Only read Srila Prabhupada Books (iskcon)

[Gaurasundara]

 

Did he learn Sanskrit from a personalist or impersonalist, or from where?

 

 

Dear Priitaaji, if we are talking about Sarvabhavana's edition, then in his acknowledgements he states that he received "guidance" from Narayana Maharaja. Other than that it is an ISKCON-approved book since it passed the Book Committee that they have. I am guessing that this book was published before it became "banned" to take Narayana Maharaja's siksa. Funnily enough, other books by Sarvabhavana are still sold in ISKCON. Did that help you, Priitaaji?

[Gaurasundara]

 

You took the words right out of my mouth. What I didn't put in my last post, but it had crossed my mind, was, "If someone were to tell me a book is on the ISKCON "bad" list, I would KNOW its a good book!" lol Yes, that is the best advertising they can do - ban a book.

 

 

Priitaaji, do you really feel like this?

[Gaurasundara]

 

All texts undergo "editing" before they are published. That's pretty standard... However, that is not the same as saying that Jiva Gosvami's words have been edited, now is it? Do you have any actual evidence of the latter, or is this the kind of wild and unsubstantiated rumor you have no problem helping to circulate since it is only ISKCON which is at the receiving end of it?

 

 

Tamal Krishna Gosvami told the whole story of the "origin of the soul" controversy in his book "A Hare Krishna at Southern Methodist University." He frankly proclaimed that the whole issue arose because of a disagreement of the Sandarbha translations. Basically the Sandarbha argues for the "no-fall" position, whereas this obviously conflicts with ISKCON's "fall" position.

Nice try at questioning my motives, by the way.

[Priitaa]

Gaurasundara prabhu,

 

Thanks for the reply. You gave me a clear cut answer, unlike anonymous "Guest," who tore my post apart to make personal points, many which had nothing to do with my question.

[Priitaa]

 

Priitaaji, do you really feel like this?

 

 

Prabhu, its not so much how I feel, its just the way it usually plays out. More devotees develop an interest in the books that are banned. I've seen it happen over and over.

[Priitaa]

 

I'm not sure what "strict" and "fanatical" mean in this case,

 

 

Therefore you shouldn't be commenting.

 

 

and I am even less sure about the qualifications of one who would assume that such adjectives apply.

 

 

You know nothing of how qualified or unqualified I am, or any devotee here. I suggest you stop judging. My post was directed to those who accept Srila Prabhupada as a pure deovtee, thus his translations as the Absolute Truth. That is who I was asking and they will also be the ones who understand my question. Your reply shows you do not.

[Haridham]

Dont worry about these people, remember they are "hindu's /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Priitaa]

LOL You are right. It is late, I am tired, so my tolerance level is low.

 

Thanks for making me laugh about it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

 

You know nothing of how qualified or unqualified I am, or any devotee here. I suggest you stop judging. My post was directed to those who accept Srila Prabhupada as a pure deovtee, thus his translations as the Absolute Truth. That is who I was asking and they will also be the ones who understand my question. Your reply shows you do not.

 

 

 

Oh boy, here we go again....

 

Never mind I said anything. After all, I'm just a dumb Hindoo. I don't know anything. I'm Offensive. Etc. etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Priitaa]

And again and again, until you learn to stop making offenses. You blaspheme Prabhupada, his books, his movement, his devotees, and his teachings. Yet try to claim you make no offenses. I am not afraid to say you are when you factually are.

[Guest guest]

"The vast majority of Vaishnava works do not rely on Prabhupada's word-per-word translations; that does not disqualify them in any way. People will translate according to the understanding of their respective sampradayas. Prabhupada was no different in this regard."

*********************************************************

Dear friend,

Please give me some examples of Vaishnava works that differ from Prabhupada's teachings. In my opinion, what you are talking about is just an idea that lacks the weight of proof behind it, kindly talk about your truth with some gravity of facts backing that up.

 

-TU

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

Dear friend,

Please give me some examples of Vaishnava works that differ from Prabhupada's teachings.

 

 

 

Check out the Bhagavad-gita commentaries of Madhva and Ramanuja for starters. They differ on many significant points compared to Prabhupada. Some verses of particular interest are 14.27 (translation of the word "brahmanas", 18.66, the entire 11th chapter in particular the last ten slokas, etc. Another place to look is Madhva's and Viraraghavacharya's commentaries on the Bhagavatam, verse 1.3.28 in particular.

