OK Did SP say GBC could appoint Guru's?

[Govindaram]

 

Maybe asked million times before.

 

Also what is the flaw?

[yasodanandana]

they are not appointing or electing..

there's someone who choose a devotee as spiritual master, he asks the opinion of GBC assembly, they say "for us he/she is good, he can come in our temples, sleep and eat, giving classes and initiations"... then one who's already a master for someone, is recognized also by GBC assembly as an official IskCon guru

 

the system has nothing wrong, it is a more "official" version of "sadhus"(the spiritual consciousness comes from guru, shastra, sadhus) who give an advice, a suggestion, to one who's searching for a spiritual master

 

imho the system is good and traditional, if one has doubts, these have to be resolved examining if iskcon gbc members are, one by one, real sadhus or not,

 

the system is ..... a "system", the good and bad does not lie in it and speaking of the mechanism, the procedure, and not of the people who are in it, is a total waste of time... in my opinion of course

 

 

[Guest guest]

SP never said that. This of course in itself would be no problem. The problem begins when people, still fighting with their numerous anarthas are introduced as "unmistakable spiritual masters". SP clearyl writes in Nectar of Instructions that we should be very careful to choose an UTTAMA ADHIKARI as our guru. This is what he said. So when people trying to stabilize themselves on the platform of madhyama accept the responsibility of leading others, that is wrong, and history has proven how wrong it is.

 

Next question may arise: how do we decide who is an uttama-adhikari? Gour Govinda Swami gives an answer in his book "The Process of Inquiry". He says that we do not have the eyes to measure gurus. So all we can do is to sincerely pray and cry before Krsna to lead us to an uttama adhikari guru. If we are sincere, we will find that person. If we are not sincere, we will be cheated.

[Guest guest]

Chapter 6 - A Living Sadhu

 

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada always emphasized that he was eternally present in his books, instructions, tapes, and letters. So when you say we should take association of a sadhu can we do that through Srila Prabhupada's books?

 

Present in His Books

 

Gour Govinda Swami: If Prabhupada says he is there, then you try to see him, associate with him and listen from him. Do you see Prabhupada? Is he speaking to you?

 

Devotee: Through his books.

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Through his books, yes. All sadhus speak through their books. Jiva Goswami, Rupa Goswami, Sanatana Goswami, Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati and Srila Prabhupada all say that they speak through books.

 

This is not a new thing. This is our vaisnava procedure. But you should see him.Can you see Bhaktivinode Thakur? Can you see Jiva Goswami ? You may say, "Oh I have read their books, I have their association." That won't help you. You cannot understand what they have said merely by reading their books.Your consciousness is very low, so you cannot understand their words. They are very, very merciful, but you should follow the proper path. If you are intelligent you will understand how they are still here, not only in the form of their books but also they are here. You should see them. Why are you thinking so foolishly? So many books were already there, so why has Srila Prabhupada said this? You are thinking, " We need only to read books. There is no need of association with a sadhu who is physically present. Is there any sadhu No, there is no sadhu at all."

 

Seeing is Believing

 

Your motto is, "Seeing is believing." You cannot see, so you cannot believe. Because you are a conditioned soul your vision is defective. You cannot see a sadhu.

 

Krsna is there, can you see him? No, you cannot, because you are not endowed with proper vision. First develop the proper vision and then you can see Krsna. Then you can see how a sadhu is there. It is not a fact that sadhus are not present. How is everything going on? How does the sun rise, the wind blow, and Indra give rain ? All these things are going on. No sadhu? No Krsna? It's nonsense, foolishness. We are so proud and puffed up. We are indentifying our self as the body, mind and false ego. We think we are very great. So we say "Oh there is no sadhu." We are in the category of identification with the body and mind. We have not come to the beginning of the stage of purity. No!

 

Devotee: So we have to associate with a living sadhu?

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Definitely. There is always one there. But he is not a cheap person. Such a person is very rare. If you can get his mercy then you can see him. Otherwise, by your own effort and perception you cannot see him. No, no, no.

 

You always think that you are drasta, the seer, and that the sadhu is drsta, the one to be seen. Everyone is like this. They think they are the seers. But it is just the reverse. You are to be seen and they are the seer! Think this over very deeply. I think you cannot completely understand what I say. We always think that we are the seer and that they are to be seen, but this is not a fact. It is just the reverse. They are the seers and we are to be seen.

 

Merciful Glance

 

Devotee: How are we seen by the sadhu by our service?

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. The sadhu is the seer. If he showers his mercy upon you, he sees you. If you receive that merciful glance then you are very fortunate. However, you are in the category of bodily consciousness. How can you have it? Guru is the manifestation of the Supersoul, caitya-guru in the heart. He manifests a body and appears. He knows your heart

 

Devotee: I don't quite understand.

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, try to understand. As I told you, just hear patiently. A new bhakta cannot understand it because it is a topic of the highest class. You are in pre-primary class, how can you understand? You are not even in the primary class. How can you understand this topic of the highest class? Just accept the bona fide authorities. That will help you. The teacher says, "Two plus two is four." The primary school student accepts it. If the teacher asks the child, "What is two plus two?" The child will reply, "Two plus two is four.Why is two plus two four? My teacher says." He will answer like this. That means he has accepted authority. This is the only principle in the beginning. How is two plus two four? Why not three or five? That will be explained in a higher mathematics class, not in the beginning. You have to have patience and get a promotion. My guru maharaj says in his purport that the beginning is purity of consciousness. First come to this beginning stage, then gradually other things will come up. You are not in the beginning stage so how will the higher topics come up? This is a very, very subtle and very deep philosophy.

 

Putting full faith in the sadhu you need only submissively hear- sravanam, sravanam, sravanam. In that way you can get the mercy of that sadhu. That will help you. Only one thing is required, nothing else- sravanam, sravanam, sravanam. Just hear. Serve that sadhu, please him, hear submissively, surrender yourself at his lotus feet and submissively ask questions. Out of mercy the sadhu will impart tattva-jnana to you.

 

This is the only process.

 

Unless you get association with a living sadhu, what can you do? Will you put some question to Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada will answer you? This process is a living thing, it is always there, it is always current. It is not that inquiry was done a certain way in the past and now things are done differently. No! it is an eternal process, pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya.

[Guest guest]

Chapter 8

 

Sheep Logic (pp. 101-102)

 

Devotee: What if someone tries to serve his guru in this way and then later on the guru falls down?

 

Gour Govinda Swami: That's a bogus guru, not a bona fide guru.

 

Devotee: In that case one' surrender and service counts for nothing?

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Nothing, zero! They are of no value, because that guru was not bona fide, he was a hypocrite, a follower of Kali, only outwardly posing as a Vaisnava guru.

 

You should be careful before accepting a guru. That's your responsibility. Don't be superfluous. You should be very serious and don't follow gaddalika-srota-nyaya. "Gaddalika" means a flock of sheep. Sheep move in a flock and one is at the head, leading. If that sheep jumps into a ditch the whole flock will jump into the ditch. They never think, "Why should we jump into a ditch?" If the leader jumps, they think, "That is a nice path. We should also go that way." .....

 

Who can give cent per cent Krsna? Only the person who has it can give. If someone has only 25 percent Krsna, how can he give you cent per cent Krsna? He does not have the balance in his account. This is your responsibility. You should find such a person and don't follow this gaddalika-srota-nyaya. "Oh, everyone is accepting so and so as paramahamsa, maha-bhagavata. Everyone says so." All right. Don't think anything. Fall into the ditch.