"What is Gour Govinda Maharaja's opinion?"

September 25, 2003

Ananta Das: Srila Gurudeva, when we were in Malaysia we were meeting some

disciples of Prabhupada, and they are taking shelter of Narayan Maharaja.

And they kept on asking us, "What is Gour Govinda Maharaja's opinion?" So I

really wonder what we should reply.

Gour Govinda Maharaja: They are taking shelter of Narayan Maharaja?

Ananta Das: Yes. And they are Prabhupada disciples, but they know of you.

And they were asking me what you think of this. So I was not too sure of how

to reply, so... when devotees ask like that, what should we say?

Gour Govinda Maharaja: What is your experience you may say. Why are you

asking me?

Ananta Das: Well I tell them, I don't know if that is right, what I say is

that better if you have faith in someone in ISKCON, then you stay like that

and find someone within the society. But if you cannot find anybody

anywhere, then that is what you have to do, then ... that is your choice.

Gour Govinda Swami: That is your choice. Yes.

Bhakta Rafe (later Radhanath Das): Srila Gurudeva, some disciples of

Prabhupada take siksa outside the movement. The siksa and diksa-guru are

non-different, but it seems like they may be disobeying Prabhupada's will,

because Prabhupada's will is to push on ISKCON. They are moving outside. So

what is their situation?

Gour Govinda Maharaja: What?

Ananta Das: They are disciples of Srila Prabhupada but they leave ISKCON

taking siksa outside of ISKCON.

Bhakta Rafe: Is that disobeying Srila Prabhupada's order?

Gour Govinda Maharaja: That is all discussed in the GBC body. Those who are

going to Narayan Maharaja, top leaders of ISKCON ...

Ananta Das: They are asked not to do that.

Gokuldas Das: Guru Maharaja, you have said that Narayan Maharaja is not in

the Bhaktivinoda-dhara because he is a bhajananandi. His mood is more like

that.

Gour Govinda Maharaja: We are not discussing that point. We are speaking

ISKCON and someone not in ISKCON. That is a different point. When speaking

of Vaishnavism that narrowness is not there. When the question of ISKCON

comes, then a different topic. ISKCON non-ISKCON, that is different.

Jagadish Pandit Das: But you were saying once Guru Maharaja that to hear

krishna-katha there is nothing wrong, if you go and hear from anyone.

Gour Govinda Maharaja: This [is a] question of ISKCON and non ISKCON, that

is a completely different topic. Vaishnavism is a completely different

topic. Don't jumble [mix] up.

Raghava Pandit Das: Why is it different - ISKCON and non ISKCON? Because

there should not be any difference.

Gour Govinda Maharaja: You create difference. ISKCON and non ISKCON. You

create difference.

Gokuldas Das: So Guru Maharaja, these people are asking us what Gour Govinda

Maharaja says. So if we speak about Vaishnavism and just let that enter into

their ears and then they can make up their own minds - is that okay?

Gour Govinda Maharaja: What Gour Govinda Maharaja says? Gour Govinda

Maharaja is in ISKCON. Don't say anything. (Laughs) No one can understand

it. Then it creates misunderstanding. This is very, very tricky. Tricky

fellow. If you can understand then there is no problem. Cannot understand

and now all misunderstanding is going on. Nothing else. Celo! [go!] Do you

understand. It is such a subtle philosophy. Very subtle and confidential. It

is not an easy thing.

Ananta Das: If we don't understand it properly and try to explain it, then

also more confusion can come.

Gour Govinda Maharaja: Then more confusion. What answer you gave that is

correct. That is all right. Celo! Celo!

- Darsan Singapore, 17 May 1995

========

Different devotees have different gurus. As we have our guru Srila

Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, other vaishnavas have their gurus like

Sridhara Maharaja or some other Maharaja. They may be different persons or

manifestations, still this guru-tattva is one. Sri Guru-vandana, page 35

=======

Devotee: How can we have unalloyed devotion to our guru and at the same time

also see the godbrother of our spiritual master as our spiritual master?

