Guest guest Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 the main problem that women face now is the lack of respect they get from men! that is the problem!! and to be quite frank, the only thing that men have their minds on in SEX and that is it!!!! by looking at the culture that exists today, everything is geared toward sexual expereinces. a man is not looking for a girl that will bear him a child, he is looking for a one night stand!!!!if a man respected a woman, he would not desire sex for a woman and degrade her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armisael108 Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 it is a specific symptom of irresponsability on both sides. We should not forget that most women want to show themselves, and this is irresponsible of them. Both sexes are to blame for this problem because they identify too much with this perishable body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 the main problem BOTH women and men have is that they think they are this body... look for a partner that sees you as a spirit soul trapped in a female human body. all others are just like animals you describe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priitaa Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 And men like to look. I have heard for years how a woman in a saree or long dress "likes" to show herself, and that is not the case. Tho I dont know what you meant here. Maybe you are speaking of nondevotee women in mini skirts. Since this is a devotee forum , I assumed the original poster is a devotee and dresses chaste. Once that is taken care of, any lust of the man is his responsiblity. Its not that woman should be expected to put a bag over her head so he won't have to admit he has a problem or employ his own self control. Pardon my reply, but I have seen too many men blame their lust or falldowns on good women, when it was really their own lack of sense cotrol, which starts in the mind and with various philosophies to support it. I agree with Kulapavana, the problem is both are thikning they are their bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 the idea that women in Vedic culture "dressed in burkhas" to be "chaste looking" is obviously false. Aryan women dressed in a very nice way not to hide their beauty, but to enhance it. Just read Krishna Book. And yes, men nowadays too often blame others for their problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armisael108 Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Yes men like to look, men in general are the agressors and women the victims, that is natural. Even Prabhupada wrote it somewhere... I can't remember exactly where in the Bhagavatam. read my post better you will see that I simply neutralized the initial post, putting a -1 to a 1 then adding the gender neutral agent: "Both sexes are to blame for this problem because they identify too much with this perishable body." Or did you forget this sentence already since I seemed to have blamed women. I don't really care, because even men like to show off. Men also like to comb their hair, put nice perfume, dress with spiffy clothes. This mating ritual of the sexes is just inevitable when men and women reach their puberty. We see it in all animals, and humans are animals too. Humans have something more though... a better understanding of spirituality, although most humans will stay at the level of animal society of eating, sleeping, mating and defending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armisael108 Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 anyways, I want to apologize if my last post seemed offensive or a directed attack. It wasn't meant to be. I'll share with you a little something that happened with a devotee female friend of mine. We were at a Ratha-yatra's book distributing counter and she pointed me a group of girls. All dressed in saris. I said yeah what? She said look at how they are showing off. huh? I replied. Look at how they are acting, they have so much make-up, jewels and (stuff I don't remember). I said: "Yes but you look much better, you don't want to show off with artificial stuff. You show off the real stuff, your knowledge of Krishna." Then some people came at the kiosk, the conversation ended there. Hare Krishna, your servant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Bhagavad Gita: "Everyone is forced to act helplessly according to the qualities he has acquired from the modes of material nature; therefore no one can refrain from doing something, not even for a moment." BG 3.5 There is a tendency to 'show off' or to 'look at' in both women and men. They are all helpless and are supposed to act that way due to the body that was chosen for them to dwell in. They cannot refrain from it, so there is no freedom from it. Krishna knows that it is not possible for a spirit soul to just renounce worldly influence. Hence he says, "One who restrains the senses of action but whose mind dwells on sense objects certainly deludes himself and is called a pretender." "On the other hand, if a sincere person tries to control the active senses by the mind and begins karma-yoga [in Kṛṣṇa consciousness] without attachment, he is by far superior." In order for one to get away from bondage, things need to be done in an appropriate situation as a service to God. This can be translated as something like this (at a very mundane level): If you are going to show off, show off to your husband(thinking it is a service to God). If you are going to look at some one, look at your wife (again service to God). Then gradually, you will see that there is no wonderful, beautiful thing in that tendency and will be free from that bondage as well because He will free you. Anyway, you cannot blame men, may be some can control themselves but others cannot. In the same way, you cannot