Shiva and Krsna

[brajeshwara das]

As I've said, I'm unqualified and can't make the subtle distinctions in interpreting sanskrit in the scriptures. You have no arguement from me there, I am a beginning beginner. Maybe all I can handle now is the books of my Gurus. Though I am low and unqualified, I will end my posts here by trying to answer some of your questions:

 

No mention of Demigods?: amara (though I am no scholar) is used frequently in shastra to describe Demigods. Daivata is as well. If the English word 'Demigod' doesn't appear them I'm sorry. The vedas weren't written in English. And I know depending on the context different words can be interpreted differently, that is why we need Guru and sadhus to guide us in our understanding of shastra.

 

No reference to mayavadi in the scriptures? From the Padma Purana:

 

 

 

māyāvādam asac-chāstraḿ

pracchannaḿ bauddham ucyate

mayaiva vihitaḿ devi

kalau brāhmaṇa-mūrtinā

 

 

 

"[Lord Śiva informed goddess Durgā, the superintendent of the material world:] 'In the Age of Kali I take the form of a brāhmaṇa and explain the Vedas through false scriptures in an atheistic way, similar to Buddhist philosophy.'"

 

Second of the Offenses to the Holy Name, also from the Padma Purana:

 

sivasya sri-visnor ya iha guna-namadi-sakalam

dhiya bhinnam pasyet sa khalu hari-namahita-karah

 

 

 

To consider the names of Lord Siva or Lord Brahma to be on an equal level with the holy name of Lord Visnu.

 

 

 

 

And since you accept Sri Caitanyadev as the Lord (I think), from Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 6.169:

 

 

 

jīvera nistāra lāgi' sūtra kaila vyāsa

māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa

 

 

Śrīla Vyāsadeva presented the Vedānta philosophy for the deliverance of conditioned souls, but if one hears the commentary of Śańkarācārya, everything is spoiled.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I'm done with this game. The Infinite is infinitely beyond me! I will look into Lord Siva's position more closely, I have a lot to learn and I can only benefit in learning to regard and respect all aspects, potencies, parts and parcels of the Lord more fully. My Gurudeva has an intimate personal relationship with Lord Siva and Lord Ganesh so I definitely want to pay my highest respects. I definitely never would intend to minimize Thier positions and meant no offense towards Them. With the Grace of Sri Guru, Sadhu and Shastra hopefully I will becone a proper receiver of the Lord's mercy. Please forgive my offenses.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

This is speculation, the scriptures themselves say that we must approach a bona fide guru to understand the deep subject of bhakti, and that guru must come from a sampradaya. Now we have to take scriptures fully, not selectively to suit our whims. It is granted to even know about Bhakti, we had to refer to scriptures, otherwise we would not know about this subject.

 

If Bhakti was that simple and everyone was qualified to understand such topic, then all we have to do is go to a library and study books on bhakti, actually forget even sadhu sanga (association of devotees) or temple visits. If it was only that easy, but no, bhakti cannot be understand by mental speculation (we think we have bhakti) or sentiment (we mistake this emotion to be bhakti).

 

 

To claim and challenge an age old sampradaya of Vaishnava acharya about the sanskrit is uncalled for, they are very qualified acharyas and because they understood it the way the orginal Guru Krsna taught them, their sanskrit is as it was taught by the Lord. Any fool take learn sanskrit and interpret to english but we should understand that sanskrits takes more than study to know, atma has three meanings, a scholar may interpret it whimsically but a spiritual master cannot because he simply repeats what his guru says and his guru repeats what his guru says and this goes all the way back to the Lord, this why sampradayaic parampara works, because it gives no lee way for our mental speculation or opinions.

 

What point are you trying to make about this Guru thing? About Advaita Acharya being Lord Chaitanya's Guru?

