Was Krishna based on Christ?

[Guest guest]

I read this in 'Gnosticism, its History and Influence' by Benjamin Walker:

"Christian missionary activity in India began at the very commencement of the Christian era. Two of Christ's disciples, Thomas and Bartholomew carried the gospel to India. By the end of the second century Christian settlements extended along the western coast of the subcontinent (Walker, I, 1968, p.238), and had already begun to have a formative influence on certain aspects of Hinduism and Buddhism. About that time too, Pantaenus (c. 1890), who had converted Clement of Alexandria, brought a gnostic form of Christianity to India.

Only a single item need be mentioned in order to illustrate the impact of gnostic thought on Hinduism. This is from the 'Bhagavad-Gita', the famous Hindu text embodying a kind of Krishna gospel. Although it has sometimes been extravagantly dated to several millennia BC, it is well established that this work could not have received its first outlines before AD300, and was in fact little heared of till the ninth century. Here we find the first clear presentation in Hindu writings of the idea of the descent of a deity incarnate in human form and assuming the qualities of the saviour of all mankind, with faith (Sanskrit, bhakti) as an essential element in the redemptive scheme.

The claims made by Krishna about himself are very much like those found in the Christian gospels: All things are made by me. I am the way. I am the light. I am the first and the last. Those who worship me with devotion are in me, and I too am in them. Here also we find the characteristic gnostic imagery, when Krishna is transfigured and appears to his disciple Arjuna in a blaze of glory, brighter than a thousand suns."

So is it true that Krishna is based on Christ?

[Guest guest]

Krishna is not based on Christ. CHrist is based on Krishna. It is not extravaganntly quoted that Bagawat Gita belongs it BC. It is actually an ancient text about 5000 years old atleast. Adhi Sankaracharya's commentary on Bagawat Gita are still there and Sankaracharya dates back before christ. So this single evidence is enough that Krishna is not based on Christ...

[anadi]

It is stated in Sri Caitanya-caritAmRta (Madhya-lila 9.234, 237–41):

 

After accepting the renounced order, Sri Sacinandana

Gaurahari resided briefly in Sri Puri-dhAma, and then began His

tour of South India on the pretext of visiting the holy places of

pilgrimage. After visiting KanyAkumAri, He arrived in the holy

place called Vetapani, located in Mallara Desha, where He had

darshana of Sri RaghunAtha and then took rest for the night. A

band of gypsies from the nomadic BhaTTathAri community, who

had made their camp there, captured KAlA-krishna-dasa, Sriman

Mahaprabhu’s servant and associate, by alluring him with

women. However, Mahaprabhu rescued him by the power of His

divine opulence, and then immediately proceeded to the sacred

banks of the Payasvini River.

After taking evening bath in the river, SrIman MahAprabhu

went for darshana of Sré Adi-Keshava. While beholding the deity,

He became absorbed in ecstatic love and began to dance, sing

and recite prayers and verses. When the scholarly devotees and

thousands of pilgrims there saw Him, they were all struck with

wonder. After taking darshana of the deity, Sriman MahAprabhu

noticed that some devotees, who were immensely learned and

realized in philosophical principles, were lecturing on this book,

the Fifth Chapter of Sri Brahma-saMhitA.

He was overjoyed to hear this devotional treatise, and after reading

only a few verses Himself, He was unable to maintain His composure.

The eight symptoms of transcendental ecstasy, such as tears,

Horripilation and trembling, became manifest.

Indeed, Brahma-saMhitä is unprecedented and unique

among the literature of the bhakti tradition. It is filled with

descriptions of the paramount glories of Svayam BhagavAn Sri

Govindadeva, (Krishna) and with knowledge of the essential reality of the

Supreme Personality and the essential reality of bhakti (lovind devotional service) . It is as if

a vast ocean has been bottled in one succinct treatise. Here one

will find the collected essence of all Vaishnava scripture, including

the Vedas,

the Puranas,

Bhagavad-gita

and Srimad-Bhagavatam.

Sriman MahAprabhu had this great literature copied very carefully,

and then He brought it back with Him to Sridhama JagannAtha Puri

Source:

Preface to Brahma Samhita by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

from the Brahma Samhita edition with the

full commentary of

S. Jiva Gosvami,

S. Bhaktivinoda Thakura,

S. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati,

Srila Bhakti Prajnana KeSava Gosvami

translated and commented by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja.

[anadi]

I have no right to say anything more about this text.

Nevertheless, I simply wish to suggest that if this literature is

accepted in the category of extremely ancient scriptures, it is

exceptional evidence to support the doctrine of krishna-bhakti.

Alternatively, one may argue that Sri Caitanya MahAprabhu must

have written it Himself, since no mention of this scripture can be

found anywhere in this region of Northern India.

