Haridham Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 Why is it that many people consider shiva to be supreme when everywhere in the vedas it is krsna is the supreme. Is it because Lord Shiva is Asutosh(easily pleased). Also i have heard that in the Shiva purana it is stated that Lord Shiva is supreme.Ofcourse in the Ganesh Purana has stated that Ganesh is supreme. Now ofcourse there are 18 puranas which are divided into 6 catagoris according to the gunas. Six in Tama guna, six in Raja guna and six in satva guna. The srimad bhagavatam and bhagavat gita are in Satva guna. Maybe people should try reading them. Each of the Puranas claim that their perticular diety is supreme so people in those gunas can observe what they can while being in that guna and not go to higher dieties because it might be disruptive. Am I correct or incorrect. Let me know. hare krsna. Hari Dham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hare Krishna, I have the same problem - I feel torn between worshipping Lord Shiva and Lord Krishna. I am currently watching the Shiv puran and you are rite, it does lead one to believe that Shiva is supreme to whom even Lord Vishnu bows down to. I would like to have this clarified too as my heart is with Krsna but am confused over whether I should be worshipping Shiva if he is the supreme one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumedh Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hare Krishna and dandavats In addition to the categorization of puraanas as sattvic/rajasic/tamasic in Padma puraana and that the conclusions of sattvic puraanas should be considered correct, it also mentions four sampradayas as authentic all of which are vaishnava. There was a nice post sometime back, which showed the contradiction in the tamasic puraanas as to who killed Lord Nrsimha, which showed that their conclusions should not be accepted as authority (especially when sattvic puraanas state a contrary position) but are meant for persons with predominantly tamasic nature. Above all we have the authority of Lord Chaitanya and other Spiritual Masters starting from Him which assert this. May i suggest you to read Srila Prabhupada's books and then make up your mind. The greatest difference in the authorized sampradayas and others is that if you read other writings they may be full of nice flowery language but without references to authority; the vaishnava acharyas always substantiate any philosophical point with reference to Vedic and other authorized texts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Prabhu don't know who you are but I could tell you I was in exact same situation. Its like my mind was going in all directions. After a long time I realized {bit hard to put into words for me without expressing myself} anyway.. When I thought Shiva was Supreme I had this kind of hatred for Krishna in my mind. I could feel it coming into my brain. Kind of not liking Vaishnava's. This was after a devotee came to my house from Rudra Sampradaya, he gave me some beads to chant {not diskya}. I realized that people are attracted to Shiva not because of His Supremacy but because of his kindness. So the devotee who came to my house killed this misconception which was going to come into my brain in the future I am sure. Plus I had benefit of eating his Maha-Maha-prasadam. This I do believe brought me to my Diksya Gurudeva. So you see I needed the blessings of a devotee of Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva is very kind. Lord Shiva I now believe holds special position. Unfortunality people misunderstand His power for Supremacy. He is dear devotee of Krishna. Serve Lord Shiva to serve Krishna, thats best way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Thank you for your reply and the websites. But I would like to have clarified why one would serve Lord SHiva to serve Lord Krsna - why not just serve Lord Krsna (e.g. by chanting of Maha Mantra, Krishna puja, etc)? But your response has made me feel alot more confident in chanting both mantras that I feel very comfortable with which are the Maha Mantra and OM NAMAH SHIVA. Am I rite in gathering from your reply, that Lord Krsna is our ultimate supreme goal of worship though? Thats what I want clarified too Thank you for your help, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 But I promised I would chant Om Namah Sivaya as service. So I should finish this. But because I chant Maha-mantra there's actually no need to chant Om Namah Sivaya. Maha-mantra is prayer to Krishna. Om Namah Sivaya is prayer to Lord Shiva. So its a devotee mantra but maybe people do ask for gains {material and spiritual}. Right now goal is to understand Shiva and Krishna. I'd like to warn you while giving up any mantra you mind will react. Maybe do it slow. Pray to Lord Shiva ask that you may gain furtherness in chanting Maha-mantra. {and don't forget the main person Lord Nityananda}. The basic translation of Om Namah Sivaya is 'I offer my respectful obeiences to Shiv'. {very staut devotee}. You