 

 

 

Dear my friend at least now you admit that getting a advaita Guru is not wrong as you have admitted that even Krsna(Mahaprabhu) have taken his initiation (the most important second initiation) from one. Tell this to your readers this. Because to reach God (Krsna) you don't have to be in sect or line. All your need is Bhakti, a strong bhakti which your mind always think about him even when you eat(every spoon), read, watching movies,etc.

 

I can see some anger in your replies that might - because you can't answer my question directly, but appreciate your Bhakti.

 

Even though you can't answer any of my question, I need to admit one thing. You have a nice blog.

 

So next time don't say that Siva is Krsna's devotee or mention demigod. Do you something if you interpret Gita's Sanskrit word to word there is no a word called DEMIGOD. And nowhere in the shastra it says Ganesha, Muruga, Shiva , Devi is Demigod.

 

Thousand Apologies if I have offended you. keep up your weblog and Devotion to Krsna because he is the saviour.

[Guest guest]

Ask any question you want, the scriptures answer them, whether it is up to our satisfaction depends on our ego, our pride, on whether we should accept or not.

 

I apologise or not mentioning who Lord Chaitanya's Guru is, but instead of assuming stuff about me, I think its much wiser to ask me or do research yourself. I dont not intend any malice by not mentioning him. If you think I did, then please forgive me, sometimes we think others in a particular way as what we think of others is actually a reflection of our mind.

 

I think we have stated before, we actually do do Ganesh Puja in all samskaras performed in our ISKCON temples, because he removes the obstacles to bhakti to Lord Krsna. Many devotees actually pray to Lord Ganesh and I know many more who actually carry a diety of Lord Ganesh with them and they worship him and ask for blessings that they may excel in devotion to Lord Krsna. We are not hiding anything, nor are we derising the worship of demigods, we are actually pointing out that we should mistake demigods as supreme lord, we worship guru, but that worship is guru puja we worship guru not as the supreme lord, now do u call that offensive? I think we should go around the world and study "Hare Krsnas" before jumping to the only conclusion we like: Why arent the hare Krsnas worshiping Ganesh first even though Nectar of Devotion says so" or nonsense assumptions on editing or deleting certain lines from books.

 

I am not only saying Scriptures are saying it, I am also saying that it has to be understood from guru that comes from parampara, any tom, dick and harry can learn sanskrit and read scriptures, but the point is we may always misunderstand them. Based on the authority of the 4 sampradayas coming from Lord Krsna Himself, the Guru says only Lord Krsna the reservoir of the full 64 qualities should be worshiped no point going to anyone else.

 

Your not wrong in saying Lord Siva is supreme, He is, but that is Sadasiva, not the Shambu manifest in this universe, Shambu acts as a demigod in this universe therefore only giving material benidictions, thats why bona fide guru says we should only aspire for liberation and only mukunda can give that, and mukunda is another name for Lord Krishna. A Guru is expert in scriptures and he is expert in knowing our mentality so lets surrender to Guru who is repeating what Lord Krsna says as it is.

 

Krsna is telling us via the Srimad Bhagavatam, He doesnt only manifest front of me and tell me those things dear sir, he has already manifesting in front of everyone, you too, through Srimad Bhagatvam, the cream of all the vedas and puranas as it says within it.

 

Now it depends if we take this mercy or not, we have to see if our ego is coming in the way to our surrender and SELECTIVE HEARING or whimsical actions.

 

Gotcha? what are you talking about? We are not having a debate on egos here, we are endeavoring for the truth, saying challenging things like that shows disrepute to your school of thought.

 

Proper Gurus is just your opinion of what a proper guru is, the scriptures say proper guru comes from the Lord Himself, Srila Prabhupada has stated and proved his guru disciplic line from Lord Krsna to himself. So has many other gurus, please back up your statements of your idea of those who you call proper gurus, otherwise it holds no basis.

