can buy a book called Vasistha Yoga... it is on Amazone. com too. It won't be in your local book stores though for an unknown reason.

 

Take that book and read it. The speaker Valmiki, garauntees that you will reach the enlightened state at the end of that book.

 

 

 

[theist]

From what I have learned, gaining awareness of the true self is enlightenment.

 

When one comes to that realization the false self is dissolved. Just like when one who is searching for the truth comes to that truth then all the false theories automatically dissipate and one is then left fixed with the truth only.

 

Then even that can be deepened further by continuing on to realize the self's relationship with the Supreme Self. And that relationship is not a static one as moment by moment the unlimited Supreme Self reveals more to you of Himself in the course of rasa or relationship.

 

Not gaining an understanding of the true self and being satisfied with nonbeingness is a form of death, not enlightenment.

 

Hare Krsna

[I_love_krishna_]

Yes loss of self is death, but that is the sort of end Sandy is looking for. I hope sandy realizes that it is death when she comes to such a point.

 

[Guest guest]

is the ending of knowledge. Once you discard all concepts, including the idea of enlightenment, it's there. But you won't be!

[theist]

and the dawning of true knowing. It is not deep sleep, it is awakening.

[livingentity]

Do not dismiss the recorded teachings of the previous acaryas as trivial and not important - you can not understand through speculation and these teachings have been recorded for our eternal benefit. Reading these teachings is non-different from sitting in front of the acarya and listening to Him speak.

 

I am not interested in reading volumes of teaching from various saints and sages. I want to be liberated from all my suferings. Financail, physical and spritual. I do not think that just by reading teachings one can get liberatd from all this.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sandy,

 

Here is one perspective:

Tarditionally is is from the sanskrit mukti meaning liberation or deliverance. The next logical question would be liberation from what?

 

In the ancient sense it generally means from suffering. We don't often think of suffering as an opposite of enlightenment, but that is kind of a Hindu puzzle.

 

In some yogic states it is realized that ignorance is at the root of all suffering. Suffering is like the symptom of a disease called ignorance. Very simply suffering is in the perception of the fact rather than in the fact itself.

 

For example if suffering was in the poverty then all poor people would be totally suffering. Many are very happy who have few material posessions. If the suffering was in blindness itself then all blind people would be suffering. Some suffer from blindness. Others merely cannot see and do not suffer from the lack of site at all.

 

There is an enlightened community in the South Indian Mountains called Satyaloka. There is a very powerful sage there that the people call Kalki Bhagavan or Sri Mukteswara Bhagavan for his ability to give enlightenment and enlightenment experiences to others. The path employed there is the 7 fold path which interestingly, was the path of Siddhartha. Even though he taught the Octanga Marga or 8 fold path it was the 7 fold path on which he attained.

 

What is really amazing to many is initially those who go there are given enlightenment experiences right off the bat so they know what it is they are seeking and can realize the impact that broadscale enlightenment would have on the Earth.

 

The monastic order are quite intelligent people made up of many doctors, engineers & nuclear scientists.

 

This one act of giving these states is so unbelivably brilliant and compassionate. Many teachers will chatter on about enlightenment, and mystical experience and insight and unconditional love without giving these states to the devotees to experience even for a brief time.

 

That is very Kali Yuga almost cruel if you think about it. If they can give it they should give it. Otherwise it much like gurus sending devotees in search of a ruby with just a verbal description-no actual hands on experience of the ruby to back it up. All manner of shiney objects would be returned with and none of them rubies! Ceaseless debate and bickering over the nature of the real ruby inevitably would result.

 

So the experiences of enlightenment are given initially. It ends the argument and the debate and breaks all the concepts and beliefs about enlightenment.

 

The average garden variety of Kalki devotee has had more profound divine mystical experiences thatn any in the Old and New Testament combined and experiences of the great mystics such as Ramakrishna or the Aposotle Paul pale in comparison to what some of them have been experienced.

 

How can one describe it? It is alot like speaking about the taste of vanilla or the sound of snow. Or the feeling of hiccups. The feeling of wind. It is a biological process that does not appear to be reachable thru intellect or reasoning any more than laughter can. It is best experienced for oneself. It is easier to say what it is not rather than what is is I suppose.

 

Get on over there to Satyaloka and experience it for yourself!

 

 

[Guest guest]

Bolderdash. Buddha was not God realized.

[I_love_krishna_]

In reply to : "Bolderdash. Buddha was not God realized."

________

 

Buddha was God realized by my research into buddhism, however the grade and the depth of realization differs greatly to what depth krishna wants us to go into. Buddha believed that there is no God. He said everything ends in void and that the self itself is ultimately an illusion.

 

Even though this is true, it is not complete realization, but the death of the soul or the individualized self that has formed in brahman(krishna). Our essential nature is not to end our existence, but to serve the higher self and us being one with him/not being one with him depend solely on the will of the supreme alone.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Let me make sure I am understanding your post. Buddha was God realized according to your studies of Buddhism yet believed there was no God?

 

It is very rare that a being receives profound divine mystical experience (becomes God realized) and then believes there is no God.

 

There is no evidence that early shamanic enlightened cultures attained hapiness or enlightenment from loving service to the supreme. Nor is there any evidence that this was Gautama's Buddha's path to attainment. It is a stretch to say that service to the Supreme is the only way looking thru history in my opinion.

 

 

More than likely this Supreme-the legendary one omnipotent being (who obviously is not omnipotent in any religion as it, he or she seems quite impotent again ignorance what some call Satan and the darkest riddle of the Universe-the suffering of man) has either deliberatly or inadvertantly-it is anyone's guess contributed greatly to the suffering of man.

