Talking to "Hindu" priests

[Haridham]

Hare krsna everyone.

 

This is my 100th post. Wow only yesterday i was just barely crawling. Now I have written a hundred posts.

 

ANyway...On to the show.

 

Todays episode.....Haridham talks to a "Hindu" priest.

 

Well, I had just come home from my morning japa walk and low and behold there was this "hindu" priest at my house watching tv. Anyways I siad "oh hare krsna" to which he stared blankly at me, I guess he thought i was the tv.

 

Anyways, I was heading to my room and he said "oh you are a Hare krsna devotee"? I said "ofcourse"

 

He looked at my hand which had my japa bag and just basically stared blankely at them trying to formulate in his mind what could a 23 year old(i was 23 when this happend) possibly know or do with japa or his own culture.

 

Surely I should be partying, drinking, having sex, gambling or eating meat somewhere. Kinda like his own kin. Anyways I say this because I found out later that he drinks and so do most of his family members but just is well versed in the vedas.

 

So when I came back out to go to work. He asked me "You Iskcon Hare Krsna's only worship krsna, why is that when there is the rest of the vedas you dont know aboutwhat about the Gods and goddesses and other rituals like daily puja" he continued.

 

He, with my parents seem to laugh at this 23 year old for not knowing anything. He was just like "these goras(white devotees) dont know anything".

 

So ofcourse I wasnt just going to let him get away with this.

 

I told him "well, Krsna says in the Bhagavat Gita that throught all the vedas I am to be known" I continued "he also said not to be confused by the flowery words of the vedas"

 

He just stared at me so i thought I might as well keep talking and said "See, all these pujas you do is called karma kanda and according to the gita worshiping of demigods and karma kanda is done by less intelligent people"

 

I continued "also these "goras" that you talk about have taught me more about my culture then any "hindu" ever has".

 

"plus, we are not these bodies, so when you blasphame these devotees you are commiting the worst sinful act"

 

He felt quite ashamed and i just look, you are a pundit but why dont you actually teach the main part of the vedas and not just something easy and is popular with the vedas.

 

Ofcourse him and I got to know each other more and he says he respects iskcon now.

 

I just sometimes get frustrated because these people are misleading people where as we are doing something great for society.

 

I guess if its not in their karma to recieve this knowledge what can you do.

 

We have Srila Prabhupads mercy.

 

Now i didnt write this to piss anyone off or be disrespectful to anyone. Just sharing something with devotees who probably have had similar things happen to them.

 

Hare krsna

Haridham.

 

 

 

[yasodanandana]

"I just sometimes get frustrated because these people are misleading people where as we are doing something great for society.

 

I guess if its not in their karma to recieve this knowledge what can you do.

 

We have Srila Prabhupads mercy."

 

-maybe we have to be a little more humble..

[Haridham]

I think i get the pattarn here.

 

I need to be more humble.

 

I have to definatly work on that.

 

Hare krsna

Haridham

[gHari]

I have two that always work:

 

1. Consider how humble you would be if Sri Krsna were right in front of you now. He actually is, you know.

 

2. Stare up at a starry night and become dwarfed by the universe, and realize that all this is but a tiny spark of His splendor.

[Haridham]

Now I am not changing the subject but dwarfed?

 

How did you know i was a short guy?

 

Are you making fun of my height?

 

Anyways, Yeah I know I have to be more humble. I wasnt try to say that I was better then the priest i was just defending the devotees and prabhupads movement.

 

Harekrsna.

Haridham

[gHari]

I thought you spoke nicely to the priest, especially if you showed the kindness of Krsna who makes people's faith strong in a demigod they choose so they can advance and eventually come to Him.

[Haridham]

ok, well thanks prabhu.

[gHari]

Some men do have less intelligence and more attachment, so for them Krsna is still kind as He notes in Bhagavad-gita 7.21-23:<blockquote><center>yo yo yAM yAM tanuM bhaktaH

zraddhayArcitum icchati

tasya tasyAcalAM zraddhAM

tAm eva vidadhAmy aham

</center>

yaH yaH--whoever; yAm yAm--whichever; tanum--form of a demigod; bhaktaH--devotee; zraddhayA--with faith; arcitum--to worship; icchati--desires; tasya tasya--to him; acalAm--steady; zraddhAm--faith; tAm--that; eva--surely; vidadhAmi--give; aham--I.