 

We recommend you read all books and scriptures coming from one of the 4 bonafide sampradayas: Sri, Kumara, Brahma and Rudra sampradayas, any guru who comes from this line is a bonafide guru, because he repeats what his guru says so they say the way Lord Krishna said it and the way the four personalities above understood it. Then i agree with you, you can make your mind up. For the record the Hare Krsnas come from the Brahma sampradaya and we acknowledge and recommend the other three too.

 

You also said:

 

"But I appreciate JCHL's bakti. Love the God you have chosen as Supreme and don't call others as my God's Devotee. Cos Krsna himself be sad. If what you say is true, then ALL THE GURU form south to North are wrong except Prabhupad. Is taht what are you saying, my soul Friend."

 

Dear sir, its hard to find pure souls, Krsna says this in the Bhagavad Gita, so your argument of the majority rules is no argument, thats just one point. point 2, we havent seen the whole world to stipulate that all Gurus agree with each other apart from Srila Prabhupada. point 3: there are indeed other gurus from other BONA FIDE sampradayas that agree with Srila Prabhupada and accept him as a bona fide authority.

 

Your message about "love your god" has a fallacy, if i say I like Micheal Jackson and he is my God, then will that lead me to Heavan? Definately not!

Similarly the scriptures talk about that who is God and who is a devata, (adminstrator of a material function in the universe), I am sure you heard of the devatas, scriptures talk about them (about your comments about demigods are non-existent in scriptures). The books say, what is jiva tattva, what is guru tattva, what is vishnu tattva and what is Siva tattva. We must understand who is supreme before we worship Him, clearly Micheal Jackson is not supreme. We follow on the basis of proper spiritual authorities not some mental speculators, not follow the sheep, not follow the thousand people who dont know shastra.

 

-JHCal

 

 

 

Hare Krsna to all the great Souls!

 

If you go to Church the father will give speech about what others should listen he will hide the rest of the scriptures. Furthermore you can't ask certain Questions. Then they will say you are Satan's Child but they will never answer the Questions.

 

Our friend JHCL have done the similar thing too. He have spoken about the Guru of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu but never mention who he is and what sampadraya he is from, whether krsna is supreme and Shiva is devotee. Same as the church he is hiding and not telling people like brajeshwara das. If you follow Chaitanya Mahaprabhu then follow whatever his guru done. Why are the Hare Krsna temple not following what Nectar of Devotion says- Do Ganesha Puja first before Krsna Puja. Ypu did agree it was written in Nectar of Devotion, why because it was not written by Srila Prabhupad. Give 2 - 3 years the new edition of Nectar of Devotion will delete that Paragraph about Ganesha.

 

Come on scriptures says Krsna is Supreme. That is totally true. But scriptures says Shiva is Supreme. Gotcha! So all depend on what,whose, etc scriptures.

my dear friend Krsna is supreme to me and well as Shiva because I believe in both the scriptures. Jchl must be a great soul of out time cause He have seen Krsna and Krsna should have told him that Hey! look here! Shiva is my devotee and you should pray to him as a Mahadeva and don't believe any other scripture.

When JCHL says scriptures that means the all Vedas,Puranas and Ithikasams?

I don't think so. If the Scriptures mentioned by Srila Prabhupad then he is Horse wearing blinkers.

But I appreciate JCHL's bakti. Love the God you have chosen as Supreme and don't call others as my God's Devotee. Cos Krsna himself be sad. If what you say is true, then ALL THE GURU form south to North are wrong except Prabhupad. Is taht what are you saying, my soul Friend.

 

Anyone out there, think for yourself. There is lot true fact which people like JCHL are hiding from you. Read all the puranas and books (even Gita) wriiten by PROPER GURUS (Swami Yogananda , Sivananda, Ammachi). Then come to conclusion for yourself. Not only 4 or 5 books which Hare Krsna recommends.

 

And for me Krsna is Supreme, but I realized that Siva is also Supreme. So does Ganesha and Muruga. If I have offended anyone I am sorry. Remember this: In the Scripture Krsna says "you only can come to me if there is no attachment." that is also no attachment to your caste, group(Saivite, Vaisanva, etc), cult, language, land and nation. Love your God for the matter Krsna and see him in everything and everyone and always make your mind go around him. That is what gonna help you when you are in the death bed.

