Why did jivas leave the Krishna's Abode?

[sleepingjiva]

what is the reason of individual souls' fall? I mean the highest planets of spiritual sky don't lack anything, so why? why r we here?

also can u give me some proofs of soul in body? I'm 99% convinced that it's there, but I often find myslef in the imaginary talk with non-devotees and my arguments end at the point that I'm not able to explain why is the heart a place where soul is. I mean there's a passage in Bhagavadgita, where His Grace Srila Prabhupada asks readers, what is the source of energy in heart, if it's not a soul. And I hear voices of materialists saying: genetic, heredity factor.

Please, allow me start this debate about soul regarding the fact that belief in soul is the one of the most important topics.

[Govindaram]

i fail to believe i am this material body

composed of flesh & blood.

[theist]

 

what is the reason of individual souls' fall? I mean the highest planets of spiritual sky don't lack anything, so why? why r we here?

 

 

A very natural question that we all have had. I have heard three different answers from Gaudiya Vaisnavas to this.

 

1. We feel from direct pastimes with Krsna.

 

2.(A) We originated in the effulgence of Maha-Vishnu and had a choice to rise up into active service to Krsna or to become enamoured by the material side of active life and thus became entangled.

 

(B) Like (A) but not all souls as some did have the origin from The aurs of different forms of Krsna and entered directly into a rasa appropriate for relating with that form of Godhead. This says there are two classes of jiva's.

 

3. We originated at the lowest position in the material world and are working our way up.

 

My problem is I find it's just something that I can't comprehend at the moment with the available knowledge.

 

The main thing is I can perceive that I am presently experiencing repeated birth and death and need to transfer my consciousness to an eternal realm to actually experience happiness in its true state.

 

 

 

 

also can u give me some proofs of soul in body?

 

 

You are the best proof as you are the soul. Its not that you are a body that has a soul but rather you are the soul that presently has a material body. Try using the word self in place of soul.

 

Prominent scientists like Francis(DNA) Crick have researched the brain looking for the self with no success. He is know lecturing thsat there is no self to be found and that we in fact do not really exist.

 

Such a silly scientist. He has successfully shown that the self must be something other than the material body though.

 

The fact that the body still shows signs of life such as metabolism is proof of the souls existence. When we leave the body metabolism stops and that which composed the body disperses.

 

 

 

I'm 99% convinced that it's there, but I often find myslef in the imaginary talk with non-devotees and my arguments end at the point that I'm not able to explain why is the heart a place where soul is.

 

 

The soul is in the subtle body which has correspondence to the physical heart.

 

 

 

I mean there's a passage in Bhagavadgita, where His Grace Srila Prabhupada asks readers, what is the source of energy in heart, if it's not a soul. And I hear voices of materialists saying: genetic, heredity factor.

Please, allow me start this debate about soul regarding the fact that belief in soul is the one of the most important topics.

 

 

Yes, a most inmportant topic for sure.

 

I would like to reccommend a book called Who Are You by Chris Butler (AKA Siddhasvarupananda) a disciple of Srila Prabhupada which covers this very nicely and takes up the materialistic arguments and shows where they are lackin.

 

The Identity Institute

P.O. Box 11039

Honolulu Hawaii 96828

 

This may be an outdated address.

 

 

[Guest guest]

here is an up to date phone number where you can find out how to order it i think

[Guest guest]

left out 1-800-7551981

[gHari]

asleep.

[sleepingjiva]

I was just wondering about another puzzle. Why is the number of people increasing nowdays? Where r these souls coming? I'd say it's an ignorance & many unwanted children, but that would mean that this ignorance requires new souls and therefore manipulates souls to be in material world. If soul is eternal it's impossible souls to be born. Is it likely that the increasing number of people is caused by fall of some souls? thnx in advance

[anadi]

I would have never waited such an answer from you.

[anadi]

Jiva never leaves Krishna's abode.

See the thread with another simple logical question

pertaining of Krishna having a demoniac side.

[Gaurasundara]

Apparently there is nothing in the writings of the Goswamis or the previous Acharyas to suggest that jivas fell from Krsna's abode.

[gHari]

arrive from the animal kingdom. If they remain animals as humans (simply eating, sleeping and defending) then such souls return to the animal kingdom.

[sleepingjiva]

if people's number increasing, where r they comin' from? It's no logic in there, cause people r killing so many animals, wait...i see, so it means that for example by artificially bred animals, for purpose of meateating these amnimals incarnates into humans. wow!

