Cher's Tough Love Turns Son Into Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

Question: Would ISKCON allow Elijah Cher's son in with his aforementioned "Habits" if he were not son of very wealthy parents?

 

Discuss.

[Priitaa]

Why not? Who here has not sinned? Anyone can join, but everyone, even those famous who move in, must give up their bad habits. I doubt he would move into a temple tho. But to think wealth or fame would have anything to do with it - well, that has never been anything I've ever seen.

 

With that said, I never heard that her son was showing an interest in Krishna consciousness. Does anyone have an editorial to prove it? Thanks.

[Guest guest]

He doesn't live in the temple, he just visit sometimes.

[Priitaa]

Well then, thats not really whats meant by 'joining' ISKCON, at least not in this context. And, ya can't stop people from visting. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

We should be happy for everyone who visits the temple, regardless of their bad habits. At least they have started on the path of spiriutal life.

[atma]

He is a nice guy who likes the devotees, Prabhupada's books and chanting. He loves maha-prasadam and bring his girl along for more maha.

Why this guest wants to criticize because some famous people come to the temple and have association with devotees? What is wrong is the devotees preach to them? Should the devotees denied access to Prabhupada, deities, prasada and philosophy because of their status?

 

If I see any singer, actor, comedian or even Monica Lewinsky at Govinda's I give the same treatment that anyone else, Prabhupada's bhajans, darshan of the deities throught the Webcam and nice reception. Some of them I recognize and many others I don't, still they will hear Srila Prabhupada. What is wrong if they like it?

[Haridham]

See i think People are envious because krsna conscioussness is supported by many famous people. It bugs them ofcourse because they cant stand iskcon or the philosophy so they fault find.

[stonehearted]

Friends say Elijah moved into a tiny, dingy one-bedroom apartment in Culver City a few blocks away from the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, where he eats two free meals a day and chants constantly.

[stonehearted]

http://www.vnn.org/world/WD0310/WD07-8392.html

 

Excerpt: Friends say Elijah moved into a tiny, dingy one-bedroom apartment in Culver City a few blocks away from the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, where he eats two free meals a day and chants constantly.

 

Babhru's editorial comment: Someone really seems to have a burr in their saddle about ISKCON supposedly giving special breaks to celebrities. Give it a rest! Look inward. Chant--be happy.

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry if anyone took offense. When I read the website on vnn it sounded like he was a congregational member. And I thought to myself how do they accept them so freely, while people of other missions (of all qualification levels) suffer worse ostrasizing and negative treatment then people coming to temple who apparently don't follow principles. But airing out thoughts like these apparently generates discord so I won't do it anymore.

[Guest guest]

people get ostracized when they are offenders, no matter what mission they come from or who's son they are.

Get your facts straight.

[Guest guest]

Remember how compassionate Srila Prabhupada was with fallen disciples, he always took them back but with offenders he was very angry.

[theist]

>>And I thought to myself how do they accept them so freely,... <<

 

There are NO qualifiers to chanting God's holy names.

 

This is a very important point, actually it is an essential point.

 

All this pushing of the four regs. on new people is simple setting up stumbling blocks.

 

Also this pressure to pledge allegiance to a specific 'guru' "pick a guru, any guru just gotta have a guru in a body, hurry up get a guru"

 

Please, we should just encourage others to chant and associate, take prasada and be happy. Other things will come about in due course. Supersoul is running the show not us.

[livingentity]

We need to take care and remain compassionate otherwise people will be chased off from Krishna Consciousness for minor infractions that the chanting of the Holy Names will eventually clean from their hearts.

 

How many people truly start practicing Krishna Consciousness and immediately stop all bad habits? Instead, of jumping on the fact that Elijah Blue still has sex with his girlfriend we should be happy to hear that he is so enthused about chanting and visiting the temple. The rest will come as he chants.

 

At least he is honest about it and not walking around pretending to be the instant pure devotee.

[livingentity]

Believe it or not there are people frantically running around asking anyone that half way sounds authoritative, "Will you be my guru?"

 

"HEY I NEED A GURU...Anyone out there...will you be my guru?" LOL........

 

Geez....this pressuring some people is creating a monster.

[stonehearted]

Guest: I'm sorry if anyone took offense. When I read the website on vnn it sounded like he was a congregational member. And I thought to myself how do they accept them so freely, while people of other missions (of all qualification levels) suffer worse ostrasizing and negative treatment then people coming to temple who apparently don't follow principles. But airing out thoughts like these apparently generates discord so I won't do it anymore.