 

Hare Krsna! Krsna Arpanamasthu!

[Guest guest]

What are you on about? I dont understand this church father thing, please if you could kindly elaborate. Whats your question? I would be happy to repeat what I learnt from Srila Prabhupada the bona fide guru from Sampradaya.

 

I never called you a satan child, please dont speculate.

 

Arjuna's Guru was Dhaumya, he too was from sampradaya, unlike many guru today who think they know God. This is from scriptures and I got you an answer, anything else?

 

By the way, I aint claim as it is like you are based on our limited intelligence, the bonafide school is claiming AS IT IS. I am honest enough to admit that I am limited and I can speculate about God and His scripture, so I dutifully approach proper spiritual authorities not speculators. And please dont use language like that Godly people who come from proper school dont challenge in an egotistical way, the submissively inquire just like the in the Mahabharata, and ironically, I am not talking about Duryadhana inquiring to Drona. This further proves the point that genuine sampradyaic schools produce humble students of the scriptures not arrogant and disgruntled ones.

 

 

 

 

 

 

JHCL must be a Church Father. He never answer the doubt but as same as a Church Father - he never answer. One more question for him to ponder on and to call me a Satan' child!

 

Why did Arjuna born again after he gone with his brothers? What was he and who was his Guru? You can't get the answer if you gonna stick to Your so called Scriptures. Take out your Blinkers out and read more real scriptures which don't claim "AS IT IS".

[Guest guest]

It doesnt matter if we read 5 or 6 books, we can read all scriptures and still arrive at the wrong conclusion, why? the answer is simple, we are not perfect, so therefore we approach a bonafide authority.

 

Mayavadhi is more prevalent than we can imagine, actually its is more or less all over the world, maybe you are right, probably from a small sector in India, but so what? It doesnt matter where it came from, it matters on what it is and the impact of it.

 

Lord Chaitanya's Guru was Ishvar Puri. A bona fide guru from the sampradaya.

 

 

Really? Was Arjuna born again, tell me who was he reborn as, you clearly know more than me?

 

 

 

 

Dear Mr brajeshwara das, I understand your faint excuses. I'm not here to say whose Guru is right or wrong! Who am I, for matter of fact who are we. Inthe first place please read Nectar of Devotion. Because it came from Vaisanava Sampradaya.

 

Sorry, it seems I have been talking to people who have read 5 or 6 books and calling them Scriptures. I'm totally sorry. Till now you have never cleared any of my Question. The mayavadi theory is only from your small sector of the whole India. And the excuse of can't get a Guru is really astonishing, cause we are talking about Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu not one of us. If Lord can't get a proper Guru then what is going to happen to us? When you are a kid you get lesson from a Kindergaten Teacher. But when you are in the UNI, you get professor to teach you. Same as these Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is a Lord so he got someone who knew the truth to be his Guru. Stop giving excuses and tell why and where Arjuna need to be born again?

 

If you are talking about Guru, then listen to this:

 

Guru Brahma

Guru Vishnu

Guru Deyvomah

 

they are from scriptures. But why then you don't say them in Hare Krsna temples? Oh sorry you are not going to answer this too!

I'm sorry again.

 

God is Almighty and my Prayers to all Guru from South to North.

[Guest guest]

Which scripture did u get this from and what are you trying to prove with the below words?

 

If you are proving these are strung together and it means they are all equal you are right, they are call equal in the capacity of Guru, because they are all Guru, and Gurus teach the supreme Lord is Krsna.

 

There are loads of the things in the Vedas, we dont have to say them all because we capture the essence of the whole Vedas: Krsna, I think this is not a good argument, are you claiming that all the hindu temples around the world say everything there is in the scriptures, no they dont, they too capture the essence.

