Is Krishna Consciousness a Hindu religion ???

[Guest guest]

There is a misconception that the Krishna consciousness movement represents the Hindu religion. In fact, however, Krishna consciousness is in no way a faith or religion that seeks to defeat other faiths or religions. Rather, it is an essential cultural movement for the entire human society and does not consider any particular sectarian faith. This cultural movement is especially meant to educate people in how they can love God.

 

Sometimes Indians both inside and outside of India think that we are preaching the Hindu religion, but actually we are not. One will not find the word "Hindu" in the Bhagavad-gita. Indeed, there is no such word as Hindu in the entire Vedic literature. This word has been introduced by the Muslims from provinces next to India, such as Afghanistan, Baluchistan, and Persia. There is a river called Sindhu bordering the north western provinces of India, and since the Muslims there could not pronounce Sindhu properly, they instead called the river Hindu, and the inhabitants of this tract of land they called Hindus. In India, according to the Vedic language, the Europeans are called mlecchas or yavanas. Similarly, Hindu is a name given by the Muslims.

 

India's actual culture is described in the Bhagavad-gita, where it is stated that according to the different qualities or modes of nature there are different types of men, who are generally classified into four social orders and four spiritual orders. This system of social and spiritual division is known as varnasrama-dharma. The four varnas, or social orders, are brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya. and sudra. The four asramas, or spiritual orders, are brahmacarya, grhastha, vanaprastha, and sannyasa. The varnasrama system is described in the Vedic scriptures known as the Puranas. The goal of this institution of Vedic culture is to educate every man for advancement in knowledge of Krishna, or God. That is the entire Vedic program.

 

When Lord Caitanya talked with the great devotee Ramananda Raya, the Lord asked him, "What is the basic principle of human life?" Ramananda Raya answered that human civilization begins when varnasrama-dharma is accepted. Before coming to the standard of varnasrama-dharma there is no question of human civilization. Therefore, the Krishna consciousness movement is trying to establish this right system of human civilization, which is known as Krishna consciousness, or daiva-varnasrama--divine culture.

 

In India, the varnasrama system has now been taken in a perverted way, and thus a man born in the family of a brahmana (the highest social order) claims that he should be accepted as a brahmana. But this claim is not accepted by the sastra (scripture). One's forefather may have been a brahmana according to gotra, or the family hereditary order, but real varnasrama-dharma is based on the factual quality one has attained, regardless of birth or heredity. Therefore, we are not preaching the present-day system of the Hindus, especially those who are under the influence of Sankaracarya, for Sankaracarya taught that the Absolute Truth is impersonal, and thus he indirectly denied the existence of God.

 

Sankaracarya's mission was special; he appeared to reestablish the Vedic influence after the influence of Buddhism. Because Buddhism was patronized by Emperor Asoka, twenty-six hundred years ago the Buddhist religion practically pervaded all of India. According to the Vedic literature, Buddha was an incarnation of Krishna who had a special power and who appeared for a special purpose. His system of thought, or faith, was accepted widely, but Buddha rejected the authority of the Vedas. While Buddhism was spreading, the Vedic culture was stopped both in India and in other places. Therefore, since Sankaracarya's only aim was to drive away Buddha's system of philosophy, he introduced a system called Mayavada.

 

Strictly speaking, Mayavada philosophy is atheism, for it is a process in which one imagines that there is God. This Mayavada system of philosophy has been existing since time immemorial. The present Indian system of religion or culture is based on the Mayavada philosophy of Sankaracarya, which is a compromise with Buddhist philosophy. According to Mayavada philosophy there actually is no God, or if God exists, He is impersonal and all-pervading and can therefore be imagined in any form. This conclusion is not in accord with the Vedic literature. That literature names many demigods, who are worshiped for different purposes, but in every case the Supreme Lord, the Personality of Godhead, Visnu, is accepted as the supreme controller. That is real Vedic culture.

 

The philosophy of Krishna consciousness does not deny the existence of God and the demigods, but Mayavada philosophy denies both; it maintains that neither the demigods nor God exists. For the Mayavadis, ultimately all is zero. They say that one may imagine any authority--whether Visnu, Durga, Lord Siva, or the sun-god--because these are the demigods generally worshiped in society. But the Mayavada philosophy does not in fact accept the existence of any of them. The Mayavadis say that because one cannot concentrate one's mind on the impersonal Brahman, one may imagine any of these forms. This is a new system, called pancopasana. It was introduced by Sankaracarya, but the Bhagavad-gita does not teach any such doctrines, and therefore they are not authoritative.