 

Not that I find these differences to be a problem. All I was trying to say before I was burned in effigy, was that other Vaishnavas have different commentaries and translations, and they are not obliged to follow Prabhupada's style of translation.

 

This seems like such a simple and obvious point to me, but some people have to see enemies everywhere in order to be happy. So, all glories to them.

 

 

In my opinion, what you are talking about is just an idea that lacks the weight of proof behind it, kindly talk about your truth with some gravity of facts backing that up.

 

 

 

No thanks. I really am not interested in having an intelligent discussion with people whose only interest is in trying to feel better about themselves by attacking me. If you really are interested in the differences, you can consult the appropriate texts mentioned above. If you were only pretending to be interested, then I'm sure you can conjure up some excuse as to why we shouldn't read those other books, all the while claiming that those who do read them don't have any evidence, and that whatever evidence they present from those venerated Vaishnava texts does not count for whatever arbitrary reason you use to justify avoiding such books.

 

In short, ask for evidence only if you really want the evidence. If you want to insist that there are no differences whatsoever between different Vaishnava philosophies, and that all Vaishnavas translate everything the same, and that any apparent differences are just a fiction - go right ahead. Just pardon me if I don't step up to defend you when you come across as a laughing stock in front of those who know better.

 

 

[Guest guest]

from the introduction to

 

Srimad Bhagavatam

 

A.C. Bhaktivedanta

 

 

Many devotees of Lord Caitanya like Srila Vrndavana dasa Thakura, Sri Locana dasa Thakura, Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, Sri Kavikarnapura, Sri Prabodhananda Sarasvati, Sri Rupa Gosvami, Sri Sanatana Gosvami, Sri Raghunatha Bhatta Gosvami, Sri Jiva Gosvami, Sri Gopala Bhatta Gosvami, Sri Raghunatha dasa Gosvami and in this latter age within two hundred years, Sri Visvanatha Cakravarti, Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana, Sri Syamananda Gosvami, Sri Narottama dasa T?hakura, Sri Bhaktivinoda Thakura and at last Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura (our spiritual master) and many other great and renowned scholars and devotees of the Lord have prepared voluminous books and literatures on the life and precepts of the Lord. Such literatures are all based on the sastras like the Vedas, Puranas, Upanisads, Ramayana, Mahabharata and other histories and authentic literatures approved by the recognized acaryas. They are unique in composition and unrivaled in presentation, and they are full of transcendental knowledge. Unfortunately the people of the world are still ignorant of them, but when these literatures, which are mostly in Sanskrit and Bengali, come to light the world and when they are presented before thinking people, then India's glory and the message of love will overflood this morbid world, which is vainly searching after peace and prosperity by various illusory methods not approved by the acaryas in the chain of disciplic succession.

[Guest guest]

any questions ?

 

good.

[Guest guest]

oh but that wasn't all

 

 

The readers of this small description of the life and precepts of Lord Caitanya will profit much to go through the books of Srila Vrndavana dasa Thakura (Sri Caitanya-bhagavata) and Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta). The early life of the Lord is most fascinatingly expressed by the author of Caitanya-bhagavata, and as far as the teachings are concerned, they are more vividly explained in the Caitanya-caritamrta. Now they are available to the English-speaking public in our Teachings of Lord Caitanya.

[Guest guest]

 

great site

 

intro to the bhagavatam

 

 

[Guest guest]

That is a nice site. The Bhaktivedanta Archives are to be congratulated for putting it together. What is especially nice is the availability of diacritical marks.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear friend,

I am sorry you feel that I was attacking you. I only asked you a question, thank you for your post. I will read them and see what these "differences" are.

 

- TU

[Guest guest]

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/timewarp/ramanuja.html

"According to Ramanuja...The cessation of avidya does not depend merely upon an act by which the individual Self recognizes Brahman as the universal Self. The cessation of avidya also depends on the grace which is given to the individual Self by Brahman."

 

Prabhupada: "Arjuna could understand that for a living entity it is not possible to understand the unlimited infinite. If the infinite reveals Himself, then it is possible to understand the nature of the infinite by the grace of the infinite."

Ramanuja says that the brahman is one, yet is different from the jiva at the same time. The same is said by Prabhupada, that Krishna is everyone, yet at the sametime he is also a person. Ramanuja also says that the best way to attain the grace of Paramatma is to be devoted to Him, the same is said by Prabhupada.