 

Krsna says in the Bhagavad Gita: vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo, out of all the Vedas, I (Krsna) am to be known. And because the Supreme Lord is absolute, there is no difference between Him and His name. Hence we say the Hare Krsna mahamantra as prescribe in this age in Kali Yuga (Kalisantarana upanishad).

 

I think have mentioned references here, in discussions its best to have dialogues with references from scriptures as we are imperfect.

 

So this is answered. Please dont be rash in your questions, all questions should be asked in a humble manner, these pleases the supreme lord and helps us advance, not a challenging spirit motivated out of pride and arrogance. Please if I could advise that we study how to ask questions.

 

Jai!

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you are talking about Guru, then listen to this:

 

Guru Brahma

Guru Vishnu

Guru Deyvomah

 

they are from scriptures. But why then you don't say them in Hare Krsna temples? Oh sorry you are not going to answer this too!

I'm sorry again.

 

God is Almighty and my Prayers to all Guru from South to North.

[Guest guest]

You are 100% correct here, actually there is only one line: Bhakti but how to attain bhakti has many lines according to one's individual inclinations, so the lord is kind and gave us 4 authorised schools. Anything outside these schools is mental speculation or sentiment arising from our rebelious and egotistical attitude.

 

Devata and mayavadhi is part of our study as its mentioned in the bhagavad Gita, sing the glories of the Lord but at the same time we must realise who we are singing about, ignorance is no excuse, we must understand shastra under the guidance of a bona fide guru, he teaches us how to sing the glories of the lord properly.

 

 

I just told you Never Never have attachment of any sort cause Krsna wants Adam before he ate the apple. So please follow your Guru but don't say I.m belong to this line, you belong to that line. Everybody belong to one line that is longing for Krsna's love line. So let's everybody sing his Glories and forget about the words Demigod and Mayavadi.

[Guest guest]

Its no wonder you are not getting your questions answered, please master the art of asking questions in a nice way, I am sure your guru will be not pleased with you asking in such fashion.

 

Your questions have been answered, so stop asking, we are not going to change our answers to suit your whims. this also means you have already made your mind up about the answer to those questions you put in front of us, so they are not even sincere questions, just egocentric challenges, please try to understand your guru atleast (if you want to go that way), he would never approve of this.

 

Mayavadhis is a term used for people who think they can become God, even though the sanskrit word may or may not be there, who cares? the fact is these people do exist. they think they can become God, they cannot even control their own lives and they dream about controlling the universe.

 

I think we have already stated what is a bogus guru and wot is not a bogus guru, Srila Prabhupada has said actually, we are just humbly repeating the same message, this is our only qualification.

 

You have no grounds on claiming we have small understanding of scriptures, these are all just opinions stated by someone who is aggressive, rude and obnoxious and at the moment offensive. According to Narada Muni, Humillity is the culmination of perfection of studying all scriptures (Mahabharata), if one doesnt have humility, he has the smallest understanding of the scriptures. Narada Muni says this not me, I have no qualification. Those who look down on others and accuse other of having small knowledge actually because of their arrogance, have themselves small knowledge.

 

Please stop rambling on about Ganesh you got your answer, whether you are satisfied by the answer or not depends on your ego.

 

I offer my respects to all BONA FIDE gurus from sampradaya what to speak of north and south, I respect them throughout the whole material creation and beyond.

 

 

 

 

Thank You for your reply, But till now you never answered any of my question. Maybe you can,t find the answer in your scriptures. Again take out your blinkers and read Scriptures and Puranas. Don't stick with your 4 or 5 books. You can tell all kinds of theory about Mayavadi. But there is no such word as Mayavadi in Sanskrit - in any of the scriptures. So the bogus will be bogus in your mind because that's all you know.

All the proper Gurus from South to North ( that includes Srila Prabhupad and Swami Yogananda, SWami Sivananda, Ammachi)are not bogus. Some teaches about merging so you call them bogus. It's a pity that you a small understanding of scriptures. Can't blame you. That's all you knew. Aren't you the one who was asking which chapter in NECTAR of Devotion that Ganesha was mentioned. aren't you the one who said you have read nectar of Devotion. May be yours might be the edited edition.

