Only read Srila Prabhupada Books (iskcon)

[Govindaram]

 

did His Divine Grace say this about all books as in..

 

Books of previous araryas six gowsamis, bhaktivida thakura etc

 

I have been reading Harinama C, and feel i should not be,

 

any comments, questions, typos! help!

 

 

[Guest guest]

the books of srila prabhupada have surely preminence, especially for the westerners, because they have the best comments and explanations and exactly suited for people who's starting from zero learning vaishnavism.. but, had a solid basis with them it is possible to read many devotional things by other precedents and presents acharyas finding great spiritual advancement

 

basically it is a subject to be discussed with our own spiritual master, but the "exclusivism" of srila prabhupada is mainly for people who wants to gratificate posing at advanced scholars but ignoring the basis of the knowledge written in bhagavad gita as it is, bhagavata purana, chaitanya charitamrita etc.

[Govindaram]

may Gurus have their own books out,

so if we read their books..isn't that

deviating from SP intructions already?

 

i mean come on..SP books are the best,

why Iskon Gurus have own books out?

 

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND...

 

then bhakta's say ONLy read iskon approved books,

don't read bhaktivida books etc,

 

whats going on??

again whats going on???

[livingentity]

am I misunderstanding you or are you saying that Srila Prabhupada did not provide us with anything but rudimentary info...that we cannot advance by reading only His books?

 

Unless I misunderstand you I find this post extremely offensive.

 

If I have misunderstood you and you meant otherwise then please accept my apologies.

 

In the meantime, explain your position on this.

[theist]

careful we we hear from. Only Supersoul can protect us. You are wise to ask about such statements which when not seen in context are used a tool to control others and reek of sectarianism. You should also learn the context of the quotes I will post today. I may have avoided something that came before this that I didn't agree with.

 

"Even the devil quotes scriptures" they say. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

------

 

 

Similarly, other false devotees think that studying books of the previous äcäryas is unadvisable, like studying dry empiric philosophies. But Srila Jiva Gosvämi, following the previous äcäryas, has inculcated the conclusions of the scriptures in the six theses called the Sat-sandarbhas. False devotees who have very little knowledge of such conclusions fail to achieve pure devotion for want of zeal in accepting the favorable directions for devotional service given by self-realized devotees. Such false devotees are like impersonalists, who also consider devotional service no better than ordinary fruitive actions.

Ädi 2.118 purport extract

 

[raga]

 

then bhakta's say ONLy read iskon approved books,

don't read bhaktivida books etc,

 

 

Since when do Bhaktivinod's books need to be iskcon-approved?

 

Is he disapproved by iskcon? Are the six Gosvamis disapproved by iskcon?

 

Prabhupad's books are the best, but are they better than the books of the earlier acaryas? Did the writings of the earlier acaryas become irrelevant the moment Prabhupad wrote his books? Can we neglect the heritage from which Prabhupad drew the ideas in his books? Or can we perhaps gain a deeper appreciation for what he wrote by learning of the heritage he learned?

 

And yes, everything is in Prabhupad's books and there is nothing else, right? I could list a few dozen topics not covered in his books without even thinking much about it. Are all those teachings of the earlier acaryas not contained in Prabhupad's books irrelevant and not worth a study?

 

Is this what Prabhupad taught you? Where does he draw his legitimacy as a guru from? From the tradition, the previous acaryas?

 

[theist]

Paramahaàsa: Srila Prabhupäda, I remember once I heard a tape where you told us that we should not try to read the books of previous äcäryas.

 

Prabhupäda: Hmm?

 

Amogha: That we should not try to read Bhaktivinoda’s books or earlier books of other, all äcäryas. So I was just wondering...

 

Prabhupäda: I never said that.

 

Amogha: You didn’t say that? Oh.

 

Prabhupäda: How is that?

 

Amogha: I thought you said that we should not read the previous äcäryas’ books.

 

Prabhupäda: No, you should read.

 

Amogha: We should.

 

Prabhupäda: It is misunderstanding.

 

Paramahaàsa: I think maybe he was thinking that there was some things about some of the Gaudiya Matha books.

 

Prabhupäda: Maybe.

 

Paramahaàsa: And sometimes you said that better not to..., better to read your books.

 

Amogha: When the devotees went to India this year, they said that Acyutänanda Swami very..., chastised them that “You should never... If I catch any of you buying Bhaktisiddhänta’s books from Gaudiya Matha then I will take it away,” something like this.

 

Paramahaàsa: Yeah, that was, the reason was because of, he didn’t want the devotees going to Gaudiya Matha. But there’s nothing wrong with the idea of studying the previous äcäryas’ books.

 

Prabhupäda: No. Who said? That is wrong. We are following previous äcäryas. I never said that.

 

Paramahaàsa: All of your commentaries are coming from the previous äcäryas.

 

Prabhupäda: Yes.

 

Jayadharma: But that wouldn’t mean that we should keep all the previous äcäryas’ books and only read them.

