On the "Hare Krishna Hare Rama" Maha Mantra

[Guest guest]

Why does the Maha mantra mentions the name of Sri Rama next to the name of Sri Krishna? What is the relation from Ramayana to the Gita in this context? They are both purna avatara.. why is it neccesary to chant both names.. in the shastras the number 2 is usually related to "shiva and shakti" Radha & Krishna, Shiva and Parvati, etc etc Man and woman.. should we interpret Shri Rama as feminine in this maha mantra compared to Shri Krishna? Why do many people like the ones from icskon often do not deepen their knowledge of Ramayana..if the weight in the maha mantra of Shri Rama and Shri Krishna is excactly the same?

 

I havent once found a isckonner or Gaudiya-person quoting from the ramayana ...but however they daily recite the holy name of Shri Raamji. If you want to get total benefit of the beejakshara of teh maha mantra .. then one should study Ramayana also.. then again some people who chant this great and beautiful mantra look down on the great epic "Ramayana" and theat is as second hand compared to the Gita.

 

One can say ..yes .. Ramayana is important, but nobody qoutes from it.. that alone says enough..i think.. or am i wrong?

 

If i have said something inappropiate ..please accept my appology, i'm just a sadhaka..

 

 

 

 

Please give comments or first thoughts..

 

 

Jaya Guru Datta

Winand

[Guest guest]

Rama is to rejoice. Hare= feminine form of krishna or Radha.

 

We are asking Radha to take us to krishna so that he can rejoice/ we can rejoice by him rejoicing.

 

Rama does not mean here Lord Rama, even though it is thought so by most people. The Maha Mantra comes from the vedas... which were written before the time of Sri Rama.

 

 

I_love_krishna_

[Winand]

The Maha Mantra comes from the 'Kali Santarana Upanishad' that is not the same as one of the 4 Vedas.

 

There it says that it is "Shri Rama" who is glorified an sung to..!!!

 

Hare means glorify ~!~

 

One should NOT make different meanings and it is my interpretation that one should know what one is singing! ... Then if the Maha Mantra comes from the Upnishads, then why are the isckonners not scolars in Upnishads???? Actually the maha mantra isnt mentioned in the Gita.. So studying upnishads would be more logical.

 

Please also comment on the number 2 aspect.

 

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna (2)

Krishna Krishna Hare Hare(2)

Hare Rama Hare Rama (2)

Rama Rama Hare Hare (2)

 

Radha Krishna (2)

Shiva Shakti (2)

Hamsa Soham (2)

Shiva Parvati (2)

Vishnu Laxmie (2)

Etc

[yasodanandana]

we are (maybe) not so expert in ramayana basically because srila prabhupada had no time to translate it and because he gave first the more important books... gita, bhagavat purana, bhakti rasamrita sindhu, chaitanya charitamrita

 

as stated in the gita and as said by vaishnava acharyas krsna is the supreme personality of godhead and rama is a purna avatara, so, even if rama can bring ourselves in the spiritual world, vaishnava acharyas choose to focus more on krsna where all the rasas are present at the highest level and radha who has the highest level of devotion without even a little atom of interest in personal advantage, material or even spiritual (liberation, vaikunta and so on)

 

of course this has not to be taken as an offence to Lord Ramachandra, personally i have read some translations and i will very glad to find one edition translated and commented by a bona fide vaishnava

[livingentity]

but I prefer to go to the spiritual master for explanations and here is Srila Prabhupada on chanting Hare Krsna:

 

Chanting the transcendental vibration Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare is the sublime method for reviving our transcendental consciousness, or Krishna consciousness. As living spiritual souls, we are all originally Krishna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness is now polluted by the material atmosphere, called maya, or illusion. And what is that illusion? The illusion is that we are all trying to be lords of material nature, while actually we are under the grip of her stringent laws. When a servant artificially tries to imitate the all powerful master, he is said to be in illusion. We are trying to exploit the resources of material nature, but actually we are becoming ever more dependant on her. This illusory struggle against material nature can be stopped at once by revival of our eternal Krishna consciousness.

 

Krishna consciousness is not an artificial imposition on the mind. This consciousness is the original energy of the living entity. When we hear and chant the transcendental vibration Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, this consciousness is revived. This simplest method of meditation is recommended by learned authorities for this age. By practical experience also, one can perceive that by chanting this maha-mantra, or the Great Chant for Deliverance, one at once feels transcendental ecstasy coming through from the spiritual stratum.

