Radha,Krsna,Sakhis and Manjaris,all one person in various forms ?

[Guest guest]

"I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who resides in His own realm, Goloka, with Radha, who resembles His own spiritual figure and who embodies the ecstatic potency [hladini]. Their companions are Her confidantes, who embody extensions of Her bodily form and who are imbued and permeated with ever-blissful spiritual rasa." B.S. 5.37

 

Caitanya Caritamrita Madya lila Chapter 8 Raya Ramananda samvanda

Raya Ramananda continued

 

'mahabhava-cintamani' radhara svarupa

lalitadi sakhi----tanra kaya-vyuha-rupa

 

 

"The internal form (svarupa) of Srimati Radharani

is the spiritual wish fulfilling gem (cintamani) of the sweetest love (mahabhava),

and the other gopis like Lalita,

are other forms of Her spiritual bodily features (kaya vyuha rupa).

 

 

 

"Srimati Radharani's gopi friends are Her mental activities, which are concentrated on the pastimes of Sri Krsna. She keeps Her hand on the shoulder of a friend, who represents youth.

 

PURPORT

 

Radharani's eight companions (asta-sakhi) are different varieties of pleasure connected with the pastimes of Krsna. Following those pastimes of Sri Krsna are other activities, which are represented by the assistants of the gopis.

 

Srimati Radhika’s transcendental body is brilliant in luster and full of all transcendental fragrances. Lord Krishna’s affection for Her is like a perfumed massage.

 

 

The transcendental position of Sanatana Goswami is glorified in the Gaura-Ganodesha-Dipika of Sri Kavi Karnapura (181):

 

sa rupa-manjari-presiha

purasid rati-manjari

socyate nama-bhedena

lavanga-manjari budhaih

 

 

"Rupa Manjari's closest friend, who was known by the names Rati-Manjari and Lavanga Manjari, appeared in the pastimes of Sri Chaitanya mahaprabhu as Sri Sanatana Goswami, who was considered to be a personal extension of the body of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu."

 

The original spiritual master is Nityananda Prabhu. He is the general representation of guru. In the spiritual world, he is the guru-tattva principle in the four primary mellows of devotion, excluding the conjugal mellow. In madhurya-rasa, Baladeva's representation is Ananga Manjari, the sister of Radharani.Sakhi Bhed (Different kinds of sakhis)

 

There are five types of sakhis: 1) sakhi 2) nitya sakhi 3) pran sakhi 4) priya sakhi and 5) paramprestha sakhi. Amongst them some are sama-sneha and some are visam sneha.

 

Those who are more affectionate towards Krsna are called sakhis. Some of the sakhis are Brinda, Kundalata, Vidya, Dhanistha, Kusumika, Kamada, Atreyi, etc. The nitya sakhis are more affectionate towards Sri Radha. Some of the nitya sakhis are Kasturi, Manojna, Mani-manjari, Sindura, Candanvati, Kaumudi, Madira, etc. The principal amongst the nitya sakhis are called pran sakhis. Some of the pran sakhis are: Tulasi, Kelikandali, Kadambari, Sasimukhi, Candrarekha, Priyambada, Madonmada, Madhumati, Basanti, Kalabhasini, Ratnabali, Malati, Karpurlatika, etc.

 

All of them are almost equal in beauty with the Queen of Brindaban, Sri Radhika. Malati, Candralatika, Guncura, Barangada, Madhavi, Candrika, Prem-manjari, Tanumadhyama, Kandarpasundari, etc. are amongst the tens of millions of beautiful Braja priya sakhis. The chief amongst them are the param prestha sakhis. Even though Lalita, Visakha, Citra, Campaklata, Rangadevi, Sudevi, Tungavidya and Indurekha are equally affectionate towards Radha and Govinda, still they are prejudiced towards Sri Radha.

