Confused about text 6 in Karma Yoga.

[I_love_krishna_]

karmendriyani samyamya

ya aste manasa smaran

indriyarthan vimudhatma

mithyacarah sa ucyate

 

One who restrains the senses of action but whose mind dwells on sense objects certainly deludes himself and is called a pretender.

------------------------

 

This above verse is saying that one who cannot control his senses is a liar. I do my best to control my senses, but fail to do so sometimes, is this an offense against krishna? Am I a cheater in this way?

But the purport talks about a different kind of cheating :

 

purport : There are many pretenders who refuse to work in Krsna consciousness but make a show of meditation, while actually dwelling within the mind upon sense enjoyment. Such pretenders may also speak on dry philosophy in order to bluff sophisticated followers, but according to this verse these are the greatest cheaters. For sense enjoyment one can act in any capacity of the social order, but if one follows the rules and regulations of his particular status, he can make gradual progress in purifying his existence. But he who makes a show of being a yogi while actually searching for the objects of sense gratification must be called the greatest cheater, even though he sometimes speaks of philosophy. His knowledge has no value, because the effects of such a sinful man's knowledge are taken away by the illusory energy of the Lord. Such a pretender's mind is always impure, and therefore his show of yogic meditation has no value whatsoever.

 

So, are you a cheater if you cannot control your senses or are you a cheater if you just make off money by going into some woods to meditate? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Guest guest]

You are cheating others if while constantly thinking of sense gratification, you give the impression that your senses are under control and allow others to praise you for your self-control.

 

You are cheating yourself if you are deluded into thinking you have mastered your senses because you are not acting on them and yet are still constantly contemplating sense objects.

[I_love_krishna_]

Thank you prabhu, but I was actually focusing the cheating on krishna.

 

So, Am I cheating Krishna if I lose control of my senses?

 

[anadi]

"So, Am I cheating Krishna if I lose control of my senses? "

 

You are not in the position to cheat Krishna.

Never think like this.

But maybe you think you can cheat gurudeva.

 

"On the contrary, I see so many who, as Syamarani has told, are covering what

is there in their hearts. [Please see the end of this lecture for details]

They think, "My Gurudeva doesn't know anything; he is foolish. I can cheat

him." They don't say this directly, but they think in this way. They think

they can bluff Maharaja or any pure devotee, but a pure devotee cannot be

bluffed. He who can control Krsna - how can you bluff him? If he is really

Guru, he can never be cheated or bluffed.

 

You should know the identity of Guru. Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami has

written in his Mana Siksa prayers, "Nadharmam nadharmam srutigana. O mind,

you should always consider that Sri Sacinandana, Caitanya Mahaprabhu, is

actually Brajendranandana Syamasundara, and He is actually Guru." Raya

Ramananda told Mahaprabhu, "I am only your instrument. What I am speaking is

only by your inspiration. You are speaking. The mouth is mine, but actually

everything is being said by you."

 

One may say, "I want to serve Mahaprabhu like the gopis: He is my beloved

Mahaprabhu, and I am His beloved." Can we do this or not? This is

sahajiya. This is called gauranga-nagari-bhava, and it is apa-siddhanta,

against conclusive philosophical truth. We should not think in this way.

Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Guru, and we should do whatever He orders.

 

One day Vallabha Bhatta said to Advaita Acarya, "Why do you loudly chant

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama

Hare Hare? Every living entity is female and considers Krsna her husband. It

is the duty of a chaste wife, devoted to her husband, not to utter her

husband's name, but all of you chant the name of Krsna. How can this be

called a religious principle?"

 

Advaita Acarya responded, "In front of you is Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the

personification of religious principles. You should ask Him, for He will

give you the proper answer." Hearing this, Mahaprabhu said, "My dear

Vallabha Bhatta, you do not know religious principles. Actually, the first

duty of a chaste woman is to carry out the order of her husband. The order

of Krsna is to chant His name incessantly. Therefore one who is chaste and

adherent to the husband, Krsna, must chant the Lord's name, for she cannot

deny the husband's order. Following this religious principle, a pure

devotee of Krsna always chants the holy name. As a result of this, he gets

the fruit of ecstatic love for Krsna. My husband has ordered me to chant

this. He has said, 'You should do this, and that will make Me happy.' I must

make Him happy. I should serve Him."

 

Hearing this, Vallabha Bhatta could not say a word.

 

Previous to this, Vallabha Bhatta had told Mahaprabhu, "I have tried to

describe elaborately the meaning of Krsna's holy name. Kindly hear the

explanation."

 

Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied, "I do not accept many different meanings for

the holy name of Krsna. I know only that Krsna is Syamasundara and

Yasodanandana. That's all I know. The only purport of the holy name of Krsna

is that He is dark blue like a tamala tree and is the son of mother Yasoda.