 

Babhru: I think you might be able to consider him a congregational member indeed. Doesn't that mean someone who lives nearby and comes to particpate in the temple's programs?

 

I agree with your concern over how easily devotees whose guru is from "outside" ISKCON are ostracized. That's one reason I like living here on the Big Island. No ISKCON temple=no banning.

 

Feel free to express yourself, but be grown up enough to expect disagreement on the rare occasion. /images/graemlins/wink.gif Someone (a guest--you, perhaps?) asked for discussion. Is it okay for me to have an opinion, too? The strength of my "editorial" is due to recent criticism by a(nother?) guest of devotees referring to that cigarette-smokin', car-racin', stubble-growin' George Harrison as a devotee. If you feel I overreacted, I apologize. Accept my opinions as just one slob's voice, not any sort of edict.

[Priitaa]

Thanks Babru prabhu, for posting that VNN editorial. I seldom go to VNN, or even chakra for that matter, so it was good to read this. I wonder how Cher feels about her sons involvement. It would be great if she was as open to this as she is to everything else. Maybe over time. Nice if she eventually included the chanting of Hare Krishna in her songs, but I have a hard time envisioning that, yet not impossible. Even Madona showed a picture of Baby Krishna in one of her movies. Unfortuantely she lost interest to a degree and is now very into Judiasm, which would be fine if she hasn't found Krishna first. Oh well, advancement is always made. Anyhow, I hope Cher is supportive and doesn't see us as a cult. Although sometiems we oursleves see it as a cult. ha But not the true knowledge, and that is what I am referring to. -- Enough of my run-on sentenced and paragraphs to an English teacher! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[stonehearted]

Cher will probably get some prasadam along the way. And Madonna's story isn't over. Here's a little nectar from Srimad-Bhagavatam for us all to consider:

 

tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer

bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi

yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim

ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah

 

One who has forsaken his material occupations to engage in the devotional service of the Lord may sometimes fall down while in an immature stage, yet there is no danger of his being unsuccessful. On the other hand, a nondevotee, though fully engaged in occupational duties, does not gain anything. (1.5.17)

na vai jano jatu kathancanavrajen

mukunda-sevy anyavad anga samsrtim

smaran mukundanghry-upaguhanam punar

vihatum icchen na rasa-graho janah

 

My dear Vyasa, even though a devotee of Lord Krsna sometimes falls down somehow or other, he certainly does not undergo material existence like others [fruitive workers, etc.] because a person who has once relished the taste of the lotus feet of the Lord can do nothing but remember that ecstasy again and again.

PURPORT

A devotee of the Lord automatically becomes uninterested in the enchantment of material existence because he is rasa-graha, or one who has tasted the sweetness of the lotus feet of Lord Krsna. There are certainly many instances where devotees of the Lord have fallen down due to uncongenial association, just like fruitive workers, who are always prone to degradation. But even though he falls down, a devotee is never to be considered the same as a fallen karmi. A karmi suffers the result of his own fruitive reactions, whereas a devotee is reformed by chastisement directed by the Lord Himself. The sufferings of an orphan and the sufferings of a beloved child of a king are not one and the same. An orphan is really poor because he has no one to take care of him, but a beloved son of a rich man, although he appears to be on the same level as the orphan, is always under the vigilance of his capable father. A devotee of the Lord, due to wrong association, sometimes imitates the fruitive workers. The fruitive workers want to lord it over the material world. Similarly, a neophyte devotee foolishly thinks of accumulating some material power in exchange for devotional service. Such foolish devotees are sometimes put into difficulty by the Lord Himself. As a special favor, He may remove all material paraphernalia. By such action, the bewildered devotee is forsaken by all friends and relatives, and so he comes to his senses again by the mercy of the Lord and is set right to execute his devotional service.

In the Bhagavad-gita it is also said that such fallen devotees are given a chance to take birth in a family of highly qualified brahmanas or in a rich mercantile family. A devotee in such a position is not as fortunate as one who is chastised by the Lord and put into a position seemingly of helplessness. The devotee who becomes helpless by the will of the Lord is more fortunate than those who are born in good families. The fallen devotees born in a good family may forget the lotus feet of the Lord because they are less fortunate, but the devotee who is put into a forlorn condition is more fortunate because he swiftly returns to the lotus feet of the Lord, thinking himself helpless all around.