 

In the northern part of Sri Lalita Sakhi’s kunja lies Rupollasa Kunja, where the very beautiful and graceful Sri Rupa Manjari resides. She is the foremost among the gopis known as priya-narma-sakhis. Her complexion is the color of gorocana (a bright yellow pigment secreted from a cow’s kidney), and she delights in wearing a dress the color of peacock feathers. Her age is 13 years 6 months. The panditas call her Rangana-malika. In age, she is one day younger than Lavanga Manjari. In gaura-lila she appears as Srila Rupa Gosvami. (SGGSP)

 

Caitanya-caritamrta [Adi lild 4.95-98]:'Lord Krsna enchants the world, but Sri Radha enchants even Him. Tberefore She is the supreme goddess of all. Sri Rddha is the full power, and Lord Krsna is the possessor of full power. The two are not different, as evidenced by the revealed scriptures. They are indeed the same, just as musk and its scent are inseparable, or as fire and its heat are nondifferent. Thus, Radha and Krsna are one, although they have taken two forms to enjoy a relationship.",

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TEXT 73

krsnere karaya yaiche rasa asvadana

kridara sahaya yaiche, suna vivarana

 

TRANSLATION

Now please listen to how Lord Krsna's consorts help Him taste rasa and how they help in His pastimes.

 

TEXT 74-75

krsna-kanta-gana dekhi tri-vidha prakara

eka laksmi-gana, pure mahisi-gana ara

vrajangana-rupa, ara kanta-gana-sara

sri-radhika haite kanta-ganera vistara

 

TRANSLATION

The beloved consorts of Lord Krsna are of three kinds: the goddesses of fortune, the queens, and the milkmaids of Vraja, who are the foremost of all. These consorts all proceed from Radhika.

 

TEXT 76

avatari krsna yaiche kare a vatara

amsini radha haite tina ganera vistara

 

TRANSLATION

Just as the fountainhead, Lord Krsna, is the cause of all incarnations, so Sri Radha is the cause of all these consorts.

 

TEXT 77

vaibhava-gana yena tanra anga-vibhti

bimba-pratibimba-rupa mahisira tati

 

TRANSLATION

The goddesses of fortune are partial manifestations of Srimati Radhika, and the queens are reflections of Her image.

 

TEXT 78

laksmi-gana tanra vaibhava-vilasamsa-rupa

mahisi-gana vaibhava-prakasa-svarupa

 

TRANSLATION

The goddesses of fortune are Her plenary portions, and they display the forms of vaibhava-vilasa. The queens are of the nature of Her vaibhava-prakasa.

 

TEXT 79

akara svabhava-bh ede vraia-devi-gana

kaya-vyuha-rupa tanra rasera karana

 

TRANSLATION

The Vraja-devis have diverse bodily features. They are Her expansions and are the instruments for expanding rasa.

 

TEXT 80

bahu kanta vina nahe rasera ullasa

Iilara sahaya lagi' bahuta prakasa

 

TRANSLATION

Without many consorts, there is not such exultation in rasa. Therefore there are many manifestations of Srimati Radharani to assist in the Lord's pastimes.

 

TEXT 81

tara madhye vraie nana bhava-rasa-bhede

krsnake karaya rasadika-lilasvade

 

TRANSLATION

Among them are various groups of consorts in Vraja who have varieties of sentiments and mellows. They help Lord Krsna taste all the sweetness of the rasa dance and other pastimes.

 

PURPORT

As already explained, Krsna and Radha are one in two. They are identical. Krsna expands Himself in multi-incarnations and plenary portions like the purusas. Similarly, Srimati Radharani expands Herself in multi-forms as the goddesses of fortune, the queens and the damsels of Vraja. Such expansions from Srimati Radharani are all Her plenary portions. All these womanly forms of Krsna are expansions corresponding to His plenary expansions of Visnu forms. These expansions have been compared to reflected forms of the original form. There is no difference between the original and reflected forms. The female reflections of Krsna's pleasure potency are as good as Krsna Himself.

 

The plenary expansions of Krsna's personality are called vaibhava-vilasa and vaibhava-prakasa, and Radha's expansions are similarly described. The goddesses of fortune are vaibhava-vilasa, and the queens are vaibhava-prakasa of Radharani. The personal associates of Radharani, the damsels of Vraja, are direct expansions of Her body. As expansions of Her personai form and transcendental disposition, they are agents of different reciprocations of love in the pastimes of Lord Krsna, under the supreme direction of Srimati Radharani. In the transcendental realm, enjoyment is fully relished in variety. The exuberance of transcendental mellow is increased by the association of a large number of personalities similar to Radharani, who are also known asgopis or sakhis. The variety of innumerable mistresses is a source of relish for Sri Krsna, and therefore these expansions from Srimati Radharani are necessary for enhancing the pleasure potency of Sri Krsna. Their transcendental exchanges of love are the superexcellent affairs of the pastimes in Vrndavana. By these expansions of Srimati Radharani s personal body, She helps Lord Krsna taste the rasa dance and similar other activities. Srimati Radharani, being the central petal of the rasa- lila flower, is also known by the names found in the following verses.

