What do gaudya VaiSnavas know about PuruSa and PrakRti

[anadi]

To try to understand the relation between PuruSa (the Supreme Enjoyer) and PrakRti (the enjoyed) which is on the level of rasa tattva, first we have to try to understand the relation between Saktiman (the possessor of the energy) and Sakti (the energy) on the level of jnana sambhanda tattva.

 

First you should understand the meaning of pramANa.

That subject which is established by pramANa (evidence or proof) is known as prameya (that which is proved);

and that by which prameya is proved is known as pramANa.

 

SvayaM BhagavAn Sri GaurANgadeva (the very prana of the gaudya vaiSnavas has instructed ten distinct tattvas (fundamental truths) to the faithful jIvas.

 

sUtra Sloka of DaSa-mUla

where the ten ontological truths are set out in a condensed form.

 

AmnAyaH prAha tattvaM harim iha paramaH sarva-SaktiM rasAbdhiM

tad-bhinnAMSAS ca jIvAn prakRti-kavalitAn tad-vimuktAMS ca bhAvAd

bhedAbheda-prakASaM sakalam api hareH sAdhanaM Suddha-bhaktiM

sadhyam tat-pritim evety upadiSati janAn gauracandraH svayaM saH

 

SvayaM BhagavAn Sri GaurSNgadeva has herein instructed ten

distinct tattvas (fundamental truths) to the faithful jIvas.

 

1. PramANa: The teachings of the Vedas received through

guru-paramparA (disciplic succession) are known as AmnAya.

The infallible evidence of the Vedas, of the smrti-SAstras headed by the Srimad-BhAgavatam,

as well as evidence such as direct sense perception (pratyakSa), that concur with the guidance of the

Vedas, are all accepted as pramANa (evidence). This pramANa establishes the following prameyas (fundamental truths):

2. Parama-tattva: Sri Hari alone is the Supreme Absolute Truth.

3. Sarva-SaktimAn: Sri KRSNa is the possessor of all potency.

4. Akhila-rasAmRta-sindhu: He is the ocean of nectarean mellows.

5. VibhinnAMSa-tattva: Both the mukta (liberated) and baddha (conditioned) jIvas are His eternally separated parts and parcels.

6. Baddha-jIvas: Conditioned souls are subject to the control and covering of mAyA.

7. Mukta-jivas: Liberated souls are free from mAyA.

8. Acintya-bhedAbheda-tattva: The entire universe, consisting of the conscious (cit) and unconscious (acit), is Sri Hari’s acintya-bhedAbheda-prakASa, that is to say, it is His manifestation which is inconceivably both different and non-different from Him.

9. Suddha-bhakti: Pure devotional service is the only practice (sAdhana) to attain perfection.

10. KRSNa-priti: Transcendental love and affection for KRSNa is the one and only final object of attainment (sAdhya-vastu).

 

Source Jaiva Dharma, Chapter PramAna and the commencement of prameya

[Guest guest]

Where is stuff on Purusha (man) and Prakriti(matter)?

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

Here Purusha means Lord and not man.

[anadi]

<pre><font class="small">code:</font><hr> Where is stuff on Purusha (man) and Prakriti(matter)? </pre><hr>

 

PuruSa means the enjoyer.

There is one enjoyer only, The All Attractive One, in His different expansions in the category Saktiman .

The enjoyer is the real masculine person, and this is only the attribute of The All Attractive One.

All others, who are His Saktis are the enjoyed, and from this point of view they are considered feminine.

PrakRti, which is the external Sakti of The All Attractive One, cannot touch Him, because He is always transcendental to Her (far beyond Her range of activity)

If the spiritual souls wouldn’t be in the material world, prakRti would have no meaning for the The All Attractive One Sri Krishna, in His different manifestations.

Because of ahankara (the false ego) the jivas (the spiritual souls) identify themselves with the external Sakti <font color="blue"> (the gross and fine material body and their by produckts) and try </font color> to enjoy it, and the real connection with The All Attractive One remain buried .

This real connection is prema (divine love), which can be kindled through the process of bhakti (pure love expressed as pure devotional service).

Really prakRti (that what is to be enjoyed)is not the external energy (maha-maya Sakti).

Only one who is in illusion thinks like that.