[sleepingjiva]

Jivas forgot Krishna and it is due to this they suffer.(this is their fall) So it means they remembered Him in the past, what did cause their forgetfullness? What was their situation, when they remembered Him? I don't understand.

[I_love_krishna_]

Maya caused their forgetfullness

[tovishal2001]

from animal kingdom??? so that means ,

at any time the exact number of souls in this material world remains constant(excpet those who got elevated and got place at shri Krishna's foot /images/graemlins/smile.gif ).

Am i right? .......... so lets begin counting /images/graemlins/wink.gif

thanks /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[sleepingjiva]

what was before maya fooled us?

why do animals go into human bodies? what does play role in elevating animal into man?

thnx for your answers, I appreciate them from all my heart /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[yasodanandana]

what was before maya fooled us?

(we were in the spiritual condition called "tatasta".. spiritual but marginal)

why do animals go into human bodies?

(it does not depends from their behaviour, because an animal can act only instinctively, simply there's an evolutive scale, we fall in an animal race because karma gives us the exact body to fulfill our desires.. then we start to "evolve" automatically from inferior species to superior ones, then we obtain the human form)

what does play role in elevating animal into man?

(as i have said.. it is automatic, in some very special circumstance, for devotee's and lord's mercy, tha animals are feed with prasadam... the next life is surely human and with this important spiritual achievement)

 

[anadi]

BAbAji: The taTastha-Sakti, or marginal potency,

is one of Sri KRSNa’s innumerable potencies.

Issuing forth from this marginal potency

are the entities who are <font color="red"> situated between the cit-jagat (spiritual worlds) and jaDajagat (material worlds)</font color>

and which have the potential to associate with either. These

entities are known as jiva-tattva (spiritual souls). The jivas are cit-paramanu by composition,

which means that they are atomic entities of pure consciousness.

These jivas can be bound in the material world because

they are tiny, but since they are constituted of pure consciousness,

if they simply acquire a little spiritual power, they can <font color="red"> also become eternal residents of the spiritual world </font color> and obtain paramAnanda

(supreme transcendental pleasure).

 

Source Jaiva Dharma by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Chapter 4 - Vaishnava Dharma is nitya (eternal) dharma (true nature of the soul)

 

First we should understand that

jiva comes from the marginal position

and can associate

with the eternity purity and love

of the spiritual world or

or with the

temporality,

misery

and envy

of the material world.

 

Secondly jiva never falls from the spiritual world, he becomes eternal resident of eternity.

 

When the eternal associates of the Lord accompany Him in His lilas in the material world, they are never bound by maha maya.

[Guest guest]

The famous saint from Tamil Nadu, Shri Raman Maharshi described his own experience in feeling his soul. Before he started his Sadhana (spiritual austerities), he was a boy of very robust health. Once he was alone in his uncle's house. On that particular day he was in a perfect health. However, for unknown reasons he suddenly felt the fear of death. The fear of death was so gripping that he could not think of consulting someone or go to a doctor etc. But he thought, if he is going to die, what could happen? He laid down like a corpse, with his legs straight, lips tightened, closed his eyes and even controlled his breath. In spite of this corpse-like position, he was 'aware' of his surroundings. He knew perfectly, where he was and what he was doing, withoug using any of his senses. Where from this knowledge came to him? It was his soul, the vibrant energy, the 'Chetana" that gave him all the information. Once, this knowledge, that, he was the soul and not the body dawned on him, he never had the fear of death

[anadi]

There are two types of jivas: mukta (liberated) and baddha

(bound). The jivas who reside in the spiritual world are mukta,

whereas those who are shackled by mAyA and attached to this

material world are baddha. There are two types of baddha-jivas: those

who are spiritually awake (udita-viveka); and those who are spiritually

unconscious (anudita-viveka). Birds, beasts and human beings

who do not seek their supreme spiritual benefit are spiritually

unconscious, whereas human beings who have adopted the

path of VaiSNavism are spiritually awake, for no one except the

VaiSNavas genuinely endeavor to attain the supreme spiritual goal.

That is why the SAstras have declared that serving VaiSNavas and

associating with them is the best of all activities.

Those who are spiritually awake develop taste for the practice

of kRSNa-nAma on the strength of their faith in SAstra, and from

this they easily develop an attraction for serving and associating

with VaiSNavas.

 

Source Jaiva Dharma by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Chapter 4 - Vaishnava Dharma is nitya (eternal) dharma (true nature of the soul)