Gour Govinda Swami: We'll pay the same respect to him as we pay to our

spiritual master. We should not disrespect him. We should give him all sorts

of respect as we do to our guru. Still as Hanuman, says:

srinathe janaki-natha abhedah paramatmani

tathapi mam sarvasvam ramah kamala-locanah

Rama has occupied my heart. So we should not deviate from our guru, that is

unalloyedness. ... I am following the instruction of my guru. I am not

following the instruction of the godbrother of my guru. - Lecture at the

home of Hari-vilasa Das, Paris, 1987.

=========

Dear Gudakesa das

Hare Krsna. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila

Prabhupada.

Thank you for your letter, undated. I have gone through it carefully and

noted the contents.

My opinion is that Srila Prabhupada will not be happy with these senior

devotees going outside of ISKCON.

Srila Prabhupada has said that everything is in his books. If you try to

understand this, then by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada it will all be made

clear to you.

It is a fact that if an elevated Vaisnava is there, then one should go and

take his association. There is no harm in that. But in this case there is a

danger that the discipline in our organization will be affected adversely.

If the leaders are going outside of ISKCON, how will we be able to maintain

discipline? Srila Prabhupada has formed this society, and this threat to his

society will only cause him pain.

With this consideration, they should not go. That will only lead to

indiscipline in our society.

Two sides are there; philosophical and organizational. On the organizational

side, this practice is not good. Therefore we have this GBC body, which

makes so many rules to maintain the discipline of the members of our

society. But how will we be able to keep discipline now? No one will listen,

'if the leaders are going, why should we listen, we will also go'.

This will create only trouble.

May this letter find you in the best of health and a blissful mood of Krsna

consciousness.

Your servant

Gour Govinda Swami Dated 3/11/94

========

Those persons who leave the bona fide guru and go elsewhere, due to

crookedness cannot be delivered. In Skanda Purana it is said, bhumau

skhalita-padanam, bhumir evavalambanam - "If your feet slip up from the

ground, only that same ground can give you shelter." Similarly, if you have

slipped up from the lotus feet of a bona fide guru, only that guru can give

you shelter. A crooked person, who pretends to be a humble follower of the

guru, will leave that guru and go somewhere else to take shelter. But he

should understand that no one can give him shelter. It may seem that some

one may give him shelter, but that is not real shelter at all because he

cannot make any advancement there. Rather, for his offense he will

definitely fall down and go to hell. If he does not come back to his guru

and beg to be excused, his offense cannot be destroyed or counteracted. If

he is really an intelligent, simple-hearted person, he will understand this

and come back. Unless he comes back, he must be entrapped by this

crookedness. In this way, Jiva Goswami has discussed kapatya in his

Bhakti-sandarbha, and how it is a great stumbling block on the path of

devotional service. - Lecture in BBSR on 27 Nov. 1991

===========

Krishnananda Das: We have a friend who was in ISKCON and he was formally

initiated by a guru who's fallen. But out of confusion he took initiation

from a guru outside ISKCON in Gaudiya Mission and his guru is critical of

Srila Prabhupada So that boy still comes to our temple. How should we relate

to him?

Gour Govinda Swami: His guru is criticizing ISKCON?

Janeswar Das: _____ Maharaja, I've heard it before, it's _____ Maharaja

Gour Govinda Swami: ______ Maharaja, aha. He's criticizing us?

Krishnananda Das: Critical of Prabhupada. But his disciple, he comes to our

temple and associates. He is very friendly with devotees and at the same

time he keeps Prabhupada's picture in his house.

Gour Govinda Swami: How he may accepting such criticism from his guru, He'll

be in a very, very embarrassing position. He cannot be feeling happy.

Devotee: He'll be very confused.

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.

Janeswar Das: He says that his Guru Maharaja isn't critical of Prabhupada.

