Guest is God????

[REASWARAN]

There is a difference between God (Brahman if you wish) and the manfestation of Brahman in human form. I do not see how this could be confused and hence am not able to understand why my statment that God has no form has aroused so much ire. Would someone please explain ?

[gHari]

This is the meaning of 'without form', 'formless'. He is beyond this world of form and time. His arms and legs stretch everywhere. He can eat anything anywhere. His unborn spiritual form of eternity, knowledge and bliss is not bound by the laws of the world of mundane form.

 

Lord Brahma after his trance in ecstasy where Sri Govinda revealed His true nature began singing praise to the Primal Lord Syamasundara, Krsna, the Cause of All Causes:<blockquote><center>isvarah paramah krsnah

<font color="blue">sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah</font>

anadir adir govindah

sarva-karana-karanam

</center>

isvarah -- the controller; paramah -- supreme; krsnah -- Lord Krsna; <font color="blue">sat -- comprising eternal existence; cit -- absolute knowledge; ananda -- and absolute bliss; vigrahah -- whose form;</font> anadih -- without beginning; adih -- the origin; govindah -- Lord Govinda; sarva-karana-karanam -- the cause of all causes.

Krsna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.

 

PURPORT

Krsna is the exalted Supreme entity having His eternal name, eternal form, eternal attribution and eternal pastimes. The very name "Krsna" implies His love-attracting designation, expressing by His eternal nomenclature the acme of entity. His eternal beautiful heavenly blue-tinged body glowing with the intensity of ever-existing knowledge has a flute in both His hands. As His inconceivable spiritual energy is all-extending, still He maintains His all-charming medium size by His qualifying spiritual instrumentals. His all-accommodating supreme subjectivity is nicely manifested in His eternal form. The concentrated all-time presence, uncovered knowledge and inebriating felicity have their beauty in Him. The mundane manifestive portion of His own Self is known as all-pervading Paramatma, Isvara (Superior Lord) or Visnu (All-fostering). Hence it is evident that Krsna is sole Supreme Godhead. His unrivaled or unique spiritual body of superexcellent charm is eternally unveiled with innumerable spiritual instrumentals (senses) and unreckonable attributes keeping their signifying location properly, adjusting at the same time by His inconceivable conciliative powers. This beautiful spiritual figure is identical with Krsna and the spiritual entity of Krsna is identical with His own figure.

 

The very intensely blended entity of eternal presence of felicitous cognition is the charming targeted holding or transcendental icon. It follows that the conception of the indistinguishable formless magnitude (Brahman) which is an indolent, lax, presentment of cognitive bliss, is merely a penumbra of intensely blended glow of the three concomitants, viz., the blissful, the substantive and the cognitive. This transcendental manifestive icon Krsna in His original face is primordial background of magnitudinal infinite Brahman and of the all-pervasive oversoul. Krsna as truly visioned in His variegated pastimes, such as owner of transcendental cows, chief of cowherds, consort of milk-maids, ruler of the terrestrial abode Gokula and object of worship by transcendental residents of Goloka beauties, is Govinda. He is the root cause of all causes who are the predominating and predominated agents of the universe. The glance of His projected fractional portion in the sacred originating water viz., the personal oversoul or Paramatma, gives rise to a secondary potency -- nature who creates this mundane universe. This oversoul's intermediate energy brings forth the individual souls analogously to the emanated rays of the sun.

 

This book is a treatise of Krsna; so the preamble is enacted by chanting His name in the beginning. [brahma-Samhita 5.1]

</blockquote>

 

<center><img src=http://home.primus.ca/~caitanya/Syamasundara.jpg></center>

 

If I admire the results of your energy, like your internet writings for example, but have no real interest in who you are, or perhaps even say that there is no person behind the writings (that the writing energy is not owned by any person); then you might see this as somewhat cold and dispassionate. Perhaps you would feel as distant to me as I appear to be with you. If I insist on separating your opulence, your writings from you and admiring only them, I may well at some point conclude that the writings are simply products of the writing potential itself, and that we are all that writing potential. Therefore I am actually the author of all your articles. It is I who am to praised and admired. One day I will realize my full splendor in its infinite majesty.