The spiritual souls, which are made of love, they are the ones to be enjoyed. The true Object of their love is The All Attractive One, who is the Enjoyer

 

The pramANa for these statements are next to come.

 

 

"Now listen attentively.

 

svataH-siddho vedo hari-dayita-vedhaH-prabhRtitaH

pramANaM sat-prAptaM pramiti-viSayAn tAn nava-vidhAn

tathA pratyakSAdi-pramiti-sahitaM sAdhayati naH

na yuktis tarkAhyA praviSati tathA Sakti-rahitA

DaSa-mUla (1)

The self-evident Vedas, which have been received in the <font color="blue"> sampradAya (disciplic school) </font color>

through the guru-paramparA (disciplic succession of the realized saintly persons)

by recipients of Sri Hari’s mercy such as BrahmAji and others, are known as AmnAya-vAkya.

 

The nine prameya-tattvas are established by these amnaya-vakyas with the help of other prameyas that

follow the guidance of these Sastras (scriptures), such as evidence obtained by direct sense perception (pratyakSa). Reasoning that is only based on logic is always lame in the matter of evaluating inconceivable subject matters, since logic and argument have no access in the realm of the inconceivable.

 

In the MuNDaka UpaniSad (1.1.1) it is stated:

brahmA devAnAM prathamaU sambabhUva

viSvasya karttA bhuvanasya goptA

sa brahma-vidyAM sarva-vidyA-pratiSThAm

atharvAya jyeSTha-putrAya prAha

 

BrahmAji, who is the creator of the entire universe, and the protector of the worlds, was the first deva (demigod) to appear. He gave complete instructions on brahma-vidyA, (knowledge of brahman)the basis of all

knowledge, to his eldest son, Atharva.

 

It is also stated further on in MuNDaka UpaniSad (1.2.13),

 

yenAkSaraM <font color="blue"> puruSaM </font color> veda satyaM

provAca tAM tattvato brahma-vidyAm

 

Brahma-vidyA is knowledge that reveals the true svarUpa of para-brahma, the indestructible Puruñottama (The Supreme Enjoyer)."

Source Jaiva Dharma, Chapter PramAna and the commencement of prameya

 

[Guest guest]

here you quote

 

There is one enjoyer only, The All Attractive One, in His different expansions in the category Saktiman . The enjoyer is the real masculine person, and this is only the attribute of The All Attractive One. All others, who are His Saktis are the enjoyed, and from this point of view they are considered feminine

 

 

 

this can be easily misunderstood by those not qualified

by cultivation of knowledge and experience(wisdom),

here Bhaktivinode is describing the essential relationship between the energy and the energetic,

the energetic and energy are both one substance,

but the controlling aspect is the energetic,therefore,

As he states "and from this point of view

they are considered feminine".

 

Why does he make this caveat ?

 

Because naturally the controller of a substance when described in terms of gender will be called masculine,

or possessing strength,and the controlled substance will be described using the feminine or submissive or weaker

designation.

 

This doesn't mean that the energetic,or controller,

or enjoyer is male in rasa,he gives the caveat that the gender terms used to describe the basic rasa between

controller and controlled can be such using terms

denoting gender, but the reason he does this is so that

you will not mistake that rasa to be the same as the rasa

the controller takes on when assuming a feminine form for pastimes, at that stage the percieved controlled

or female is in fact the controller at the same time,

the illusion or Yoga Maya hides this most

essential fact.

[Guest guest]

So, Purusha as controller is God, Prakriti as controlled is everything else, then can we say : Our lives however, horrible or beautiful they may be is controlled by Purusha himself?

 

[anadi]

"Our lives however, horrible or beautiful they may be is controlled by Purusha himself?"

 

Yes! Always! although we have the independence potency.

We have a very big defect: we are tiny-small.

 

But we also can control Him! By the power of our love.

The higher the love the more powerful is the control.

But love is not in this world.

 

The way of bhakti is the way of love.

And you get in that other world by the association of love,

in a body made out of love.

 

And from the commentary of Srila Jiva Gosvami to Vers 1 from Brahma Samhita:

 

It is also stated in the GopAla-tApani UpaniSad (21):

“eko vaSi sarvagaH kRSNa iDyaH –

Sri KRSNa is one. He controls everyone, knows everything and is worshipable by all.”