 

The Bhagavad-gita accepts the existence of the demigods. The demigods are described in the Vedas, and one cannot deny their existence, but they are not to be understood or worshiped according to the way of Sankaracarya. The worship of demigods is rejected in the Bhagavad-gita. The Gita (7.20) clearly states:

 

kamais tais tair hrta jnanah

prapadyante 'nya-devatah

tam tam niyamam asthaya

prakrtya niyatah svaya

 

"Those whose minds are distorted by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures." Furthermore, in the Bhagavad-gita (2.44), Lord Krishna states:

 

bhogaisvarya-prasaktanam

tayapahrta-cetasam

vyavasayatmika buddhih

samadhau na vidhiyate

 

"In the minds of those who are too attached to sense enjoyment and material opulence, and who are bewildered by such things, the resolute determination for devotional service does not take place." Those who are pursuing the various demigods have been described as hrta jnanah, which means "those who have lost their sense." That is also further explained in the Bhagavad-gita (7.23):

 

antavat tu phalam tesam

tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam

devan deva-yajo yanti

mad-bhakta yanti mam api

 

"Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees reach My supreme abode." The rewards given by the demigods are temporary, because any material facility must act in connection with the temporary body. Whatever material facilities one gets, whether by modern scientific methods or by deriving benedictions from the demigods, will be finished with the body. But spiritual advancement will never be finished.

 

People should not think that we are preaching a sectarian religion. No. We are simply preaching how to love God. There are many theories about the existence of God. The atheist, for example, will never believe in God. Atheists like Professor Jacques Monod, who won the Nobel prize, declare that everything is chance (a theory already put forward long ago by atheistic philosophers of India such as Carvaka). Then other philosophies, such as the karma-mimamsa philosophy, accept that if one goes on doing his work nicely and honestly, automatically the result will come, without need for one to refer to God. For evidence, the proponents of such theories cite the argument that if one is diseased with an infection and takes medicine to counteract it, the disease will be neutralized. But our argument in this connection is that even if one gives a man the best medicine, he still may die. The results are not always predictable. Therefore, there is a higher authority, daiva-netrena, a supreme director. Otherwise, how is it that the son of a rich and pious man becomes a hippie in the street or that a man who works very hard and becomes rich is told by his doctor, "Now you may not eat any food, but only barley water"?

 

The karma-mimamsa theory holds that the world is going on without the supreme direction of God. Such philosophies say that everything takes place by lust (kama-haitukam). By lust a man becomes attracted to a woman, and by chance there is sex, and the woman becomes pregnant. There is actually no plan to make the woman pregnant, but by a natural sequence when a man and a woman unite, a result is produced. The atheistic theory, which is described in the Sixteenth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gita as asuric, or demoniac, is that actually everything is going on in this way, because of chance and resulting from natural attraction. This demoniac theory supports the idea that if one wants to avoid children, he may use a contraceptive method.

 

Actually, however, there is a great plan for everything--the Vedic plan. The Vedic literature gives directions regarding how men and women should unite, how they should beget children, and what the purpose of sex life is. Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gita that sex life sanctioned by the Vedic order, or sex life under the direction of the Vedic rules and regulations, is bona fide and is acceptable to Him. But chance sex life is not acceptable. If by chance one is sexually attracted and there are children, they are called varna-sankara, unwanted population. That is the way of the lower animals; it is not acceptable for humans. For humans, there is a plan. We cannot accept the theory that there is no plan for human life or that everything is born of chance and material necessity.

 

Sankaracarya's theory that there is no God and that one can go on with his work and imagine God in any form just to keep peace and tranquillity in society is also more or less based on this idea of chance and necessity. Our way, however, which is completely different, is based on authority. It is this divine varnasrama-dharma that Krishna recommends, not the caste system as it is understood today. This modern caste system is now condemned in India also, and it should be condemned, for the classification of different types of men according to birth is not the Vedic or divine caste system.