This is the conclusion of all the revealed scriptures. I conclusively know

these two names, Syamasundara and Yasodanandana. I do not understand any

other meanings, nor have I the capacity to understand them."

 

Whatever Vallabha Bhatta said, Mahaprabhu simply replied in such away that

he became speechless. He wanted to defeat Mahaprabhu and show his own glory.

He wanted to show, "How qualified I am. How learned I am." But Caitanya

Mahaprabhu is jagad- guru. Therefore, whatever He has ordered and whatever

He has taught - we should try to follow totally.

 

Mahaprabhu has told us, "You should chant Krsna's name. Hare Krsna."

Actually Krsna has ordered this in the shape of Mahaprabhu, and therefore we

must follow. Understand that Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Guru. He is Krsna

Himself, with the mood of Radhika. It is very important to know this. Does

anyone know anything in this world that can cover the knowledge of

Mahaprabhu? Can anything be hidden from Him? Those who have this Guru,

Mahaprabhu, in their hearts cannot be cheated or bluffed. Never, Those who

try to bluff them will be bluffed. We should not try to cheat Guru or

Vaisnavas. All Vaisnavas are Guru, and to do what they want is bhakti."

 

Spoken by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

2001 Jan 24 - Murwillumbah

 

 

 

[armisael108]

My dear prabhu the only person you can cheat is yourself. And the verse speaks about those who show renunciation but their mind dwells in sense gratification.

 

One way to see it is for someone to take sannyasa, but still has sex desire. He is cheating himself badly. In the purport Prabhupada also denounces such yogis making a show-bottle meditation.

 

A show bottle is nice on the outside, but it has no substance inside. This is the cheating, you cheat yourself from having the thick nectar of krishna-prema.

[I_love_krishna_]

I cheat myself and my guru.

 

Thanks that clears it up. And Anadi prabhu, that was a great post. thank you again my friend and welcome back!

[anadi]

Thank you that you address me as a friend and that you liked the words of gurudeva.

 

Not controlling the senses is not cheating guru, but pretending that you are controling them, and taking the position of guru, this is cheating.

One should humble aknowledge his position, fill up his heart wtih the hari katha from the lips of the realised soul, and so the anarthas that makes us to not control the senses will go away.

 

 

"We should try to know the desire of Gurudeva. One who understands the Guru's

desires, both internally and externally, is called a sevaka. Someone else

may receive an order and have difficulty in obeying. He will say, "Oh

Gurudeva, how can I do this?Go and bring a glass of water.Gurudeva, if

there is no water, what should I do? Should I wash the glass or not? Should

I bring hot water or cold?" This person is not a sevaka. Moreover, if one

directly refuses to obey the order, he is not a sevaka, but a baka, crane.

We should try to be sevakas in the real sense - like Govinda, like Srila

Jiva Gosvami, like Sri Syamananda prabhu, Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, and

Srinivasa Acarya. We should become a sevaka like Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta

Sarasvati Thakura, who was the sevaka of Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji

Maharaja. We should be a disciple like my Gurudeva. He took his life and

soul in his hands to fulfill the desire of his Gurudeva.

 

In this way, if you want to have bhakti, you should have nistha, and then

Krsna's mercy will come to you.

 

All the sastras have given so much glorification of Sri Gurudeva. Srila

Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has written Sri Guruvastakam. In this he has

truly glorified Gurudeva, from first verse to the last. I explained

something about these slokas in Germany, especially samsara davanala lidha

loka tranaya karunya ghanaghanatvam. Krsna's condensed mercy is Gurudeva.

What is he doing? Sri vigraharadana nitya nana. He is always serving Sri

Vigraha, Krsna Himself and Radha Herself. He always directly serves the

Deity by making preparations, performing arcana, and he is always engaged in

sravanam, kirtana, smaranam, and so on. He offers four kinds of naivedya,

bhoga, to Krsna, and he honors that prasadam along with all the devotees.

He does not take prasadam alone. Sri Radhika madhavayor apara. He is always

very lolu, greedy, to taste the entirety of the guna, rupa, nama - the

qualities, form and names of Radha and Krsna. Moreover, nikunjajurno

rati-keli-siddhai. This sloka reveals the very confidential character of

Gurudeva, and this is why it is said further, saksadharitvena. He is not

Hari, but he is haritvena. All the qualities of Hari are embodied in him. He

is not Krsna and he is not Mahaprabhu, but all the qualities of Krsna and

Mahaprabhu are directly in him. He is the eternal, very high class of

confidential servant of Radha and Krsna."

 

Spoken by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

2001 Jan 24 - Murwillumbah

 

 

[srikanth_renu]

Anadi prabhu thanx for a post, hope by your mercy and Krsna i could realise and follow this in KC ,