Such an ISvara can be referred to as parama. Para means “the most excellent” and

mA means “LakSzmi, the sum total of all potencies.” Therefore, one who is eternally accompanied by the most excellent LakSzmi, namely Sri RAdhA, is called paramesvara Sri KRSNa. For example, it is stated in Srimad-BhAgavatam:

“reme ramAbhir nija-kAma-samplutaH

– BhagavAn Sri KRSNa enjoyed His pastimes with Srimati RAdhikA and the other gopis.” Also:

“nAyaM Sriyo ’nga unitAnta-rateH prasAdaM –

the great fortune attained by the gopis in the pastime of the rAsa dance with Sri KRSNa was not available for the queens of DvArakA headed by RukmiNi and SatyabhAmA, nor for the Lakshmis of VaikuNTha or Devaloka, not to mention the demigoddesses of heaven.”

 

[anadi]

VrajanAtha: Do you have any evidence that the RSis who compiled the smRti-SAstras have given the correct explanation of the Vedas in them?

BAbAji: Evidence for this is given in Srimad-BhAgavatam (11.14.3-4), the crest jewel of all SAstras.

kAlena naSTA pralaye vANIyaM veda-saMjnitA

mayAdau brahmaNe proktA dharmo yasyAM mad-AtmakaH

tena proktA sva-putrAya manave pUrva-jAya sA

tato bhRgv-Adayo ’gRhNan sapta brahma-maharSayaH

Sri BhagavAn said, “By the influence of time, the Vedas containing My instructions on bhAgavata-dharma were lost when the cosmic devastation occured. At the beginning of the next brAhma-kalpa at the time of creation, I again in-structed BrahmA (the first living being) in that same Veda. BrahmäA instructed his son Manu in the Vedic knowledge, and Manu in turn in-structed the same science to the seven BrahmaRSis, headed by BhRgu.”

 

VrajanAtha: What is the necessity for a sampradäya?

BAbAji: Most people in this world accept the shelter of MayAvAda philosophy, and follow that inauspicious path which is devoid of bhakti. Consequently, if there were no separate sampradAya for those who practice Suddha (PURE)-bhakti that is untainted by the faults of MayAvAda, it would be very difficult to attain genuine sat-saNga (association with pure devotees of the Lord).

Therefore, it is stated in the Padma PurANa,

 

sampradAya-vihinA ye mantrAs te viphalA matAH

Sri-brahma-rudra-sanakA vaiSNavAH kSiti-pAvanAH

VaiSNava AcAryas in the four sampradAyas—namely RAmAnujAcArya in the Sri-sampradAya, MadhvAcArya in the Brahma-sampradAya, ViSNusvAmé in the Rudra-sampradAya,

and NimbAditya in the CatuHsana-sampradAya—purify the whole universe. Diksha mantras not received from the AcAryas in one of these four sampradAyas will be fruitless.

Source Jaiva Dharma, Chapter PramAna and the commencement of prameya

 

[anadi]

First you should understand the meaning of pramANa.

 

Source of pramANa

 

"Of these four, the Brahma-sampradAya is the most ancient and has continued through the disciplic succession until the present day. These sampradAyas adhere to the system of guru-paramparA and

they have brought the VedAnta and other supremely auspicious literatures unchanged from the most ancient times, and by the potency of the system of paramparA, there is not the slightest chance

that they have made any change or eliminated any portion. There is, therefore, no reason to doubt the literature that the sampradaya has authorized. SampradAya is an effective and indispensible arrangement, and for this reason, the sat-sampradAya system is continuing amongst saints and sAdhus from the most ancient times.

VrajanAtha: Are the names of all the AcAryas in the sampradaya available in order of succession?

BAbAji: Only the names of the most prominent äcäryas who have

appeared from time to time are mentioned.

VrajanAtha: I would like to hear the guru-paramparä of the Brahma-sampradäya.

BAbAji: Listen.

para-vyomeSvarasyAsic Shizyo brahmA jagat-patiH

tasya Sizyo nArado ‘bhUd vyAsas tasyApa SiZyatAm

 

BrahmA, the master of the universe, is the disciple of ParameSvara Sri NArAyaNa, and NAradaji became the disciple of BrahmA. VyAsadeva became the disciple of NAradaji.