 

Please, Please, Please, Please answer my Question instead telling other Gurus teaching are bogus. ANSWER FIRST.

May Krsna's force be with you.

[Guest guest]

I am still talking to people with blinkers on. Arjuna was born again. You have read shastra and vedas and Puranas, so tell me! for the matter even Pradhalad Maharaj was born again not once but thrice. I know you will ask me back. My conclusion is that all vedas says do Ganesha puja first but only Hare Krsna's avoid them and will give all kind of excuses even though it clearly written in Nectar of Devotion. Anyway Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was in fact initiated in so called "Mayavadi" lineage. Don't try to hide a elephant in hay!

 

All your interpretation comes from one source which totally different from all the other Gurus. So if you say yours is the only right one and rest of the other sampradaya are wrong then you are on blinkers, my friend.

 

You are right. Every single one in this world who want to reach God are right in their own path. So there is no right or wrong. It is all depend whose loka you want to reach when you die. Reaching Siva loka is same as Krsna loka.

 

Anyway who do I have to believe to :

Sivaya SubramaniSwami who have seen Siva Himself or

Swami Yogananda who have real conversation with God or,

Paramahasa who was visited by Krsna himself or

you who have read 5 or 6 books and writing a long list of excuses?

 

Please don't try to answer any of the Question cause you gonna blabber more.

There is 3 types of argument,

1 we don't know anything so we argue to find out something

2 One of us knew something so we argue to teach others'

3 We argue for the sake of argument, that's not intelligent.

I found that we are one the 3rd type.

One end, you are telling every Guru, except from your ATTACHED lineage, is wrong, their interpretation of Vedas and shastra are wrong, only you are right.

 

The other end, I am telling to reach Krsna there are other way and all The GODs( Christ, Allah, Siva, Ganesha, Krsna) are the same and equal. If you want to argue about any other God, please do me a favour, read about them.

If you want to say that all the other God are demigod, please read their Puranas. I'm very sure you have not done so.

 

Readers please forgive me if I have insulted or been rude, before you jump into Hare Krsna theory please read other Gurus vedas and Shastra and judge for yourself. Cos only JCHL could interpret Demigod and Mayavadi even thoghu his lineage was started from so called Mayavadi.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

ISKON ppl doing much of business in the name of krsna. They 're too much attached.

[Guest guest]

 

ISKON ppl doing much of business in the name of krsna. They 're too much attached.

 

Before we criticise others one must work one themselves first, otherwise its called hyprocrisy. Bhagavad Gita states that spiritual advancement comes from introspection.

 

Also, in order to comment and more accurately generalise on an institution, one must travel the world and study ISKCON all throughout the world to come up with a opinion, otherwise its just a comment or a generalisation (basically not a fact).

 

Not all ISKCON people reflect the philosophy just as you go to school you will find not all students are excellent in their studies, but the main thing is that they are in School and they are bothering to learn instead of criticizing the school, so they will gain some benefit. We should learn from this example and embrace a school.

 

Srila Prabhupada's books never talk about being attached to material things. Srila Prabhupada himself is from a bona fide school of thought. There is no reason to criticise even if the tendency is there. So this is the philosophy, one should not look at the people, he should look at the source of teachings and the person behind the teachings, for he is the perfect example. and those who follow him 100% are also perfect examples.

[Guest guest]

Eveyone has experienced God in his own way.

They ( the famous swamis )have achieved their touch of knowing God by their personal experience.

They wanted to make people understand the importance of God to common people so as these common people make use of their precious life given by God.

To experience ,know God make your heart,mind and soul balanced.

Everyone is a part ,particle of God ,the soul is pure. Your goodness will eliminate your badness.Always be positive.

