Guest guest Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 Or must they be fully purified in their earthly life before they can enter Goloka? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 yes, meat eaters can be saved by chanting the MAHA MANTRA but ALL fallen living entities must be purified before entering Goloka. Otherwise they would not be able to fit in. Goloka is a very special place. Ordinary salvation has little in common with entering Goloka Vrindavan /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 Where do those who undergo "ordinary salvation" go after death? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 persons obtaining salvation (or liberation) can enter the Brahman effulgence (Brahmajyoti), Vaikuntha planets (where Lord Vishnu resides in His innumerable forms) or Goloka Vrindavan. "ordinary salvation" usually means entering the Brahmajyoti (also known as nirvana) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 If meat eaters cannot reach Vaikuntha how come Garuda eats snakes and fish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 Garuda is not a common living entity like you and me. He is Lord Vishnu's carrier and part of His lila. Since he has an eagle body, eating fruits and veggies is not much of an option. But if you were to eat meat, snakes and fish are a decent choice /images/graemlins/wink.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 Prabhupäda: Pariksit Mahäräja. He said that God consciousness, Krsna consciousness, cannot be understood by the animal killer. Vinä paçughnät [sB 10.1.4]. Nivåtta-tarñair upagéyamänät. You’ll find those who are animal killers, the so-called Christians and Mohammedans, they cannot understand. They (are) simply fanatics. Cannot understand what is soul, what is God. They have got some theories and they are thinking we are religionists. What is sin, what is pious activities, these things are not understood by them because they are animal killers. It is not possible. Therefore Lord Buddha propagated ahimsä. Ahimsä. Because he saw the whole human race is going to hell by this animal killing. “Let me stop them so that they may, in future, they may become sober.” Why is so little information about the Father found in the Koran and the Bible? Because, while being theists they are still addicted to animal slaughter. The maha-mantra will take us to the highest destination of pure love for God. But not as we presently think ourselves to be. There will be many internal realizations and changes along the way. God's names will transform us from our present state to a state presentable to associate with the Lord. A change of mind and heart is necessary. We cannot hang on to a desire to exploit and kill others and expect to be in Krsna's association. Krsna doesn't go to burger joints. If we desire to go we will have to go in forgetfullness of the Lord. What are we thinking? Krsna is going to hang around outside and wait for us before resuming His pastimes? Of course, in one sense He does as Supersoul. He gives us forgetfullness of Him while we attempt to enjoy this hellish fantasy, but this is the conditioned state not the saved state. The conditioned state is the one we need to be saved from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 thank you theist prabhu! /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 Prabhupada has left us with soooo much. He has answered questions long before we knew they should asked. Jai Prabhupada!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haridham Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 if you chant hare krsna sincerly, associate with devotees and read prabhupads books then automaticaly your desire to eat meat will go away. So chanting does help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 What about people who are pure vegetarians, but work in professions like laboratories where bacteria and animals are handled in day today basis. Assume that he or she cannot leave that profession since they dont know any thing else and also for the sake of commitment in their personal life as family. So is there anything said by Prabupada for such kind of people. This can be compared to a slaughterhouse fellow who cuts cows and goats for the sake of his profession, but he personally remain a vegetarian and pray to Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 I wouldn't worry about the bacteria. We kill them with every breath or when we brush our teeth. If it's animal experimentation I would look for another job but I am not sure what Prabhupada said on the subject, if anything. I hope someone has some quote. One thing is every endeavor is covered by some kind of fault. For His devotees Krsna will preserve what they have and carry what they lack. I had a job in the past of managing some apts. Several times I had by law to call an exterminater to kill cockroaches due to some filthy tenants. I still cringe at the possible implications. This material world simply stinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShegavichaRana Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 in labs would not be equivalent to killing something for the pleasure of eating. Working with bacteria is done for the advanceement of science, so that human being would be helped in some way. The person who is doing this work is not going to get any sense gratification by doing so, so he would be saved from bad Karma. If so start thinking in this fashion, we will have to stop taking bath, as that would kill, innumerable biorganisms residing on our skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 What about people working on chick and mouse embryos and also frogs and zebra fish emrbyos. We are testing such in our lab for medical advancement. But bbefore I fix them, I pray to Krishna to give the soul Mokshha when their bodies are getting fixed by me. That is the only thing I could do. I read Gita for this purpose keeping myself pure physically and mentally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 but do you think you have so much influence with Krsna that all you kill will be granted moksa simply on your request? or