 

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[Guest guest]

 

The cit-potency of God is boundless, so is His maya-potency also enormous; between them are the innumerable minute jivas. The Jivas emanate from the tatastha sakti (border potency) of Sri Krsna; so is the nature of tatastha (border potency) of Sri Krsna. (Jaiva Dharma)

 

 

The semblance or dim reflection of the internal Cit-potency is the jiva-sakti (potency) or Tatastha-sakti stationed in between cit-jagat and a-cit-jagat or mayic-jagat whereas the shadow or perverted reflection of that internal cit potency is the maya-sakti or external a-cit potency. All the jivas emanate from the tatastha-sakti of God and accordingly the mundane worlds emanate from the maya-sakti of God. (Sri Srimad Bhagavat-arka Marichimala, chap. 1, Introd., By Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura)

 

" the cit-potency is Krsna's plenary potency; whatever she produces is all eternally accomplished; the jiva is not so eternally accomplished; when he becomes accomplished by practices (sadhana-siddha), he enjoys bliss like those eternally accomplished entities. The four kinds of confidantes of Sri Radha (to be described hereafter) are eternally accomplished; their bodies are about the same, with slight variations, with that of Sri Radhika who is essentially the cit-sakti. The jivas have grown out of the jiva-sakti of Sri Krsna. Cit-sakti is Sri Krsna's full (plenary) sakti, whereas the jiva-sakti is the incomplete sakti. From the plenary potency are produced complete entities, but from the incomplete potency have grown the jivas as atomic cit. Krsna manifests entities of different types in accordance with the kind of the sakti He applies. When established in His essential cit-sakti He reveals His essential Nature as Sri Krsna Himself on the one hand and on the other as Sri Narayana, the Lord of Vaikuntha. "

 

Mahavisnu, the Incarnation of Sankarsana, establishing Himself in the heart of jiva-sakti as Paramatma, creates the jiva-souls of tatastha-sakti. These jivas are susceptible to the influence of maya. Innumerable jivas, overcome fastened by maya, are attached to the three gunas. (sattva, rajah, tamah) of maya. As such, the conclusion is that it is the jiva-sakti that begets the jivas, and not the cit-sakti. (Jaiva-Dharma)

 

 

cit-sakti is the complete potency of Krishna. Whatever it manifests are all nitya- siddha objects. The jiva is not nitya-siddha; he becomes sadhana-siddha through sadhana and enjoys bliss like the nitya-siddha. The four types of sakhis of Sri Radha are nitya-siddhas; they are kaya-vyuha manifestations of Sri Radha, who is the personification of the cit-sakti .

 

All the jivas have appeared from the jiva-sakti of Lord Sri Krishna. Just as cit-sakti is Krishna's complete potency, similarly the jiva-sakti is His incomplete potency. All complete objects have appeared from the complete potency, similarly from the incomplete potency come the innumerable atomic jivas. Lord Krishna, presiding over each of His potencies, manifests His various expansions correspondingly. Presiding over the cit potency, He manifests His Krishna form and that of Lord Narayana, the Lord of Vaikuntha. Presiding over His jiva-sakti, He manifests His Vilasa form of Baladeva in Vraja. Becoming situated in His maya-sakti, He manifests the free Vishnu forms - Karanodakashayi, Ksirodakasayi, and Garbhodakasayi.

(jaiva dharma bhaktivinoda thakura)

[Guest guest]

from an article in VNN

 

Question 8:

 

Does jiva change its origin from jiva-sakti to cit-sakti when it attains Svarupa-siddhi?

 

Answer by Srila Bhakti Bibudha Bodhayan Maharaj: Yes

(excluding some exceptional cases particularly decided by Krishna for some reasons or just according to His sweet will).

 

 

????

 

 

huh ? how can anything change where it came from ?

 

The attempt to change the meaning to create an outcome

of siddhanta that you want is called the cheating process.