 

In the material concept of life we are busy in the matter of sense gratification, as if we were in the lower animal stage. A little elevated from this status of sense gratification, one engages in mental speculation for the purpose of getting out of the material clutches. A little elevated from this speculative status, when one is intelligent enough, one tries to find out the supreme cause of all causes, within and without. And when one is factually on the plane of spiritual understanding, surpassing the stages of sense, mind, and intelligence, one is situated on the transcendental plane. The chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra is directly enacted from this spiritual platform, and thus this sound vibration surpasses all lower strata of consciousness-namely sensual, mental and intellectual.

 

There is no need, therefore, to understand the language of the mantra, nor is there any need of any mental speculation or intellectual adjustment for chanting this maha-mantra. It springs automatically from the spiritual platform, and thus anyone can take part in the chanting and dancing. Of course, for one who is too much entangled in material life, it takes a little more time to come to the standard point, but even such a materially engrossed person is very quickly raised to the spiritual platform. When the mantra is chanted by a pure devotee of the Lord, it has the greatest effect on hearers, and therefore this chanting should be heard from the lips of a pure devotee of the Lord, so that immediate effects can be achieved. As far as possible, chanting from the lips of nondevotees should be avoided, just as one would avoid milk touched by the lips of a serpent because it has poisonous effects.

 

<font color="red">The word Hara is a form of addressing the energy of the Lord, and the words Krishna and Rama (which mean "the highest pleasure eternal") are forms of addressing the Lord Himself. Hara is the supreme pleasure energy of the Lord, and when addressed as Hare in the vocative, She helps us to reach the Supreme Lord. </font color>

 

The material energy, called maya, is also of the multienergies of the Lord, and we, the living entities, are the marginal energy of the Lord. The living entities are described as superior to the material energy. When this superior energy is in contact with the inferior energy, an incompatible situation arises, but when the superior marginal energy is in contact with the spiritual energy, Hara, the living entity is established in his happy, normal condition.

 

These three words, namely Hare, Krishna and Rama, are the transcendental seeds of the maha-mantra. The chanting is a spiritual call for the Lord and His internal energy Hara to protect the conditioned soul. This chanting is exactly like the genuine cry of a child for its mother. Mother Hara helps the devotee achieve the grace of the Supreme Father, Hari or Krishna, and the Lord reveals Himself to the devotee who chants this mantra sincerely.

 

Therefore no other means of spiritual realization is as effective in the age of quarrel and hypocrisy as the chanting of the maha-mantra: Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

 

A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

[yasodanandana]

hare = the potency of love to krsna... radhe.. the supreme ATTRACTED

 

krsna = the supreme personality of godhead, the supreme ATTRACTIVE

 

rama = krsna as the source of spiritual BLISS

 

...

 

mahamantra works wery well even if we do not know the meaning, he is supreme, self sufficient and omnipotent, he's not subjected to our understanding

[yasodanandana]

of course my message offer his prostrated obeisances to the commentary of srila bhaktivedanta swami prabhupada

[Winand]

Hare still means to glorify, only S.P.-ji gives a more illustrated definition /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

"Actually Sri Raamji and Shri Krishna Bhagvan are excactly the same thay are both PURNA AVATARA." I would be suprised if you could find a S.P.-ji qoute which would decline the above statement.

 

By simply chanting the name "Raam" one can find liberation.....

[theist]

Prabhupada said it can refer to either Balarama or Ramachandra it doesn't matter.

 

This mantra is eternal.

 

I don't think we should see it as a static thing. Nor should we impose our minds meanings onto it.

 

One person may be chanting it with more internal emphasis on the name Rama and thinking of Ramachandra. Another Balarama. Who could say this would be wrong.

 

I have also heard more esoteric(to me) explanations where the whole mantra is understood as Radha/Krsna lila.

 

I don't see these as contradictions.

[livingentity]

Just chant Hare Krishna <MARQUEE WIDTH="20%">

and your life will be sublime!</MARQUEE>

[theist]

how did you do that? very cool

[Guest guest]

Can you teach me how to do that please

 

I_L_K

 

 

[livingentity]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

 

<MARQUEE BEHAVIOR=ALTERNATE>/images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif</marquee>

 

[livingentity]

could not resist teasing a bit.

 

I used html codes which are really quite easy. Here is a link to a nice site that has some to use.

http://www.faqs.org/docs/htmltut/index.html

 

Look under the link for "weird tags" to find marquee codes.

