Why are Indian people loosing their culture

[Haridham]

Now this is not a personal attack on anyone. I am just writing this from seeing and observing what I have noticed about people in "myculture"

 

and yes I know that I will get angry responses from people but hey what can you do.

 

I am writing this because I see more and more indian(young and old) people who go clubbing, drinking, partying and not know anything about their culture.

 

This week I was talking to one of the devotees at the temple and this young Indian fellow came in all cocky and chewing his gum and on his cell phone none the less bumping into my devotee friend and giving him the evil eye to which I replied "interesting way to come into the temple"

 

He just yelled at the top of his lungs "Hey, I am here to see God, Not you"

 

We said yeah "he deserves and needs krsna's mercy"

 

Before he left, my friend and I went outside and when my friend went to the bathroom, the other guy came to me and said "why are you hanging around with these goras(white people) man"

 

I simply said "because these goras are becoming better indians then most indians" Needless to say he wasnt to happy about that. He said "you can be canadian and be in your culture" I said "well be in your culture before you think you are canadian"

 

"your culture describes the difference between the body and soul and how we are not these bodies, casts, color or creeds" I said

 

He told me "yeah, yeah I am hindu I know everything already, I am already self realized"

 

I said "ok, but a self realized person would never say that. Plus a self realized person knows whats the difference between the body and the self is"

 

"The word hindu is never mentioned in the sastras" I said

 

"I got no time for the sastras man, aight. I am to busy with the honeys and partying buddy" He responded.

 

He said he believes in God, Ram, Krsna, Laxman and everyone, he doesnt want anything to do with anything else.

 

he said "he was canadian and proud of it and next week he will come to see the celbration of the god Ram. The festival of lights"

 

At this moment my friend came back and this young fellow was just rude and such. He said "why are you trying to be Indian with the clothing and everything, you cant be a hindu just by wearing hindu clothes"

 

My friend just said "well you are trying to be white so I am trying to be indian, I think its a fair trade dont you think"

 

The young man wasnt to thrilled, he just said "whatever"

 

I wish these young kids would realise how fortunate they are by being born into a wonderful culture. They are missing out on so much. My personal opinion is that if they wanted their culture and practice it they would never come to the west. I mean they come to the west because there is more opportunity to indulge your senses in the west and not much to do with culture.

 

Funny thing is they are truly lost in what their identity is. Nobody has taught them the beautiful aspect of their culture, rather just some ritualistic stuff which I am not surprised they dont understand or cant relate to.

 

I mean for so many years they are forced to follow something without having proper reasons to do such things so its obvious they get repelled.

 

Its to bad that young indian boys and girls are messing up their lives with gangs, murders and drugs but this is what happpens when u loose your culture.

 

I guess if you get tired of acting white(westernized, not the people) for so long you will start acting black....aight.

 

This is just my thought and such, please nobody get angry.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

there are many reasons.

 

- islam did a lot of damage to vedic infrastructure and lives.

 

- then came british and ruled for 200+ years.

 

- then the indians (mostly hindus) foolishely gave away land to muslims and made pakistan - a permanent enemy at the border- and still allowed muslims to live in india.

 

- british fabricated aryan invasion theory and removed actual history of india from education and taught their own fabricated history deglorifying hinduism and the culture.

 

- hindus malpracticed hinduism for long.

 

-etc.

 

despite all that, things are changing and will change.

india will turn back to its own culture.

hany hindus do appreciate Hk's and respect them.

 

jai sri krishna! -madhav

 

[Haridham]

but, i dont get to affected by these. I understand what you are saying though.

 

Prabhupad said that hindus havent lost their culture recently but over many thousands of years.

 

I love the the conversation(dont know where exactly) when prabhupad says Indians are doing everything the westerners do. Thats why I will take my "white elephants" to India and they will follow

 

THis is a major paraphraze ofcourse.

 

ofcourse things will change. Srila Prabhupad and Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement is going to bring a golden age of spiritual life not only in india but all over the world. All over the world people are and will chant the Maha Mantra.