I am in everyone's heart as the Supersoul. As soon as one desires to worship some demigod, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to that particular deity.

 

PURPORT

God has given independence to everyone; therefore, if a person desires to have material enjoyment and wants very sincerely to have such facilities from the material demigods, the Supreme Lord, as Supersoul in everyone's heart, understands and gives facilities to such persons. As the supreme father of all living entities, He does not interfere with their independence, but gives all facilities so that they can fulfill their material desires. Some may ask why the all-powerful God gives facilities to the living entities for enjoying this material world and so lets them fall into the trap of the illusory energy. The answer is that if the Supreme Lord as Supersoul does not give such facilities, then there is no meaning to independence. Therefore He gives everyone full independence--whatever one likes--but His ultimate instruction we find in the Bhagavad-gItA: one should give up all other engagements and fully surrender unto Him. That will make man happy.

 

Both the living entity and the demigods are subordinate to the will of the Supreme Personality of Godhead; therefore the living entity cannot worship the demigod by his own desire, nor can the demigod bestow any benediction without the supreme will. As it is said, not a blade of grass moves without the will of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Generally, persons who are distressed in the material world go to the demigods, as they are advised in the Vedic literature. A person wanting some particular thing may worship such and such a demigod. For example, a diseased person is recommended to worship the sun-god; a person wanting education may worship the goddess of learning, SarasvatI; and a person wanting a beautiful wife may worship the goddess UmA, the wife of Lord Siva. In this way there are recommendations in the zAstras (Vedic scriptures) for different modes of worship of different demigods. And because a particular living entity wants to enjoy a particular material facility, the Lord inspires him with a strong desire to achieve that benediction from that particular demigod, and so he successfully receives the benediction. The particular mode of the devotional attitude of the living entity toward a particular type of demigod is also arranged by the Supreme Lord. The demigods cannot infuse the living entities with such an affinity, but because He is the Supreme Lord, or the Supersoul who is present in the hearts of all living entities, KRSNa gives impetus to man to worship certain demigods. The demigods are actually different parts of the universal body of the Supreme Lord; therefore they have no independence. In the Vedic literature it is stated: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead as Supersoul is also present within the heart of the demigod; therefore He arranges through the demigod to fulfill the desire of the living entity. But both the demigod and the living entity are dependent on the supreme will. They are not independent."

<center>

sa tayA zraddhayA yuktas

tasyArAdhanam Ihate

labhate ca tataH kAmAn

mayaiva vihitAn hi tAn

</center>

saH--he; tayA--with that; zraddhayA--inspiration; yuktaH--endowed; tasya--of that demigod; ArAdhanam--for the worship; Ihate--he aspires; labhate--obtains; ca--and; tataH--from that; kAmAn--his desires; mayA--by Me; eva--alone; vihitAn--arranged; hi--certainly; tAn--those.

Endowed with such a faith, he endeavors to worship a particular demigod and obtains his desires. But in actuality these benefits are bestowed by Me alone.

 

PURPORT

The demigods cannot award benedictions to their devotees without the permission of the Supreme Lord. The living entity may forget that everything is the property of the Supreme Lord, but the demigods do not forget. So the worship of demigods and achievement of desired results are due not to the demigods but to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, by arrangement. The less intelligent living entity does not know this, and therefore he foolishly goes to the demigods for some benefit. But the pure devotee, when in need of something, prays only to the Supreme Lord. Asking for material benefit, however, is not a sign of a pure devotee. A living entity goes to the demigods usually because he is mad to fulfill his lust. This happens when something undue is desired by the living entity and the Lord Himself does not fulfill the desire. In the Caitanya-caritAmRta it is said that one who worships the Supreme Lord and at the same time desires material enjoyment is contradictory in his desires. Devotional service to the Supreme Lord and the worship of a demigod cannot be on the same platform, because worship of a demigod is material and devotional service to the Supreme Lord is completely spiritual.