If such an opinion

were to be established conclusively, what could possibly be

a greater source of joy? The reason is that, in the Vaishnava world,

every last doubt about philosophical conclusions would at once

be dispelled upon the discovery of a thesis of established

philosophical truths written personally by Sriman MahAprabhu.

Whatever one’s opinion may be,

this Brahma-SaMhita is worshipable for Vaishnavas,

and is also worthy of their thorough study.

 

Source:

Preface to Brahma Samhita by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

from the Brahma Samhita edition with the

full commentary of

S. Jiva Gosvami,

S. Bhaktivinoda Thakura,

S. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati,

Srila Bhakti Prajnana KeSava Gosvami

translated and commented by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja.

[theist]

anadi, what do these posts on Brahma samhita have to do with the topic? I'm a bit lost here. Why not a separate thread for the Brahma Samhita?

[anadi]

It is common knowledge that Sri Brahma-saMhita was not propagated

in India prior to its being collected by Sri Gaurasundara.

Rather, the literary composition that had been widely popularized

throughout the nation was Srimad-Bhagavatam, the satvata saMhita

(compilation for those in pure goodness) that was

previously spoken in NaimisharaNya.

The word brahma means

both “Veda” and also

“the factual substance or reality established by the Vedas,”

which is none other than the Supreme Personality and Enjoyer, Sri Krishna, or Sri Govinda. The understanding of the word apaurusheya (“not of human origin,” or “divine”)

is considered marginal if the word is used

to confound the mundane conception by eliminating the irrelevant (“neti neti”), but does

not refer to the Supreme Personality and Enjoyer, Sri Krishna.

 

Source:

Preface to Brahma Samhita by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati

from the Brahma Samhita edition with the

full commentary of

S. Jiva Gosvami,

S. Bhaktivinoda Thakura,

S. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati,

Srila Bhakti Prajnana Gosvami

translated and commented by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja.

[anadi]

The guest should understand things like

mundane researchers

their faulty way of evidence

party like inclination...

 

and the evidence from the saints, self realized persons

as Sriman Mahaprbhu who colected a series of prayers spoken

at the dawn of creation by Lord Brahma in establishing Sri Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

In this way he might understand the message of Bhagavad-gita

to some extent, in some future lifes perhaps.

For the moment he is very dependent on the materialistic evidence, because of lack of sukriti and samskaras.

 

So some evidence from Brahma would be something.

[anadi]

Sri Caturmukha (four headed) BrahmA discarded mundane considerations

from within the Vedas, which are called apaurusheya (of divine

origin), and then described in a saMhita (compilation) of one

hundred chapters whatever essence of pure bhakti he had been

holding in his heart in connection with the Supreme Enjoyer, Sri Krishna .

Among those chapters, this Fifth Chapter is most worshipable for

Gaudiya VaiSNavas because it is extremely practical and advantageous

for the living entity. Especially from the point of view of

the Sri Brahma sampradAya, the factual substance of reality has

been revealed in the four original verses of Srimad-BhAgavatam

by the mercy of BhagavAn.

 

Preface to Brahma Samhita by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati

from the Brahma Samhita edition with the

full commentary of

S. Jiva Gosvami,

S. Bhaktivinoda Thakura,

S. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati,

Srila Bhakti Prajnana KeSava Gosvami

translated and commented by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja.

 

[Kulapavana]

There are quite a few scholars who think that Jesus of Nazareth received much spiritual training in India (you can google tons of stuff on this subject). His concept of God much more resembles the Vedic version than the Old Testament crude spirituality. The word Christos is something his disciples had developed. Jesus never used it himself. He had to preach in a somewhat criptic way, as anybody who dared to chalenge the Torah (Old Testament or rather the Jewish Law scriptures) would have been stoned to death immediatelly...

[theist]

From your above posts it appears the authenticity of the Brahma Samhita as regards to its date of authorship is in question itself so I can't see how it proves anything.

 

Anyway I myself don't care if the SB and Brahma Samhita fell from sky yesterday. It's the self-effulgent truth they contain that I am trying to get the eyes to see.

 

As far as Krsna's words and Christ's words I am not surprised they speak a similar if not exact message. That for me is just a further conformation of both although they can also be seen as standing on Their own in the respect we are speaking of.

 

To go further I don't even care if Krsna-lila is 'literal' in a 3D sort of way or not. For all I know Krsna may have appeared and displayed these truths of Himself through the mind of the author.

 

What is so-called fiction or imaginative writing from our viewpoint is really Absolute Truth when Krsna advents in that form.

 

It would make no difference to me because I accept that all Krsna's energies are equally under His control and He can advent Himself any way He chooses with no loss of attractive or self-revealing potency.

 

Just my speculations of course and I don't expect or even ask that anyone else take them seriously.

