karma and its workings

[VISHWAJEET]

MY QUESTION IS RELATED TO THE INTRICATE WORKINGS OF KARMA.

 

IF ONE COMMITS A SIN AND LATER GENUINELY REGRETS HAVING COMMITTED THE SINFUL ACT,WILL ONE BE FORGIVEN ?

OR IS IT THAT ONE HAS TO SUFER THE CONSEQUENCES NO MATTER HOW MUCH REMORSE THAT PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL FEELS?

PLEASE CLARIFY MY DOUBTS IN THIS REGARD.

[Myra]

Hello Vishwajeet,

 

It is written in 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He(God) is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." God's words are true.

 

Acceptance of your sins and confess them shows humility. God exalted those who humble themselves before God. One step you made for God, he makes a hundred steps towards you.

 

From the above verse, the first thing we see is that we must confess our sins. We must recognize where we have erred, and hurt God by our actions. When confessing your sins to God, be as specific as you can. General confessions do very little to convict of sin, or to convince God of your seriousness, or to bring healing in those areas.

 

Isaiah 55:7 "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon."

 

Ezekiel 18:21, "But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die."

 

Our next step in receiving forgiveness, is to turn from our wicked ways and change them. We may struggle with a certain sin, but if our intent is truly to change our ways and overcome that sin, God will give us the grace to do it. Many want to receive forgiveness from God without changing their ways. God knows the difference between those who are sincere and those who are using Him to temporarily ease their conscience. He is not mocked or deceived. If one comes to him in sorrow, humility and sincerity, His grace is abundant. However, He has little patience for those who would abuse His mercy. Search your heart and ask God to give you the grace for true repentance, and the power of the Holy Spirit to make the changes you need to do. His greatest joy is to help those who repent in sincerity.

 

This should include asking forgiveness of those you have wronged and making restitution to them. True repentance will always be accompanied by corresponding actions.

 

Along these lines, the Scriptures also makes it clear that we are to "make right" any situations where we have failed in our responsibilities to others.

 

Matthew 5:23-25 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

 

If we are sincere in our repentance we must be willing to pay the penalty for our crimes(in Vedas this is called karma) against others. This could include restoration of any goods, monies, or services that were taken wrongfully, (or never given at all, if we owed them). The Lord says to "agree with our adversary." If we are in dispute with someone, that means we must admit to what we have done and quit trying to defend ourselves. If we are in the wrong (even partially) it is better to take responsibility for it, than to argue for our rights.

 

Matthew 6:14-15, "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

 

Mark 11:25-26 "And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him and let it drop--leave it, let it go--in order that your Father Who is in heaven may also forgive you your (own) failings and shortcomings and let them drop. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your failings and shortcomings."

 

These verses are perhaps some of the least applied Scriptures in the Kingdom of God. Somehow, many of us are deceived into thinking that we do not have to take them literally. However, Jesus emphasized this principal over and over again in His parables and teachings. If we receive God's forgiveness, it is our duty to forgive those who have wronged us. The two are inseparable. Jesus said plainly that God will not forgive us, if we do not forgive others. Many people are full of condemnation and guilt because they still feel the weight of their sins, even though they've asked God to forgive them. Could it be that they have not been able to receive God's forgiveness because they still have bitterness in their own hearts toward others? Sometimes, we may carry bitterness and hurt so long, that we no longer even recognize it as a problem. It becomes a part of our very nature. We may not scheme for revenge, but our souls are clouded with a quiet, persistent bitterness.

 

Some of us have been betrayed in devastating ways, and have suffered profoundly at the hand of abusive people. Others have been horribly mistreated by those of other races, nations, and religions. If you are suffering with deep unhealed wounds, know the Lord has also been hurt with your pain. He loves you and wants to heal you. It is because of His great love for you that He is calling you to forgive. It is your only release from the emotional prison that you are now in.

 

Matthew 5:44-48: "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? Do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

 

Please know this: If you are crying out to Him for forgiveness, it is only because He has given you the grace to do so--and He WILL answer your heart's cry. If you were past the point of no return, you wouldn't even care about the concept of forgiveness. It is only because you belong to the Lord that you are still seeking Him.

 

I hope this helps you even a little.

 

There are lots in here who can explain more in a Vedic way.

 

God Loves you!