 

Prabhupäda: That is already there. You first of all assimilate what you have got. You simply pile up books and do not read—what is the use?

 

Jayadharma: First of all we must read all your books.

 

Prabhupäda: Yes.

 

Paramahaàsa: Practically speaking, Srila Prabhupäda, you are giving us the essence of all the previous äcäryas’ books in your books.

Conv. May 13,1975 Perth

[Guest guest]

citing myself : "the books of srila prabhupada have surely the preminence..."

 

you are misunderstanding, but we are in a friendly discussion, not before a judge, so excuses are not needed.. i have only said that it is not currently possible to learn vaishnavism with books of any bona fide authority but without comments unless one lives traditionally in the school of the spiritual master and studies everyday under his guidance

 

for obvious clarification i say that prabhupada's books are the primary school and the university of spirituality. Having a good praparation on them, one can read also other bona fide books

 

to say that a book is the basis does not necessarily means that it is elementary or... basic

[Guest guest]

of course i believe in the need of a present spiritual master so the prabhupada's comments, even if written not many years ago, often need to be newly "commented" and carefully applied by the pure devotee to suite the new times, new practitioneers and new circumstances

[Gaurasundara]

 

But Srila Jiva Gosvämi, following the previous äcäryas, has inculcated the conclusions of the scriptures in the six theses called the Sat-sandarbhas.

 

 

I have heard that ISKCON is soon going to be printing an edition of the Sat-sandarbhas. Personally I would beware of it, for I have heard that there has been much editing going on. Do you know if this is true?

[raga]

As far as I know, the project has been on ice ever since Satya Narayan left the ranks. Where did you hear this from?

[Gaurasundara]

That's exactly what I was thinking. It was the disagreements on certain translations that gave birth to the whole "origin of the soul" controversy in ISKCON, and since then it has been put on the shelf.

 

I have heard that it may be coming out soon from Bhakti Vikasa Swami. I suppose he is more in the loop than I am.

[theist]

Gaurasundara,

 

I haven't heard anything about it. I have the same concerns over everything. Edited books. This matha and that translating Jaiva Dharma. All the differences, if any, are beyond my ability to detect. And on top of it all there is my mind that distorts everything anyway. Then toss in my lack of other languages or even basic English grammer and we can see I am in a tough spot.

 

I can try to take shelter of this verse though.

 

 

Even a person with no knowledge can immediately acquire all knowledge simply by the benediction of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Therefore I am praying to the Lord for His causless mercy upon me. CC Madhya 1.1

 

 

[Priitaa]

Govindaram prabhu,

 

Haribol. I think it was one of my posts that got you thinking about all this, so I just want to clarify that topic had not crossed my mind. I was posting that quote for different reasons, which I rather not bring up here cuz I don't want to change the subject or get into a debate.

 

Anyway, Prabhupada says many things, so we have to look at the whole picture. My understanding is that as long as we read Prabhupada's books first (or predominately first) and understand them, its ok to read other literature. As for myself reading only ISKCON authorized books, I never bother to see whats on their check list. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[stonehearted]

Has anyone ever wondered why ISKCON hasn't published Jaiva Dharma? They've been working on it for a long time. In fact, Srila Prabhupada's disciple Goursundar was working on it in 1972. More recently, though, they've been editing another translation but the project ran into an obstacle. Any guesses?

[gHari]

It makes you humble. It makes you want to chant. Nothing wrong with that. The glaring obvious conclusion at the end of reading is "There is no other way". It is a good thing.

 

As far as Jaiva-Dharma, I see a big fish swimming from one side of the river to the other. The fish analogy makes no sense unless the fish can swim from side to side; that is, if it doesn't swim around like a real fish, then another simile would have been more appropriate.

[Govindaram]

"Haribol. I think it was one of my posts that got you thinking about all this"

 

No, it was something else, anyways also i got some advice that if you ask your Guru (if u have one) if you can read a certain book or get some advice about it from a trustworthy devotee, but banning somebody from reading a book, will only make them want to read it more, i never see any conversation of His Divine Grace saying DON'T read this book(previous archarya). Also once you reach bhava you can read what you want!! hahaha..so there.

[Priitaa]

 

but banning somebody from reading a book, will only make them want to read it more

 

 

You took the words right out of my mouth. What I didn't put in my last post, but it had crossed my mind, was, "If someone were to tell me a book is on the ISKCON "bad" list, I would KNOW its a good book!" lol Yes, that is the best advertising they can do - ban a book.

 

 

Also once you reach bhava you can read what you want!! hahaha..so there.

 

 

LOL Right.

[Govindaram]

haribol!

 

I would like to say for begginers in KC Iskcon whatever you might call it, its better to get an understanding from Srila Prabhupada books first, then later see from theere.

 

Personally i have not even read entire Bhagavatam, so i don't what i am talking about half of the time LOL, but me have search facility hahaha, anyways chant hare-krishna.