blame women, some are in self control but others are not. The biggest problem with us is that we do not understand each other. We take roles and defend a certain group, but do not truly realize that there is no defense required. It is only in the mind that the true evil lies. No one is demonic, the true demons are only the notions that are uncomfortable and come between devotee and God. Also, I see alot of how women suffer etc. but that is in the past, past needs to be forgotten and present needs to be focused to build a bright future of the spirit with the Supreme. ---- The above statements are only thoughts, if I have offended any one in any way, because I have gotten my own understanding through the study of Bhagavad Gita, I sincerely apologize. Thank you for reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 let me day for myself, that i hardly can be accused of showing my body off. i neverwear make up and cover my body properly in public and still i can sense the stray eyes of men. i am young almost 25, unmarried. to be honest, i donot like the attention. i am a simple girl that enjoys simple things. I grew up in the states. i know my peer group enjoys going out and going to parties. my sister goes to many parties. im not saying going to parties is bad, but i just donot enjoy going to them. at parties people go there to get drunk and "bump and grind with others" sorry but that is not my idea of fun. let me set the record straight. i have been to about four parties and i tried real hard to have fun - but i could not. i just dont go. i dont like the taste of liquor so i donot drink. i rarely wear makeup even when i go somewhere special i dont wear makeup. sometime i may wear make up, but, i do it for myself, not to attrract men. i makes me feel preety. and then yes, after awhile, i take it off. and i dont go anywhere. i wear it in my house when i am alone. when i went to school, i majored in engineering. in the engineering field, it is true that there is a higher ratio of men. so, most of my "friends" were unfortunely men. and when we would decide to study at the libary in the group section all the guys just stare and check out the girls as they walk by. is this appropiate???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armisael108 Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 No according to Srila Prabhupada. He said something in the likes: "Yes we can look at women, but we cannot look at them lustfully." (I presume it goes for the opposite sex also) I'm sorry if my initial response seemed to accuse you, but in the same way I felt unjustfully accused when you said that men only want sex. If only you knew how much I had to go through before meeting the Krishna conscious devotees, you would understand why I really felt unjustfully accused of only wanting sex with women. In the present day society it seems so weird for a guy not to want a gf in highschool. I'm homosexual apparently... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 The sarees that ISKCON women wear is a see through transparent stuff. The reason given is austerity. Then for austerity's sake they can just run around naked. Proper saree is that which cannot be seen through even in one layer. And there is a proper way to wear it. It it not meant to be worn as a skin tight wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priitaa Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 The sarees that ISKCON women wear is a see through transparent stuff. The reason given is austerity. Then for austerity's sake they can just run around naked. Proper saree is that which cannot be seen through even in one layer. And there is a proper way to wear it. It it not meant to be worn as a skin tight wear. Good grief, where do you get that from? You saw one or two iskcon women dressd like that and you assume we all do? Most iskcon women I have seen are exceptionally chaste wearing proper (not thin, not tight) sarees, put it on correctly, no make-up and keep their eyes to themselves. And I lived in a brahmacarini ashrama, so I saw plenty of iskcon woman and how they dress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haridham Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Yes we make our own scriptures, we make our own rules, we make our guru's, we make our own trade mark clothing. Yes, the iskcon see through sari, on sale GImme a break. I have seen more indian women who dont wear sari's at the temple and wear tight outfits, jeans and shirts with bellies showing. Then they have the guts to accuse our women of trying to be indian. The last thing we want to be is indian, we want to be spiritual, sari is spiritual clothing not indian clothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 if a slightly transparent saree can light your lust, you are in big troubles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktachris Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Haridam says...."Yes we make our own sciptures, we make our own rules, we make our gurus, we make our own trade mark clothes." /images/graemlins/grin.gifNow that WAS funny, /images/graemlins/grin.gifLOL /images/graemlins/grin.gif kind of funny! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif Very good jab, now point the way to the see through saris! /images/graemlins/smile.gif No!No dont i am agitated enough already. /images/graemlins/blush.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 There is nothing wrong with looking or showing, we are all neophytes (most of us with a few exceptions). First we have to be true to ourself, then know for ourselves that lust is another path to darkness. Then and only then will we see the light that is krishna. To know the light , you must see the dark young padawan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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