 

There are many classes of men in society--some men are engineers, some are medical practitioners, some are chemists, tradesmen, businessmen, and so on. These varieties of classes are not to be determined by birth, however, but by quality. No such thing as the caste-by-birth system is sanctioned by the Vedic literature, nor do we accept it. We have nothing to do with the caste system, which is also at present being rejected by the public in India. Rather, we give everyone the chance to become a brahmana and thus attain the highest status of life.

 

Because at the present moment there is a scarcity of brahmanas, spiritual guides, and ksatriyas, administrative men, and because the entire world is being ruled by sudras, or men of the manual laborer class, there are many discrepancies in society. It is to mitigate all these discrepancies that we have taken to this Krishna consciousness movement. If the brahmana class is actually reestablished, the other orders of social well-being will automatically follow, just as when the brain is perfectly in order, the other parts of the body, such as the arms, the belly, and the legs, all act very nicely.

 

The ultimate goal of this movement is to educate people in how to love God. Caitanya Mahaprabhu approves the conclusion that the highest perfection of human life is to learn how to love God. The Krishna consciousness movement has nothing to do with the Hindu religion or any system of religion. No Christian gentleman will be interested in changing his faith from Christian to Hindu. Similarly, no Hindu gentleman of culture will be ready to change to the Christian faith. Such changing is for men who have no particular social status. But everyone will be interested in understanding the philosophy and science of God and taking it seriously. One should clearly understand that the Krishna consciousness movement is not preaching the so-called Hindu religion. We are giving a spiritual culture that can solve all the problems of life, and therefore it is being accepted all over the world.

 

(His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada from Science of Self Realization.)

 

[Guest guest]

You are not even half baked but quarter baked. Sankaracharya never denied existence of God. You guys dont want to understand him is the fact out of which you guys talk nonsense. In fact, Jagadguru Sankaracharya portrayed the potency of Lord as Lalitha and he worshipped both Lalitha and Narayana. Have yo not read his commentary on Vishnu Sahasranama or Bagawat-gita. Saivites philosophy does say that Supreme Lord is Narayana and His form is Shiva. Hence Both Narayana and Shiva are inseparable and this Hari-Hara betham or the difference is not existing and that is what he said that is true. this is something a highest philosophy and you idiots cannot understand. I use the word idiot, because one who sees Lord as two different form is actually idiot and the fact you dont want to understand sankaracharya confirms that. Anyways, he is stil living, whereas you are nobody.

[MuralidharDas]

Hindu, or not Hindu, that is the question...

 

 

That's me, beneath the banner of the Hindu council of Australia.

 

In Chaitanya Charitamrta, when Srila Krishnadas Kaviraj descibes the sankirtan of Mahaprabhu that he brought to the house of the Kazi, it states that the people in Mahaprabhu's sankirtan were, to use Kaviraj's word, "Hindu".

 

CC Adi, 13

TEXT 93

jaya jaya dhvani haila sakala bhuvana

camatkara haiya loka bhave mane mana

TRANSLATION

All people thus chanted the Hare Krsna maha-mantra during the lunar eclipse, and their minds were struck with wonder.

 

TEXT 94

jagat bhariya loka bale--`hari' `hari'

seiksane gaurakrsna bhume avatari

TRANSLATION

When the whole world was thus chanting the holy name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna in the form of Gaurahari advented Himself on the earth.

 

TEXT 95

prasanna na-ila saba jagatera mona

`hari ` bali' hinduke hasya karaye yavana

TRANSLATION

The whole world was pleased. While the Hindus chanted the holy name of the Lord, the non-Hindus, especially the Mohammedans, jokingly imitated the words.

 

 

and again:

 

TEXT 159

 

prabhu kahe,--vede kahe go-vadha nisedha

ataeva hindu-matra na kare go-vadha

 

TRANSLATION

 

Refuting the Kazi's statement, the Lord immediately replied, "The Vedas clearly enjoin that cows should not be killed. Therefore any Hindu, whoever he may be, does not indulge in cow killing.

 

 

<hr>

Mahaprabhu Himself uses the word Hindu, as a name for the followers of sanatana dharma.

 

 

[Guest guest]

when prabhupada said KC is not hinduism,

he was deplomatic, in my view.

 

below article gives rationale why KC is only a part of hinduism which is just a new name of varnasrama or sanatana dharma.