 

Just because they use different terminology and a different way to approach the truth does not mean that they are different. In my own simple mind, I think that there are many similarities between Prabhupada and Ramanuja and they both teach the same thing. What they do however, is look at the same reality from slightly different perspective. Therefore, I completely agree with you, but the message of all the Vaishnava sampradayas eventually boil down to one thing : devotion to krishna and service unto him- that which prabhupada clearly explained. By referring to that message, we can also say that other bonafide Vaishnava works depend on the message of Prabhupada's books.

 

"Paramahaàsa: All of your commentaries are coming from the previous äcäryas.

 

Prabhupäda: Yes."

 

Prabhupada has said this himself (thank you theist) that his commentaries are coming from the same message.They are the same and also when Prabhupada's books have the Truth, one can be happy just by reading his books alone, then why should a person like me bother to read other "bonafide Vaishnava works"? The message is simple, do whatever you do for Krishna and love Him.

 

"for obvious clarification I say that prabhupada's books are the primary school and the university of spirituality. Having a good praparation on them, one can read also other bona fide books"

 

There is no need of reading other books, but I agree with you that if one reads prabhupada's books one will also understand the works of other Vaishnavas of the past. However, when one gets the message it is time to stop dwelling in thoughts and start fighting in the battlefield. And I can very strongly say that one can attain this message just by merely reading prabhupada's books. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Take care,

-TU

[yasodanandana]

"There is no need of reading other books, but I agree with you that if one reads prabhupada's books one will also understand the works of other Vaishnavas of the past."

 

being the prabhupada books unavoidable, especially for people who is not born in a vaishnava environment, i think that it is somewhat easy to understand when one reads other books for posing as a great scholar, to gratify his senses, or to badly speculate about our great acharya... or when he does it with genuine interest for his spiritual advancement.

 

So "read only prabhupada", "read only bhagavad gita", "read also narayana maharaja", "buy kali shantarana upanishad or rig veda" are advices to be given carefully on personal basis...... one could be fit only to chant hare krishna and wash the pots.. bas

(when i lived in the iskcon temple, in the 80s, the general advice was to not read back to godhead... "it's for general public, not too advanced")

_________________

"However, when one gets the message it is time to stop dwelling in thoughts and start fighting in the battlefield"

 

-to write, read and study is also a battlefield.. there's an intellectual battlefield, see this forum and see how it is easy to be defeated by people, especially hinduists, who easily put in discussion, with ample citing of the scriptures, things that we surely experience as real everyday of our life but often we cannot sustain if not with the religious faith, not vedic culture

 

and

 

i'd be very happy to see, for example, other books on philosophy from iskcon devotees.. and also, from them, other commentaries and translations, also on books already translated and commented by prabhupada.. especially in the case when they feel that there's the need to edit them..

 

and there's nothing strange.... when one gives a class having read the verse and the comment of prabhupada, he's "recommenting" and "actualizing" it applying the prabhupada's siddhanta to our time, place and circumstance... so let them write(if they are qualified) and make new nice vaishnava books with their commentaries

 

another thought?... for me a krishna conscious man is a member of krishna conscious international society (iskcon)... and , in a sense, any real vaishnava book is a prabhupada's book

[Guest guest]

Dear Yashodanandana,

First of all, I would like to comment on your name, because I just realized how wonderful it is when one writes it, it reminds one of krishna.

 

Secondly, I like your statement

"another thought?... for me a krishna conscious man is a member of krishna conscious international society (iskcon)... and , in a sense, any real vaishnava book is a prabhupada's book "

 

Your statements speak the truth, very nicely said prabhu. it is a fact that one is a Iskcon member if he is krishna conscious individual and a book is prabhupada's book if it contains the message of the lord krishna with in it. Also, I agree with you that to write to read and to study is also a battlefield. Actually, about the defeat in this forum, one can say that defeat only is defeat when one is trying to battle some one or impose one's idea over another or vice versa. But when you are trying to simply discuss about krishna, where is the defeat? In my humble opinion, defeat is only maya. there is no defeat, it is only a perceived notion in the mind of the one who is in illusion (maya).

The only true battle or jihad is with in us. We are fighting the desires that bind us to the material world with the help of krishna and when finally free , we dance with him eternally.

