What is omniscience?

[theist]

God is omniscient. All agree. But what is meant by omniscience?

 

Krsna has unlimited universes,both material and spititual. He knows all that is transpiring in every tiny quarter of His realm which is unlimited so we say He has unlimited knowledge, He knows everything. And this through the three phases of time, past, present and future.

 

That would mean that He has knowledge of every atom and its movements. It is astounding and unfathomable for us to conceive of such a person but nevertheless He exists.

 

He knows everything as He is everything.

 

So when a jiva soul becomes Krsna conscious he can be said to know everything because he only knows He who is everything. Not that he has all knowledge of every atomic movement past, present and future.

 

This is in general how I understand it. Am I correct or at least headed in the right direction or am I on the wrong track here?

 

You help would be appreciated.

 

Hare Krsna

[Govindaram]

forgive me for giving my views..

 

 

i'm sure Yoga-maya..krishna's spiritual energy,

has something to do with this..

 

lets see what stonehearted/ghari/pritta/haridham/anybody

says..wheres LE & I_L_K..anyways..Hare Krishna & Happy Diwali!

 

[theist]

Govindaram,

 

Yes more input will be welcome. Factions form over the meanings of such words and I am not yet convinced either side is understanding what the other may be meaning when they say omniscient. I am not convinced they even know what they mean. I am convinced I don't. lol

 

On Diwali, I hope some nice Indians will start a thread on this celebration and the different activities going on in India surrounding it.

[Guest guest]

Theist,

 

I'm not sure if I understand the concept of omniscience myself, and perhaps I won't fully understand until I study it further, and/or become a "perfected jiva" myself. However, for the most part, based upon what I've read, I can accept the premise. Krsna is generally understood to be omniscient, yet it is described in places that in his pastimes in Vraja, even He becomes covered by Yogamaya and loses his "aisvarya" feature so that he can enjoy lila.

 

Mother Yasoda once looked within Krsna's lotus mouth and saw everything, all the universes, planets, demigods, beings, the elements...everything. It was rather astonishing to see, and I think she preferred to see Krsna as her beloved baby boy, hence Krsna withdrew that brief glimpse of His aisvarya feature.

 

Narada Muni one time became omniprescent and visited Krsna in each of His palaces in Dwaraka, to witness the various pastimes Krsna was engaging in, with each of His thousands of wives, as described in the Krsna Book.

 

I think there is a verse somewhere, (sorry, forgot where), that Krsna is He who becoming known, everything else becomes known. (paraphrasing here.) This is the month of Karttika, and in the Damodarastikam prayers, Lord Krsna's belly is worshipped as being the abode of all the Universes. So, if Krsna is known, what else is there to know?

 

I seem to recall that Srila Prabhupada was asked this question in a letter, and he replied that Krsna tells him what he wants to know, or needs to know. In other words, a pure devotee of the caliber of Srila Prabhupada or Narada Muni or Mother Yasoda could indeed see everything if and when they wish to, however, being that they are devotees of Krsna, they wish to only see Krsna. Still, for the sake of preaching, pure devotees may display omniscient features in order to accept prayers and prasad from their disciples. Yet, for the most part, engaging in nara-lila, (human-like pastimes), they present themselves as madhyama adhikaris, not as supernatural beings endowed with all the mystical perfections.

 

Apparently there is a verse where the pure devotee is described as being the sum total of all the demigods, which I guess would include Lord Brahma, who is fully aware of everything within his particular Universe.

 

Anyway, it's an interesting concept. As I said, I don't understand it very well myself. But, I can accept the premise, based upon pastimes and verses which I've read.

 

 

Hari bol,

 

Bhakta Dan

[Guest guest]

I think you are right, because if the individual Jiva knew everything like krishna then that would mean that it is not Jiva, but it is krishna itself, which is clearly not the truth in reality.

 

We see perfected beings who support the brahman theory like vivekananda, but they don't know everything, they know that they think that they are everything but don't know everything. So, the jiva is said to be 'jiva' because it is limited when in consciousness. I think krishna said "you know everything that there is to know" in Bhagavad Gita, because if you know krishna then you are permanently out of this game. The rest of the knowledge however, is temporary and it will cease to exist when we leave our bodies.

 

It is said that one who is enlightened can be dull minded by material standards but could be enlightened... and so on (I read it somewhere) . So, I think the individualized jiva which is effected by the conditioning of its body is going to survive and know krishna who is the omniscient entity and thus be omniscient itself because there is nothing else it needs to know, it is already ahead of the game.

 

I am tring to find myself in chemistry /images/graemlins/smile.gif

www.sunysb.edu/Class/che131

I am not really finding time to post here well, today is an exception

 

I_l_k

[Kulapavana]

while it may be proper for a disciple to see their guru as omniscient that concept should not be stretched philosophically. some loonies in the past even concluded that Srila Prabhupada was God. in Vedic tradition it is often customary to praise the virtues or potency of certain processes or persons in a way which may seem to be an exagerration (you could call it the "extasy of praise")