Pure devotional service is so spiritually relishable that a devotee becomes automatically uninterested in material enjoyment. That is the sign of perfection in progressive devotional service. A pure devotee continuously remembers the lotus feet of Lord Sri Krsna and does not forget Him even for a moment, not even in exchange for all the opulence of the three worlds. (1.5.19 & purport)

[Guest guest]

I am not the same guest who started this thread. I am the guest who questioned the George Harrison publicity a while ago.

 

I am going to reveal something in confidence about my mind on these issues, because devotees are supposed to be calm, understanding, compassionate, and thoughtful, and thus they should consider what I say carefully before beating me over it. Either way I'm going to get beat up over it though, but I can't keep this in the closet forever.

 

I really think these celebrities are using ISKCON only to dump it later. Madonna did it. Boy George did it. George Harrison sort of did it.... well, I'm not as sure about him. But Xena did it. And Aerosmith did it. I think they are all (some inadvertently) making fools out of ISKCON devotees. ANd I think ISKCON devotees who stop speaking Hari-katha just to instead speak Madonna-katha or Boy George-katha, Xena-katha or whatever, are just making fools out of themselves and wasting their time.

 

I know I'm going to be flamed for saying this, but I will say it anyway, in the hopes that either someone will cure me of my foolishness, or perhaps that my thoughts might make others think of all this in a different way.

 

I don't think that ISKCON praise of celebrities who seem interested in Krishna-consciousness is based on the desire to see pure devotional service promoted. I think, rather, that such praise of celebrity endorsement is motivated by a sense of affirmation which these "mainstream" public figures provide. What I mean is, ISKCON devotees, like other Hindus, seem to have a sense of embarassment about their customs and lifestyle, and seem to hide a very subtle inferiority complex vis-a-vis other "normal" religions and even the "normal" mainstream. Thus, having such mainstream figures take up Krishna beliefs makes Krishna devotees less insecure about their beliefs and customs.

 

I will give a very similar example. There are some Shaivite yogis from Hawaii who publish a magazine called Hinduism Today. This magazine is well published, but astonishingly lacking in substance. The magazine editors and readership also have this same inferiority complex vis-a-vis Western culture. Everytime there is even a hint of an Indian or Hindu reference in the mainstream media, the Hinduism Today editors immediately right a big article about it, the theme of which is "see, see, even now Hinduism is being greatly admired by the West!" There was some Hollywood movie some years back about a guy who went to Hell. The HT editors wrote an article that talked about how this concept of hell was very similar to the Hindu concept of Hell, so therefore HOllywood obviously admires Hinduism. Another example was some cartoon that featured a character who wanted to become vegetarian. HT also wrote an article about how this was due to their "Hindu influence" on the West (which was really funny, since HT never made vegetarianism out to be a necessary prerequisite for being Hindu).

 

Like that, I kinda sense that ISKCON people are similarly enamored with popular people because they have their own deep rooted insecurities. And when I see them bowing before these celebrities, I kind of feel disgusted, seeing all these great principles which inspire me so, being made subordinate to some mundane individual's popularity. It's harder and harder for me to relate to ISKCON when I see these things.

 

I know. I am fault finding. Please forgive me. I am just a worm in stool. I have no good qualities. I am not a devotee. I will never be a devotee. I will probably just go to Hell. I'm not even qualified to be the footstool for a devotee's dog. So please don't mind my ramblings. I have no knowledge, no devotion, no intelligence, and no good fortune. And I'm wasting my time by even posting this, because I'm not reading any Krishna-katha while I type this. SO I should stop this nonsense now. Please forgive me my stupidity. Please take this time now to call me names, throw stones, accuse me of saying something I did not, and make fun of me. Whatever it is, I deserve it because its my karma. Sorry to be a bother.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

I know. I am fault finding. Please forgive me. I am just a worm in stool. I have no good qualities. I am not a devotee. I will never be a devotee. I will probably just go to Hell. I'm not even qualified to be the footstool for a devotee's dog. So please don't mind my ramblings. I have no knowledge, no devotion, no intelligence, and no good fortune. And I'm wasting my time by even posting this, because I'm not reading any Krishna-katha while I type this. SO I should stop this nonsense now. Please forgive me my stupidity. Please take this time now to call me names, throw stones, accuse me of saying something I did not, and make fun of me. Whatever it is, I deserve it because its my karma. Sorry to be a bother.