- TU

[Guest guest]

...... i hope to have one day the same your realizations when i hear, pronounce or write my name..

 

the word defeat was only "technical" (also prabhupada uses it speaking of philosophical controversies)... of course i was not speaking of hate or prevarication, but i am happy to have explained it better

[Guest guest]

 

Just because they use different terminology and a different way to approach the truth does not mean that they are different. In my own simple mind, I think that there are many similarities between Prabhupada and Ramanuja and they both teach the same thing. What they do however, is look at the same reality from slightly different perspective. Therefore, I completely agree with you, but the message of all the Vaishnava sampradayas eventually boil down to one thing : devotion to krishna and service unto him- that which prabhupada clearly explained. By referring to that message, we can also say that other bonafide Vaishnava works depend on the message of Prabhupada's books.

 

 

 

Dear Sri TU,

 

I am not suggesting that there are no similarities between other Vaishnavas and Prabhupada. Obviously, there are similarities.

 

I only wished to point out that there are differences. Even on this point I was not planning to make an issue out of it. I only stated this in response to the ill-conceived notion expressed previously, that if one does not follow Prabhupada's word-for-word translation, then it follows that there is something "not bona fide" about his translation.

 

 

Does he rely on Prabhupada's word-per-word, etc., translations for his own translations? Please pardon me, as its not about juding him or anyone. Simply, before I am going to accept something on the level of the Absolute, I first need to know these things.

 

 

 

Since there is much difference between different Vaishnavas on many key verses, it is only to be expected that some words (like "brahman," for example) will be translated in very different ways.

 

Even someone following Prabhupada's parampara is not necessarily obligated to follow his word-for-word translation.

 

For one thing, Sanskrit words can mean widely varying things based on context. For example, the word Atma can mean the jIvAtma or paramAtma based on context.

 

Also, one who is translating the same verses Prabhupada translated may still not translate in exactly the same way. This is because a given verse may be quoted in different contexts to establish different points, and thus the emphasis in each translation will differ slightly. See, for example, the number of ways Prabhupada translated the kRSNa varnam tviSAkRSNam verse from Bhagavatam 11th Canto - sometimes he translates it to indicate the descent of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, while in other contexts he simply translates it to mean that intelligent people perform sankirtana-yagna.

 

Finally, even if translating the exact same text as Prabhupada (i.e. Bhagavad-gita), one is not necessarily obligated to follow exact word-for-word translation of the guru. In Gaudiya Parampara different acharyas have given different commentaries on the same text, rather than building off of the commentaries of their immediate predecessors. Similarly, there are many different Bhagavatam commentaries in Gaudiya Parampara - Jiva Gosvami has one, Sanatana Gosvami has one, Visvanatha has one, etc etc. So often times the same text may be presented in different ways, and it is still perfectly acceptable.

 

What perhaps is not acceptable is to contradict one's guru, at least not unless one is admitting to starting a different sampradaya. But one can translate differently without contradicting one's guru.

 

 

There is no need of reading other books, but I agree with you that if one reads prabhupada's books one will also understand the works of other Vaishnavas of the past.

 

 

I myself did not say this, nor do I necessarily agree with it.

[Guest guest]

"I myself did not say this, nor do I necessarily agree with it. "

 

Dear Guest (kindly pick a signature to make the discussion a little easier to carry out /images/graemlins/smile.gif ),

It is a fact that Prabhupada's overall point revolves on only Godhead. Also, on how to serve Godhead, what is to know is summed up to realize Him through our work, that is all. It is crystal clear like water. Vaishnavism is becoming servants of God, literally. So, one can say that prabhupada's books are enough, also one can say the same thing about Ramanuja's Gitabhasya that reading it is enough... What I am trying to say by my points is that, it is the message that is important, not the books. So, Whether you agree with it or not on the outside, you have no choice but to agree with this statement deep down in your devotee heart :

"There is no need of reading other books, but I agree with you that if one reads prabhupada's books one will also understand the works of other Vaishnavas of the past."

 

However, one would ofcourse see the Truth in the statement by knowing that it is the knowledge that is important, not the book or the author. Prabhupada is respectable because of the knowledge and devotion he has for Krishna, therefore I see no harm in saying "read prabhupada's books they are enough for this lifetime". (One might say the same thing about any other self realized Vaishnava Guru) . Our main goal is He, nothing other than He.

Thank you for reading /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

-TU