 

Always love ,praise God

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

 

I am still talking to people with blinkers on. Arjuna was born again. You have read shastra and vedas and Puranas, so tell me! for the matter even Pradhalad Maharaj was born again not once but thrice. I know you will ask me back. My conclusion is that all vedas says do Ganesha puja first but only Hare Krsna's avoid them and will give all kind of excuses even though it clearly written in Nectar of Devotion. Anyway Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was in fact initiated in so called "Mayavadi" lineage. Don't try to hide a elephant in hay!

 

What are you talking about? Please provide evidence for Lord Chaitanya being initiated in a Mayavadhi lineage. For a view to hold any grounds or taken seriously, evidence must be provided otherwise it remains an insignificant opinion. Again I am not saying you are wrong but opinions must be back up.

 

Ok so Arjuna and prahlad Maharaj was born again, so what? what is your argument? What do you want to prove by this?

 

I never said I have read all the puranas and the vedas, I said I have read the cream of all the vedas and puranas: The Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam, but I am unqualified so I surrender to a Guru (tad viddi parprasenna... Bhagavad Gita)

 

I think I told you more than three times, ok let me tell you once more and I wont repeat it again even when you ask me again, we do worship Ganesh to give us blessings in order to remove obstacles in the path of devotion, some devotees also keep small deity of Ganpati and carry him with them.

 

 

All your interpretation comes from one source which totally different from all the other Gurus. So if you say yours is the only right one and rest of the other sampradaya are wrong then you are on blinkers, my friend.

 

You say intrepretations are different to all the other Gurus, but if I do recall, in the matter of spirituality, the majority doesnt rule, this argument of majority rules is baseless and it is invented by this world not shastras, according the Bhagavad Gita, its the opposite, Krsna Himself says such a devotee is very rare (minority rules argument). I am backing my arguments up with shastra, I dont see you doing the same, so this discussions shouldnt even be happening.

 

Another thing, bonafide gurus all conclude the krsna has full 64 qualities and he is the original personality of Godhead, Krsnas tu Bhagavan svayam (Srimad Bhagavatam), it goes on to say that all other incarnations are expansions or plenary portions but you krsna are the original personality. So I am not denying that Lord SadaSiva is not God, He is the Godhead. Also provide evidence for you statement about other sampradayas saying one thing our Brahma sampradaya saying something else. we must be careful here, we are addressing high souled entities, Ramanuja, Vallaba, Nimbarka, madva acharyas all say Krsna is the supreme and original personality of Godhead.

 

According to Lord Brahma (the first created being) Isvara Parama krsna, Sachitananda vigraha, Anardhir adir Govinda, sarva karana karanam, Krsna is the supreme godhead, full of eternity, bliss and knowledge, He has no other cause and no one is beyond Him (Brahma Samhita).

 

 

 

You are right. Every single one in this world who want to reach God are right in their own path. So there is no right or wrong. It is all depend whose loka you want to reach when you die. Reaching Siva loka is same as Krsna loka.

 

Sivaloka and Krsnaloka is the same in your own mind maybe, but scriptures if you bother to read says the story quite differently. According to Lord Brahma who is more advance than a million of me and you put together, says that: goloka namni nija dhamni tale cha tasya...deva-mahesa-hari dhamasu tesu tesu...that Lowest of all is located as Devi-Dhama (this world), next above it is Mahesa Dhama (abode of Mahesvara) above Mahesh dhama is placed Hari-dhama (abode of Lord Hari), and above them all is located Krsna's own dhama named Gokula.

 

I could say with full faith that we dont have blinkers on because we qoute shastra coming from bona fide authorities, actually those who speculate and dont come out with any shlokas to back their intrepretations up are actually the people with blinkers on.

 

We follow shastras and bonafide authorities not who we think has seen God or not, that could be false, but we know what is not false, the words of the Lord dont lie. Jayadratha also saw Lord Siva, Duryodhana also saw Lord Krsna, does it mean they were pure? So your argument about following a certain person because he has seen God is baseless, God is meant to be heard and followed not aspired to be seen only.