 

Suko vyAsasya Sisyatva prApto jnAnAvarodhanAt

vyAsAl labdho kRSNa-dIkSzo madhvAcAryo mahAyaSaH

 

Sri Sukadevaji became the disciple of Sri VyAsadeva in order to check the spread of impersonal jnana. The celebrated MadhvAcArya also received kRSNa-dikSza from Sri VyAsadeva, Narahari became the twice-born SiZya of MadhvAcArya."

 

Source Jaiva Dharma, Chapter PramAna and the commencement of prameya

 

[anadi]

The evidence (pramANa) is accepted throungh the line of disciplic succession of the pure devotees (bhagavat bhaktas)

up to the present days.

 

tasya SiSzyo naraharis tac-chisyo madhavo dvijah

aksobhyas tasya AiAzyo ‘bhüt tac-chiSyo jayaiérthakaH

MAdhva-dvija became the disciple of Narahari. Akñobhya was MAdhva-dvija’s disciple and accepted Jayatirtha as his disciple.

tasya SiSzyo jnanasindhus tasya SiSzyo mahAnidhiH

vidyanidhis tasya SiSzyo räjendras tasya sevakaH

Jnanasindhu became the disciple of Jayatértha, MahAnidhi became Jnanasindhu’s disciple and accepted VidyAnidhi as his disciple, and Rajendra became the disciple of Vidyänidhi.

jayadharmo munis tasya SiSzyo yad-gaNa-madhyataH

Srimad-viSNupuré yas tu bhakti-ratnAvalI kRtiH

Jayadharma Muni became the disciple of Rajendra, and oneof his followers named Sré Viñëu Puré, who composed

Bhakti-ratnAvalé, was a prominent AcArya.

jayadharmasya SiSzyo ‘bhud brahmanyaH puruSottamaH

vyAsa-tIrthas tasya SiSzyo yaS cakre viSNu-saMhitAm

Jayadharma’s disciple was Brahmaëya Puruñottama, who in turn accepted VyAsa-tIrtha, the author of ViSNu-saMhitA, as his disciple.

Srimal-lakSmipatis tasya SiSzyo bhakti-rasasrayah

tasya SiSzyo mAdhavendro yad-dharmo ‘yam pravartitaH

Sri LakSmépati became the disciple of Vyäsa-tértha, and MAdhavendra Puré, who was the epitome of bhakti-rasa, andwho propagated bhakti-dharma, was the disciple of LakSmépati.

 

Source Jaiva Dharma, Chapter PramAna and the commencement of prameya

 

 

mAdhavendra puri bara SiSzya bara Sri Isvara

nityAnanda Sri advaita vibhu

Isvara purike dhanya krilen Sri caitanya

jagad guru gaura mahAprabhu

 

mahApravhu Sri caitanya rAdhA kRSNa nahe anya

rUpAnuga janera jivana

viSvambara priyaNkaraa Sri svarUpa dAmodara

Sri gosvAmi rUpa sanAtana

 

rUpa priya mahAjana jiva raghunAtha hana

tAra prya kavi kRSNadAsa

kRSNadAsa pria bara narottama sevA para

jAra . viSvanAtha Asa

 

viSvanAtha bhakta sAtha bladeva jagannAtha

tAra priya Sri bhaktivinoda

mahA bhAgavata bara Sri gaurakiSora bara

hari bhajaneta jA’ra moda

 

 

prabhupAda antaraNga Sri svarupa rUpAnuga

Sri keSava bhakati prajnana

 

An internal and intimate disciple of Prabhupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati was Sri bhakati prajnana keSava Gosvami.

 

tAra pradhAn pracArako Sir bhakivedAnta nAmo

patita janete doyAdhAma

 

The foremost disciple preacher of Prabhupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati was Srila Bhakitvedanta Svami Prabhupada, who had spread the message of Sri Caitanya MahAprabhu throughout the world and is thus a reservoir of mercy and compassion for all fallen sould.

 

tAra SiSzya aganana tAra madhye anyatama

Sri bhaktivedanta nArAyaNa

 

Out of the countless disciples of Sri Bhakti Prajnana KeSva Gosvami one of the most prominent is Sri Bhaktivedanta NarAyaNa Maharaja.