 

Discounting you by first separating you from your opulences and then actually stealing them to enhance my own ego is simply delusion. This is what is going on, and perhaps it is necessary in the beginning to get beyond our innate envious natures. Eventually we will be able to see the other side of the same coin that is described very clearly in the Vedas. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, as He truly is, exists inconceivably in both His personal and impersonal natures simultaneously. He is All That Is, yet simultaneously forever He remains aloof as the Primal Person, the prime Cause of All Causes. And that is the whole truth; our reality. Who said it would be easy?

 

 

[gHari]

Lord Caitanya warns in Caitanya-caritamrita Madhya-Lila 6.167:<blockquote><center>zrI-vigraha ye nA mAne, sei ta' pASaNDI

adRzya aspRzya, sei haya yama-daNDI

</center>

zrI-vigraha--the form of the Lord; ye--anyone who; nA--not; mAne--accepts; sei--he; ta'--indeed; pASaNDI--agnostic; adRzya--not to be seen; aspRzya--untouchable; sei--he; haya--is; yama-daNDI--subject to be punished by YamarAja.

"One who does not accept the transcendental form of the Lord is certainly an agnostic. Such a person should be neither seen nor touched. Indeed, he is subject to be punished by YamarAja."

 

PURPORT

According to the Vedic instructions, the Supreme Personality of Godhead has His eternal, transcendental form, which is always blissful and full of knowledge. Impersonalists think that "material" refers to the forms within our experience and that "spiritual" refers to an absence of form. However, one should know that beyond this material nature is another nature, which is spiritual. Just as there are material forms in this material world, there are spiritual forms in the spiritual world. This is confirmed by all Vedic literature. The spiritual forms in the transcendental world have nothing to do with the negative conception of formlessness. The conclusion is that a person is an agnostic when he does not agree to worship the transcendental form of the Lord.

 

Actually, at the present moment all systems of religion deny the worship of the form of the Lord due to ignorance of His transcendental form. The first-class materialists (the MAyAvAdIs) imagine five specific forms of the Lord, but when they try to equate the worship of such imaginary forms with bhakti, they are immediately condemned. Lord SrI KRSNa confirms this in the Bhagavad-gItA (7.15), where He says, na mAM duSkRtino mUDhAH prapadyante narAdhamAH.

 

Bereft of real knowledge due to agnosticism, the MAyAvAdI philosophers should not even be seen by the devotees of the Lord, nor touched, because those philosophers are liable to be punished by YamarAja, the superintendent demigod who judges the activities of sinful men. The MAyAvAdI agnostics wander within this universe in different species of life due to their nondevotional activities. Such living entities are subjected to the punishments of YamarAja. Only the devotees, who are always engaged in the service of the Lord, are exempt from the jurisdiction of YamarAja.</blockquote>

[gHari]

Sri Krsna Caitanya explains spiritual form and formlessness in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya chapter 25:<blockquote><center>Personal and Impersonal Realization</center>

 

The PurANas are called supplementary Vedic literatures. Because sometimes in the original Vedas the subject matter is too difficult for the common man to understand, the PurANas explain matters simply by the use of stories and historical incidents. In SrImad-BhAgavatam (10.14.32) it is stated that MahArAja Nanda and the cowherd men and inhabitants of VRndAvana are very fortunate because the Supreme Brahman, the Personality of Godhead, full of bliss, engages in His eternal pastimes as their friend.

 

According to SvetAzvatara UpaniSad, the apANi-pAdo javano grahItA mantra confirms that although Brahman has no material hands and legs, He nonetheless walks in a very stately way and accepts everything that is offered to Him. This suggests that He has transcendental limbs and is therefore not impersonal. One who does not understand the Vedic principles simply stresses the impersonal material features of the Supreme Absolute Truth and thus incorrectly calls the Absolute Truth impersonal. The impersonalist MAyAvAdI philosophers want to establish the Absolute Truth as impersonal, but this is in contradiction to Vedic literature. Although Vedic literatures confirm the fact that the Supreme Absolute Truth has multiple energies, the MAyAvAdI impersonalists still try to establish that the Absolute Truth has no energy. The fact remains, however, that the Absolute Truth is full of energy and is a person as well. It is not possible to establish Him as impersonal.