[anadi]

It is stated in the first verse of the

Srimad-BhAgavatam:

 

janmAdyasya yato ’nvayäd itarataS cArtheZv abhijnaH svarAT

tene brahma hRdA ya Adi-kavaye muhyanti yat sUrayaH

tejo-vAri-mRdAM yathA vinimayo yatra tri-sargo ’mRSA

dhAmnA svena sadA nirasta-kuhakaM satyaM paraM dhimahi

 

Srimad-BhAgavatam (1.1.1)

 

I meditate upon Sri Krishna, who is the Absolute Truth and the original

cause of the creation, maintenance and annihilation of the

mundane universes. He is directly and indirectly conscious of all

manifestations, and He is independent, because there is no other

cause beyond Him. It is He who first imparted the Vedic knowledge

unto the heart of Brahmaji, the original (first)living being. By Him

even great sages and demigods are placed into illusion, as one is

bewildered by the illusory representations of water seen in fire, or

land seen on water. Only because of Him do the material universes,

temporarily manifested by the reactions of the three modes

of nature, appear factual, although they are unreal. I therefore

meditate upon Him, Sri Krishna, who is eternally existent in the transcendental

abode, which is forever free from the illusory representations

of the material world. I meditate upon Him, for He is

the Absolute Truth.

 

Preface to Brahma Samhita by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati

from the Brahma Samhita edition with the

full commentary of

S. Jiva Gosvami,

S. Bhaktivinoda Thakura,

S. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati,

Srila Bhakti Prajnana KeSava Gosvami

translated and commented by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja.

 

 

 

 

[anadi]

The transcendental abode (dhAma) referred to here is categorically

distinct from any material location. The word dhAma

means “shelter” and also “light.” One cannot see without light,

and this verse confirms that the basis of illumination is a Person

who is the object of worship, and is seen by the very same light.

The foundation of illumination, the Supreme Transcendental

Enjoyer Sri Krishna, exists splendidly and eternally along with His

paraphernalia in the supramundane dhAma that lies beyond all

comprehension of the conditioned souls who are entangled in

transitory relationships within the material nature.

In the impersonal conception, the seer and the seen are ultimately

considered to be one. This conception has arisen on the

basis of the experience of limitation and incompleteness in the

mundane realm, but this experience is irrelevant.

The deluding material potency cannot disable her own controller, Vishnu

(The form of God who controls and maintain the material world,

the expansion of Lord Narayana, who is the Supreme Lord of Vaikuntha,

no other than Lord Krishna in His opulent mood) and equipped with immeasurable power. The impersonal conception, which is thoroughly

mundane, has been ousted entirely by the considerations

described in the Fifth Chapter of this treatise.

 

Preface to Brahma Samhita by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati

from the Brahma Samhita edition with the

full commentary of

S. Jiva Gosvami,

S. Bhaktivinoda Thakura,

S. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati,

Srila Bhakti Prajnana KeSava Gosvami

translated and commented by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja.

 

[Guest guest]

was Spiderman based on Hulk?

[Guest guest]

From your above posts it appears the authenticity of the Brahma Samhita as regards to its date of authorship is in question itself so I can't see how it proves anything.

 

For the materialists it cannot prove anything.

Faith is not a cheap thing!

Real faith comes in the heart when the moods of the six fold surrender, Sharanagati, already estabhlished there.

[Guest guest]

The records of The history of India was lost several times due to invasion of differnt people at different times and they were changed as per the convenience of different invaders to stress their theory or hypothesis. So no body is able to prove the birth time of Krishna. Leaving behind whether He was actually born or everything is just a story written by Vyasa, one needs to have Divine blessings to write such a vast thing without any slog in any character. that Divine is worshipped as Krishna. It does not matter whether He existed as Human on this earth or not, He invariably comes even now to people who absolutely beleives in Him beyond any humanly perceivable doubt. The origin of hinduism cannot be dated properly and it certainly existed bbefore christ came to earth. Whether Krishna is Narayana or Narayana is Krishna, the Divinity is certainly true and it has been felt by people at different times.

It does not matter to me whether Krishna existed or not, but He comes whenever I call Him. So He is real to me. He resides in the minds of people although His evidence for His Human form is not clear or lost in course of several invasions.

[theist]

I would find it interesting to know of what parrelles there might have been written concerning their lives.

 

Both had death contracts on Their lives placed on Them before Their birth by the local rulers for instance.

 

BTW way just to clarify when I mention Krsna appearing in someone's mind I certainly wasn't meaning He appeared FROM someone's mind. Just that He could use such a vehicle if He so chose to.

 

Not to be confused with some author was inspired by his contact with the impersonal Brahman and transcribed that formlessness into a story of form for our minds to grasp it. I firmly accept Krsna being the cause of the impersonal brahmjyoti.