 

ei saba harijana gaurANgera nija janma

tAdera ucchiSTe mora kAma

 

It is my desire to honour their remnants (mahAprasAda and instructions) from the lotrus mouths of all these personal associates of Sri Krishna and Sri Caitanya.

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your wonderful posts. I had much fun reading them.

[anadi]

VrajanAtha: In the first Sloka of DaSa-mUla, the Vedas are accepted

as the sole evidence (pramANa); whereas the other pramANas, such

as pratyakSa (direct perception), are accepted as evidence only

when they follow the Vedas. However, philosophies such as nyAya

and sANkhya have accepted further types of evidence. Well-versed

readers of the PurANas have accepted eight types of pramANa:

pratyakSa (direct perception),

anumAna (inference based on generalized experience),

upamAna (analogy),

Sabda (revealed knowledge),

aitihya (traditional instruction),

arthApatti (inference from circumstances),

sambhava (speculation), and

anupalabdhi (understanding

something by its non-perception). Why are there so many opinions

regarding pramANa? And if direct perception and inference

based on experience are not counted among the perfect pramANas,

how is it possible to get real understanding? Kindly enlighten me.

 

BAbAjI: PratyakSa and other types of evidence depend on the senses,

but since the senses of the conditioned jIva are always subject to

bhrama (illusion), pramAda (error), vipralipsA (cheating), and

karaANpATava (imperfection of the senses), how can the knowledge

acquired through the senses be factual and faultless? The fully independent possessor of all potencies, Sri Bhagavän Himself, personally manifested as perfect Vedic knowledge within the pure

hearts of great mahaRSis and saintly AcAryas who were situated in

full samAdhi.

 

Therefore, the Vedas, which are the embodiment of svataH-siddha-jnana (self-manifest, pure knowledge) are always faultless and fully dependable as evidence.

 

Source Jaiva Dharma, Chapter PramAna and the commencement of prameya

 

[anadi]

BAbAji: Bhrama (illusion) is the baddha-jiva’s false impression of

reality resulting from faulty knowledge gathered through imperfect

senses. For example, in the desert, the rays of the sun sometimes

produce a mirage, which creates the impression of water.

This fault of making errors and mistakes is called pramAda. Since

the material intelligence of the baddha jiva is by nature limited,

mistakes are inevitably present in whatever siddhAnta his limited

intelligence discerns in relation to the unlimited para-tattva.

VipralipsA is the cheating propensity. This is manifest when one,

whose intelligence is limited by time and space, is suspicious and

reluctant to believe in the activities and authority of ISvara, who

is far beyond time and space.

Our senses are imperfect and ineffective, and this is known as

karaNApATava. Because of this, we cannot avoid making mistakes in

everyday circumstances. For example, when we see an object sUddenly,

we may mistake it for something else and draw faulty conclusions.

 

VrajanAtha: Do pratyakSa and other pramANas have no value at all

as evidence?

 

BAbAji: What means do we have to gain knowledge of this material

sphere, except through direct perception and other pramanas?

Nonetheless, they can never give knowledge about the spiritual

world (cit-jagat), for they cannot enter into it. That is why the

Vedas are certainly the one and only pramana for gaining knowledge

about the cit-jagat. The evidence gained from pratyakSa and

other pramANas is only worth considering when it follows the

guidelines of the self-evident Vedic knowledge; otherwise its evidence

can be discarded. That is why the self-evident Vedas are the

only evidence. PratyakSa and other pramANas can also be accepted

as evidence, but only if they are in pursuance of the Vedas.

 

<font color="blue"> Source Jaiva Dharma, Chapter PramAna and the commencement of prameya</font color>

 

[anadi]

VrajanAtha: Are literatures such as the Bhagavad Gita and the Srimad Bhagavatam

not counted as pramANa?

BäbAjI: The Bhagavad Gita is called an UpaniSad (GItA UpaniSad),

because it is the vANI (instructions) of BhagavAn; hence, the GItA

is Veda. Similarly, DaSa-mUla-tattva is also bhagavat-vANI because it

is Sri Caitanya Mahäprabhu’s instructions, so it is also Veda.

