Guest is God????

[REASWARAN]

The vedantic quote is only illustrative of the divine nature of all humans (even if we dont demonstrate it most of the times). Those of you who are familiar with the Geeta will remember that the final aim of all yogic practices is union with God- the word used is Self- being the real nature of all humans. Hence the statement matro devo bhava, pitra devo bhava, athithi devo bhava - The mother is God, the father is God, the guest is God etc. It is in the nature of illustration of the divine principle. however, I dont think it extends to tolerating an insulting behaviour towards your wife- you could always push him out and make it clear that he is unwelcome. Athithi also implies that the Athithi will conduct himself as a guest. If he does not he no longer remains an Athithi and you are entitled to deal with him as you would deal with an enemy. The Gita does not expect you to be a weakling but a strong person compassionate to the weak and capable of defending those in his care. Trust this helps.

[trupti]

if anyone says anything bad about my family, then sorry to say, someone is in for some BIG trouble!

 

and if someone does start . ......oh helll, itz ON!

i will not stand for it at all. and after saying terrible things, they still think that they have rights to enter my house, then, bhaghvan needs to give them some bhoodhi. because upon entering my house, i will push them out.

 

for instance, i have this one aunt (my mom's brother's wife) that lady has a tenedency to get into other people's business. now if that lady ever ever comes in my house again i just may beat her with a stick. not only has she insulted my family on many occasions, but, she had an influencing role on my older sister just packing her stuff and leaving home. as an aunt, she should give advice saying, "you may want to finish school and keep a good relationship with your mother and father" all she ever does is talk .. why would i let a person like that in my house? im not small anymore where i dont not understand. i am older now and whether my parents like it or not, she will never come inside the house again

 

therefore, haridham, when i do get married and someone talks . bout my husband.......there is not teling what i would do and i would never ever le t that person in my house.

 

 

my question to you is why did you let them in!!!!?????and even after they came into the house....i would leave. i would say, i dont want to be in this houose while these people are! and storm out!

 

i have a flare for drama

[trupti]

and this thing that bhaghvan might come as a guest in my house....i dont think he would come as a coniving old lady! who says bad things about everyone and every thing.

 

and respect is a two way street...if you dont respect me...there is no chance that i will respect u.

[Guest guest]

"Those of you who are familiar with the Geeta will remember that the final aim of all yogic practices is union with God"

-being familiar .. this is very far from the true..

 

"Athithi also implies that the Athithi will conduct himself as a guest. If he does not he no longer remains an Athithi and you are entitled to deal with him as you would deal with an enemy.."

-this is the real answer.. i completely agree

 

this concept that the guest is god is a concocted legend that exixst also in western countries.. there's many legends of jesus and st peter knockin at the door of people disguised as beggars to test the charity and tolerance of the people

 

a similar concept.. criticized often by srila prabhupada.. is the "daridra narayana" one... that serving a poor is equal to serving god, that pious acts are equal to spiritual acts and so on

[Guest guest]

I must confess to being at sea- What in your opinion is the aim of Yoga- Yoga mind you is derived from the sanskrit root Yuk which means to unite. And Yoga is not just asanas- its true meaning is the path to enlightenment.

[Guest guest]

yes... unite by love.. two separated subjects that enjoy their love union... but i reman i, you remain you, and god remains god.. (actually this is the real fun.. how can be love if there's not plurality of subjects and variety??)

 

me and you are united in speaking of spiritual matters on this forum, but we do not merge and we do not become the same entity

 

we and god.... union in substance, separation in quantity..

 

arjuna never becomes krishna

[Haridham]

Thank you very much for your post.

 

That person is forever blacklisted with me from ever smiling to him and not kicking his a*s. He knows that I know that he was the one spreading rumors. He finds joy in that as he always give me the evil eye and smirks when he see's me. I didnt let him either, he came because him and my parents are friends and unfortunatly my parents have taken their side. I guess when you have bad association your family life or personal life is doomed.

 

The thing is that he is real envious of me so he started this rumor where he thought he could hurt me the most. Ofcourse I will defend the honor of my wife.

 

Its Sad to hear about your sister leaving home but these people's main goal in life is to do nonsense like this. Your aunt and this guy should get together.

 

If you understand what I mean then you know a lot of these guju's hate each other. I understand your background is ar patel and from I understand Patels and Soni's hate each other. I think we should put them in a room somewhere so they can wipe each other out. You probably understand what I mean. I mean the soni people hate me a lot because I dont smoke, drink or do drugs and I got so many marriage offers(which I didnt care for as I wanted to only marry a devotee) and their sons are like drug addicts and such so they get upset that I am dedicated and have a little conrol of my life since I am dedicated to krsna.

 

I am serious about this though, I dont mind the Patels but the soni's are extremely demoniac. They spread rumors about each other, they also ruined my wife's sisters life and her friends life.