 

Myra

 

[I_love_krishna_]

I think krishna forgives one who sins and then suffers the guilt, but I think if the guilt is not really "pure" guilt then you suffer karma.

 

But I don't think you should be afraid of your past bad karma, because they help you in seeing the real nature of this world, which is failure, pain and misery.

 

So, sins help us in search for the almighty... (maya is also a servant of Krishna)

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

IF ONE COMMITS A SIN AND LATER GENUINELY REGRETS HAVING COMMITTED THE SINFUL ACT,WILL ONE BE FORGIVEN ?

 

the problem is that all the material world is tightly entangled together

 

i kill an ant... maybe the father of that ant forgives me

 

but...

 

the ants are missing a worker, they collect less food

they became more weak and the queen has less food and generates less ants

the birds have less ants to eat and some die

the hawks who eat little birds .. some die

the snakes, who are food for hawks, grow in number

a snake bites a man and this man die

this man was mantaining a family... etc etc

 

so, it is not possible to cut the consequences of our acts, they influence all the world and universe

 

 

we are called "eternally conditioned", it is not possible to get out of this universe (=act then pay) without the help of krsna

[yasodanandana]

sorry

[theist]

Karmic bondage is so complete. Even as we become aware of some sin we committed we are unconsciously committing more.

 

Instead of trying to become aware of each sin indepedently and petitioning the Lord for forgiveness of that sin, it will be best if we just surrender wholesale to the Supreme Lord and learn to act for only His interest only.

 

Of course, that means as we begin we will have to work to stop all that we know to be gross sins as they interfer with the surrendering process, but if our focus is more on how to work to please Krsna than it is to avoid sinful reactions the ultimate result will come to be living a life free from sinful reactions past present and future fo a start, with it all culminating in Krsna preme by the Lord's grace and protection.

 

----------------------------

 

TRANSLATION Bhagavad-gita 18.66

 

Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.

 

PURPORT

The Lord has described various kinds of knowledge and processes of religion—knowledge of the Supreme Brahman, knowledge of the Supersoul, knowledge of the different types of orders and statuses of social life, knowledge of the renounced order of life, knowledge of nonattachment, sense and mind control, meditation, etc. He has described in so many ways different types of religion. Now, in summarizing Bhagavad-gétä, the Lord says that Arjuna should give up all the processes that have been explained to him; he should simply surrender to Krsna. That surrender will save him from all kinds of sinful reactions, for the Lord personally promises to protect him.

In the Seventh Chapter it was said that only one who has become free from all sinful reactions can take to the worship of Lord Krsna. Thus one may think that unless he is free from all sinful reactions he cannot take to the surrendering process. To such doubts it is here said that even if one is not free from all sinful reactions, simply by the process of surrendering to Sri Krsna he is automatically freed. There is no need of strenuous effort to free oneself from sinful reactions. One should unhesitatingly accept Krsna as the supreme savior of all living entities. With faith and love, one should surrender unto Him.

The process of surrender to Krsna is described in the Hari-bhakti-viläsa (11.676):

änukülyasya saìkalpaù

prätikülyasya varjanam

rakñiñyatéti viçväso

goptåtve varanaà tathä

ätma-nikñepa-kärpaëye

ñaò-vidhä çaraëägatiù

 

According to the devotional process, one should simply accept such religious principles that will lead ultimately to the devotional service of the Lord. One may perform a particular occupational duty according to his position in the social order, but if by executing his duty one does not come to the point of Krsna consciousness, all his activities are in vain. Anything that does not lead to the perfectional stage of Krsna consciousness should be avoided. One should be confident that in all circumstances Kåñëa will protect him from all difficulties. There is no need of thinking how one should keep the body and soul together. Krsna will see to that. One should always think himself helpless and should consider Krsna the only basis for his progress in life. As soon as one seriously engages himself in devotional service to the Lord in full Krsna consciousness, at once he becomes freed from all contamination of material nature. There are different processes of religion and purificatory processes by cultivation of knowledge, meditation in the mystic yoga system, etc., but one who surrenders unto Krsna does not have to execute so many methods. That simple surrender unto Krsna will save him from unnecessarily wasting time. One can thus make all progress at once and be freed from all sinful reactions.