are you trying to quiet your own conscience? Why do you not feel peace about your work? Is it Supersoul that is causing you to question this practice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 I dont know If I have influence with Krishna or not, I tell Krishna Stuthi before I fix embryos. Also I am a brahmachari, vegetarian, no bad habits of any kind. So I am hoping Krishna considers my prayers and keep those souls atleast in waiting list to grant moksha. So what He still is not obliged and If He does not give, can be a question. So finally after doing all experiment I say Sarvam Shree Krisharpanamasthu and everything goes to you for whatever you want to perform in this world. But I never feel guilty as you have asked if I feel bad in my inner soul. Krishna still keep coming in my dreams quite often. Sometimes with Lakshmi He comes and that makes me feel happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 I hope it is clear that I am speaking for myself and couldn't find any authoratative quotes from Prabhupada on the issue. Maybe someone will help us there. I am a little confused because your mind doesn't seem settled on this issue. When similar apparent conflicts arise in my mind(almost daily /images/graemlins/smile.gif ) it usually involves some inner conflict coming to the surface. It may be different with you. What do you mean by "fixing" the embryos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Fixing embryos refers to arresting their growth abruptly for scientific study and analysis while testing a drug's effect. I wrote about this in the forum to know the opinion of ISKON devotees as I dont belong to that movement but a vaishnava by birth. It is not disturbing the mind in the sense I am doing this, because Krishna was the one who gave me educational sense to come up to this level and when I tried for something else those things did nto work out and this alone worked out. So I took it as His wish in revealing nature's beauty or to protect humans. But I was curious to find what others feel about these kind of things since we all are vegetarians and howmuch ever try to live in Krishna consciousness, we still have to adjust to the materialistic society unlike olden days. So to be absolutely in Krishna consciousness one has to leave material world and lead an isolated saintly life and only then he can be free of any materialistic contamiination. Since this is not possible and the world will be like satya yuga then, and hence I guess God will forgive these things what we do for the benefit of humanity. I want to know your opinion or your guruji's opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 I can't speak for Prabhupada as I am not a strict or even even intiated disciple. If I can't find a specific quote then I can only give my personal opinion. That would be to find a job that is equal to your advanced education doing something other than animal experimentation. Hopefully someone will add some quote from Prabhupada and we can both take instruction from that. May I suggest contacting some of Prabhupada's more scientific disciples for their opinion. Perhaps you good engage your scientific skills in helping them promote Vaisnavaism to the scientific disciplines. Here is a contact for them. http://www.bvinst.org/ If you find some good instruction in this matter please share with us here. Hare Krsna Vaisnava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Thanks for teh link and I wnt through the abstracts. None of them deals with what I amasking for. Its easy for mathematicians or psycologists to talk when they dont work with living cells. But one thing is sure which is my conclusion. How much ever we argue or discuss this matter and even if our argument includes big spiritual scholars and Gurus, the Ultimate decision is by Krishna whose decision none of us know since even the guru's are also humans only. The ones who wnet already to vaikunta are not going to come and tell us what God feels about these scientific medical research. So the existing Gurus words or the past ones are of no use. Let me just continue what He prescribed me to do and keep chanting His namaa. Sarvam Shree KRishnarpanamasthu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 I was hoping that you might make some personal contact. I am also hoping that the more scientific minded devotees would in the future offer some forum where such questions could be answered in a way that us laymen could understand. So many questions are arising these days. From vivesection to cryonics to cloning to genetically modified foods etc. And more will certainly arise in the near future. Talking in scientific terms to other scientists is usefull but so would be the spreading of the Krsna conscious viewpoint down to the layman. How about a Q & A forum BI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Sure that would be interesting. I looked for email contacts and i could not get the articles in full. As I was busy I did not go into detail I too would like to mix with scientists who are also devoted to God since I am very crazyly in love with Krishna. I already have one friend like that who is also a scientist and most of the time we talk about Krishna than science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShegavichaRana Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 is not completed in a single birth for fallen souls like us. What is meat eating? It is a desire and a bad desire at that. Not only the meat eater has to share the Karma of killing the animal, but also increase his/her Tamasi mode further. All this will effectively add to his/her Karma and there are definite rebirths to pay for the same. Yes, the holy name or mahamantra can surely purify the mind, provided the chanting is done with faith, concentration and devotion. Since, our soul is so much conditioned over hundreds of such births, that, the purification process is not completed in one single birth. But once taken to chanting, it continues in his/her next birth and so on. Here the steadfastness and desire to get liberated would count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.