 

Once upon a time man's only fear was natural disasters, starvation and preditors. Now in addition he has God to worry about. Priests thruout the ages have menaced the masses and created 1000's of shoulds and should nots contributing to an inner world hell. The suffering of man that has become our very core.

 

It created this suffering-this whole damn mess and it needs to fix it. Will the Kalki avatar pull it off? If I were a gambler I would say the odds are 50/50. But then the world news comes on the radio and the odds seem more like 20/80.

 

Buddha did not pull it off, Krishna did not, Jesus Christ did not. Eons later man is still suffering. When asked how long before man will become enlightened Buddist leaders have responded "Eons". It already has been eons.

 

A mahavakya of the Kalki Avatart is in part, "At the end of he Golden Age there shall be no more human consciousness only Divine consciousness." If we assume and sit around thinking "Oh Goody Goody! Man is going to automatically be divine just by service to Him it is delusional. He is an avatar not a genie. Another interpretation of the mahavakya is if man does not make it there will be no more human consciousness.

 

Man and God are opposite ends (at this time) of the same reality. Man must do his part in seeking liberation from sorrow.

 

 

Siva was not in favor of this creation. He wept as he knew the suffering that would result. Jesus wept. And the beat goes on.........

 

 

[I_love_krishna_]

When I said the only perfect state of enlightenment is through the loving devotional service to the supreme, I based it on the life of narada and sukadeva Goswami.

 

Dear Guest : "It is very rare that a being receives profound divine mystical experience (becomes God realized) and then believes there is no God."

 

The fact that buddha believed that self is ultimately an illusion is true. It is in buddhist philosophy. Please go read about buddhism.

 

 

"Once upon a time man's only fear was natural disasters, starvation and preditors. Now in addition he has God to worry about."

 

God is something that protects people from suffering, not vice versa. It is to find your essential true nature , you need God. It is not something like you need to live with "God's rules". You can live with out them.

 

"Will the Kalki avatar pull it off?"

 

Kalki can pull it off, if you want him to pull it off, but you can pull it off yourself right now. You can end your suffering in this very moment.

 

"Buddha did not pull it off, Krishna did not, Jesus Christ did not. Eons later man is still suffering. "

 

The essential nature of humans is that they have freedom to do or not to do. It is in your hands, all those people whom you have mentioned can only tell you how to end your suffering.

 

"Man and God are opposite ends (at this time) of the same reality. Man must do his part in seeking liberation from sorrow."

 

Exactly my point, but I have to go now, bye...

[Eternity_Vision]

it is so easy to get enlightenment from a chat forum !. .

isn't that the case it's a state of being not exactly something that can be explained . . . it's probably best to experiance it to know what is is . .

Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's books are a great place to start .

 

[sandy]

yes u r right perhaps.

 

cheers!!

[livingentity]

Verse SB 1.1.14

apannah samsrtim ghoram

yan-nama vivaso grnan

tatah sadyo vimucyeta

yad bibheti svayam bhayam

 

TRANSLATION

Living beings who are entangled in the complicated meshes of birth and death can be freed immediately by even unconsciously chanting the holy name of Krsna, which is feared by fear personified.

 

Verse 1.8.36

srnvanti gayanti grnanty abhiksnasah

smaranti nandanti tavehitam janah

ta eva pasyanty acirena tavakam

bhava-pravahoparamam padambujam

 

TRANSLATION

O Krsna, those who continuously hear, chant and repeat Your transcendental activities, or take pleasure in others' doing so, certainly see Your lotus feet, which alone can stop the repetition of birth and death.

 

Verse 2.1.11

etan nirvidyamananam

icchatam akuto-bhayam

yoginam nrpa nirnitam

harer namanukirtanam

 

TRANSLATION

O King, constant chanting of the holy name of the Lord after the ways of the great authorities is the doubtless and fearless way of success for all, including those who are free from all material desires, those who are desirous of all material enjoyment, and also those who are self-satisfied by dint of transcendental knowledge.

 

 

[livingentity]

The portency of the offenseless chanting is so immense that even the most fallen and sinful person can obtain enormous spiritual benefits by enganging in this process.

 

SB 3.33.7

aho bata sva-paco 'to gariyan

yaj-jihvagre vartate nama tubhyam

tepus tapas te juhuvuh sasnur arya

brahmanucur nama grnanti ye te

 

TRANSALATION

Oh, how glorious are they whose tongues are chanting Your holy name! Even if born in the families of dog-eaters, such persons are worshipable. Persons who chant the holy name of Your Lordship must have executed all kinds of austerities and fire sacrifices and achieved all the good manners of the Aryans. To be chanting the holy name of Your Lordship, they must have bathed at holy places of pilgrimage, studied the Vedas and fulfilled everything required.

(Devahuti to Lord Kapiladev)

 

SB 6.3.31

tasmat sankirtanam visnor

jagan-mangalam amhasam

mahatam api kauravya

viddhy aikantika-niskrtam

 

TRANSLATION

My dear King, the chanting of the holy name of the Lord is able to uproot even the reactions of the greatest sins. Therefore the chanting of the sankirtana movement is the most auspicious activity in the entire universe. Please try to understand this so that others will take it seriously. (Sri Sukadeva Goswami to Maharaja Parikshita)

 

Brhad Vishnu Purana

namno hi yavati saktih

papa-nirarane hareh

tavat kartum na saknoti

patakam pataki narah

 

TRANSLATION

Simply by chanting the holy name of Hari, a sinful man can counteract the reactions of more sins than he is able to commit.