Meat eating bad, how about milk drinking?

[Guest guest]

Meat eating is bad, ok, I get it. But what about milk drinking? It is taken from a slave cow as well. The cows are ruthlessly murdered by the dairy industry, then why do we buy their milk and fund the killing of calves?

 

[theist]

I see no justifiable reason myself.

[theist]

http://www.milksucks.com/

[Guest guest]

 

http://www.milksucks.com/pus.html

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to comment on this one point from that milksucks.com site

 

 

Dairy products are linked to allergies, constipation, obesity, heart disease, cancer, and other diseases.

 

 

 

This is blatantly false.

 

Allergies - True, cow's milk is frequently implicated in food allergy. But 50% of these children are also allergic to soy milk. Also, peanuts are another commonly implicated food in allergy. These allergies are treated by withdrawal of the offending food. Later on most kids actually outgrow cow's milk allergy. So a little perspective is required here.

 

Constipation - There is no specific association of milk with constipation. Functional constipation is the most common cause of constipation in children, and this is behavioral, not dietary, in origin. Most adults who have problems with constipation usually don't get enough fiber - no surprise given that this is such a meat-oriented culture.

 

Obesity - this is also not true. Obesity is actually linked more to inactivity, "couch potato" television culture, and increased junk food intake. Milk is not specifically implicated in obesity.

 

Heart Disease - This is blatantly false. There is no association of milk with heart disease. The known risk factors include hypertension, diabetes mellitus, cigarette smoking, male gender, age > 50 years, hypercholesterolemia, obesity, and other "coronary artery disease equivalents" (i.e. stroke). There is no association with milk intake and heart disease in any scientific study that I have heard of.

 

Cancer - Also blatantly false. There is an association of high-fat diets with the genesis of colon cancer, but not because of milk intake specifically.

 

 

The late Dr. Benjamin Spock, America's leading authority on child care, spoke out against feeding cow's milk to children, saying it can cause anemia, allergies, and insulin-dependent diabetes and in the long term, will set kids up for obesity and heart disease, America's number one cause of death.

 

 

Insulin-dependent diabetes: This is also blatanly false. There is no association between milk intake and the genesis of IDDM. IDDM is an autoimmune disorder involving destruction of the insulin-producing cells of the pancreas. While there is some positive correlation with certain coxsackie virus infections (controversial), there has not even been so much as a suggestion of a milk-intake related association.

 

Anemia: This is only partially true. Children between the ages of 6 months to toddler years who are on diets consisting mostly or entirely of cow's milk do get iron deficiency anemia. However, this isn't a problem as long as they are eating plenty of other iron-containing foods. The kids who suffer from this problem are usually the ones who drink too much cow's milk relative to the rest of their diet, or who simply do not eat enough of other iron-containing foods. And by the way, contrary to popular belief, you do NOT have to teach your child to eat meat in order to get the necessary iron intake.

 

[Guest guest]

But the issue here is about the morality of drinking milk. If you drink milk , you support the slaughter of cows and calves. How do you justify this ?

 

 

[Guest guest]

The above post was from the starter of this thread.

 

[Guest guest]

Its the killing of animals and birds that counts and not drinking milk.

[Guest guest]

Are the cows killed while milking. I have never heard of it. For calves, they can drink only ann extent. If the calf drinks more, they will get die. So the milk that is taken out is actually the excess milk and not competing with the calves

[Guest guest]

They are not killed while milking but when you buy their milk, you are giving them money to buy more cows and make more slaughter houses and make more money and kill calves and make tons of money over "tender" meat.

 

[theist]

Male calves are sold immediately to veal producers. They are then kept in a crate for 14 to 17 weeks. A crate so small the calve cannot turn around. This excercise deprivation makes the calves meat tender for the demons. Then the male calve is slaughtered.

 

The female calves are slaughtered at birth so the rennet can be taken from their stomachs. Others are allowed to grow until they can take their mothers place as milk slaves.

 

At this point the dairy cow is slaughtered for her meat.

 

This is hardly the vedic conception of cow protection and milk production.

[Guest guest]

Its very sad and horrible tohear the story. I have seen in India they leave the cows and calves for grazing and with that thought I wrote that. But more than drinking milk, its the people who eat meat are the sinners. So whether we pay for milk or not, they pay for meat. So how to stop this. at the most we can buy nondairy milk powders or stop eating yougurt or ghee or buttermilk. But will that stop production of meat. I tried all this and since I am working, and also a vegetarian i started taking milk again. But I dont wear leather belts or leather shoes and my car does not have leather seats although I can afford for it.

this is what I could do as the best. I better go back to India where I can get milk from cows and buffolows which are not tortured like this but freely grazing.

 

[theist]

it is a tale straight from hell for sure. Run a google search on animal rights to find out more.

 

Better than going back to India to get milk you could stay in the West and help devotees who have cow protection projects and help fight this by educating the people on what really goes on.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

What kind of milk do they use in Temples?

 

-starter of this thread

 

[theist]

but the only ones I have seen use regular commercial milk.