 

I tried to show the codes for this but it just comes out with the marquee like in my post. Anyway, it is a marquee code.

 

 

[Winand]

Static? dear mister.. if you look at 1 + 1 = 2 one can see that the 1's are identical.. it is not a static or dynamic thing or something it is just evident from the mantra.. there are however some writings on the syllables.. but there are two names given equal importance.

 

 

Actually in the original source the mantra =

 

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

 

So the isckonners have flipped it around, but the Shri Rama purna avatara was before the Shri Krishna avatara so as for why the flipping around?????????

 

I think the isconners have very good love for their isht deva.. this is a very good thing ..but when people are saying that nothing excists but my isht deva ..then the wrong path is being persued... according to me..

 

 

I am not a jivan muktha .. i only give my oppinion.. please be not offended by my writings..

 

 

Hare Krishna!

Winand.

[livingentity]

another nice positive thread (and this one on the glories of chanting the holy names of the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna) has very quickly fallen into the realm of us vs them.

 

The funny thing is that most of us do not realize it is a contest until "them" feels it necessary to inform us that it is.

 

(whiny little voice)Why can't we all just get aloooonng?

 

Question - what is a isconner? What is a isckonner?

[yasodanandana]

you are right, rama is also ramachandra... but it is also very easy to find a conciliation... all the avataras are manifestation of balarama.. so balarama and ramachandra are very near

 

the esoteric explanation i imagine that is that they are all names of radha krishna... and i have already said it

 

i have seen and heard many in vrindavan chant in kirtans RADHE KRSNA ,RADHE KRSNA , KRSNA KRSNA, RADHE RADHE.... and hare is radhe

 

of course if we cannot explain that saying that ramachandra is an avatara of krishna is not an offence, everything will seem sectarian to the devotees of sri ram

[yasodanandana]

you can chant putting first rama or krsna... no problem..

 

"So the isckonners have flipped it around, but the Shri Rama purna avatara was before the Shri Krishna avatara so as for why the flipping around?????????"

 

if sri rama and sri krsna both are avatara at the same "level" of manifestation, the thing that they are avatara, or "emanated" remains... who is the source of both?

[Govindaram]

<H2>

</MARQUEE><MARQUEE WIDTH="60%"> <font color="red"> Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare/ <font color="blue"> Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare </font color> </font color> </MARQUEE><MARQUEE WIDTH="20%">

<font color="orange"> All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! </font color> </MARQUEE></H2>

 

 

 

<MARQUEE>

</MARQUEE>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[I_love_krishna_]

sigh, i have a poor knowledge on html coding...

[I_love_krishna_]

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

 

Is the same thing as :

 

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

 

You have to realize that Rama is not superior to krishna because in any given instance, they are the same thing. x=x, x can never be greater than x.

 

Winand: "I think the isconners have very good love for their isht deva.. this is a very good thing ..but when people are saying that nothing excists but my isht deva ..then the wrong path is being persued... according to me.."

 

The reason we have bhakthi is to see that which truly exists.

 

That which exists is the almighty and he has many names. So my dear friend, whether you worship him as Krishna, Rama, Narasimha or something else... it does not matter because he is the same thing.

 

x= integers , integers=x

 

Forgive my poor math models, but they are just used to explain the point that I was trying to make.

[Winand]

Yes,...

 

But in the Upnishads it says Rama first because Ramas avatara was first.. so that is more logical.. for example: 1pm and 2 pm are both times of day.. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

 

What do you think on the number 2 discussion?

 

the number 2 is associated with shiva and shakti

vishnu and laxmie Radha and krishna

 

I heard a senior devotee from isckon say that compared to Krishna Shri Rama should be seen as feminine, how do you think about this.. also in relation to the maha mantra and with the purpose of getting the max out of the hidden beejaksharas..

 

 

Does anyone has quotes on this?

 

 

Jaya Shri devi !!

Winand.

[theist]

I see we have a couple here who are into showing off their hmlt(or is that htlm?) skills.

 

OK I'll go to that page and someday when you are not expecting I will manifest my skills in an astonishing manner. BEHOLD.....

 

Thanks for the link LE /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[theist]

 

I heard a senior devotee from isckon say that compared to Krishna Shri Rama should be seen as feminine, how do you think about this..

 

 

You should ask him I think. I have never heard that. If you are more attracted to Ramachandra then let no one stop you.

[Winand]

I have asked her ..otherwise i wouldnt know of it .. dummy /images/graemlins/wink.gif