can feel what respect he demands. Thats mark of a devotee. Goal is to serve devotees. Then you can get Krishna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Hello, I was reading into the website you attached and find the second offence contradicting: "Similarly, to think the names of demigods such as Lord give to be as good as the name of Lord Visnu-or in other words, to think Lord Siva and the other demigods to be other forms of God and therefore equal to Visnu-is also blasphemous. This is the second offense at the lotus feet of the Lord. " I was taught that the trinity (Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh) do have different roles but are equal. Please clarify especially as I do not understand why Lord Shiva is being stated as being a demigod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 One must follow in the footsteps of great authorities like Brahma, Siva, Narada, Manu, the Kumaras, Kapila, Prahlada, Bhishma, Sukadeva Gosvami, Yamaraja, Janaka, and Bali Maharaja. By mental speculation one cannot ascertain what is religion or self-realization. __ http://bhagavadgitaasitis.com/4/16/en1 {Purport extract} Demi-God means not Supreme God. Shiva and Krsna are same in the sense they always think of one another, but this is reffering to Sada-siva not Shambu. Sada-siva is in Vaikuntha-loka who is same as Four-handed Vishnu. But Shambu is devotee in this World. I am not quite sure how you can say or make comparrsion because a devotee for us is better than God, because devotee takes you to God. Though Even then becauses devotees are always in love with God you can't think of them as seperate just as: In the Vaikuntha planets the land, the trees, the fruits and flowers and the cows -- everything -- is completely spiritual and personal. The trees are desire trees. On this material planet the trees can produce fruits and flowers according to the order of material energy, but in the Vaikuntha planets the trees, the land, the residents and the animals are all spiritual. There is no difference between the tree and the animal or the animal and the man. Here the word murtimat indicates that everything has a spiritual form. Formlessness, as conceived by the impersonalists, is refuted in this verse; in the Vaikuntha planets, although everything is spiritual, everything has a particular form. The trees and the men have form, and because all of them, although differently formed, are spiritual, there is no difference between them. __ http://srimadbhagavatam.com/3/15/16/en1 {Purport} Form being key word. I hope that answers anything else let me know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumedh Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Hare Krishna and dandavats "I was taught that the trinity (Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh) do have different roles but are equal. Please clarify especially as I do not understand why Lord Shiva is being stated as being a demigod!" Where did you get this teaching from -- partial truth is most dangerous. The trinity are similiar *only* when we consider them as guna-avataars (i.e. saatvic, rajasic and tamasic) of Krishna, but if you consider the svarup (or true nature) of them then Kshirodakshayi-Vishnu is an expansion of Krishna, Shiva is between jiva-tattva and vishnu-tattva and Brahma is mostly jiva. Regarding the nature of Lord Shiva the following is stated in Brahma-Samhita "I adore the Primaeval Lord Govinda, Who transforms Himself as Sambhu for performing the work of destruction, just as milk is transformed into curd which is neither the same as, nor different from, milk". Lord Shiva is compared to yogurt which is milk transformed, but yogurt cannot transform to milk. Lord Brahma and Lord Shiva are demi-gods meaning they are subserviant to the Supreme Lord but the concept of some that all dieties (e.g. Durga, Ganesh ...) are on the same level i.e. that of Supreme Lord, is only an imagination and finds no support in Vedic texts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Thank you for your clarifications. I no longer feel confused re the Krsna and Shiva relationships/comparisons and am comfortable that my adoration of Lord Krishna is where the devotions should be focused as my ultimate goal of liberation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumedh Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Hare Krishna and dandavat pranam I recently read this very nice interview of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati here http://www.harekrsna.com/philosophy/bmgs/acaryas/bhaktisiddhanta/writings/sct1.htm It nicely explains in brief a number of common points of confusion among modern day hindus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Shiva's position is given in the conclusion of the highest purana. The Amala(spotless) purana. nimna-gānāḿ yathā gańgā devānām acyuto yathā vaiṣṇavānāḿ yathā śambhuḥ purāṇānām idam tathā Just as the Gańgā is the greatest of all rivers, Lord Acyuta the supreme among deities and Lord Śambhu [Śiva] the greatest of Vaiṣṇavas, so Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the greatest of all Purāṇas. Hare Krsna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 that didnt come out right. Here it is again. Nimna-ganam-yatha ganga devanam-acyuto-yatha vaisnavanam-yatho-shambu puranam-idam-tatha Just as the the ganga is the greatest of all rivers, Lord Acutya the Supreme among deities and Lord Shambu(shiva) the greatest vaisnavas, so the Srimad Bhagavatam is the greatest of all puranas. 