 

The jiva cannot change it's origin or nature,

the cit sakti is by nature eternaly situated as the full

potency of Sri Krsna in Sri Radha,the Gopis and the

the eternal Dhama etc,Cit sakti is the full

spiritual potency,and is non different then

Radha Krsna.

 

The nature of the jiva is not to ever be of the same nature

or origin of cit sakti,that is impossible,it is exactly

like saying "when the jiva attains swarupa siddhi,

or the perfected identity,he loses his nature as a jiva

and becomes God".

 

This is what Prabhupada meant when he said the

last snare of maya is trying to become like god,

really it is like saying when we are perfected we become

non different the God.

[Guest guest]

Please see Srila Prabhupada's purport, the last paragraph of his Bhagavada-gita, 1972 edition.

[Guest guest]

Dear ........

 

Whether you become cit sakti or remain jiva sakti, do you see any resulting difference in the objective of becoming a servant?

[Guest guest]

i assume you mean this

 

 

"Although superficially the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the living entity, material nature and time appear to be different, nothing is different from the Supreme. But the Supreme is always different from everything. Lord Caitanya's philosophy is that of "inconceivably one and different." This system of philosophy constitutes perfect knowledge of the Absolute Truth."

 

I dont think this purport has anything to do with

the subject of my previous posts,

My point was this (from above)

 

"PURPORT

As already explained, Krsna and Radha are one in two. They are identical. Krsna expands Himself in multi-incarnations and plenary portions like the purusas. Similarly, Srimati Radharani expands Herself in multi-forms as the goddesses of fortune, the queens and the damsels of Vraja. Such expansions from Srimati Radharani are all Her plenary portions. All these womanly forms of Krsna are expansions corresponding to His plenary expansions of Visnu forms. These expansions have been compared to reflected forms of the original form. There is no difference between the original and reflected forms. The female reflections of Krsna's pleasure potency are as good as Krsna Himself."

 

 

The many quotes are meant to show the position of the

various consorts of Sri Krnsa or Vishnu or even Shiva,

they are all one and the same as Sri Krsna,not one and different like the jiva and Godhead,the jiva is tatastha-sakti,comprised of a portion of Krsna's potency,what Bhaktivinoda call a dim refelection or semblance of cit sakti,

 

Cit sakti is Krsna's spiritual potency,the portion of Krsna's energy which is engaged in spiritual or eternal activities,the jiva is a semblance of that,we have

a reflected type of being,we are able to enjoy in the same

way as Radha Krsna and the other expansions because

we are of the same quality,but we are not the same

as them as far as quantity or ability,they(cit-saktis)

are all non different in essence,all are the full

potency and possessor of the full potency,as Prabhupada

mentioned above there is no difference between the

two.

 

In the Brahma Samhita, Goloka is described as the abode

where Radha and Her bodily extensions,the sakhis or gopis,

eternally reside.

 

Also in the Caitanya Caritamrta the same is described,

it says

 

 

"The Vraja-devis have diverse bodily features. They are Her expansions and are the instruments for expanding rasa."

 

"Srimati Radharani's gopi friends are Her mental activities"

 

 

Of course there is also the other realm of Krsna lila,

pastimes when performed in the material world

are different then Goloka,which is the eternal

abode.

 

 

from jaiva dharma

 

"Gosvami: The Lord's pastimes in Vraja are eternal in two ways. Travelling in a great circle through the numberless material universes, the Lord manifests all His pastimes, one after another. In this way the Lord's pastimes are manifested eternally. Also, the Lord's pastimes always exist in the spiritual eternal present (nitya-vartamana), even when they may be invisible to material eyes (aprakata).

 

 

 

Gosvami: Yes, it does. Goloka has the power to manifest itself anywhere. In every material universe the abode of the Lord's pastimes is manifested. The world of Goloka also manifests itself in the heart of every devotee of the Lord. Why does the land of Mathura (Mathura-mandala) continue to exist in the material world, even though the Lord no longer manifests (prakata) His pastimes there?

 

In Gokula,or the earthly manifestation there can be jivas

who temporarily enjoy life as Krsna's girlfriends;

 

from jaiva dharma

 

Vijaya-kumara: What is the nature of the vipaksa (rival) gopis?