Some devotees say that he is critical. But he says that actually he wasn't

critical.

Gour Govinda Swami: [He says that] Because he has become his disciple. But

sadhu sastra guru they say, one should accept a spiritual master from his

own family. That means group. One should accept guru from ISKCON. Why

outside ISKCON?

Janeswar Das: Again, he was thinking there was none qualified in ISKCON.

Gour Govinda Swami: In their estimation. Their estimation, calculation like

that. . . .

Parabrahma Das: Seems if you pray hard to Krishna, Krishna will arrange for

a. . .

Gour Govinda Swami: Definitely, definitely. Krishna is there in the heart,

caitya guru will make arrangement, definitely.

- Darsan. BBSR, 29 Nov. 1989

========

They are going to Narayana Maharaja, they came to me, I said you committed

wrong, they cannot (others) understand these things so they create

disturbance. They said at last, yes what you say is true. Last time at the

end of GBC meeting they came to me and said, 'yes Maharaja what you have

said is true, 'I said, 'I told you in the beginning, you committed wrong. We

are in a society, some cannot understand, so if you want to take siksya from

an advanced devotee, do it secretly, don't expose it but they exposed. The

people cannot understand because this question of adhikar is there, they

have no adhikar, how can they understand rasika-bhakti? Raganuga bhakti? If

you are doing you should do it secretly, nobody should know it. But you

didn't do it secretly, publicly you did so these things come and it is quite

natural. At last they said, 'what you have said is correct'. - Darsana on 18

April 95.

========

Parabrahma Das: You said we should always seek the association of advanced

devotees. When Srila Prabhupada left the planet some of his disciples took

shelter of one of his godbrothers.

Gour Govinda Maharaja: Thereby they committed mistake.

Parabrahma Das: Who committed mistake?

Gour Govinda Maharaja: They left Prabhupada's mission. For the clarification

of philosophical doubt or accept some siksa from him. But why do you leave?

Parabrahma Das: Some people took shelter of this Maharaja and naturally

because he was giving some instruction they became attached to him and also

accepted him as guru, siksa guru but because of this it seems that our

society rejected them rather than they rejected our Society, in some cases.

Gour Govinda Maharaja: (voice becomes slow and grave) Let me be excused at

the feet of a vaisnava. This Maharaja is a great vaisnava. I pay my

obeisance. He is my guru, he's the godbrother of my guru but he should have

taught, he should have taught these ISKCON devotees, "Don't leave ISKCON.

Take siksa from me. You have some doubts, I clarify. I am prepared to

clarify your doubts but don't leave ISKCON." Why didn't he teach this thing?

You understand. That is real vaishnava. . . . vaisnava amani manada. . .

Mahaprabhu teaching. Give respect to others, never demands respect.

Therefore I beg excuse at his feet, he a vaisnava. You understand me?

Parabrahma Das: So its alright for Srila Prabhupada disciples to accept

another siksa guru or siksa guru, but they should not leave ISKCON?

Gour Govinda Maharaja: Why? Why should they leave ISKCON?

Parabrahma Das: Some people. . .I spoke to one devotee who had taken shelter

of Sridhara Maharaja and he said that his life was made very difficult

within ISKCON and he could no longer preach, he was so restricted.

Therefore, in order to preach, he left ISKCON.

Gour Govinda Maharaja: What difficulty is there! Preaching the message of

Gauranga Mahaprabhu!!? Mahaprabhu says, "I will help you. . . (quote) I

assure you I'll protect you, I'll help you. You'll never be affected by

maya." You have no faith in Mahaprabhu, then you'll be put into

difficulties. Understand? They have no faith in Gauranga Mahaprabhu so they

faced the difficulties. Don't be afraid of problems. Krishna is there, His

representative, Guru is there. They are always with you, do you understand.