 

Prabhupad and his disciples will change the world

Hare Krsna

[Govindaram]

"This is just my thought and such, please nobody get angry"

 

mmm, nice final thought jerry springer:)

 

I think when ppls start going all blah blah blah, on you give them a copy/link(web)/ask to purchase the Gita,

 

if you came up to me and starting talking to me years ago, i would most probably not listened to you, also why did you preach the way you did??!

 

why did you not cite sastra, don't assume every hindu etc, knows Gita verses, you should have made a nice argument, if you had spoken that way to me, i would maybe (ok just maybe) had the same reaction, anyways for now thats all, maybe more later (watch out lol)

 

hari bol!

[Haridham]

Well I thank you for your comments. Not sure exactly where you were going with that but i take your advice non the less.

 

I dont know scripture off my head like that.

WHen I do say things regarding the scripture people do listen though.

 

Once someone said Krsna is a hindu god.

I said no he is not.

 

He said he is the god for hindus therefore he is a hindu god.

 

Then all I said was nowhere in the gita the word hindu was mentioned, nor in the B.G or any other sastra.

 

And krsna says in the gita Abandon all varieties and Surrender unto me......he never said abandon everything and become a hindu.

 

Hey, suprisingly people listend to that.

 

I hope you would talk to me today.

 

I hope I am not coming off as some arrogant ass or something because I am not. Atleast most of the time

[Gaurasundara]

 

I guess if you get tired of acting white(westernized, not the people) for so long you will start acting black....aight.

 

 

INNIT!

 

Cha' man, try and educate dem enuff so dey can appreciate dey culture, aight? Brown is where it's really at, aight? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Gaurasundara]

Ha ha. Seriously though, I know what you're talking about as I've been there many times. It seems to be hard for young people to interact with their peers when their belief systems are so obviously polarized.

 

Some of the young devotees I know in UK face this same problem. Some of them have got initiated as well, I supose they've made up their mind to follow a devotional life and so they will follow devotional principles. That would necessarily entail giving up asat-sanga, so in effect they shouldn't really be having these probelms. The problem comes when someone tries to preach, I think that's where the difficulty comes in. If two people are so polarized, how can they interact?

 

Times like these, we really need the mercy of Gauranga and Nityananda!

[Govindaram]

And krsna says in the gita Abandon all varieties and Surrender unto me......he never said abandon everything and become a hindu.

 

LOL, thats a good line, i'm sure if not anything else ppls get a good laugh after talking to you..

 

 

I hope I am not coming off as some arrogant ass or something because I am not. Atleast most of the time

 

you must be thinking about another person, when you said this..hari bol!

 

 

[Haridham]

LOL, thats a good line, i'm sure if not anything else ppls get a good laugh after talking to you..

 

Oh I am funny now am I? What? Am I a clown, a clown here to amuse you.

 

hahahah.

 

wow I am surprised nobody has gotten all crazy and hindu on me. lol.

 

Me and some devotees have a saying anytime anyone does something silly.

 

"Geez man, stop being such a hindu"

 

Oh boy, now i have done it. Someone will start something soon, oh well

[Haridham]

Gaurasundara prabhu, when you reply to someone's post how do you get it to say

 

In reply to when you are replying to someone, just curious

[Guest guest]

It's a serious question. After all, we can look outward and criticize, but it takes true humility and introspection to look inward and subject ourselves to the microscope.

 

Every time I go to Sunday feast, in almost every temple I have seen (in the West anyway), there is always this big group of Indian boys who play mridangam for the kirtan. They always wear shorts, are unshaven (have facial hair), and hang out with each other, looking like some big, rough, Indian gang. They never come for class - they only come when it's time to bang on their drums. Nor do they show respect to the Deities, the elder devotees, or anyone else. It's just a big joke for them, playing their kartals and mridangams and top volumes and keeping anyone from actually hearing the chanting.