 

According to the ViSNu PurANa (6.7.61–3), the living entities are considered kSetrajJa energy. Although the living entity is part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and is fully cognizant, he nonetheless becomes entrapped by material contamination and suffers all the miseries of material life. Such living entities live in different ways in accordance to the degree of their entanglement in material nature. The original energy of the Supreme Lord is spiritual and nondifferent from the Supreme Absolute Personality of Godhead. The living entity is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord, and the material energy is called the inferior energy. Due to his material inebriety, the living entity in the marginal position becomes entangled with the inferior energy, matter. At such a time he forgets his spiritual significance, identifies himself with material energy and thereby becomes subjected to the threefold miseries. Only when he is free from such material contamination can he be situated in his proper position.

 

According to Vedic instructions, one should understand the constitutional position of the living entity, the position of the Lord, and the position of material energy in their interrelation. First of all, one should try to understand the constitutional position of the Supreme Lord, the Personality of Godhead. That Supreme Lord has an eternal, cognizant, blissful body, and His spiritual energy is distributed as eternity, knowledge and bliss. In His blissful identity can be found His pleasure potency, and in His eternal identity He can be seen as the cause of everything. In His cognizant identity, He is the supreme knowledge. Indeed, the word kRSNa indicates that supreme knowledge. In other words, the Supreme Personality, KRSNa, is the reservoir of all knowledge, pleasure and eternity. The supreme knowledge of KRSNa is exhibited in three different energies--internal, marginal and external. By virtue of His internal energy, He exists in Himself with His spiritual paraphernalia; by means of His marginal energy, He exhibits Himself as the living entities, and by means of His external energy He exhibits Himself as material energy. Behind each and every energetic exhibition there is the background of eternity, pleasure, potency and full cognizance.

 

The conditioned soul is the marginal potency overpowered by the external potency. However, when the marginal potency comes under the jurisdiction of the spiritual potency, it becomes eligible for love of Godhead. The Supreme Lord enjoys six kinds of opulences, and no one can establish that He is formless or that He is without energy. If someone claims so, his contention is completely opposed to the Vedic instructions. Actually the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the master of ali energies. It is only the living entity, who is an infinitesimal part and parcel of Him, who is overpowered by the material energy.

 

In the MuNDaka UpaniSad it is stated that there are two birds sitting on the same tree, and one of these birds is eating the fruit of this tree while the other bird is simply witnessing his activities. Only when the bird eating the fruit looks at the other bird does he become free from all anxieties. This is the position of the infinitesimal living entity. As long as he is forgetful of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who witnesses all his activities, he is subjected to the threefold miseries. But when he looks to the Supreme Lord and becomes the Supreme Lord's devotee, he becomes free from all anxieties and material miseries. The living entity is eternally subordinate to the Supreme Lord; the Supreme Lord is always the master of all energies, whereas the living entity is always under the domination of the Lord's energies. Although qualitatively one with the Supreme Lord, the living entity has the tendency to lord it over material nature; however, being infinitesimal, he is actually controlled by material nature. Thus the living entity is called the marginal potency of the Lord.

 

Because the living entity tends to be controlled by material nature, he cannot at any stage become one with the Supreme Lord. If a living entity were equal to the Supreme Lord, there would be no possibility of his being controlled by material energy. In Bhagavad-gItA the living entity is described as one of the energies of the Supreme Lord. Although inseparable from the energetic, energy is still energy, and it cannot be equal with the energetic. In other words, the living entity is simultaneously one and different from the Supreme Lord. Bhagavad-gItA (7.4–5) clearly states that earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego are the eight elementary energies of the Supreme Lord and are of inferior quality, whereas the living entity is of superior quality. The Vedic literatures confirm the fact that the transcendental form of the Supreme Lord is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge.

 

The form of the Supreme Lord which is beyond the modes of material nature is not like the forms of this material world. His form is fully spiritual and cannot be compared with any material form. According to Vedic literatures, one who does not accept the spiritual form of the Supreme Lord is an atheist. Because Lord Buddha did not accept these Vedic principles, the Vedic teachers consider him to be an atheist. Although MAyAvAdI philosophers pretend to accept the Vedic principles, they indirectly preach Buddhist philosophy, or atheistic philosophy, and do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead. MAyAvAdI philosophy is inferior to Buddhist philosophy, which directly denies Vedic authority. Because it is disguised as VedAnta philosophy, MAyAvAdI philosophy is more dangerous than Buddhism or atheism.