They are always prepared to help you and these dangers, these problems,

difficulties will help you to become fixed, do you understand, to become

fixed, so they are welcome. Therefore Kuntidevi says, "vipadah santu tah

sasvat tatra tatra jagad-guro - [i wish that all those calamities would

happen again and again]. Why did she say like that?

Parabrahma Das: Because she could always remember Krishna.

Gour Govinda Maharaja: Yes. Because difficulties, dangers, problems help one

to be more attached to Krishna, and completely attached. Unless there is

difficulties, there is problems, there is dangers one should not turn his

face towards Krishna thereby I am in fools paradise, I am okay. One thinks I

am in fools paradise, I'm okay. But he's in danger. He cannot understand it.

You understand. So the difficulties, the problems, the destructions, the

dangers they are in disguise mercy - krpa. Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati

Prabhupada Maharaja said, "Accept all the sufferings in this material world

as the mercy of the Supreme Lord.

- 20.11.89 BBSR Evening Darsan

========

Devotee: I have a family member who was initiated by a guru who left ISKCON

to go with a Maharaja outside.

Gour Govinda Swami: One who left Prabhupada and went there, has committed a

great offense, an inexcusable offense at the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada.

Devotee: This guru got reinitiated, he has a different name now.

Gour Govinda Swami: That means he belittled Prabhupada. Left Prabhupada,

saying he is not a bona fide guru. That means he has committed a great

offense, an inexcusable offense. Will this Maharaja excuse his offense?

Krishna cannot, do you understand? Hari-sthane aparadhe tare hari-nama, toma

sthane aparadhe nahi paritrana If you commit an offense at the lotus feet of

Hari, hari-nama will deliver you. If you commit aparadha at the lotus feet

of a pure vaishnava, Hari cannot help you, nobody can help you. He may be

reinitiated, but that is only a farce, nothing else. Who will excuse him of

his offense? No, he cannot be excused.

Devotee: Excuse can only come from the person whom you have offended.

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes! We give one example. If a thorn is pierced through

the heel, can it be gotten out by the shoulder? In Bhakti-sandarbha Jiva

Gosvami has given this example, it is not mine. I follow the previous

acaryas. If a thorn is pierced through the heel, it cannot be gotten out

through the shoulder. It can only come out through the heel. The way he has

gotten it, do you understand? Jiva Gosvami has also quoted, bhumau

skhalit-padanam bhumir evavalambanam-if your feet have slipped on this

ground, only this ground will give you shelter, no other ground. Jiva

Gosvami has explained these things. How will this Maharaja deliver him? No,

this is only cheating, nothing else. And another vaishnava process is there:

If you want to go to another guru to have something else or some higher

teaching, get permission from the guru you have accepted. If he gives his

blessing and you go, then there is no offense. Then you'll make advancement.

But without permission, if you deviate, you commit a great blunder, a great

offense, which is inexcusable.

- Darsan in San Diego, California, 23 Jun 1992. Printed in Chapter 7 of

"Pariprasna, The Process of Inquiry"

========

You mention that many devotees are loosing faith in ISKCON and are leaving

our society to find shelter elsewhere. That is not good. They should not

leave ISKCON; that will never please Srila Prabhupada. Develop patience and

tolerance, and pray to Srila Prabhupada from the core of your heart. How is

it that he will not help you?

- Letter to Goloka Vrindavan Das, 18 Dec. 1993.

========

This Sacinandana Swami in Heidelberg, Germany, he asked me, "Maharaja, why

have you come? What is the purpose of your coming now? You have so much

bodily problem, you cannot move freely. Still you are doing alot of touring,

travelling and preaching. What is your purpose?" I said, "Maharaja, I have

dedicated my life, my body, my mind, my speech, everything I've dedicated

for the service of Guru and Gauranga. My revered spiritual master, Srimad A.