 

jai sri krishna! -madhav

--------------------------------

Hindus & Hare Krishnas (HK’s) Unity

by “Madhav”

 

Background:

 

Terms Defined:

 

The word Hindu is about 1200 years old. When the Islamists started invading India around 900 AD, they had to cross the river Sindhu at the NW border of Bharat (India).

They would pronounce Sindhu as Hindu. So, the world Hindu to them meant the people who lived on the East and South side of Sindhu. These people were (and most of them still are) the followers of Sanatana Dharma or Varnasrama Dharma that is described in the ancient Vedas and the Vedic literature. Their culture is known as the Vedic culture. People accept the authority of the Vedas and live by it. The culture is such that every one in the society has equal opportunity to progress spiritually towards God. Every act of daily life is geared towards God in mind and for spiritual progress. According to the Vedas, Sanatana Dharma is as old as the creation. So, the word Hindu meant the Vedic person and Vedic way of living (Sanatana Dharma) came to be known as Hinduism. The words Hindu or Hinduism are not mentioned in the Vedic literature because the name change occurred long after the scriptures were put on paper. Originally the literatures were kept in memory of the Brahmana class of the society.

 

Hinduism is a very tolerant Dharma. The Book of Hinduism is Bhagavad Gita that is generally known is Gita. It is a 700-verse summary of 80,000-verse Vedas. While other religions give a set of beliefs for one to accept or reject. Hinduism provides spiritual truths that are as true and universal as the laws of science, like gravity or mathematics. Once can accept these truths and live by it, or choose to not accept and eventually suffer if the laws are violated. Just as the laws of gravity does not change no matter what you believe about it, the spiritual laws and facts about God and soul do not change whether you believe them or not. Hinduism, in principle, provides all possible ways of realizing God. That is why it talks of many names of gods. That is why it is difficult for non-Hindus to understand it. Consequently most non-Hindu cultures have misunderstood it and even condemned it. Every religion has some people who malpractice it. Hinduism is not any exception, but malpractice does not and cannot change what a religion originally is. While Islam and Christianity tells the followers to convert the whole world, Hinduism tells not talk about Hinduism to any one who is not showing friendly interest to know it. Consequently, the Hindus have never invaded another’s country and never have converted any one by force. Hinduism is inherently a secular way of living. Consequently the phrase “Hindu Fundamentalism” or “Hindu Fanatic” is an oxymoron. Unlike Islam and Christianity, Hinduism is not an organized religion.

 

Bharat is described in the Vedic literature as devabhoomi, the land of the gods. It is a holy land of rishis (spiritual scientist), saints, sanyasis (people who give up worldly life for spiritual life), sadhus (godly people), and yogis and mystics. Most Hindus are God conscious.

 

Hinduism says God is one. As creator He is Brahma, as maintainer, He is Vishnu, and as destroyer, He is Shiva. Then there are many demi-gods who serve God, just as there are many Governors and Mayors who serve the President. Consequently a Shiva worshipper Hindu is known a Shivite, and Vishnu worshipper is known is Vaishnava, etc. The philosophy of Vaishnavas is called Vaishnavism. This, Vaishnavism is a major part of Hinduism ever since Hinduism exists.

 

Hinduism is non-sectarian. It addresses or is for all the people of all times and places.

Hinduism has no pagans. Hindus are skin-color-blind. Race is transparent to them.

Bharat is the cradle of the Vedic civilization. So, Bharat is the land of the Hindus, just as Israel is the land of the Jews.

 

Hindu Nationalism is a new phenomenon, although Bharat is a nation of the Hindus since thousands of years. Since 1200 years the Hindus have been kicked and persecuted in their own land by Islamists and for 200 or so years before 1947 ruled over by the British people. Even after so much and so long suffering, the Hindus remained tolerant to the aggressors (Islamists and Christians). Gandhi made it worse for the Hindus by creating Pakistan for the Islamists and still allowing the Muslims to live in Bharat. He did it so because the Muslims threatened a civil war in 1947 and Gandhi did not want a war. What he did in actuality was he made the non-violent Hindus more tolerant of the aggressors, and he failed to make the violent aggressor Islamists non-violent. Now the Hindus do not want to tolerate any more non-sense from the Islamists or any one else. They want to keep Bharat intact, undisturbed, and reserved for the Hindus where they do not want any aggressor religion or ideology that thinks of converting any Hindu. They are working at internal level to stop Hinduism malpractice, and external level to cleanup Bharat of the ideologies that are aggressive to Hinduism and Hindus. Being Hindus, they preferred non-violent ways so far and for long, and none worked. The violent ways are within the scope of Hinduism as described in Gita and they know it. Gandhi’s non-violence message was from Jainism, not Hinduism. So, this sudden change in Hindus’ mood to restore self-respect and get control of their own land and self-rule is seen by the invader outsiders as Hindu fundamentalism, but it is not. Hindus really do not care what other countries do in their own country. They just want to make sure they can practice Hinduism without any hindrance from any one in their own land Bharat.