 

Pamho Jai sri krishna!

[Gaurasundara]

 

I have been reading Harinama C, and feel i should not be,

 

 

Out of curiosity, could I ask if this is the edition of Sarvabhavana das Adhikari, or a different one?

[Priitaa]

 

Out of curiosity, could I ask if this is the edition of Sarvabhavana das Adhikari, or a different one?

 

 

I also have a question. I consider the translating of Sanskrit scripture to be very important, should be done well, and by spiritually qualified persons. For this reason, I first would want to know some of the translator's life.

 

Is he a strict (not fanatical) devotee? Did he learn Sanskrit from a personalist or impersonalist, or from where? Does he rely on Prabhupada's word-per-word, etc., translations for his own translations? Please pardon me, as its not about juding him or anyone. Simply, before I am going to accept something on the level of the Absolute, I first need to know these things.

[Haridham]

when i first read the Bagavat gita, it was a translation from someone and the commentary felt so dry. The commentary didnt fit with what krsna was saying either. When I read Prabhupads translation I never wanted to put the book down. I also found out that the first gita I read had a couple of chapters missing.

 

Srila Prabhupad Ki JAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Govindaram]

Yugal Kisore Das provided me with the file:

 

You can read Here

 

Haribol!

[Guest guest]

All texts undergo "editing" before they are published. That's pretty standard.

 

If I say "we edited this text because there were punctuation and grammatical mistakes in the translation," then one could say "it [sat-sandarbhas] has undergone *editing*"

 

However, that is not the same as saying that Jiva Gosvami's words have been edited, now is it?

 

Do you have any actual evidence of the latter, or is this the kind of wild and unsubstantiated rumor you have no problem helping to circulate since it is only ISKCON which is at the receiving end of it?

 

I'm sure if I wrote or even hinted that, "I heard so-and-so babaji has been editing the gosvami's writings," you would immediately stand up indignantly, with righteous spittle flowing from your fanatical mouth, and declare me to be on an anti-babaji crusade, prejudiced, hateful, etc etc. That being the case, it only seems fair to ask you to observe some equality of standards.

 

Well, strike that. At least pretend to be impartial.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

I also have a question. I consider the translating of Sanskrit scripture to be very important, should be done well, and by spiritually qualified persons. For this reason, I first would want to know some of the translator's life.

 

 

I think the obvious qualifications for presenting a Vaishnava scripture are that (1) the presenter should know Sanskrit, (2) the presenter should be educated by a proper guru-parampara, and (3) the presenter should try to present the text according to the ideals and teachings of the parampara from which he came.

 

Note that (3) is somewhat iffy - there is abundant precedent for inaugurating a new sampradaya even though initiated into a different sampradaya. That should be acceptable, so long as one is making it clear that one is taking a different position from that of his predecessors. We don't get bent out of shape because Chaitanya has preached something different from that of Madhva; it is obvious that He did so and that He was not trying to pretend to be Maadhva in outlook.

 

 

Is he a strict (not fanatical) devotee? Did he learn Sanskrit from a personalist or impersonalist, or from where?

 

 

 

I'm not sure what "strict" and "fanatical" mean in this case, and I am even less sure about the qualifications of one who would assume that such adjectives apply. "Fanatical" means different things to different people. I think it is obvious that one should be obedient to the regulative principles of scripture and should live the life of a devotee, in order to present his work as a devotional work.

 

I met one ISKCON disciple of (I think) Jayapataka Swami. She revealed to me in confidence that she had a child out of wedlock by her current boyfriend. She thought it was very "fanatical" that other ISKCON devotees would object to this. I'm not sure I would accept her definition of "fanatical" as practical or objective.

 

 

Does he rely on Prabhupada's word-per-word, etc., translations for his own translations?

 

 

 

The vast majority of Vaishnava works do not rely on Prabhupada's word-per-word translations; that does not disqualify them in any way. People will translate according to the understanding of their respective sampradayas. Prabhupada was no different in this regard.

 

For that matter, even if one does come in Prabhupada's parampara, it isn't necessarily the case that one would want to use Prabhupada's word-for-word meanings. This is obvious to anyone who knows Sanskrit: the same word in Sanskrit can mean different things in different contexts. It would be a mistake to assume that all possible meanings of a given word have been explored by Prabhpuada alone, and that one cannot translate according to other possibilities. Prabhupada himself referred to Amara-kosa as a standard Sanskrit reference.

 

 

Please pardon me, as its not about juding him or anyone. Simply, before I am going to accept something on the level of the Absolute, I first need to know these things.

 

 

 

I recommend against prematurely accepting anything as "Absolute," especially if the purport of this is going to be that one is not going to read in a discriminating fashion. It would be more helpful to be wary of anything you read, and to ask probing questions. Blind acceptance will only lead to blind following, regardless of the apparent justification offered. You can't be convinced of somethings "absolute" authority if you have not studied it first.