 

Like that, I have even seen initiated (even twice-initiated) devotees walking into the temple wearing shorts or blue jeans, having darshan of the Lord looking like that. There is even one guru in the society who encourages his disciples to do away with the so-called "Indian" customs (wearing dhoti, tilak, sari, etc) because they aren't "Vedic," only "Indian." This instruction is against the regulations laid down by Nectar of Devotion, but still his disciples do like this.

 

ISKCON communications director Anuttama dasa was quoted in Hinduism Today about 6 years ago as admitting to a 55% divorce rate in ISKCON. THis is comparable to the average in karmi society today.

 

Not only that, but I have personal experience with many of these devotee divorcees, some in their late forties or fifties, coming to the temple "on the prowl" for a new mate. I have even seen older male devotees trying to meet young girls by "preaching" to them. I have seen initiated women maintaining boyfriends.

 

I see many devotees who talk nonchalantly about watching this or that television program or this or that movie. I thought these things were not supposed to be done by initiated devotees, but nowadays it has become accepted. And yet these same devotees will criticize pujaris from other temples for having cell phones or watching TV. Why this double standard?

 

And I have not even gotten into the obvious evils of the iskcon society, like misogyny and gurukuli abuse. Go to California sometime and you can see these former gurukulis - they are all avadhutas now. They don't need to follow any regulative principles. I feel compassion for them on one hand, yet I don't see much evidence that they are trying to better themselves spiritually. Frankly they look like gangsters or rakshasas to me. Some of them have a penchant for cross-dressing.

 

Anyways, if we can look outside and criticize, let's not forget to look inward and see if we are setting the right example for others. Karmis are foolish, no doubt. BUt since devotees are supposed to know better, how can they expect anyone to follow their culture when they themselves have so much trouble with it?

 

Before looking for faults in others, see first if you are above fault. I am not perfect either, and it is not my intention to find faults in anyone. THis is only a response to the tendency I see in some new devotees like Haridham to criticize everyone else outside the society and fail to look closely at iskcon's example.

 

 

[Guest guest]

haridham ji,

 

we are in agreement. jai!

 

<< ofcourse things will change. Srila Prabhupad and Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement is going to bring a golden age of spiritual life not only in india but all over the world. All over the world people are and will chant the Maha Mantra. >>

 

yes, but KC movement is difficult to spread in this times simply becaue a large HK army armed with mridangams and cymbals cannot win against a handful of islamists with ak-47 and bombs. a simple fact is that KC movement has field when there is no terrorism.

 

so, when terrorism is there, then HK's (and all vedic people) with kshatriya spirit are needed. and KC so far has not geared to produce kshatriyas (although swarup-damodar goswami of manipur is capable to train/produce kshatriyas.)

 

one thing HK's need to remenber in this time of terrorism is to never cool down kshatriya spirit of others, and never lie and tell that islam is a good religion. (if islam is good to Hk's then hinduism must be much more more good to them because the roots of KC are in hinduism.)

 

<< Prabhupad and his disciples will change the world

Hare Krsna >>

 

yes, and they can establish well the vedic culture in india easily, but to do that they must not say "we are not hindus" because that is not true. you cannot look down upon your mother and revitalize her. if you do not behave with your mother, she will take a stick and chase you out, and you will not have any chance to bring her back to the vedic glory.

 

also, they are not the only ones who will cause good change in india. vice and virtue is no one's monopoly.

so, the need is to unite with those who have the same interest. enemies work hard to divied the vedic people,

and we must frustrate them badly.

 

for the purpose of saving the fallen hippies

prabhupada diplomatically said tha KC is not hinduism.

(because hinduism has a bad name among enemy noon hindus.)

this attracted the hippies, and they are now first class krishna devotees. and all know that a krishna devotee is a hindu (varnasrami).

 

now if a lie was spoken to save the hippies (and it is not wrong to do so), then what is wrong to tell the truth

that HK's are hindus?

 

note that i am trying to unite HK's and Hindus

against the invader asuric forces in india.

is this not a noble purpose?

 

as long as there are these asuric invader forces causing terror and kliings, it is not a right time

to debate dwaita/advaita, vaishnavism/mayavad, etc.

time is for all the vedic peiple to unite

and clean up india of the invader asuric ideology.