12-13-16 Hare Krsna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Please excuse me if this is a silly question but who is "Lord Acutya"? Thank you for the information as it helps me to focus my worship on Krishna especially as I was feeling torn between Shiva and Krishna which is why I posted my concern in the first place, to hope that someone out there will be able to respond to the question marks in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumedh Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Hare Krishna Achutya means the infallible and is a name of Lord Krishna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Based on the response, which Mantra therefore should be practiced? Aum Namah Shivaya or Krishna MahaMantra both of which I feel drawn to but at same time feel I should choose one to specifically focus my energies on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu appears as Avatar the prolusion of the Hare Krsna mantra, as in previous ages other mantras were sufficiently recommended, soooooo Hare Nama Hare Nama Hare Namam Eva kevalam etc. This will give greater results. Chant on friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shob Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 If you can read Chaintanya Charitamrta by Srila prabhupada, you will get clear point. There is explained very well that Krsna is supreme. All of them are Krsna devote, Krsna is devote of love. when you chant and serve krsna, you will be free from material desires, he will not ask to bag Vardan, he knows what to give, to go back to Krsna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Everyone should understand the fact at there is only one God. He neither has a form nor has a name. It is because human's limited capacity, he gives names and forms and various other attributies to worships them. Our greatest foolishness is so many of us see God as a super-HUMAN because we don't know what real GOD is. We keep making our own images, giving them names, etc and amuse ourselves. The best thing that we can do it pray to whichever god we like and not make any judgements on who is greater than whom. There is no end to it. In doing so, we are trying to satisfy only or petty selves and not the real SELF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Being a human, our tendency is to see diversity. Why should diversify God and drag him to our level. There is only one god. Call him shiva, vishnu or by any other name. Being infinite he can understand, by whichever name you call. So why this hue and cry about who is greater? We will never progress in our spiritual path as long as we see diversity. It is upto every human to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Rare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 it is really v difficult situation but shiva bhakats can always pray to lord krishna also ,as we offer respect to our mother and father and both the parents dont mind it.i hope now all of you are clear for once and for all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 I can tell u where u can find god if u r really interested please mail me with subject (i want to know god) on bkrajeshpabari@.co.in (believe me i am not joking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 I can tell u where u can know & meet god if u r really want to know god write an email to me with subject (I want to know god) to bkrajeshpabari@.co.in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherry Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 'Caitanya Bhagavata' by Vrndavana dasa Thakura (Antya Lila - chapter 4) 'Lord Krsna Himself says that how can any person worship Him and not worship Siva?. How can one develop love for Krsna if he disregards Lord Siva who is so dear to Lord Krsna. In the Srimad Bhagavatam it says "How can anyone render devotional service to Me without worshipping My dear devotee Siva in the proper devotional mood. A person who does not respect Siva is envious of the Vaisnavas and is a sinful reprobate." Again, in the Skanda Purana it says "First one should worship Lord Krsna, the cause of all causes, and then worship the best of the demigods, Lord Siva. Then all the other demigods should be worshiped with great faith and devotion." Sri Advaita Arcarya is accepted by the saintly personalities as Siva himself. This is so because Lord Caitanya gave sufficient indications to establish this truth.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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