One should be attracted by the beautiful vision of Krsna. His name is Krsna because He is all-attractive. One who becomes attracted by the beautiful, all-powerful, omnipotent vision of Krsna is fortunate. There are different kinds of transcendentalists—some of them are attached to the impersonal Brahman vision, some of them are attracted by the Supersoul feature, etc., but one who is attracted to the personal feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and, above all, one who is attracted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead as Krsna Himself, is the most perfect transcendentalist. In other words, devotional service to Krsna, in full consciousness, is the most confidential part of knowledge, and this is the essence of the whole Bhagavad-gétä. Karma-yogés, empiric philosophers, mystics and devotees are all called transcendentalists, but one who is a pure devotee is the best of all. The particular words used here, mä çucaù, “Don’t fear, don’t hesitate, don’t worry,” are very significant. One may be perplexed as to how one can give up all kinds of religious forms and simply surrender unto Krsna, but such worry is useless.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Although Christians beleive in forgiving by God, which actually makes many people to commit mistakes with the hope of getting forgiven, i dont beleive in that. As per Hindu shastras, the actual realization comes only when we pay for it through our sufferings in the way one made other to suffer emotionally or physically. To my knowledge, this is true which i have seen practically also and also felt the same. So its better not to commit mistakes. If commited, better sincerely apologise to the individual, and see that you dont repeat it next time which is very important aspect of self realization.

[Guest guest]

Man is subjected to 72 different types of Karma. Some of whom he can eliminate by a tool called Awareness. Through this tool he can be kept alart about the sin he has committed and internally apologise to the person he has heart.Similarly, if he has been heart by any one, he should be able to to forgive and donot keep any illfeeling for the person. Through this process one can eliminate few Karma. But to be rid of law of Karma altogather, one has to come to a stage of Jiban Mukti, which one can now get through Mukti Diksha by Bhagban Kalki at Golden City, Vardhapalan.

 

Das

[yasodanandana]

"Although Christians beleive in forgiving by God....."

we also believe in this... if we surrender, we have no more to pay for all our past debts, krishna forgive us!!

 

 

"which actually makes many people to commit mistakes with the hope of getting forgiven"

yes.. we do not believe this, it is an offence to the mahamantra ... : "committing sins relying on the mahamantra to getting forgiven"

[Guest guest]

This is not offense to chanting Mahamanthra or chanting God's name. For whatever sin or hurtful deeds one commits, God does not accept the individual just because that person is chanting His name and doing mistake on otherside. One has to really stop commiting any sin anymore totally, and this is what is actually advised by saying that if we chant God's names we are removed of our sins. Primarily it implies that by chanting His names we get purified in mind out of which we no more commit any sin or mistakes or hurtful deeds to others. It does not mean superficially, but spiritually a person is assumed to be good. On the other hand, if one chants hara rama,hare krishna, namo narayana on one side and be arrogant and hurt others, he will certainly pay for his arrogance. Please dont live in delusion thinking that Krishna will forgive everything. In that case, ravana was also a devotee of God, but he was not helped. If you look back in the puranas, most of the evil characters are also devotees of some God, but God Himself finally finish them off. So one has to remain good by all means from heart to get the blessings of God.

 

[gHari]

The karmic pushes required to get us straight can be much more gentle if we are receptive to them. If we are out of control or obstinate then they must be harsher to get our attention and effect the required character changes.

 

If we have cured the problem, then there is no need for correction. If the problem is deeper than our "Forgive me Father for I have sinned", then correction is still required and will be levied by material nature in due course.

 

The best way is to continue working on ourselves as best as possible. By watering the root, all the leaves and branches are benefitted. These sins or problems with our character can best be cured by watering the root of existence, Sri Krsna, God. Then the window to the soul will be as clean as it should be; and if any adjustment is still required, we can be corrected with the slightest nudge.

 

Otherwise, we have to reap what we sow, in order to learn, rehabilitate, and eventually become fit for God's Kingdom.

 

gHari

[Guest guest]

YOu have nicely and beautifully said what i mentioned in raw words previous to your post

 

[yasodanandana]

"This is not offense to chanting Mahamanthra or chanting God's name"

-offence means that the advantage of chanting is almost nullified, so we are agree, if we commit sins thinking that we will be purified by chanting or praying.. this will not work

 

"One has to really stop commiting any sin anymore totally, and this is what is actually advised by saying that if we chant God's names we are removed of our sins"

-yes and no.... because the inaction is not possible.. at every breath we kill millions of entities even if we are devotees.