C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Maharaja has founded this International

Society for Krishna Consciousness, [this society is] like his life, his

body. He is getting so much pain now, I could feel so. After his

disappearance many left, so-called sannyasis, leaders, those who have joined

the other camp, Sridhara Maharaja camp and some other camp and they are now

criticising ISKCON, criticising Srila Prabhupada, committing such great

offense they couldn't understand, and they must get punishment for it,

definitely. But what they say, it is intolerable on my part, intolerable,

especially in Rome,

They showed me that booklet they are publishing, they have put the name of

my Guru Maharaja there, Srimad A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, then the name of

one of Prabhupada's godbrothers, then his disciple. Why have they put the

name of my Guru Maharaja?

Devotee: It's cheating.

Gour Govinda Swami: Cheating, yes they are cheating. You are publishing your

booklet, then you'll put your name. But the photo of my guru maharaja, "Guru

Maharaja said" Articles they have printed there and telling these ISKCON

devotees that Bhaktivedanta Swami taught, gave' only elementary knowledge,

ABC. He has not given any higher Vaisnava philosophy, education. Now, after

Prabhupada's godbrother has left his disciple is keeping it up, "Please come

and join." So they are just tricking and stealing the men of ISKCON. And

that is intolerable, very painful. I got such a shock in my heart. They are

fools, those who are going there. They are fools. I chastised them, "Why you

are such a fool. You believe them. You don't believe Prabhupada who

fulfilled the desire of Gauranga Mahaprabhu!

prthivi-paryanta yata ache dese-gram

sarvatra sancara haibeka mora nama [sri Caitanya Bhagavata antya 4.126:]

Who did it? Did they do it? Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada Maharaja

already sent, prior to the coming of my guru maharaja to the West, he sent

Bhakti Tirtha, Bhakti Hrdaya Bon Maharaja and some others. Why couldn't they

do? They were sannyasis, they were living in the Matha with Bhaktisiddhanta.

My guru maharaja was grhasta, he was living in his home. He was not

matha-vasi, staying in the Matha. He was not a sannyasi at that time, he was

a grhasta. But he could got the complete, full mercy of Bhaktisiddhanta,

[and] Bhaktivinoda Thakur. [srila Prabhupada was an] especially empowered

person, an empowered devotee, who could fulfill the desire of Sriman

Mahaprabhu, [and the] desire of all previous acaryas, especially

Bhaktivinoda T ha k u r.

Who came to the West? Who sowed the seed? Who laid the foundation of Krishna

Consciousness? Who fulfilled the desire of Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu?

[Prabhupada was] Specially empowered. Can't you understand this thing, why

couldn't they do this thing. Why do they come at this time and do now

[leaving ISKCON], when the atmosphere is created, the platform is there,

foundations are already laid some construction is there? Now you are going

there, leaving ISKCON camp. Such foolishness. You are such a fool. Can't you

understand this thing? Thereby they are committing such offence. [saying] He

[Prabhupada] has given only elementary knowledge ABC, nothing higher. You

can't understand what he has said. When a tiny seed is there it contains,

like the seed of a banyan tree. So tiny but it contains a great banyan tree

inside, You fool cannot understand this thing. So intolerable. As a disciple

of my guru maharaja and as member of this founded society ISKCON, it is our

duty to keep up the prestige. Yes, it is our duty now.

So, when Sacinandana Swami asked me I said this thing. Therefore I have

come, and I am now coming and touring, very extensive tour I am doing.

Sometimes we cannot eat, cannot sleep. Yes, 9 hours flight, 8 hours car

journey, no sleep, no eating. This is our life. Our life is not material

life, it is spiritual life. So many material lives we have already undergone

lahks and lahks. Why again? Life of dogs and hogs. Why again? No more! No

more! An intelligent wise person must very deeply, seriously think this up,

seriously think it up. Yes, that is my only purpose so I am coming and

teaching. I want to make them 'mum,' shut their mouth. Now there is higher

teaching in ISKCON. Yes. The time has come now. The time has come when my

Guru Maharaja, he gave everything in seed form. That seed will now be

fructified. Yes, it contains everything and you should understand. You are

so foolish you cannot understand this thing. What my Guru Maharaja said in

one word, in one sentence it needs further explanation. One word, one

sentence contains and you can't understand, you're such fools.

