Marriage

[bhavini]

Do any of you feel like not getting married at all due to the fact that spiritual development has made you desireless?

[Govindaram]

Hare Krishna

 

I am sure it depends on the particular person:

 

For me it seems just like a big hassle, I don't really need it, for others it is a bonus to their spiritual devolepment, and don't forget about Mr Sexual Desire, it rears its ugly head now & again, I am sure many people get married because of 'this', 2 mins of pleasure and a big ol' hassle, go back to point No.1, anyways i'd love to see what other people say..haribol!!

[Guest guest]

It depends, when you see that spiritual fulfillment is all you need and you do not hanker for a relationship, then you don't need it. In some people, marriage is something they cannot avoid, but it does not matter if one is married or not, it is only temporary and limited to this lifetime.

 

-M.K.

[anadi]

akamah sarva-kamo va

moksa-kama udara-dhih

tivrena bhakti-yogena

yajeta purusam param

 

" 'One who is actually intelligent,

although he may be free from material desires,

desiring all kinds of material facilities,

or desiring liberation,

should seriously engage in bhakti-yoga

for the satisfaction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

satyam disaty arthitam arthito nrnam

naivarthado yat punar arthita yatah

svayam vidhatte bhajatam anicchatam

iccha-pidhanam nija-pada-pallavam

 

" 'Whenever Krsna is requested to fulfill one's desire, He undoubtedly does so, but He does not award anything which, after being enjoyed, will cause someone to petition Him again and again to fulfill further desires. When one has other desires but engages in the Lord's service, Krsna forcibly gives one shelter at His lotus feet, where one will forget all other desires.

 

 

Maybe it is not quite appropriate to ask such an intimate question to anyone in a forum, except one is

in a special situation and is looking from advice.

 

Reminder

 

dadAti pratigRhNAti

guhyam AkhyAti pRcchati

bhuNkte bhojayate caiva

SaD-vidhaM prIti-lakSanam

 

Offering pure devotees items in accordance with their requirements,

accepting prasAdA or remnant items given by pure devotees,

revealing to devotees one;s confidential realisations concerning bhajana,

inquiring from them about their confidential realisations ,

eating with great love the prasAda remnants given by devotees

and lovingly feeding them prasAda

these are the six symptoms of loving association with devotees.

 

[bhavini]

"Maybe it is not quite appropriate to ask such an intimate question to anyone in a forum, except one is

in a special situation and is looking from advice"

 

Sorry I didn't mean to ask such an intimate question. It was more about knowing whether I'm a weirdo for feeling the way I do.

[yasodanandana]

"Do any of you feel like not getting married at all due to the fact that spiritual development has made you desireless? "

 

•••my marriage is on of the biggest advancements in krsna consciousness i have done in my life.

 

I know personally only ten of fifteen people in this world that i am quite sure that they have left sexual desire, for the rest of us i think that marriage is necessary

 

Also prabhupada had a wife

 

first brahmacharya.. advance.. then grihasta

[Guest guest]

If you think that marriage is unnecessary you are not a wierdo, but try to go with the flow in your life, your ideas may and most certainly will change in the future.

 

[Guest guest]

picking a husband/wife is not an easy thing (even in Indian society). when picking someone you will spend the rest of the life, spirtuality is something that is a is a big issue. so when picking a husband/wife, it is crucial to marry someone that has the same level of spirtuality. if you do that then, the desire to have sex will not be there for both sides. and, there will not be anyone who will feel neglected.

[Guest guest]

" But in Kali-yuga it will be difficult to maintain a simple family of oneself, one's wife, and a few children. When I was living in New York, among the people coming to our classes was an old lady who had a grown son. I asked her, "Why doesn't your son get married?" She replied, "Yes, he can marry when he can maintain a family." I did not know that maintaining a family was such a difficult job here. But this is described in the BhÇgavatam: if one can maintain a family, he will be considered a very glorious man, and if a girl has a husband she will be considered very fortunate."

[Haridham]

well before I got married I looked at the family life of my family and many others and thought I would never get married. Ofcourse now that I am married and going through my issues I wish I wasnt married and such but now I have a duty towards my wife and being married and having someone to share your krsna consciousness is a great thing.