 

would you agree?

 

jai sri krishna! -madhav

 

[Guest guest]

It all comes down to the Muslims with you, doesn't it Madhav? Someone can want to talk about the bad weather, but you will still find some way to relate it to the evils of Islam.

 

I don't care for Islam. But I also don't care for people who have no taste for transcendental topics because they are too busy wasting their time talking about politics.

 

 

[Guest guest]

I also have witnessed it, but was on the other side. I insulted people, thinking myself of a really cool westernized Indian, then it hit me one day as I came across a hare krishna like you.

 

He beat up all that . out of me, even though I was hurt by the way he beat me up (verbally) in a conversation, I sort of got to my senses and said, "Hey this is not me at all" .

 

Actually, what we call Western, we actually not a natural way to be. Westerners who are "Amish" are much more happy than the easterners who focus on how to act like a westerner.

 

The simple life, as said by henry david thurow, is the best life. The spiritual elevation and simplicity is what we label as "Indian" , but it is not "Indian" it is "natural".

 

Just because vedic people found it to be the truth does not give us the right to label it as "Indian". I do not know, but I feel that the words that came out of the guy's mouth were coming from the divine (call me crazy). But its true and after that the books I read (prabhupada's books) make me a better person each day (atleat .0001%).

[Gaurasundara]

Haribol Haridhamji,

 

you have to use the "Quote" tags. For example:

 

(Quote)Gaurasundara prabhu, when you reply to someone's post how do you get it to say

 

In reply to when you are replying to someone, just curious(/quote)

 

If you replace the brackets with the [ and ] signs, you will get this:

 

 

Gaurasundara prabhu, when you reply to someone's post how do you get it to say

 

In reply to when you are replying to someone, just curious

 

 

Remember the slash '/' sign. This closes the tag. Haribol!

[Guest guest]

<< It all comes down to the Muslims with you, doesn't it Madhav? >>

 

not always, dear guest, but when it is true.

 

when so many hindus neglect the message of gita and get deluded under ghandhi, then one way to think is that all their neglected kshatriya spirit is just accumulated and expressed thru me only (a bit of exagaration here.)

 

vaishnavas do not lie,

and apprecaite some one telling the truth.

 

<< I don't care for Islam. But I also don't care for people who have no taste for transcendental topics because they are too busy wasting their time talking about politics. >>

 

you do not have to if you do not care the vedic culture and varnasrama dharma, and the fate of india -devabhoomi.

 

now let me say a bit about politics.

our better word for it is rajkaran.

 

rajkaran cannot be avoided and should not be avoided

because, every person living in a village or city

is under a government. for india that gov. is now a democracy, which is gov. for the people, by the people, of the people. so, if you are one of the people within india, then it should be your concern. if you do not care for it, then the bad guys will get free field to take over the gov. and will rule over you. this actually happened in india for 1000 years. but that does not mean it should continue.

once you and i and others wake up and be active in rajkaran, we can bring a gov. in india that is KC

and free from the asuric ideology.

 

those sanyasis and yogis who are totally detached from the world, so much that they care only for their moksha and not any one else's and live in caves and deep jungles, will not care for rajkaran.

are you one of them?

if not, then why not act like narad.

 

narad is alone, chants, sings, and dances, but travels all over the creation and looks if the people are happy or not.

when he sees people suffering, he takes action.

he does not simpy dance in front of asuras, but motivates suras to take action against asuras, and finally the asuras win.

 

whould you agree that this is right thing to do?

 

jai sri krishna! -madhav

 

[Gaurasundara]

I guess I'm a masochist to hear it again anyway.

 

 

once you and i and others wake up and be active in rajkaran, we can bring a gov. in india that is KC and free from the asuric ideology.

 

 

whould you agree that this is right thing to do?

 

 

That all depends on how far you are prepared to go.

 

Let's just say that what you predict comes true. Vaishnavas start to engage in politics (rajkaran) and ultimately they take control of the government and they end up running the country (India?) in a proper and authorised Krishna Consciousness way. Let's say this all happens.