 

For the living entity who desires to return to Godhead, material desires are impediments. A pure devotee of the Lord is therefore not awarded the material benefits desired by less intelligent living entities, who therefore prefer to worship demigods of the material world rather than engage in the devotional service of the Supreme Lord.

<center>

antavat tu phalaM teSAM

tad bhavaty alpa-medhasAm

devAn deva-yajo yAnti

mad-bhaktA yAnti mAm api

</center>

anta-vat--perishable; tu--but; phalam--fruit; teSAm--their; tat--that; bhavati--becomes; alpa-medhasAm--of those of small intelligence; devAn--to the demigods; deva-yajaH--the worshipers of the demigods; yAnti--go; mat--My; bhaktAH--devotees; yAnti--go; mAm--to Me; api--also.

Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.

 

PURPORT

Some commentators on the Bhagavad-gItA say that one who worships a demigod can reach the Supreme Lord, but here it is clearly stated that the worshipers of demigods go to the different planetary systems where various demigods are situated, just as a worshiper of the sun achieves the sun or a worshiper of the demigod of the moon achieves the moon. Similarly, if anyone wants to worship a demigod like Indra, he can attain that particular god's planet. It is not that everyone, regardless of whatever demigod is worshiped, will reach the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is denied here, for it is clearly stated that the worshipers of demigods go to different planets in the material world but the devotee of the Supreme Lord goes directly to the supreme planet of the Personality of Godhead.

 

Here the point may be raised that if the demigods are different parts of the body of the Supreme Lord, then the same end should be achieved by worshiping them. However, worshipers of the demigods are less intelligent because they don't know to what part of the body food must be supplied. Some of them are so foolish that they claim that there are many parts and many ways to supply food. This isn't very sanguine. Can anyone supply food to the body through the ears or eyes? They do not know that these demigods are different parts of the universal body of the Supreme Lord, and in their ignorance they believe that each and every demigod is a separate God and a competitor of the Supreme Lord.

 

Not only are demigods parts of the Supreme Lord, but ordinary living entities are also. In the SrImad-BhAgavatam it is stated that the brAhmaNas are the head of the Supreme Lord, the kSatriyas are His arms, the vaizyas are His waist, the zUdras are His legs, and all serve different functions. Regardless of the situation, if one knows that both the demigods and himself are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, his knowledge is perfect. But if he does not understand this, he achieves different planets where the demigods reside. This is not the same destination the devotee reaches.

 

The results achieved by the demigods' benedictions are perishable because within this material world the planets, the demigods and their worshipers are all perishable. Therefore it is clearly stated in this verse that all results achieved by worshiping demigods are perishable, and therefore such worship is performed by the less intelligent living entity. Because the pure devotee engaged in KRSNa consciousness in devotional service of the Supreme Lord achieves eternal blissful existence that is full of knowledge, his achievements and those of the common worshiper of the demigods are different. The Supreme Lord is unlimited; His favor is unlimited; His mercy is unlimited. Therefore the mercy of the Supreme Lord upon His pure devotees is unlimited.

</blockquote>

Further in BG 9.23 Krsna adds:<blockquote><CENTER>ye 'py anya-devatA-bhaktA

yajante zraddhayAnvitAH

te 'pi mAm eva kaunteya

yajanty avidhi-pUrvakam

</CENTER>

ye--those who; api--also; anya--of other; devatA--gods; bhaktAH--devotees; yajante--worship; zraddhayA anvitAH--with faith; te--they; api--also; mAm--Me; eva--only; kaunteya--O son of KuntI; yajanti--they worship; avidhi-pUrvakam--in a wrong way.

Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of KuntI, but they do so in a wrong way.

 

PURPORT

"Persons who are engaged in the worship of demigods are not very intelligent, although such worship is offered to Me indirectly," KRSNa says. For example, when a man pours water on the leaves and branches of a tree without pouring water on the root, he does so without sufficient knowledge or without observing regulative principles. Similarly, the process of rendering service to different parts of the body is to supply food to the stomach. The demigods are, so to speak, different officers and directors in the government of the Supreme Lord. One has to follow the laws made by the government, not by the officers or directors. Similarly, everyone is to offer his worship to the Supreme Lord only. That will automatically satisfy the different officers and directors of the Lord. The officers and directors are engaged as representatives of the government, and to offer some bribe to the officers and directors is illegal. This is stated here as avidhi-pUrvakam. In other words, KRSNa does not approve the unnecessary worship of the demigods.