 

Marriage is the biggest thing in either advancing in spiritual life or failing in it. Before you should get married you should consider the following verse from the Srimad Bhagavatam

 

5.5.18

 

gurur na sa syat sva-jano na sa syat

 

pita na sa syaj janani na sa syat

 

daivam na tat syan na patis ca sa syan

 

na mocayed yah samupeta-mrtyum

 

 

"One who cannot deliver his dependents from the path of repeated birth and death should never become a spiritual master, a father, a husband, a mother or a worshipable demigod"

 

I have learned from my family members however(of what not to do ocourse) and I know I will treat my wife much differently and I will listen to my children too. I mean we never know who the people are that we have a relationship with.

 

But I think its best to get married then to let your senses all go crazy, by getting married you can learn to control your senses and live krsna consciously with your loved ones.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

Srimad Bhagavatam 10.60.45

 

tvak-śmaśru-roma-nakha-keśa-pinaddham antar

māṃsāsthi-rakta-kṛmi-viṭ-kapha-pitta-vātam

jīvac-chavaṃ bhajati kānta-matir vimūḍhā

yā te padābja-makarandam ajighratī strī

 

SYNONYMS

 

tvak — with skin; śmaśru — whiskers; roma — bodily hair; nakha — nails; keśa — and hair on the head; pinaddham — covered; antaḥ — inside; māṃsa — flesh; asthi — bones; rakta — blood; kṛmi — worms; viṭ — stool; kapha — mucus; pitta — bile; vātam — and air; jīvat — living; śavam — a corpse; bhajati — worships; kānta — as husband or lover; matiḥ — whose idea; vimūḍhā — totally bewildered; yā — who; te — Your; pada-abja — of the lotus feet; makarandam — the honey; ajighratī — not smelling; strī — woman.

 

TRANSLATION

 

A woman who fails to relish the fragrance of the honey of Your lotus feet becomes totally befooled, and thus she accepts as her husband or lover a living corpse covered with skin, whiskers, nails, head-hair and body-hair and filled with flesh, bones, blood, parasites, feces, mucus, bile and air.

 

 

[bhavini]

"But I think its best to get married then to let your senses all go crazy, by getting married you can learn to control your senses and live krsna consciously with your loved ones."

 

What are you trying to say? Are you saying I'm scared of commitment to one person.

I'm just afraid that if I do get married, that person may stop me from keeping to the 4 regulations so maybe it might be better for me to stay single. Some of you are really lucky to be able to marry devotees who you can share krishna conciousness with. But where I live I think that's an impossibility (trust me I know), so I've kinda accepted it. And besides I really don't feel like getting married anyway.

[Guest guest]

if you are in love with someone, there's no question of think of renunciation..

 

one who's authentically renunciated do not think and ask to people "have i to marry .. or not?"

 

so, if you're asking, you are into the sex/love business (like the 99.99999999999% of the people in this world)... and there's nothing bad

 

for the 4 principles, you have to "grow" as a person, persons at a certain age have the sex/love urge and, if they are moral, then marry.. this is the most important principle to respect.

 

better to have normal and natural sex with a husband sometimes and to be calm and chant hare krishna than to have the mind agitated by the illusion to be a sannyasi at early age and by the frustration of an unnecessary austeriy

 

my point is: if you're asking about marriage, you have to marry, a renunciated does not even think of it

 

so, please, free your mind of all this pseudodevotional stuff and ONLY ask yourself if you love this guy

 

••yasoda

•••nandana

••••dasa

[bhavini]

I'm not in love with anyone. I don't even think of married life at all but it's people around me that go that there's no other alternative to life apart from marriage. The female siblings are on my case and like you said 99.9999% of people don't even know what marriage is for. I don't know any guy who follows even ONE of the 4 regulations.

Trust me I don't think of marriage, it's just something that's arisen cos many people in my generation are getting married otherwise I'm happy the way I am.

I think many of you find it hard to believe that maybe one can feel like this. This isn't something I just read up and felt I've got to aspire to it. I've always been like this which explains why I've never had or even wanted an intimate relationship with a guy.

Think what you want of what I've just said but as an individual, marriage doesn't interest me.

[Guest guest]

ok.. i can bring to you airplanes of ex brahmachary and, sadly, some ex sannyasi to demonstrate that renunciation is not at all cheap

 

but if there's not a "candidate" it is very difficult to speak in abstract, the problem arises if you like or love someone, so do not be fanatic, but do not marry merely for social custom.