 

Now what?

 

Many posters have told you that Srila Prabhupada himself disapproved of the label of "Hindu" and went to great lengths to describe Krishna Consciouness as a non-sectarian philosophy, and so on. When your ultimate ambition of a Vedic government is achieved, will you be ready to give up your fancy ideas and accept Srila Prabhupada's words for what they are, instead of assuming he is just a diplomat?

[Guest guest]

I read your posts , I think you are right to some extent, but can I recommend to you one thing.

 

Before trying to do anything, first rely on krishna. Chant 64 rounds of Maha Mantra and just think about how krishna plays with his gopis and gopas. They represent all living beings, which includes cruel animals : lions, tigers, snakes as well as gentle animals and things...

 

So, in your sense the gopis and gopas should include both Hindus and Muslims. So, chant with out distinction and forget the past be in the present(chanting) 16 rounds only thinking of krishna for 10 or 20 days.

 

Then you will see the truth about Muslims and Hindus.

 

I really wish you chant and take my advice. I am only a well wisher.

 

regards,

Wellwisher.

 

[ShegavichaRana]

their culture truly. If they had to lose their culture, they would have lost everything in the last 2000 yrs, but that has not really happened. Lord Krishna, Lord Rama these are the most popular deities of an average Indian. Apart from this, you must also give some concessions for the poor Indians who were under 700 years Mughal rule followed by 300 yrs British rule and still kept their culture intact more or less. The present changes that you are talking about, are nothing but due to the influence of the Western Culture making inroads into Indian culture. Many people easily get carried away by something that is relatively new. But largely Indians are God-oriented. That is why, around the age of 50-60 they turn Godwards. They start attending Kirtans, Pujas, attend religious discourses etc. From the behaviour of few foolish younger boys, you cannot make an opinion.

[Haridham]

Now I know what you are trying to say but again I must tell you I am not trying to fault find or critize any group of people or anything just writing my observations and experiances.

 

 

Now this has nothing to do with not looking inward and such. Wether I am humble or not, these things are the way they are.

 

Now its true and unfortunate that our devotees do this but I have seen many devotees who are far away from this as possible.

 

Male as well as female devotees have been a source of inspiration for me.

Sure some of these boys who play mrdanga are little crazy's but their still transendentle crazy's.

 

Prabhupad once said look at the good things devotee's do like bees attracted to honey not fly's attracted to stool.

 

Now this doesnt mean we should ignore what these devotees do and find excuses for them.

 

You have to realise that although these devotees are practising Santan Dharma, they are brought up in the west and things are a "free for all" out here.

 

Its kali yuga remember.

 

The only reason I say this about indian people is because I think they are fortunate and should know better. Wether they are in iskcon or not.

 

I get sad when I see Indian people who have no clue about things, it doesnt anger me or anything like that but I just have to realise I am although eastindian I happen to be as westernized as the next person.

 

However I am fortunate enough to be brought up in Iskcon(as imperfect as kaliyuga lets it be)

 

Hare Krsna

[Haridham]

Hare Krsna Guest ji.

 

 

I also have witnessed it, but was on the other side. I insulted people, thinking myself of a really cool westernized Indian, then it hit me one day as I came across a hare krishna like you.

 

 

I am glad you wrote what you wrote above as it shows that there are good indian kids out there who are willing to accept constructive critizm from devotees. Now I know overall these Indian kids like you are good but why do they put devotees down, what are they threatend by anyway?

 

Its so hard for me to relate to this kids who are all putting up an act to impress someone anyway.

 

I am glad you got my point and didnt just try to bash me like others would.

 

Usually when I am at the temple, like last night all these indian kids( i think gujus) came to the temple but never even entered inside. When I came out, they all stoped talking and were just looking at me.

 

I personaly dont have much of a problem with indian boys or girls doing whatever although i think they should focus on their culture but if someone is practising why critize or make fun of them?

 

I dont know, sometimes these kids frustrate me.