 

I think it to be a horrible practice. Srila Prabhupada wanted the temples to eventually receive milk and foodstuffs from self-sufficient devotee farms. That has been of mixed success but is still a viable goal for those so inclined. But it is hard to be simple in this age and culture.

 

Most devotees are unaware of what goes on or I don't think they would offer this to Krsna at this time. Pus infected(see guest's post about pus in milk on this thread above)product of terror torture and violence.

 

That said I don't bring this up around temples as I don't want to be a distraction. And if someone kindly offers me some maha sweet I eagerly accept milk or not. But I do think it is time we confront the issue individualy if not collectively.

[Haridham]

What do i do?

 

I offer milk to KRsna before I drink it.

 

I think I should reduce it I guess or find a cow

[Gaurasundara]

 

What kind of milk do they use in Temples?

 

 

Depends on what type of temple it is. Most ISKCON temples are 'city' temples while a few are country temples. A temple like mine, Bhaktivedanta Manor, has a cow-protetion program going on. They use natural cow-milk to make sweets for the Deities, and they also accept donations of commercial milk. I guess that the commercial milk is used in cooking "ordinary" prasadam while the natural milk is used for the Deities sweets and food.

 

Bhaktivedanta Manor has recently started a fundraising initiative to build a unique centre for cow protection that will be based at the Manor itself. It involves building an entirely new goshalla that will be open for visitors to see how cows are looked after.

 

Have a look: http://www.krishnatemple.com/activities/cowprotection2.shtm

[theist]

Gaurasundhara, that's a nice program. A lot of work to keep going I am sure. A good example.

[ShegavichaRana]

by all saints. I think, God has created cow and similar creatures, in order for the sustenace of infants, old and invalid people and people who cannot digest solid food. If drinking milk were really bad, Lord Krishna would not have stolen butter, a by-product of milk, from the cowheard maidens. Cetainly, in those days, slaughering of cows was unheard.

[theist]

 

Cetainly, in those days, slaughering of cows was unheard.

 

 

Perhaps that was so. But today the milk you drink if you live in the West is certainly a product that is intimately woven with the slaughter industry.

 

Let's be honest. If you buy Western milk you are involved in slaughtering calves and cows. You may consider the milk is so pleasing to the Lord that you must do this. But please see the facts as they are and then make your decision.

 

This weakens our position on preaching cow protection does it not?

 

 

[Sirona]

How many insects, worms, bacteria, viruses etc. are killed while plants are torn out of the soil, cut, crushed, cooked and fried before they finally end up in our mouths? "Western" agricultural production is mostly industrialized agricultural production, so with anything you eat you kill until you don't grow it on your own, and even *then* you do harm to somebody or something.

 

"Every endeavor is covered by some sort of fault, just as fire is covered by smoke." (BG 18.48)

[ShegavichaRana]

Extending the same argument to plants, are we not harming/killing plants to satiate our hunger? In fact, one of my non-veg. addicted friends put this very argument to me, when I tried to speak against non-vegetarianism. I was speechless. To strengthen his argument, he said, vegetarians on the globe were getting plenty of grains as non-vegetarians were consuming meat, else former would have starved.

[theist]

 

Extending the same argument to plants, are we not harming/killing plants to satiate our hunger?

 

 

Yes and we kill bugs with every step. This is the land of death. Unfortunate but unavoidable. Even if we let trees drop their fruit to the ground before we harvest we will still step on insects as we pick up the fruit. So we do the best we can.

 

 

In fact, one of my non-veg. addicted friends put this very argument to me, when I tried to speak against non-vegetarianism. I was speechless. To strengthen his argument, he said, vegetarians on the globe were getting plenty of grains as non-vegetarians were consuming meat, else former would have starved.

 

 

Actually meat eatters also eat more plants than vegetarians. Afterall what do the animals eat? A feed lot cow eats 16 pounds of grain feed to produce 1 pound of flesh. They wastfully cycle the grain through a cow just to taste its flesh and blood.

 

So the arguement actually works in the reverse. If we skipped pumping up cows to slaughter there would be a vast amount of grain freed up to feed the starving and malnourished world wide.

 

Now consider the extra land that would be freed up. And now picture all the water that gets wasted growing the extra grain that gets wasted cycling it through a cow. Then there is the consideration of all the waste that the cows and pigs produce daily that has to be dealt with. Just the cow farts alone are considered a major cause of global warming. I am serious.

 

An ecological disaster to feed six billion humans.

 

But then consider that people in "undeveloped" countries are increasing their meat consumption in imitation of the West. The problem is growing fast.

 

Now factor in human population growth. Its a nightmare. Soon we will need four planet Earths just to feed ten billion humans. That is from a Harvard study.

 

Even if we leave out the compassionate arguments, the enviromental ones alone should be enough to force us all to become vegan.

 

If your friend believes in reincarnation ask him if he likes the prospect of his next so many lives being lived as an animal in a slaughterhouse having his throat cut.

 

Run a google search on factory farming or animal rights. This is a very important issue for devotees. Bhagavatam says an animal killer cannot know God. So this is a fundemnetal aspect of preaching.

 

Hare Krsna