[Guest guest]

I just posted a question for you in a separate thread. Is there any Historical and archaeological evidence for Mosses and how red sea gave way to him. also any evidence for appearance of God in front of mosses and gave him the ten commandments. Why do you guys still beleive in it since it has no practical evidence

[anadi]

The trend of thought presented in Brahma-saMhitA is worthy

of our profound investigation. We should therefore distance ourselves

from the mundane point of view, in which scriptural

descriptions of instrumental and ingredient causes may be considered

to be indecent. This scripture was not contrived for the

sake of delighting the minds of crude persons through vulgar

devices. Rather, it has manifested for the purpose of infusing

spiritual strength into the hearts of those who are debilitated by

the onslaught of their own perverse inclinations.

 

Preface to Brahma Samhita by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati

from the Brahma Samhita edition with the

full commentary of

S. Jiva Gosvami,

S. Bhaktivinoda Thakura,

S. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati,

Srila Bhakti Prajnana KeSava Gosvami

translated and commented by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja.

[bhaktachris]

Hare Krsna Prabhus,

Read the Aquarian Gospel Jesus the Christ,(Prabhupada did). In this book you can read about Jesus the Christ pastimes in India. This book is a bona fide Bible.Very interesting and full of spiritual knowledge.

 

Wow! we have a lively thread going on about the Brahma Samhita and little about the Subject.

[yasodanandana]

"Read the Aquarian Gospel Jesus the Christ,(Prabhupada did)"

 

 

??????????????

[anadi]

The doctrine of the worship of five deities

(Sürya, Ganesha, Siva, Durga and Vishnu are worshiped together

in the system known as paNcopAsanA) was created as a

result of a distorted vision of the substance of Godhead. This

incorrect vision arose from the predominant pursuit of four conceptions,

namely ordinary (material directed) religiosity,

economic development,

sense gratification

and liberation.

The five concluding verses of

Brahma-saMhitä convey this point clearly and meticulously, and

also elucidate the genuine philosophy concerning the substance

of Godhead. By the grace of Sudarshana (the original auspicious

vision of BhagavAn), one may acquire eternal wisdom through

careful study of these verses. The attainment of such wisdom renders

one entirely devoid of antagonism towards the conception

of Sri DhAma (the spiritual abode, full of all transcendental opulence).

This antagonism is manifest as the tendency to propagate

the defective philosophy that the Absolute Truth is formless and

impersonal.

By good fortune one may be acquainted with the unique qualities

of the self-effulgent transcendental abode that lies beyond

Devi-dhAma and Mahesha-dhAma.

That abode is nirasta-kuhaka, devoid of the darkness of nescience.

The affairs of transcendence

lie beyond material nature, and there is no room for the relative

deception of the mundane world in that realm of eternal joy. It is

for this reason that the treatise describing this transcendental

phenomenon is called ApauruSeya-saMhitA.

 

Preface to Brahma Samhita by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati

from the Brahma Samhita edition with the

full commentary of

S. Jiva Gosvami,

S. Bhaktivinoda Thakura,

S. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati,

Srila Bhakti Prajnana KeSava Gosvami

translated and commented by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja.

[Guest guest]

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vedic-age_fs.html

[anadi]

Human beings whose hearts are polluted can be delivered

from the tendency to enjoy inert matter by the power of the

process of devotional service in practice (sAdhana-bhakti).

It is impossible for those who are ensnared in mundane sense enjoyment

to take shelter of pure devotion.

Such persons are only fit to undergo distress

while being confined to the field of fruitive activities in the material world.

The living entity’s lusty desires for material enjoyment can only be dispelled

by singing the glories of KAmadeva, the transcendental Cupid.

However, if one equates this excellent KAmadeva with the inferior mundane lust,

one will suffer an adverse effect instead of deriving benefit.

Our recitation of Brahma-saMhitA will be considered successful

when we become the followers of Caturmukha BrahmA

and attain the mercy of BhagavAn (the Lord),

and when we can become the receptacles of love of God

through singing these divine hymns in praise of Sri Krishna.

Preface to Brahma Samhita by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati

from the Brahma Samhita edition with the

full commentary of

S. Jiva Gosvami,

S. Bhaktivinoda Thakura,

S. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati,

Srila Bhakti Prajnana KeSava Gosvami

translated and commented by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja.

 

[theist]

Actually Prabhupada did read it and quoted from it. He used it for his preaching and as far as I know never gave a 100% stamp of approval.

[bhaktachris]

Hare Krsna Prabhus,

 

As far as reading this, i actually would recomend doing that reading with the help of a devotee if you are not "fixed up" in Krsna con. I read it and found some of it against our philosophy and then talked with a devotee friend to understand what was being said in certain cases. The pastimes of Jesus the Christ in India especially.