</blockquote>

[Haridham]

That was a very nice article you sent me prabhuji.

 

I know that we should respect everyone no matter what and trust me I do. Its jus that they get upset at us or me when I am chanting(on beads, on the street and by myeslf) or reading PRabhupads books and when they critize me its ok. BUt when they blasphame the devotees I cant stand that.

 

I love my devotees. I love prabhupad. WHen they critize no matter where I am if I am of hearing distance I will defend them.

 

I have heard the saying that if someone blasphames the devotess and you are there you either walk away, defend them or cut their tounges of and kill yourself.

 

Now, there are a lot of people who i would love to cut the tounges off of(hahaha just a joke) but I wont. So i rather just defend Srila Prabhupad and the house that he built.

 

Surely if someone came inside your house and was attacking it you would want to protect it right?

 

Harekrsna

Haridham

[gHari]

And then dissolve their bodies in acid, no trace at all.

[Haridham]

Haha, are you serious.

 

Cmon now.

 

anyways, tell me more if you can about what you feel about this.

 

hare krsna

 

haridham

[theist]

he ain't kidding around

[Haridham]

I would love to do that....but its illigal.

 

Damn it.

 

Plus i got no acid.

 

harekrsna

 

Haridham

[Haridham]

Hey everyone, I had an encounter with that "Hindu" priest the other day.

 

 

I was doing my Japa on near downtown on my way to school and the same priest spots me and starts talking to me.

 

I was expecting for him to try to defeat me but he was rather nice..upto a point.

 

He siad it was nice seeing me again which I replied the same. However he said something that kinda bugged me.

 

He said "you know, you are not supposed to do this, you are too young to know all this and chant, you should hang out with your friends, party(he actually said this) etc, etc, etc, these people(iskcon) have brain washed you"

 

I said "well, that is quite incorrect, I am not young at all, infact you have to realise that I am eternel, I am thousands of years old its only my body that is young. I said you as a pundit should know we are not these bodies. I said that I do agree with the brain washing part as they did wash the dirt out of my brain"

 

He doesnt like the fact that there are people who are helping me with my culture, accurate part of my culture that are westerners.

 

He just said I was a good guy and left. He did have quite a look of distain for me.

 

Anyways, what can you do

 

Hare Krsna

[Govindaram]

is to be practised when you are young,

while you have a healthy body.

 

it makes perfect sense..

 

[Haridham]

well i dont know much but whatever I know is because of the association of the devotees I had throughout my life.

 

Srila Prabhupads movement even with its issues is the best thing in the world. I know that a lot of people have issues with Iskcon but I dont see myself ever leaving iskcon, the house that praphupad built in which the whole world can live in.

 

Who else is with me. I love iskcon what about the rest of you.

 

From Ghari, theist, Myra, govindaram, Jndas(thanks for starting this website)

 

All of you I would like to hear from you.

 

hare Krsna

[Raguraman]

Hare Krishna,

 

I repeat this sloka so that I may remember my loving Lord always. I came across this in dvaita site by the grace of Acharya Madhva.

 

nAham kartA hariH kartA tatpUjA karmachaakhilam.h|

taThaapi matkR^itaa pUja tatprasaadhEna naanyaThaa|

tadbhakti tadphalam.h mahyam.h tatprasaadaat.h punaH punaH |

karmanyaasO harAvevam.h vishNOsthR^iptikaraH sadhA ||

 

"I am not the doer, shri Hari is the doer, all the actions that I do are His worship. Even then, the worship I do is through His grace and not otherwise. That devotion and the fruits of the actions that come to me are due to His recurring grace"

 

If one always practices to do actions with a dedicated spirit to Hari, in this way, it pleases Vishnu.

 

[Haridham]

I am glad I am getting feedback on this subject.

 

I am sure I will write something soon where everyone will pound on me.

 

I am sure at one point or another this has happened to all of you