 

VedAnta-sUtra is compiled by VyAsadeva for the benefit of all living entities. It is through VedAnta-sUtra that the philosophy of bhakti-yoga can be understood. Unfortunately, the MAyAvAdI commentary, SArIraka-bhASya, has practically defeated the purpose of VedAnta-sUtra. In the MAyAvAdI commentary, the spiritual, transcendental form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead has been denied, and the Supreme Brahman has been dragged down to the level of the individual Brahman, the living entity. Both the Supreme Brahman and the individual Brahman have been denied spiritual form and individuality, although it is clearly stated that the Supreme Lord is the one supreme living entity and the other living entities are the many subordinate living entities. Thus reading the MAyAvAdI commentaries on VedAnta-sUtra is always dangerous. The chief danger is that through these commentaries one may come to consider the living entity to be equal to the Supreme Lord. It is easy for a conditioned living entity to be falsely directed in this way, and once he is so directed he can never come to his actual position or enjoy his eternal activity in bhakti yoga. In other words, the MAyAvAdI philosophy has rendered the greatest disservice to humanity by promoting the impersonal view of the Supreme Lord. Thus MAyAvAdI philosophers deprive human society of the real message of VedAnta-sUtra.

 

From the very beginning of VedAnta-sUtra it is accepted that the cosmic manifestation is but an energetic display of the Supreme Lord. The very first aphorism (janmAdy asya [sB 1.1.1]) describes the Supreme Brahman as He from whom everything emanates. Everything is maintained by Him, and everything is dissolved in Him. Thus the Absolute Truth is the cause of creation, maintenance and dissolution. The cause of a piece of fruit is the tree; when a tree produces a piece of fruit, one cannot say that the tree is impersonal. The tree may produce hundreds and thousands of fruits, but it remains as it is. The fruit is produced, and it develops and stays for some time; then it dwindles and vanishes. This does not mean that the tree also vanishes. Thus from the very beginning the VedAnta-sUtra explains the doctrine of by-products. These activities of production, maintenance and dissolution are carried out by the inconceivable energy of the Supreme Lord. The cosmic manifestation is a transformation of the energy of the Supreme Lord, although the energy of the Supreme Lord and the Supreme Lord Himself are nondifferent and inseparable. A touchstone may produce great quantities of gold in contact with iron, but still the touchstone remains as it is. Despite His producing huge material cosmic manifestations, the Supreme Lord is always in His transcendental form.

 

MAyAvAdI philosophy has the audacity to reject the purpose of VyAsadeva, as explained in the VedAnta-sUtra, and to attempt to establish a doctrine of transformation which is totally imaginary. According to the MAyAvAdI philosophy, the cosmic manifestation is but the transformation of the Absolute Truth, and the Absolute Truth has no separate existence outside the cosmic manifestation. This is not the message of VedAnta-sUtra. The transformation has been explained by MAyAvAdI philosophers as false, but it is not false. It is only temporary. The MAyAvAdI philosophers maintain that the Absolute Truth is the only truth and that this material manifestation known as the world is false. Actually this is not the case. The material contamination is not exactly false; because it is relative truth, it is temporary. There is a difference between something that is temporary and something that is false.

 

PraNava, or oMkAra, is the chief vibration found in the Vedic hymns, and oMkAra is considered to be the sound form of the Supreme Lord. From oMkAra all Vedic hymns have emanated, and the world itself has also emanated from this oMkAra sound. The words tat tvam asi, also found in the Vedic hymns, are not the chief vibrations but are explanations of the constitutional position of the living entity. Tat tvam asi means that the living entity is a spiritual particle of the supreme spirit, but this is not the chief motif of the VedAnta or Vedic literatures. The chief sound representation of the Supreme is oMkAra.

