sleepingjiva Posted September 8, 2003 Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 Hey!!! All grace to all the devotees and symphatizers with Krishna consciousness! I was just wondering there are many references in Srila Prabhupada's books about the difference between impersonal and personal religious principle and the main thing is that personalist believe in individuality of soul. I'd like to know how could you charecterize this individuality and what does it consist in regarding the fact that after departure from gross material body there is no memory about the previous life. Or what is the behaviour of jiva in Krishna's Abode? thanks /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted September 8, 2003 Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 There is memory. Its just hard to consciously access. We also can't usually remember our time in the womb or even our first days after birthday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauracandra Posted September 8, 2003 Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 What I've never quite understood is the functionality of the indivisible soul. If it is indivisible then what is the functional use of eyes, arms, legs. If the soul has form, the form serves a function. Why would a soul need hair. Or does the soul have hair? I probably never will understand it, but hopefully one day will find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted September 8, 2003 Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 We can remember our first days of life and also the life in the womb. Studies show that it is possible after hypnosis ... the subconscious mind is opened and then the hypnotist will take it to his/her mother's womb. Then , the subconscious mind... acting like a baby will talk about its days in the womb. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I have seen this in discovery channel shows ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armisael108 Posted September 8, 2003 Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 The individual soul acts as a servant of Krishna in personalism; for impersonalism the individuality of the soul is illusion, all souls are supposed to be God. We have a memory of previous birth, but not in the state you may want it. The reason your body is in this way is due to that karmic memory. What we call memory is simply accumulated karma. Your material personality is some memory from past lives. True memory is everlasting and it is sourced from Krishna where He says in Bhagavad-gita: "I'm am dwelling in the hearts of all living beings, from Me comes knowledge, rememberance and forgetfulness." (BG 15.15) Our behavior in Krishnaloka is to serve Krishna in His pastimes for His enjoyment. That is our true nature: "jivera svarupa haya krsnera nitya dasa" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armisael108 Posted September 8, 2003 Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 Depends on your original form in relation to Krishna. Some soul are blades of grass in Goloka-vrindavana, some are gopis, some are cows, some are rocks, etc. But like Prabhupada said, all are fully conscious of their individual service to Krishna. (I can't say I understand this but I have faith in what Prabhupada said) In the spiritual world the soul IS the body. (You know, there is a place in the scriptures where it is said that the senses can act as other senses in the spiritual world) Contrarely to the soul in the conditioned state. So a soul can have hair if his eternal form is a form with hair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepingjiva Posted September 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 it's true that people with a help of holotrophic breathing can experience their own birth and the time before. This guy had come to the point, where he could set a state of mind, which goes into previous lives. He wrote several books about it and he's a profound scientist(maybe this isn't the right word anymore). He actually started with LSD experiments, but after it was banned, he developed this technique to keep body healthy /images/graemlins/smile.gif I've never tried it, but I'm wondering how it would be. this is pretty huge discovery, but people apparently don't give a damn. it was destined for treatment of mental illnesses, but then it showed up, that maybe we r all crazy, because we simply forgot about some episodes of our lives and it still figure in our subconsciousness. this is very alike Krishna teachings, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somesh Kumar Posted September 8, 2003 Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 I'd like to know how could you charecterize this individuality The individuality is characterised on the basis of what Krishna told to Arjuna. Krishna said: Na TvEvaaham Jaatu Naasham Na Tvam Neme Janaadhipah Na Chaiva Na Bhavishyaamah Sarve Vayah Atah Param. Krishna says that "There was never a time when I did not exist, nor these Kings nor you, O Arjuna!" Srila Prabhupada gives a very good example stating that just like the hand of a cloth is based on we possesing the hand, similarly the presence of the material body indicates that the existence of the spiritual body which is beyond matter which is "Sachchidaananda" meaning that it is full of Truth, Knowledge and Bliss. The material body is characterised by the six changes technically called "Shad-Vikara" That is it - 1) takes birth 2) grows 3) stays for some time 4) produces some bye-products 5) dwindles And finally... 6) vanishes. But soul is never effected by these changes. There's gross body made of the five elements Earth, water, fire, air and ether and then there's a subtle body made of mind, intelligence and false ego. And then above that is the Soul. So at the time of death the gross body is burned, but according to the desires in the subtle body at the time of death the Soul gets embodied. If at the time of death one is fortunate enough to think of Krishna then that soul reaches Krishna's abode. As Krishna says: Anta Kaale Cha Maam Eva Smaran Muktva Kalevaram Yah Prayaati Sa Mad Bhaavam Yaati Naasti Atra Samshaya. what does it consist in regarding the fact that after departure from gross material body there is no memory about the previous life As Krishna says: Sarvasya Chaaham Hrdi Sannivishtah Mattah Smrtir Jnyanam Apohanam Cha. "I am situated in the heart of all the living entities and due to Me there's rememberance, knowledge and forgetfulness" Or what is the behaviour of jiva in Krishna's Abode Behaviour of jiva in Krishna's abode is to serve Krishna in whatever way he likes! Hope this helps... /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepingjiva Posted September 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 thanks for your very detailed answer!! is it also that we can decide, we have a choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somesh Kumar Posted September 9, 2003 Report Share Posted September 9, 2003 is it also that we can decide, we have a choice. There's is a little independence given to the living entity because love cannot be forced on anyone. Misuse of this independence causes the living entity to struggle in this material universe as Krishna says: Mamaivamsho Jiva Loka Jiva Bhutah Sanaatanah Manah Shashtani Indriyaani Prakrti Sthaani Karshati. "The living entities are my eternal part and parcels and they are struggling in the material world with the six senses including the mind." But when the living entity realises his position as the eternal servitor of Krishna and starts serving Krishna starting with the tongue by chanting "Hare Krishna" Mahaa-mantra then slowly the material covering is removed. And finally when the devotee reaches the perfectional stage, his eternal relationship with Krishna is revealed to him by the causeless mercy of Krishna! Hope this helps /images/graemlins/smile.gif Hare Krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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