 

 

The phrase “Hare Krishnas” identifies the Western followers of Bhakti-vedanta Swami Prabhupada who preached Krishna Consciousness (KC). KC is same as Vaishnavism at taught by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu some 500 years ago. His philosophy is slightly different from that taught by three Vaishnava Aacharya (religious authorities) that came before him.

 

The Current Time:

 

This is post 9/11/2001 WTC attack time and early 2003. 9/11 attack on WTC has made the world know the barbaric nature of Islam. The Hindus have many times suffered genocide over 1200 years from Islamists in Bharat. Therefore, the Hindus, being the vitims, know the barbaric nature of Islam since a long time. The current barbaric acts of Islamists towards Hindus are: The destruction of Baminan Buddha statue in Afghanistan, attack on Akshardham and Raghunath temples in Bharat.

 

The jeehaad or Islamists’ holy war against all the non-Muslim people of the world is an asymmetric war of terrorism. (They do jeehaad as described in their Holy Book, Koran and Hadith.) No government alone can fight terrorism and win it. Everyone (or most of the) citizen needs to fight it in whatever small or big way one can fight it, violently or non-violently. For Hindus, violent war is the last choice. When all have to fight, then unity of purpose, organizing, planning, manning, funding, and executing is required. Therefore, the Hindus and HK’s can unite for this purpose. However, the way Sri Prabhupada has presented KC, it makes difficult for HK’s to unite with the Hindus. When many Hindus see that Hk’s do not understand them, then they turn away from HK’s and sometimes become hostile to HK’s. Still many Hindus do support HK’s. This article aims to discuss it with the hope that it will help HK’s unite with Hindus. Once properly understood, it would be seen that unity is already there but not realized.

 

Now the Article:

 

Some points (facts) are described below.

 

a) Sri Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada who came to USA in 1965 and preached KC for 12 years all over the world was a Hindu. He was born and raised in Bharat (although that is not a condition to become a Hindu.) He practiced and preached KC or Vaishnavism or Krishna bhakti or Bhagavat dharma that is a major part or sect of Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma. He preached Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam. Gita is the Book of Hinduism. Krishna is known as God Vishnu among Hindus and in the Vedic literature.

b) Hare Krishnas are Hindus. This is clear when they practice and preach KC. The Hindus clearly see it this way. If some one who follows Jesus is no doubt a Christian, then one who follows and worships Krishna is no doubt a Hindu. If a bird says it is not a bird, that does note make it a non–bird.

c) Prabhupada said to his followers that he is not preaching Hinduism, so HK’s are not Hindus, he said. So the question is why he said so in light of paragraph a) above. Some answers are as follows:

c1: Many Hindus have malpracticed Hinduism, and Hinduism is more than Vaishnavism. The malpractice is going away now, but is still there somewhat. Most non-Hindus incorrectly think that Hinduism is what the most Hindus practice. Rather than telling about the malpractices to the followers who mostly hated Hinduism because they do not know it correctly, he told he is not preaching Hinduism. This was to avoid the discussion about the malpractices and different sects’ principles of Hinduism. This was a lie, but for good reason, just like parents sometimes lie to a child to take a medicine that ultimately will make the child healthy.

c2) The Islamists and the Christians have introduced Hinduism to the world incorrectly and defamed it for selfish reasons. Consequently most non-Hindus do not know what Hinduism really is, and hate it for what they know about it. If Prabhupada had said, ”I am teaching a part of Hinduism,” most would have turned away from him before listening him any more. So, it helped him teach pure Vaishnavism to them by telling it is not Hinduism or a sect of it.

c3) When he said he is not preaching Hinduism, it became attractive to all, even who hated Hinduism. So, he got more followers, as he wanted.