 

All these faulty explanations of VedAnta-sUtra are considered atheistic. Because the MAyAvAdI philosophers do not accept the eternal transcendental form of the Supreme Lord, they are unable to engage in real devotional service. Thus the MAyAvAdI philosopher is forever bereft of KRSNa consciousness and KRSNa's devotional service. The pure devotee of the Personality of Godhead never accepts the MAyAvAdI philosophy as an actual path to transcendental realization. The MAyAvAdI philosophers hover in the moral and immoral material atmosphere of the cosmic world and consequently are always engaged in rejecting and accepting material enjoyment. They have falsely accepted the nonspiritual as the spiritual, and as a result they have forgotten the spiritual eternal form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as well as His name, quality and entourage. They consider the transcendental pastimes, name, form and qualities of the Supreme to be products of material nature. Because of their acceptance and rejection of material pleasure and misery, the MAyAvAdI philosophers are eternally subjected to material misery.

 

The actual devotees of the Lord are always in disagreement with the MAyAvAdI philosophers. There is no way that impersonalism can possibly represent eternity, bliss and knowledge. Being situated in imperfect knowledge of liberation, the MAyAvAdI decries eternity, knowledge and bliss as materialism. Because they reject devotional service, they are unintelligent and unable to understand the effects of devotional service. The word jugglery they use in an attempt to amalgamate knowledge, the knowable and the knower simply reveals them to be unintelligent. The doctrine of by-product is the real purport of the beginning of VedAnta-sUtra. The Lord is empowered with innumerable unlimited energies, and consequently He displays the by-products of these energies in different ways. Everything is under His control. The Supreme Lord is also the supreme controller, and He is manifested in innumerable energies and expansions.</blockquote>

[REASWARAN]

"This is the meaning of 'without form', 'formless'. He is beyond this world of form and time. His arms and legs stretch everywhere. He can eat anything anywhere. His unborn spiritual form of eternity, knowledge and bliss is not bound by the laws of the world of mundane form"

 

Would you like to explain how this is different from the definition I gave ? In two simple lines please ?

[Priitaa]

 

--

 

 

I do not appreciate you using my post in the way you have. So I want to clear things up. You are lumping in all ISKCON devotees. I never said they are all like that. AND my complaint was for those who have also lived it, therefore ISKCON members, not for someone who loves to criticize ISKCON but glorify Hindu's. I have no problem with Hindus, but you clearly have problem with ISKCON. In any case, don't try to make it sound like serious problems do not exit with Hindus, because I could give you a list of those too. Stop using every chance you get to put us down and glorify yourself. I can tell you horrible things Hindus have also done, so don't force my hand. I myself do not discriminate, but you do.

 

 

 

--

 

 

 

{sigh}

 

certain individuals on this forum really need to get their blood pressures checked

 

 

I am that certain person yet I sign my posts. Whats your name?

 

Actually, certain people on this forum need to stop making offenses to Srila Prabhupada and all connected to him. According to shastra, one should become angry upon hearing such things.

 

The fact is, you misused my words and my point, changing it into your point. Then if I balk, I am the one with the problem. Such twistings.

[Haridham]

These people will remain annonymous because they dont want to be exposed as rascals and fools. There is no point in arguing with them.

 

Its all a game to them, they want to make you angry because they have no other menas to defeat you.

 

Priita ji its best to move on, I mean I was having a battle with a certian mayavadi and no matter what you do what proof you present they wont budge because their false ego is larger then their intelligence.

 

We are here for krsna the supreme personality and the original PERSON and we should battle hard when people disrespect Prahbupad and his movement. He are all spiritual warriors against maya and these are maya's agents who use word juggelery to defend their purpose which is minute compare to what Prabhupad brought us.

 

There are future generations waiting in the wings, we are the future of iskcon and Srila Prabhupads movement. Some of us like me need to better prepare and I am glad you and other devotees are around in this forum and all over the world. They cant defeat something that is from Krsna.

 

I wish that we could help each other more as there are many philosophies that I need help with defeating, most of which is mayavad philosophy but that we can talk later. There are people on this form that need a little bit of real krsna conscioussness. If we aall work together ther shoudnt be a problem.Right now do not worry about these small hurdles.

 

Krsna is helping us become stronger.