 

But, if we live for Krsna, for spreading his mahamantra.. if we are really loving him and behaving like a spiritualist, a vaishnava.. our occasional minor sins done for preaching are forgiven

 

so with krsna we will get a pure behaviour

and

we will not be able to be pure and "sinless" without krsna

 

"Please dont live in delusion thinking that Krishna will forgive everything."

-if you read my messages, even if written in a strange language, you will understand that this is not my opinion

 

"So one has to remain good by all means from heart to get the blessings of God"

-and : "so one has to get the blessings of god to remain good by all means!!!"

 

the thing is that it is not possible to get out from karma (= interrupt births and deaths) without the help of god

 

without krsna is not possible to avoid sins and we have to be more moral and good as we can if we want to obtain krsna, .... for this purpose one promise at the initiation to follow four regulative principles

 

i think we are saying the same thing from two point of views

 

[Guest guest]

Very nice post:

---------------------------

The karmic pushes required to get us straight can be much more gentle if we are receptive to them. If we are out of control or obstinate then they must be harsher to get our attention and effect the required character changes.

-----------

 

 

The consequences of our actions that propel our destiny forward that may give us the hint that actually God cares about us more than we will ever know.As a loving parent will attentively correct the errant child by gentle reproof or if needed a stern reprimand for the healthy progressive development of the child.

 

gopaldas

[Guest guest]

By merely asking for fogiveness, God cannot nullify the Karmic reactions, though He would help the devotee not to commmit the similar mistakes in the future. However, the Karma once generated, continues to haunt the person, until an opportune moment, when the Karmic fruit ripens, and the doer receives the reaction. How can God forgive every evil action, by merely feeling sorry for the action? as someone has suffered due to our actions somewhere. Every Karma must be paid for. However, it is not exactly possible to predict, what kind of reaction would be generated for a specific Karma.

[Guest guest]

I very much agree with you and this is my opinion too. Its also explained in Mahabaratha by Vyasa in good number of incidents.

Dronocharya although a revered teacher and a devotee of Krishna, still got punished by Krishna for he supported adharma by going with Duryodhana and for shutting his mouth when Draupathi was insulted, and for taking the thumb of Ekalaivan just to support Arjuna which is injustice. Krishna tells arjuna when he questions that how can he kill his teacher, that a teacher looses his/her respect when they dont follow dharma. Just because one is a teacher they cannot commit any sin even for the sake of preaching.

 

Krishna Himself says to Arjuna that Karna cannot be compared with anyone in pandavas for his giving nature. Yet Krishna punishes karna for following adharma by supportin Duryodhana and for asking Draupathi to sit on his lap when they lost the game. But for Karna's good deeds, Krishna gave Him his Vishwaroopa Dharshan, before he asked Arjuna to kill him.

 

Both Duryodhana and Arjuna went to Krishna to seek His help to ride the chariot in the war. Krishna knows this that Duryodhana is also coming for help. But He did not want to help Duryodhana as he did not have dharma on his side. Krishna nicely avoided Duryodhana which is explained beautifully. Krishna was lying down and pretending to be resting (Supreme never rests basically in protecting His devotees and thatswhat it implies). Duryodhana visits Krishna and seeing him resting, he went and sat near Krishna's head waiting for our Master to wake up. Arjuna came next to him and sat on the foot of krishna. Krishna knows this and when he woke up from his pretending sleep, he immediately saw arjuna and welcomed him saying "Arjuna when did you come, how long you have been waiting, what can i do for you" in continuous sentences. Arjuna immediately asked Krishna for the favor He wanted. Krishna gave him the word that He would drive His chariot.

Then Krishna saw Duryodhana and asked Him, "Duryodhana when did u come and I did not notice you, What can i do for you"

Duryodhana replied that He wants Krishna's help in war to support Him. Krishna replied in humuros way keeping a sad face (all pretending to protect truth and righteousness) and said "Oh Duryodhana I just gave word to Arjuna and you saw it being here. How can i take my word back"

 

These three incidents clearly reflects that Supreme supports only if there is Dharma (Truth and Righteousness) on the devotee's side. Supreficially, it may appear that Krishna did all kinds of trick and twists, but actually its inner meaning is God will come down to a true devotee when that devotee follows really the truth.

Regards

Shyam