 

I will defend my wife's honour just like Ram protected his wife's honor. I will never leave my wife(unless she is mean, then I will take sanyass lol) my wife is my first duty

 

They will all pay karmicly one day I think his karma is that he will get his teeth knocked out by me.

 

Thanks for understanding.

 

Hare Krsna

 

 

[gHari]

And not an imprisonable offense.

[Haridham]

And not an imprisonable offense

 

?????

 

what exactly does the term the pen is mightier then the sword or in this case the toungue is mightier then the sword mean?

 

If the pen is mightier then the sword, you suggest I should stab him with a pen??

[gHari]

Bust his head and go to jail. Fix his head letting Krsna tell him the truth, then he can find some shame and apologize. Until he apologizes he does not exist.

[REASWARAN]

I am afraid you do not follow. You see Arjuna is more real than Krishna - They are all manifestations of the same truth -it is this truth that you are searching for- for in the stage of the truth -there are no aspirations - which may sound strange to you- but compare it with a stage of contentment when you have fulfilled some desire and you will know what I mean. The individual is all important in the west , but the eastern mind understands the insignificance of the individual

 

[Guest guest]

I am afraid you do not follow

-i follow very well, it is impossible to demonstrate that arjuna and krsna in the gita are less than two eternal , complete and different personalities

 

You see Arjuna is more real than Krishna

-i do not see it, they're , in their different position extremely real and well depicted as complete and attractive personalities

 

They are all manifestations of the same truth

- yes, the same in quality, different in quantity.. like you and krsna, me and krsna and so on

 

it is this truth that you are searching for

-no.. a truth where's no personalities, relations and love make me desire to remain in the material world, here i have a wife, friends, variety, love.. much better

 

which may sound strange to you

-definitely no.. you are speculating on my thoughts..

 

but compare it with a stage of contentment when you have fulfilled some desire and you will know what I mean

-ok, but if in this world there are desires it is inconceivable that in the absolute world desires are missing.. so there are desires, but they do not bring pain and sorrow like in the material world , they bring bliss.. gopis increase their deep love for krsna when he's away and they intensely desire his return.. so everything is bliss there.

A simple eternal rest in the brahman is not unreal, but it is not the best thing available as spiritual realization.. read bhagavatam, gita and prabhupada books

 

The individual is all important in the west , but the eastern mind understands the insignificance of the individual

-it is an old (newageish) refrain that is better for you to abandone, it is so false that in the mantra of my spiritual master bhaktivedanta swami prabhupada there's written: ".... he comes to defeat the impersonalism and nichilism of the western countries.."

 

so there's no shortage of "insignificance of the individuality" in the west and, if you study vaishnavism, and gaudya vaishnavism, there's not a better and more evolute way to explain the eternal individuality of the living being than "indian" philosophy

 

so discuss with me, if you want, but do not judge me with imaginary cliches if you are interested in an honest exchange

 

hare krishna

 

[REASWARAN]

You do not see at all, my friend. You see in my sentence re Arjuna and Krishna due to a typo I had omitted "no" the sentence should have been "no more real than Krishna". You did not catch the innate contradiction- So perhaps we should terminate this discussion- it is a pointless one

[Haridham]

Mr REASWARAN, lets take it easy now. You are in a form with poweful devotees of krsna so take it easy. Some of them dont like the fact that their Lord is considered nothingness or impersonal or limited according to the posters own limitations.

 

 

anyways, This guest came to my house yesterday as I was leaving and I promptly by "mistake" bumped into him and I think now the game has just begun.

[Guest guest]

 

Or when my kids got a little older, about 14 years old, I found out a 'devotee' asked them for drugs! When they found out they did not take drugs (gee, thanks for making it sound exicting to them!), they next asked who to score it from!

 

And then there were others I would not let in my house but somhow, because they were a devotee, got their foot in the door. Sure, you can talk only Krishna katha. And they will listen because they ARE deovtees. And when they leave, they will sneakily ask you kid if they want to go out drinking until 2 a.m. (This last one did 'not' happen, but it gives you the idea of the ways such 'devotees' are capable of disempowering their host.)

 

 

 

The above illustrates why I do not live amongst devotees. To clarify that, I would love to live among devotees, but not among "devotees."

 

The "devotees" referred to above sound much worse than my Hindu/Indian karmi acquaintances. At least with them so far I haven't had to worry about drugs or alcohol. But then maybe that's because I pick my friends carefully.

 

As far as the original question goes, I believe the quote "atithi devo bhava" is from Taitiriiya Upanishad. It refers to the fact that one's guru, one's parents, one's guest, etc are all in a sense representatives of Vishnu and thus deserve respect.

 

We can apparently justify not giving respect because we think this guru is a phony or that "guest" is a troublemaker, but it could also be that our perceptions of them are incorrect. Thus, in Vedic culture, one should *always* offer respects to these individuals.