d) When the Hindus hear that Prabhupada said he is not preaching Hinduism when in reality he is, they (especially those who follow Hinduism correctly) feel that Prabhupada stole Hinduism and did not give due credit to the Hindus who kept Hinduism alive despite many Hindu genocides by the Muslims. This is like a mother (even a prostitute) will feel really bad, upset, and hurt when her son says, “I am not your child.” Although Hinduism is for every human being, it is the Hindus who kept it as their treasured heritage. So, when some one takes this heritage and spreads it, they feel good about it. However, when no credit is given to the Hindus for carrying on the culture for future generations, they feel bad about it. Similarly when the Hindus see that yoga and Aayurveda are silently stolen from Hindu heritage and commercialized, and no credit is given to the Hindus, they feel bad about it. The Hindu nationalists want to understand this heritage correctly and practice it well, especially in Bharat.

 

e) Prabhupada preached pure Vaishnavism but packaged it wrongly to make it attractive to his western audience. Removing this false package does not change his preaching subject (Vaishnavism) at all. Vaishnavism still can be preached as Prabhupada taught it, but saying that it is a major sect of Hinduism. No harm can happen to the KC movement if this is done.

 

f) When KC is recognized by HK’s as a part of Hinduism, millions of the Hindus will feel good about it and support the movement. Note that even without this correction, many Hindus do support KC movement. Hindus have no problem with others if others want to worship only one god exclusively. However, HK’s should not look down to the Hindus just because they worship many gods. They do it because there are many gods (devas/ devis). When they understand dharma correctly then they worship only one god.

 

g) Currently HK’s are not supporting Hindu nationalist movement but the Hindus are supporting KC movement. Thus there is no mutual support that is needed when Islamists have declared war on all the kafirs (HK’s included). If the Hindu nationalists do not keep Islam and Christianity out of Bharat, then over some time not far, there will not be any Hindu temples or pilgrimage places like Vrindavan and Jagannath or Dwarika. It all will be just mosques, and burqa for women and cow slaughters every where. Islam is very intolerant, and Koran and Hadith and Saria are the books of religion as well as the government. Sure HK’s do not want this, and therefore they need to support Hindu nationalist movement as the Hindus support KC movement.

 

h) Hinduism (Vaishnavism included) has four divisions of society. Ideally, the Brahmanas are the spiritual guides of the society. Kshatriyas are the protective class, the police and military to keep law and order so that every one can practice their dharma without any problem from any one. Vaishya are farmers and traders and merchants, and shudras are the labor class. Every society has these four classes. Without kshatriyas or the Hindu nationalists, the Hinduism will be run over by the Islamists in Bharat. Hindu-HK unity is desirable to avoid this and keep Hinduism alive and well for future generations on this earth.

 

Bottom line:

 

Vaishnavism the HK’s practice and preach is a major sect of Hinduism. It is a subset of Hinduism. Therefore, HK’s are Hindus and they need to accept this truth just as a Californian will not say he is not an American. The Hindus have no doubt about it. The HK’s should thank Sri Prabhupada for telling them (even incorrectly) he is not preaching Hinduism and thus making them Krishna devotees. Hinduism is just a recent new name for Varnasrama dharma or Sanatana dharma. The word “Hinduism” should not be used to mean all the malpractice the Hindus did in the past. Rather Hinduism needs to be presented to the world as it actually is given by Krishna in Gita. HK’s need to be sympathetic to the Hindu nationalist movement called Hindutva in reciprocation of the fact that Hindus do support KC movement. The current HK preachers need not say any more that they are not preaching Hinduism because now they know KC is not bad as malpracticed Hinduism was. It is very true and correct to say Vaishnavism is a sect of Hinduism and they are preaching that only in its pure form, and practice it correctly. The purpose of the article is to cause unity that is beneficial for HK’s as well as the Hindus.

 

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

 

--END—

======================

[Guest guest]

 

b) Hare Krishnas are Hindus. This is clear when they practice and preach KC. The Hindus clearly see it this way. If some one who follows Jesus is no doubt a Christian, then one who follows and worships Krishna is no doubt a Hindu. If a bird says it is not a bird, that does note make it a non–bird.

 

 

 

This is truly hilarious. It amazes me the lengths some Hindus will go to in order to capitalize on the success of another.