 

Hare Krsna

[gHari]

I can't seem to locate your definition of formless, but I think you may not have yet described the unborn nature of Krsna's spiritual form of Syamasundara, as in the last sentence:<blockquote>"His unborn spiritual form of eternity, knowledge and bliss is not bound by the laws of the world of mundane form"</blockquote>

But then, maybe you did. If not, there is a nice book reference from Lord Brahma above in which he details God's original form, as depicted in the painting above.

 

gHari

[Haridham]

I already sent him the verse from the Brahma Samhita but he still thinks krsna has no form and all this other wacky stuff.

 

You should read his post on moksa.

 

Oh by, I think I did it again.

 

Hare Krsna

[REASWARAN]

Perhaps you would like to refer to my posts- Nowhere have I mentioned Krishna as the formless one. Krishna is the human manifestation of the universal power- known as Brahman or The supreme being if you will - beyond nama and rupa - names and forms. Personal Gods are only a destination which you pass enroute to being merged with the formless.

[Dom]

I know that most of you here are devotees of Hindu ideologies, but for me the phrase"a guest is as good as God" sounds very simple. It reminds me of the teachings of Jesus Christ....."What so ever you do to the least of my people, that you do onto me."

 

Although the ultimate goal is of course detachment from the world, in a sense not loving or hating anything. Love is the best course of action in this world right now.

[Guest guest]

Very nicely said indeed. It is very simple. Also, the people here are the students of all religions, not just ISKCON hinduism, but everything.

[gHari]

This is explained by A.C. Bhaktivedanta in a letter:<blockquote>"Regarding your question about the Brahmajyoti, it is explained in Bhagavad-gita that the impersonal Brahman effulgence is emanating from Bhagavan, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The brahmajyoti is just like the sunlight, which emanates from the Sun God: Because the sunlight has no personal form, this does not mean that the Sun God has become impersonal. You have seen in pictures of Lord Krishna that there is a nice effulgence coming forth from His body. This effulgence is the Brahmajyoti, and it is pervading throughout the entire spiritual and material manifestation. But above this Brahmajyoti is the Supreme Source of everything, Lord Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I hope this important point is clear to you now."</blockquote>

Or perhaps Lord Krsna might be accepted as an authority in Bhagavad-gita 7.24:<blockquote><center><font color=red>avyaktaM vyaktim ApannaM

manyante mAm abuddhayaH

paraM bhAvam ajAnanto

mamAvyayam anuttamam

</center>

avyaktam--nonmanifested; vyaktim--personality; Apannam--achieved; manyante--think; mAm--Me; abuddhayaH--less intelligent persons; param--supreme; bhAvam--existence; ajAnantaH--without knowing; mama--My; avyayam--imperishable; anuttamam--the finest.

</font>

Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, KRSNa, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme.

 

PURPORT

Those who are worshipers of demigods have been described as less intelligent persons, and here the impersonalists are similarly described. Lord KRSNa in His personal form is here speaking before Arjuna, and still, due to ignorance, impersonalists argue that the Supreme Lord ultimately has no form. YAmunAcArya, a great devotee of the Lord in the disciplic succession of RAmAnujAcArya, has written two very appropriate verses in this connection. He says,

<center>

tvAM zIla-rUpa-caritaiH parama-prakRSTaiH

sattvena sAttvikatayA prabalaiz ca zAstraiH

prakhyAta-daiva-paramArtha-vidAM mataiz ca

naivAsura-prakRtayaH prabhavanti boddhum

</center>

"My dear Lord, devotees like VyAsadeva and NArada know You to be the Personality of Godhead. By understanding different Vedic literatures, one can come to know Your characteristics, Your form and Your activities, and one can thus understand that You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But those who are in the modes of passion and ignorance, the demons, the nondevotees, cannot understand You. They are unable to understand You. However expert such nondevotees may be in discussing VedAnta and the UpaniSads and other Vedic literatures, it is not possible for them to understand the Personality of Godhead." (Stotra-ratna 12)

 