 

Keep in mind, though, that offering respect does not mean turning a blind eye. If you know someone is a troublemaker, I suggest finding more creative ways of dealing with them than banning them from your house. My favorite approach, when having to put up with friends of my family whom I detest, is to be all syrupy with them up front while simultaneously and very publicly criticizing activities which I know they do, but which they have not made anyone aware of. Thus, they can't defend themselves because to do so would be to admit to their indiscretions. :-)

 

Aren't I Evil?

 

[REASWARAN]

Shri Haridham. Your point is taken. It is not my intention to upset anyone. The only point I was making is that Hinduism, in the final analysis, moves away from the concrete to the formless. But I do appreciate that it encompasses in its fold the entire spectrum of devotees according to their needs. No quarrel there.

[Priitaa]

 

The above illustrates why I do not live amongst devotees. To clarify that, I would love to live among devotees, but not among "devotees."

 

The "devotees" referred to above sound much worse than my Hindu/Indian karmi acquaintances. At least with them so far I haven't had to worry about drugs or alcohol. But then maybe that's because I pick my friends carefully.

 

 

I do not appreciate you using my post in the way you have. So I want to clear things up. You are lumping in all ISKCON devotees. I never said they are all like that. AND my complaint was for those who have also lived it, therefore ISKCON members, not for someone who loves to criticize ISKCON but glorify Hindu's. I have no problem with Hindus, but you clearly have problem with ISKCON. In any case, don't try to make it sound like serious problems do not exit with Hindus, because I could give you a list of those too. Stop using every chance you get to put us down and glorify yourself. I can tell you horrible things Hindus have also done, so don't force my hand. I myself do not discriminate, but you do.

 

YS,

Priitaa dd

[theist]

We will never find a perfect religious group in this world. That we must first find within ourselves.

 

Not that groups of people shouldn't group together and strive together in various ways and seek that perfection together, helping each other and accepting help in various ways.

 

I am just saying don't look for a perfect group before you avail yourself of the potential benefit their association might bring.

 

 

[theist]

Reaswaran

The only point I was making is that Hinduism, in the final analysis, moves away from the concrete to the formless.

 

 

I don't want to redirect this thread but I couldn't let this pass without comment.

 

Actually the spiritual world of form is the one of real substance. This material dream state is actually formless.

 

If you could watch the desk you are now sitting at long enough you would watch it dissipate before your eyes like the wispy vapor that it is. But the influence of the time factor keeps the illusion intact.

 

Even now though that same desk if seen from a purely atomic level wouldn't be seen as a desk. Nothing truly concrete about this world.

[Priitaa]

Actually Thiest, I am glad you did make that post or I was going to, and I really don't feel like it. ha But this impersonalism confused to be the same as Krishna consciousness (Personalims) needs clearing up, regularly. And that is why Prabhupada came to the west. Well, one reason.

[theist]

Looks like I should have waited a bit. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Priitaa]

Nooooo lol I'm busy taking on the ISKCON hater guy. ha (Actually, I'm not exactly doing that.) You can have this one (topic).

 

Ok, ok, I'll share. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Haridham]

Priitaa and thiest I think you guys are aweseme. You guys have the strength and knowledge to defeat these guys. I follow in your footsteps I am not so intelligent. I am still learning.

 

You guys think its bad that I am initiated but dont know the scriptures to well? I mean I know the basics and I can quote some stuff in english but i dont know much vedic verses.

 

I think Prabhupad is very happy with the service you are doing. We must keep the integrity of ISKCON intact even with this "hindu" iskcon haters because even though they claim to be all cultured and what not they lack the devotion to krsna to understand what iskcon is about.

 

Ofcourse when there are westerners teaching them what their culture is really about then they must find faults right?

 

I wish to learn more.

 

Hare Krsna

[Haridham]

the guest who denounces your culture and sampradaya and considers krsna to be an impersonal object cannot be considered god right???? I mean how can he be god if he has a form since he himself says god doesnt have a form...interesting isnt it.

 

Ofcourse how can something that created you have less attributes then you....hmmmmm...interesting.

 

Anyways, that was my little way of bringing back the thread to its original idea.

 

I like this thread however.

 

Very nice

 

COntinue

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

 

I do not appreciate you using my post in the way you have. So I want to clear things up. You are lumping in all ISKCON devotees. I never said they are all like that. AND my complaint was for those who have also lived it, therefore ISKCON members, not for someone who loves to criticize ISKCON but glorify Hindu's. I have no problem with Hindus, but you clearly have problem with ISKCON. In any case, don't try to make it sound like serious problems do not exit with Hindus, because I could give you a list of those too. Stop using every chance you get to put us down and glorify yourself. I can tell you horrible things Hindus have also done, so don't force my hand. I myself do not discriminate, but you do.

 

 

 

{sigh}

 

certain individuals on this forum really need to get their blood pressures checked