 

harekrishna

[bhavini]

cool, that's all I wanted to know. So it's wrong to get married purely for social custom.

I don't want to be a sanyasini, I just want to be able to practice Krishna Consciousness perfectly and to be able to follow the 4 regulations. And I'm not a fanatic. If I meet a nice guy who's a devotee, who knows?

[Haridham]

I wasnt trying to imply anything. I totally agree with you that most people in the world dont have a clue what marriage is about. For them its a ticket to have sex. Both for the girl and the boy. Thats all they know.

 

I think I know what kind of pressure your under. Especially if you are from an indian community. Most of them are so bent out of shape for marriage but they have no clue. Its a competion for them. Try to resist as much as possible. I was under the same pressure and all I can say is that these people are ignorant bas......sorry I get kinda sensative about this subject.

 

Pray to krsna that he helps you find a good husband. Keep chanting and challenge these people when they say to you that you should get maried. Ask them why? What is the purpose of marriege? Why should one get married? I gaurantee you that they wont know.

 

I did all these. They only do this to satisfy their lusty desires. I have been through all of this. I challenged and defeated each one of them but because I felt respect for my parents I got married and now I am in a big mess.

 

Guru, Sastra Sadhu must be followed. You shoudnt let anyone touch you until you figure out if their goal is the same as your goal.

 

Run away from home if you want to. Now I as I say this dont just drop everything and run away but never jeapordize your principles.

 

I mean quote them the verse I just gave you above. Ask them "who qualifies to get married do you know"? "what is the purpose marriage if you want me to get married so badDo you even know that you dont have to get married"

 

Man tell me to come there, I think I would shoot them all.

 

If it were me and I had a chance there are these guju's who are in the soni cast who have caused me such issues and are trying ruin my life and my wife's life. They dont focus on their spiritual life at all and its all mundane but if it were up to me I would get them all in one room and create another halaucast. THey dont like the devotees either. If those are the people that you are talking about THEN AVOID THEM AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You are a brave girl. If you knew my story you would cry.

 

Hare KRsna

[Priitaa]

I guess what surprised me on this thread by some and not by all, is that one of the regulative principles is made 'optional' once you get married. They are optional for FOLK members, not for initiated disciples. Now don't get me wrong (as I can all ready hear it), householders fall down all the time and I'm a realist. Simply I am saying we should not try to change the standard for grhasta but we should just be honest, call it a fall down, try to pick ourselves up and move on. If we truly want to get out of this material world we have to find a way to give up sex life, and fall in love with Krishna too. I'm just talking about a combination of honesty and not changing the process to make ourselves feel first class when we're not.

[Guest guest]

"One regulative principle, optional? "

 

who said that?

[Priitaa]

 

"One regulative principle, optional? "

 

who said that?

 

 

I didn't say anyone specificially said it, and I did say not everyone indicated it. But there is this underlying mood in some posts that if you want sex life, just get a wife. Devotee women get married to share Krishna consciousness with someone, and I know for a fact that in many brahmacari ashrams it is preached that marriage is for sex. Not all brahmacari ashrams preach this so dont misquote me. Anyway, in the brahmacarini ashram we were taught the opposite. DON'T get married if you want sex. First become qualified to marry and work on giving up attachment to sex desire. Then we would marry with the consciousness to have a Krishna conscious relationship. Except the men were taught the opposite. Needless to say, there were many problems as a result.

 

Also, though I don't have a quote, I have often heard it said, the degree we desire sex, to that degree (approximately) we have fallen away from Krishna. Or the other way around too, that to whatever degree we have lost sex desire, to the degree we have increased love of God/Krishna.

[Guest guest]

 

the more you repressed yourself towards sex, the more you crave for it. I am talking about the renunciation of sex in a marriage life. The reason why there is marriage is to balance the lust present in everyone's body. Maybe this is the reason why there are lots of broken marriages within ISKCON. Repression of one's self that will lead to a broken marriage, I believe is more of a down fall and selfishness. Because you are more concern of your personal advancement rather than the advancement of the whole family. When you get married, two souls became one, therefore each partner is responsible for each other and with their children...if not, the cycle of broken marriages will go on and on. Who then is the more responsible and more pleasing? going to Krishna alone or with your family?

[Priitaa]

 

the more you repressed yourself towards sex, the more you crave for it.