 

 

 

I also forgot to add... I'm envious. I am envious of devotees, of iskcon, of all vaishnavas, and of krishna. I am a snake who can do nothing other than spit poison. Even saying that is an insult to all living entities in snake bodies. So please don't mind my rascal fingers typing these nonsense messages.

 

[Haridham]

Hare Krsna, You are preety much way off.

 

We dont have an complexes. The reason these sadhus in hawaii produce such articles is because their lack of knowledge. The fact they call the magazine Hinduism today shows that. In fact the word hindu is never mentioned in the sastras.

 

THese celebrities arent always serious about spiritual life and are searching. Sure Madonna seemingly "used" Iskcon but in actuality its krsna giving her mercy. We know the lifestyle of madona or other celebrities. They just have to be serious. Even if they come to the temple for a second and end up hating the experiance and never come again or tell their friends never to come again they still have benefited from seeing krsna.

 

 

You should also note that all their fame is by the mercy of krsna. So if they even try to serve krsna for a moment they are more fortunate the fortunate.

 

Even krsna says in the gita that Whatever a great man does, common men will follow. So if a celebrity shows interest in krsna then regular people will also.

 

I know many people that because of the same madonna we all know came to the temple in vancouver after she did her performance on some music awards a few years ago. They still come and Madonna doesnt. Madonna made some devotees. Wether it be knowingly or un knowingly.

 

If you take one step towards krsna, krsna will take ten steps towards you.

 

You are not waisting your time, I think this is krsna's mercy upon you to clarify your doubts and questions. This just challenges us devotees to serve krsna by clarifying things for you.

 

Hare Krsna

Haridham

[gHari]

Guest, once in the last paragraph when you finally realized how shallow and envious it is to have these opinions, why did you then bother to proceed to hit the POST key? Seems if you were sincere about your realization that you were being an arrogant fool ridiculing everyone in sight, that you could have acted upon this revelation from Supersoul and just walked away.

 

I think when we get personally upset with someone's behaviour it means we wish we could be like them, but unfortunately we have to be austere, because that is our new self-image, we are now yogi, muni, sage. Then we are only externally renounced, still desiring to watch TV and party down, dude.

 

If all we can see is the outside, then perhaps we cannot see our own internal flaws, which may well be more offensive to Sri Krsna than the external flaws of the person we try to ridicule. How do we know if we are indeed superior, in a position to lord it over them?

[stonehearted]

Guest: I am the guest who questioned the George Harrison publicity

a while ago.

 

Babhru: That's what I thought. I agree with much of what you say about the relationship between celebrities and many devotees. The crux is what the motive is for praising celebrities' involvement with Krishna consciousness. If it's to encourage them, because we actually see them as poor, as Srila Prabhupada often explained, and because others might be inspired by their example (yad yad acharati sresthah), then that praise is well placed. If it's because devotees are awed by someone beautiful and famous coming to their temple (restaurant, whatever), then it's a problem. Then you get just what you complained of: Sting-katha, not Krishna katha. We sometimes get updates from Atma here, which I think are okay. I also get celebrities-at-the-la-temple updates from Badrinarayan.

 

I'm less sure about generalizing about the celebrities' motives. They're all different. Harrison apparently took much to heart over a long period. Hayley Mills and her son Crispin, too, and many others. Madonna, as far as I know, wasn't closely connected with ISKCON per se, but was receiving some instruction from one of our preachers who works outside ISKCON. Her yoga teacher is a young man I know from San Diego who is also a devotee. And just beacuse these people's involvement with Krishna consciousness isn't really public, because they don't have Entertainment Tonight come with them to mangal-arati and Bhagavatam class at your local ISKCON center, or even because they also are interested in other things (as in Madonna and Kabala) doesn't mean they have cast Krishna conscioiusness aside or that they intended to make fools of the devotees. Everyone has a different adhikar, different karma to deal with. Many of these folks are genuinely attracted to the holy name or other features of our programs, sense something there that will help them make sense of life, then become either disillusioned by our goofiness or distracted by the call of the mind and senses, just as many of us have.

 

And don't feel so smug about your worminess and enviousness of devotees and their dogs' footstools (?); I'm in there swimming around right next to you. You may not be in good company, but you have plenty of it.

 

I hope I didn't disappoint you by not roasting you.