 

Is Jesus a Hindu? You better get your facts straight, Madhav, because apparently Hare Krishnas regard Jesus as a "pure devotee," a "guru," and even a "shaktyavesa avatar" of Krishna! This belief appears to be fairly common to most Hare Krishna people I meet, especially those in the West. Now, I for one don't care about this one way or another. But if you are going to claim that Hare Krishnas are Hindus, then you implicitly accept that their beliefs, including this one about Jesus, are also Hindu. And then that makes the Jesus religion Hindu as well.

 

Are you really prepared to say that?

 

Raghu

[Haridham]

Saying that Hare Krsna devotees or Vaisnavas that follow sanatan dhama are "hindu"s is the most hilarious thing.

 

 

To most cultured indians the word Hindu is a derogotary term.

 

Seriously when someone calls me a hindu I cant stand it.

 

And we are not the Hare Rama Hare Krsna temple either.

 

Hare krsna

[Guest guest]

<< Is Jesus a Hindu?>>

 

did any one see anywhere where i said jesus is hindu?

jesus is not hindu. as a matter of fact jesus followers do not want vaishnavism (hinduism) to exist on this earth.

 

<<.. apparently Hare Krishnas regard Jesus as a "pure devotee," a "guru," and even a "shaktyavesa avatar" of Krishna! >>

 

may be apparant to you only. some authentic quotes from gita or bhagavatam would help in support of this if you could share.

 

if jesus were krishna's avatar, then there was no need for the . hippies to give up . and become Hk's.

jesus said his is the only way, and the hippies gave up that way and accepted the way of chaitanya.

 

jai sri krishna! -madhav

 

 

[Guest guest]

Are you saying that hippies and Jesus followers were similar types of persons because they sentimentally accepted charismatic and religious personalities as gods? This does indeed seem to be the case.

 

 

[Guest guest]

One who follows vaishnavism philosophy in any name is basically following principles of Hinduism or sanathana Dharma only. Whether he likes it or not it is the fact. If you dont like it, then it is like saying that If someone calls me human being I get hillarious becaue I am not a human being but classied as homo sapiens (scietific name for humans)

[Guest guest]

 

did any one see anywhere where i said jesus is hindu?

jesus is not hindu. as a matter of fact jesus followers do not want vaishnavism (hinduism) to exist on this earth.

 

 

 

You seem unusually dense today. Allow me to break this up in shorter, simpler sentences for your benefit.

 

1) Hare Krishnas are Hindu (your opinion)

 

2) Hare Krishnas say Christianity is a genuine religion (read any of their books and you will see this stated)

 

3) Hare Krishnas say Jesus is a shaktyavesa avatar of Krishna (also found in their books)

 

4) Therefore, based on your logic that Hare Krishnas are Hindu, then Christianity and Jesus must also be Hindu

 

If the conclusion (statement #4) is unacceptable, then so too must be the underlying premise (statement #1 - your opinion) upon which it is based.

 

Was that clear enough for you? Or should I now break it up into monosyllabic words?

Raghu

[Guest guest]

<<One who follows vaishnavism philosophy in any name is basically following principles of Hinduism or sanathana Dharma only. Whether he likes it or not it is the fact. If you dont like it, then it is like saying that If someone calls me human being I get hillarious becaue I am not a human being but classied as homo sapiens (scietific name for humans) >>

 

thanks for this, dear guest.

 

jai sri krishna! -madhav

 

[Guest guest]

<< Hare Krishnas say Christianity is a genuine religion (read any of their books and you will see this stated) >>

 

i have not read it in in prabhupada's gita or bhagavatam.

sure . is a religion, but if it were good enough, then there was no reason for prabhupada to come in the west and spread KC, and there was no reason for the xians to give up xianty and accept KC.

 

so, if any HK said . is a good religion,

then he is trying to be diplomatic with the xians around him.

 

now hindus (or HK's) are not out there to wipe out .,

but xians are out there to wipe out hinduism (including vaishnavism). however, prabhupada has said that . will not last long, or will not be a popular religion.

 

sure once he said to a reporter that jesus is our guru.

jesus said thou shall not kill, and therefore we are pure vegetarians. this is his diplomacy to avoid arguments that could aggravate xians.

 

jai sri krishna! -madhav