 

 

Gosvami: Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami describes them. Please hear this description (Vraja-vilasa-stava, text 41):

 

 

"In order to increase the splendid and nectarean jealous love of Srimati Radharani, who sometimes becomes proud of Her own good fortune, Lord Krishna briefly enjoys pastimes with other gopis, who blossom with many amorous desires. Let us offer our respectful obeisances to these gopis, who must have performed many great pious activities in their previous births in order to play this role in the Lord's pastimes."

 

 

So in fact although the eternal lila unmanifest in the

mundane world(Goloka) is similar to Gokula(earthly lila),

one difference is that in Goloka the Sakhis are all

Cit-Sakti,personal expansions of Radha;

 

Caitanya Caritamrta

 

"Srimati Radharani's gopi friends are Her mental activities"

 

Jiva Goswami describes the qualifications for those

jivas to be Krsna's girlfriends on Earth(gokula);

 

"The supremely excellent nature of the pastimes in Gokula in the association of the beautiful maidens of Vraja, such as the rasa-lila, is confirmed: “One who faithfully hears or describes the loving sports of Sri Krishna and the young maidens of Vraja will quickly drive away the heart-disease of lust, become sober, and attain supramundane devotion of the Lord.”

 

[bhP 10.33.39]

 

The word “ca” means “others” and “atha” means “or”. Thus “hearing” or “describing”. One meditates etc. on the Lord’s features. “Param” means “there is no such thing anywhere superior to these pastimes”. One very quickly gives up the heart-disease of lust and so on. Here the superiority is established in general. The most perfect of all is the worship of the sports ornamented with His dearmost Sri Radha. This is self-evident. However, these secret sports are not to be worshiped by those who experience male transformations in their senses, or by those who are in the moods of father, son and servant, for it would be contrary to their moods.<font color="FF3399"> Confidentiality is understood according to the partial touching or complete touching of limbs. </font color>

 

that last line is important to understand,

Confidentiality is understood

means that the relationship you can have with Krsna

depends on your level of confidentiality or intimacy

according to the partial or non conjugal rasa,

or complete touching which refers to conjugal

love.

 

He is saying the qualification for being in rasa with

Krsna is qualified according to the partial touching

or complete touching, a person who has male transformations

would be unqualified to be a sakhi in gokula because

he can engage in only partial touching with Krsna,

 

Only those who can engage in full touching,have no male

transformations can worship in conjugal love,

he is stating the obvious,only girls can actually

be in the conjugal rasa in Gokula with Krsna.

 

from jaiva dharma

 

When one attains vastu-siddhi, in what way will he see Lord Krishna's name, form, qualities, pastimes and abode?

 

When I myself attain vastu-siddhi, I will be able to see and tell. When you attain sampatti-siddhi you will certainly be able to understand. You will understand without any struggle. And why not? You will see it all before your eyes. You will not need to ask questions. Even what the soul sees at the stage of svarupa-siddhi or bhavapana-dasa an ordinary person cannot understand. And why not? Even if he hears a person in bhavapana-dasa describe what he sees, an ordinary person will not understand the description. The nature of a soul situated in svarupa-siddhi is described by Srila Rupa Gosvami in these words (Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.3.29 and 1.4.12):

"If a person is completely detached from material enjoyment and has developed pure ecstatic devotion, even if he is sometimes accidentally found not living up to the standard of devotional service, one should not be envious of him."*

 

"Only the most fortunate persons can achieve such success in life. Those who are simply academic students of the Vedic scriptures cannot appreciate how such a development takes place."*

 

Vijaya-kumara: If this is so, then why do the Brahma-samhita and other scriptures try to describe the world of Goloka?

 

Gosvami: When by the Lord's mercy they attain the stage of svarupa-siddhi, Brahma and the demigods speak many prayers to describe what they have seen. However, ordinary persons who are less spiritually advanced cannot understand these prayers very well. Still, there is no need for the devotees to understand all these points. By Lord Krishna's mercy His prakata pastimes are manifested, and you can worship Him. By doing that you will attain all perfection.

 

Within a short time you will attain great spiritual faith, and then the spiritual world of Goloka will be manifested before you. Gokula is the same as Goloka. And why not? Gokula and Goloka are not different places. That spiritual realm is not seen by the eyes of materialists. Materialists do not attain the stage of svarupa-siddhi. Only persons who are qualified can see these spiritual truths. Please Krishna by engaging in His devotional service.

 

Follow Krishna's commands. By following Krishna's commands, you will gradually attain His mercy. Then your vision will be pure and perfect.