In the Brahma-saMhitA it is stated that the Personality of Godhead cannot be understood simply by study of the VedAnta literature. Only by the mercy of the Supreme Lord can the Personality of the Supreme be known. Therefore in this verse it is clearly stated that not only are the worshipers of the demigods less intelligent, but those nondevotees who are engaged in VedAnta and speculation on Vedic literature without any tinge of true KRSNa consciousness are also less intelligent, and for them it is not possible to understand God's personal nature. Persons who are under the impression that the Absolute Truth is impersonal are described as abuddhayaH, which means those who do not know the ultimate feature of the Absolute Truth. In the SrImad-BhAgavatam it is stated that supreme realization begins from the impersonal Brahman and then rises to the localized Supersoul--but the ultimate word in the Absolute Truth is the Personality of Godhead. Modern impersonalists are still less intelligent, for they do not even follow their great predecessor SaGkarAcArya, who has specifically stated that KRSNa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Impersonalists, therefore, not knowing the Supreme Truth, think KRSNa to be only the son of DevakI and Vasudeva, or a prince, or a powerful living entity. This is also condemned in the Bhagavad-gItA (9.11). AvajAnanti mAM mUDhA mAnuSIM tanum Azritam: "Only the fools regard Me as an ordinary person."

 

The fact is that no one can understand KRSNa without rendering devotional service and without developing KRSNa consciousness. The BhAgavatam (10.14.29) confirms this:

<center>

athApi te deva padAmbuja-dvaya-

prasAda-lezAnugRhIta eva hi

jAnAti tattvaM bhagavan-mahimno

na cAnya eko 'pi ciraM vicinvan

</center>

"My Lord, if one is favored by even a slight trace of the mercy of Your lotus feet, he can understand the greatness of Your personality. But those who speculate to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead are unable to know You, even though they continue to study the Vedas for many years." One cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, KRSNa, or His form, quality or name simply by mental speculation or by discussing Vedic literature. One must understand Him by devotional service. When one is fully engaged in KRSNa consciousness, beginning by chanting the mahA-mantra--Hare KRSNa, Hare KRSNa, KRSNa KRSNa, Hare Hare/ Hare RAma, Hare RAma, RAma RAma, Hare Hare--then only can one understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nondevotee impersonalists think that KRSNa has a body made of this material nature and that all His activities, His form and everything are mAyA. These impersonalists are known as MAyAvAdIs. They do not know the ultimate truth.

 

The twentieth verse clearly states, kAmais tais tair hRta-jJAnAH prapadyante 'nya-devatAH. "Those who are blinded by lusty desires surrender unto the different demigods." It is accepted that besides the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there are demigods who have their different planets, and the Lord also has a planet. As stated in the twenty-third verse, devAn deva-yajo yAnti mad-bhaktA yAnti mAm api: the worshipers of the demigods go to the different planets of the demigods, and those who are devotees of Lord KRSNa go to the KRSNaloka planet. Although this is clearly stated, the foolish impersonalists still maintain that the Lord is formless and that these forms are impositions. From the study of the GItA does it appear that the demigods and their abodes are impersonal? Clearly, neither the demigods nor KRSNa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, are impersonal. They are all persons; Lord KRSNa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and He has His own planet, and the demigods have theirs.

 

Therefore the monistic contention that ultimate truth is formless and that form is imposed does not hold true. It is clearly stated here that it is not imposed. From the Bhagavad-gItA we can clearly understand that the forms of the demigods and the form of the Supreme Lord are simultaneously existing and that Lord KRSNa is sac-cid-Ananda, eternal blissful knowledge. The Vedas also confirm that the Supreme Absolute Truth is Ananda-mayo 'bhyAsAt, or by nature full of blissful pleasure, and that He is the reservoir of unlimited auspicious qualities. And in the GItA the Lord says that although He is aja (unborn), He still appears. These are the facts that we should understand from the Bhagavad-gItA. We cannot understand how the Supreme Personality of Godhead can be impersonal; the imposition theory of the impersonalist monist is false as far as the statements of the GItA are concerned. It is clear herein that the Supreme Absolute Truth, Lord KRSNa, has both form and personality.</blockquote>

gHari

[Govindaram]

From above:

"This effulgence is the Brahmajyoti, and it is pervading throughout the entire spiritual and material manifestation."

 

I was wondering i read in Easy Journey to other Planets that 'dark matter' is spiritual, so is 'this'-- the brahmajyoti of krishna in dark form?..