 

 

[Priitaa]

I agree that devotees can be dazzled by celebrities like anyone else. I do think tho, the minute a celebrity (who shows an interest in Krishna consciousness) becomes obnoxious or offensive, the devotees would no longer give a hoot about them. If anything, they would not be the least bit dazzled, because while that may have been there minutely, as devotees may be tinged in this way, but predominately they just get happy to see someone who is famous is taking to Krishna consciousness. There is always the underlying desire that once this celebrity becomes purified, they will help spread Prabhupada's teachings and the MahaMantra. Always.

 

For myself, I guess this may be a confession, but for decades I did not realize how much of a devotee George Harrision was. A couple of times (long ago) I even called him a fringie (please forgive me George and the assembled Vaisnavas). I only knew what I had been told.

 

A few years prior to his passing over, I began to reconsider, but still did not know much about him at all. So its not as if I was dazzled, as living in the ashrama I was taught he was 'somewhat' of a devotee, but his music, etc., was not for us and just for the 'karmi's. Not that I agree with that now, but as a new devotee I didn't know enough to argue. As an older devotee, I just didn't think about him much.

 

Sooner or later everything we have made a mistake over comes to a head and must be reevaluated. So as I said, I 'started' to do this a little a few years prior to his passing. But when he passed, I did not expect it 'quite' that soon, was shocked, and wound up doing research into his spirutal life.

 

I had no idea how fondly Srila Prabhupada thought of him! My memory is failng me at the moment; maybe I should go get some quotes. Nah, later. Anyhow, for exmaple, one devotee who is d to my newsletter sent an email. He said he was in England at the time George donated the Manor/temple to us, and that he himself heard Prabhuapda say (rough quote) "George has given Krishna a home in the material world, so Krishna will give George a home in the spiriutal world." !! Another devotee spoke to my husband, said he talked with George, and George personally told him Prabhupada said for certain he (George) would go back to Godhead! There was so much information like that being revealed at the time. Which also birngs me to my next point.

 

One reason many only know the fallen side of George and not his good and spiriutal qualities, is because he did not want them known. He did not want any glorificaiton. Even I once read a conversation where Prabhupada told him he had many followers, but George replied he did not want followers. So after his passing, that is when information about him became more easily attainable. Suddenly I was receiving quotese in the mail where Prabhuapda said George was more than his disciple, that Goerge did not need to take formal initiation, etc. When George was alive he would even preach in public on tv and such, especially in the beginning of the movement. He was giving his friends bead bags, etc.

 

I had not realized it until after his passing, but he was pretty much one of us. Matter of fact, he was quite instrumental in getting the movement started in England! I felt offensive for viewing him as a fringie all those ummm decades actually, so in his honor I made a web page, a tribute to his leaving this world, and in hopes I can be forgiven.

 

To those who think George Harrision was taking advantage of ISKCON or us, do the reseach, as that is not the case at all.

 

To those who think all the other celebrities take advantage of devotees or ISKCON, well, first we are pretty hard to take advantage of. Ever live in a temple or even close by? It aint easy. lol But the more important point is that any degree of Krishna consciousness they achieve in this life is all that matters. So what if they later go in another direction. They have started. This is something Prabhuada taught us and I must admit, I dont see this to be part of Hindu philosophy or teachings, but please correct me if I am wrong, as I mean no offense. Simply that Prabhupada gave his mercy to anyone and never discriminated, even if they would only serve Krishna temporarily he saw it as progress in their spirutal life. They picked up where they left off, and if they do not progress further by the end of this life, they will again pick up where they left off next time around. So, there is no loss, only gain.

[Guest guest]

 

had not realized it until after his passing, but he was pretty much one of us.

 

 

It's pretty interesting though that he didn't want to leave anything else for any Krishna societies at the end. I also thought it odd that his family was upset at rumors suggesting he was going to leave money for iskcon, as if they were embarassed by the fact.

 

All this makes me wonder if he had a change of heart.

 

[theist]

From what I understand George just wanted to be able to be a regular bhakta around the temples etc. but wasn't allowed to as people kept relating to him as a "Beatle" devotee. Also always trying to get some money from him etc. for their projects.

 

I got the impression that he would have liked to just sit in temple room unnoticed and chant some japa without being looked at and pointed out all the time.

 

It's natural to be attracted to especially talented or rich or intelligent among us. Those are Krsna's attracting attributes and devotees should be reminded of Krsna at those times when we see them minutely displayed in another living entity.

 

We should also control the urge to swoon over them and let them have some space when they visit temples etc.