 

 

 

Who said taking vows is about repression? If you want to have sex, dont take the vows. Its that simple. Once you take them, you should be trained enough and knowledgeble enough to know how not to have sex, without using artificial repression to achieve that goal. (Repression is not the same as sense control.)

 

 

I am talking about the renunciation of sex in a marriage life.

 

 

 

For the initiated devotee, part of the vow is not to engage in illicit sex. We dont say no sex life. No. There can be sex, for the purpose of propagating Krishna conscious children. When there is pregnancy, no more sex until another chlid is desired, then at the best time to conceive. And 50 rounds are chanted before trying to conceive. This is our standard. I dont know where you are getting your philosophy from, but the more I read, the more I see things which are different from Prabhupada's books. Try to understand, to become a disciple is serious business.

 

So often I see one day a devotee says, "Oh yes swamiji, I so much want to get out of this material world and am therefore willing to do whatever it takes." Then later on, "This vow is repression and not healthy to mind or body. I dont think I should have to do this anymore. Yet, I still think I should get to go back to Godhead." We want our cake and eat it too.

 

 

The reason why there is marriage is to balance the lust present in everyone's body. Maybe this is the reason why there are lots of broken marriages within ISKCON.

 

 

 

I dont know how much experience you have had within ISKCON to give advice, but in this area, you are talking to the wrong person about celibacy as a cause of divorce within our movement. I will tell you why.

 

I use to live in this one (devotee) community where they held women and men's groups. In those groups, what you are sayiing above is exactly what they preached, big time. By the way, this is contrary to Prabhuapda's teachings and is not taught in other devotee communities. However, they were actually telling everyone to go home and have sex with their spouse, otherwise putting fear in them that they would probably end up divorced! It did not save one marriage. Now, I have reserached this, and even the nondevotees will tell you, sex or lack of sex have little to do with divorce anymore. It is life and lack of (living) life that causes divorce. Its lack of kindness and consideration in daily activities that causes divorce. People dont stay married cuz they are lusty and getting some. They stay married cuz they are treated right. Otherwise all these people who are going at it like bunnies (pardon the expression but I need to make the point) would all be happily married and not be getting divorces. Yet we see they are divorcing, often, and in large numbers.

 

 

Repression of one's self that will lead to a broken marriage, I believe is more of a down fall and selfishness.

 

 

 

Just try to understand. Bhakti Yoga is not about repression. Usually though, one needs to get the training to even comprehend how it could be possibly done any other way. Only training will teach that.

 

With that said, whats selfish is to tell your spiriutal master you will follow all four of those regulative principles, then you decide not to, and he now has to take your karma on his head. -- I am beginning to think you are not familiar with our teachings and/or never lived in an ashrama to get trained up. Ashrama living completely changes a person, makng it easier. It makes everything easier. Then when you move out, you have a life long strength. So, if you have not had this experience, it would be next to impossible for you or anyone similar, to even understand the concept of giving up sex. Its the hardest thing in the entire material world to give up. It takes training, desire to let it go, practice in celibacy, and love of God. Once we have love of Krishna in our hearts, who would want something like sex? Some great saints of the past said they spit at the thought of sex. Not at woman, but at sex. And not to put it down, but to wake us up that there is something that feels even better. Something many can't believe.

 

 

Because you are more concern of your personal advancement rather than the advancement of the whole family.

 

 

 

So the entire family suffers when the spouse isn't getting any. Not so. Besides, hopefully a devotee marries a devotee, therefore both having the same goals of celibacy and God.

 

Simply don't take vows if you want to have sex. Its that easy to resolve this problem.

 

 

When you get married, two souls became one,

 

 

 

Two souls never become one.

 

 

therefore each partner is responsible for each other and with their children...if not, the cycle of broken marriages will go on and on.

[Guest guest]

Well just to say that it is the case where I live, we, men, are said that marriage life is only if you can't give up sex desire.

 

Personally when I heard this I felt like leaving ISKCON.

 

Is that all to marriage I was wondering... somekind of sex vent. Wow such a degrading view of the true meaning of marriage. I wondered if all ISKCON devotees thought that way. So shallow, and we are supposed to be a spiritual community?

[Priitaa]

No, that's not what the (original) ISKCON believed, tho some of its members with problems did, but you'll find that in every religion, even every nonreligion but life. However, these are not Prabhupada's teachings. He says many things about marriage, how the couple can work together in peace in Krishna consciousness, etc.