 

 

 

 

Anyway who do I have to believe to :

Sivaya SubramaniSwami who have seen Siva Himself or

Swami Yogananda who have real conversation with God or,

Paramahasa who was visited by Krsna himself or

you who have read 5 or 6 books and writing a long list of excuses?

 

 

It looks to me only one of us are blabbers, the one who is speculating and not backing up anything with scriptures. I am simply repeating what my Guru maharaj says thats all, that is my only qualification, but it seems to me some of us havent even quoted any scripture and hasnt reflected the mentality of a humble student who is spiritually advanced.

 

 

Please don't try to answer any of the Question cause you gonna blabber more.

There is 3 types of argument,

1 we don't know anything so we argue to find out something

2 One of us knew something so we argue to teach others'

3 We argue for the sake of argument, that's not intelligent.

I found that we are one the 3rd type.

One end, you are telling every Guru, except from your ATTACHED lineage, is wrong, their interpretation of Vedas and shastra are wrong, only you are right.

 

 

Dont worry, I dont answer stupid questions. And newsflash, I am not arguing, you are, I am answering your questions in a civilised way possible, but it looks to me that your the aggressive one here. So you are right point number three only relates to you. Arguing for the sake of arguing is only motivated out of ego and not out of sincere endeavor to find out who God is. If you dont want questions answered, then why do you ask? You are wasting your time and others time too. The only person who doesnt want their questions answered are the ones of evil intent who have made their minds up and who want to exercise their ego and defame the institution.

 

 

The other end, I am telling to reach Krsna there are other way and all The GODs( Christ, Allah, Siva, Ganesha, Krsna) are the same and equal. If you want to argue about any other God, please do me a favour, read about them.

If you want to say that all the other God are demigod, please read their Puranas. I'm very sure you have not done so.

 

 

 

I am not saying I am right, I am saying the 4 sampradayas are right, so you are incorrect to say that these sampradayas oppose each other, they dont, because the same source imparted knowledge to all 4 exponents of the sampradayas. Christ himself said he is the son of God, the father so he says he is a devotee of the supreme lord, actually in the maha bhavisya purana it says Lord Jesus will come down and preach to the lowest of men (note that I state references unlike some people who without thinking jump to sentimental conclusion of the typical speculator thinking everything is one). Allah is another name off the Supreme Lord, Ganesha is a devata, he removes obstacles in the the path of devotion, please ask any spiritual authorised school, and Lord Siva is the formost of all devotees of Krsna, He himself is also Godhead but he doesnt exhibit His full 64 qualities, he exhibits 54 qualities of the Supreme Lord, actually He is God and is worshipable but even He says in the Padma Purana: Out of all worships, the worships of Lord Vishnu is supreme, So let us follow Lord Siva properly by following his instructions.

 

 

Readers please forgive me if I have insulted or been rude, before you jump into Hare Krsna theory please read other Gurus vedas and Shastra and judge for yourself. Cos only JCHL could interpret Demigod and Mayavadi even thoghu his lineage was started from so called Mayavadi.

Hare Krsna

 

Ah, so you are doing all this to defame the Hare Krsna and wasnt seeking answers? This was all an act. Right, ok readers, first up, everyone has individual choice (free will_, do as you please. I aint going to tell you read this or that, because first up I should be a good example myself. But please follow any of the bona fide authorities, it may not even be the hare Krsnas, maybe its the Sri (Laxmi) Sampradaya. I agree too, please judge for yourself not the intrepretations of speculators but the intrepretations as Lord Krsna wanted us to understand through His 4 lineages.

 

About the Mayavadhi thing, please provide evidence, you are just making up your mind without knowing the facts. Please inquire about spiritual topics with an open mind not a closed one. These are not my intrepretations, they are the authorities words, I am honest enough to know my limitations, but looks like you are not.