So I have come. No other purpose is there, no other purpose is there. No,

it's nothing personal. It's for the pleasure of Guru and Gauranga. We are

the eternal servant of Guru and Gauranga and we're meant for their pleasure,

not for our pleasure.

... I hope all of you: those who are serious, conscientious, can understand

this thing. They should take up such a vow, now. You should give up all

material life and lead a spiritual life. Thank you.

- Arrival lecture in Bhubaneswar 20 August 1992

========

Mahaprabhu said, "Sankara has helped us. He has helped us. He has laid the

foundation. Now I have to build the mansion. Mahaprabhu built the mansion,

gave the highest philosophy. This particular time, what is needed at that

time. That is what acarya does and Srila Prabhupada did that thing. You

should understand. And these rascals, they criticize him. They cannot

understand Srila Prabhupada. I say so. You are fools, you are rascals. You

can't understand what he has done. He is acarya. He has done what that

particular time needed, he has done and he has laid the foundation. Now the

time has come we have to build the mansion now. Do you understand? And these

are fools. They cannot understand Krishna. They are all fools. They are

committing such great offense at the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada they

are. Yes. Leaving ISKCON, joining other camp and criticizing ISKCON,

criticizing ISKCON teaching, Prabhupada's teaching. They are committing such

great offense at the lotus feet of Prabhupada. Yes. Giving pain. Such

rascals, they will go to hell, definitely. And those are fools they are

tricking them and these fools are going to the other camp. Nonsense. I was

saying that thing, I get so much pain in my heart. So I have taken up this.

No. Now the time has come we'll teach all this higher philosophy now. How

Prabhupada left it in a seed form, only seed form he left it. Now that seed

should be fructified, and a big tree will now come out. Yes. And that is our

duty. We have to do it. You should understand this thing. These fools cannot

understand. They are fools. Yes, definitely fools, great offenders, rascals.

- Class on Cc. adi 10.17-24 21. Bhubaneswar August 1992

========

Gour Govinda Swami: If you have committed offense to a particular vaisnava

sadhu, only he can excuse you, no body else can excuse. Only he can give you

shelter, nobody else can give you shelter. Those who are quitting and,

[saying] "Oh! Let us go there, take shelter there", they are committing this

offense. Yes. Those who are disciples of Prabhupada here in ISKCON, then

they left ISKCON, and took shelter in others camp, they committed this

offense. They [the sadhu they went to] cannot excuse [them], only he

[Prabhupada or their guru] can excuse. That sastra says. Jiva Goswami says

this thing in Bhakti Sandarbha. They are just eating dilika laddu in their

mind. Yes, yes, go, go, celo, celo. They have committed great offence. They

are great offenders. This is Guru tattva. Very confidential tattva, very

strong.

- 25/8/92 BBSR S.B 8.17.1

========

Devotee: You have to give us your blessings Maharaja.

Gour Govinda Swami: I have this blessing, "Get the blessings of my Guru

Maharaja, Srimad A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupadji Maharaja. Be a member

of ISKCON the society he founded worldwide, international society. Serve

him. Remain in the society, serve guru and gauranga. This is my blessing.

Nothing else. This is everything. Thank you.

- Darsan South London. 29 Sept. 1991

September 30, 2003

All Glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gouranga.

September 30, 2003

All glories to non-sectarian Vaisnavas who do not think that bhakti is limited only to this or that organization or institution. All glories to those Vaisnavas who instead of taking sides in offensive criticism of any other Vaishnava, devote their valuable time to chanting and remembering the Lord. All glories to each and every Vaisnava, regardless of who their guru is or which organization they join.