Srimad-Bhägavatam is the crest-jewel of all the pramANas because

it is the compilation of the essence of the meaning of the Vedas.

The instructions of different SAstras are authoritative evidence

only as long as they follow the Vedic knowledge. There are three

types of tantra-SAstras: sAttvika, rAjasika and tAmasika. Of these, the

PaNcarAtra and so on are in the sAttvika group, and they are accepted

as evidence because they expand the confidential meaning of the

Veda.

 

Source Jaiva Dharma, Chapter PramAna and the commencement of prameya

 

 

[bhakti_lata]

Prabhu, am i correct in thinking that your ID name is anAdi as in "anAdir-aadir govinda sarva kAraNa kAraNa ". Anaadi meaning One who is unborn has no beginning ie "The Supreme Lord". The reason I am clarifying this is that someone in reply to one of your posts, i think, thought your id name was 'anadi' a word in hindi which means 'inexperienced'.

 

GovindA!

bhakti~lata

[anadi]

Dear didi,

I bow my head to your proficiency,

and your strong upadis

I am honoured by you anddressing me

a wretch who's called anadi

 

anAdi

kRSNa

dasa

[bhakti_lata]

i bow my head

to the head

that bows

owing to the

the sheer weight

of the fruits it

bears.

i realize that

it was an irrelevant,

if not irreverant,

poser about

what your id poses

to be.

irrelevant because

for a krsna dAs

does it matter if

he is an anAdi das

or an anADii das

as long as he remains

a dAs of the anAdi krsna.

 

thank you for reminding me our true constitutional position...

 

Hari bol! GovindA!!!

 

bhakti~lata

 

 

[anadi]

I’m sure you are the way you speak

Oh, gentle, tender flower

I wish I’ll be the das I want

than guru’s blessings shower

 

and still I’m not.

 

anAdi

kRSNA

dasa

[bhakti_lata]

wrapped within

my clumsy words

my tender devotion

you could see!

and yet maintain

that you still are

not dAs of anAdi

you revealed yourself

through your humility!

 

:-)

bhakti~lata

[anadi]

Humility would set me free

To reach I would desire

You mock of me, and you are right,

Who has that love to make him humble?

Who get it as attire?

 

[Guest guest]

I feel so much love and respect here, now I feel like I want to cry. You devotees know the meaning of life, may krishna be with you forever.

 

[Guest guest]

BäbAji: In the course of time, unscrupulous and untruthful personalities

have interpolated many chapters, maNDalas (sections and

divisions) and mantras into the Vedas, in order to fulfill various

self-interests. Those parts that were added at a later time are called

prakSipta (interpolated) parts. It is not that we should accept any

and every Vedic text as reliable evidence. Those Vedic granthas

(sacred books) that the AcAryas in the sat-sampradAyas have accepted

as evidence are definitely Veda and are authoritative evidence, but

we should reject literature or parts of literature that they have not

recognized.

 

Source Jaiva Dharma, Chapter PramAna and the commencement of prameya

 

[bhakti_lata]

from discussing

pururSA prakRuti

to desiring

love and humility

these are the signs

of anAdi krsna's devotee

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

lest u think

this smile is in mock

u got to know that

i display it

in times of joy

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

bhakti~lata

[anadi]

your joy is ours

make our hearts rejoyce

oh noble one

sprinkle your mercy

on the poor

[anadi]

VrajanAtha:

Which Vedic granthas have the AcAryas of the satsampradAyas

accepted?

BAbAji:

ISa,

Kena,

KaTha,

PraSna,

MuNDaka,

MANDUkya,

Taittiriya,

Aitareya,

ChAndogya,

BRhaD-AraNyaka and

SvetASvatara—these

eleven sAttvika UpaniSads are accepted, and so are

GopAla UpaniSad,

NRsiNha-tApani and

some other tApanis that are helpful in worship.

The AcAryas have also accepted brAhmaNas and maANalas as Vedic

literature, as long as they expand the Vedas, following the guidance

of Rg, SAma, YajuH and Atharva. We receive all the Vedic literatures

from the AcAryas in the sat-sampradAyas, so we can accept

them as evidence from a bona fide source.

 

Source Jaiva Dharma, Chapter PramAna and the commencement of prameya