"Babaji" about ...

[kailasa]

"Babaji" about falling soul, acceptance sanyasa, raganuga bhakti, whether the spiritual organizations are necessary for us, whether creation GBC in GM and so on.

 

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- Falling soul

 

The Scriptus speak about falling soul. It is spoken that falling was - "anadi". As falling "anadi" naturally that the inhabitant can understand, that the soul and was not in an spiritual world. There in fact "it is "good", therefore as the soul could to fall? But here in fact too like "well"? Really "anadi" does not specify absolute infinity. The absolute infinity is eternity of relations of soul and the God.

 

That writes Bhaktivinoda Thakur in this occasion -

 

" The individual soul may sometimes find himself under the control of the illusory potency maya, but the Supreme Personality of Godhead is always the controller of maya.

 

" If he forgets this duty, the individual souls comes under maya's control. Then the soul stays away from Lord Krsna. That staying away from Lord Krsna means that the soul enters the material world. "

 

Naturally that for babaji it cannot be argument because they do not accept authority SBT. Some citations sastra (see the appendix)

 

 

- Whether it is necessary sanyasa?

 

The following step of the some people apa sampradaya professing idea of " pure love " will be that they reject sanyasa. Including do under the reference from dialogue Lord Caitanya with Ramananda Ray where He "has rejected" it varnasram. Obviously that varnasram it is initial institute of a religious life. Nevertheless it is possible to see as Lord Caitanya strictly followed varnasram and grihastha and in renunciation. All devoted Lord Caitanya followed system varnasram. If it was not important that all dialogue would consist of one question and one answer as actually all and would like to introduce it those who are materialistic actually and to whom varnasram that and is necessary first of all.

 

 

- A priority raganuga bhakti

 

The following stage of development by " pure love " goes a priority raganuga bhakti or sadhana-raganuga bhakti. Referring on that that the method sadhana and raganuga means "different" moods, the some people apa sampradaya therefore allocate at once "raganuga", take on a pair of contextual citations. The real way of fidelity means consecutive development. First it BG, then consecutive STUDYING (to not confuse to formal reading) SB, further CC (that as a rule and not actually, but it is not forbidden) and the ambassador goes some from sastra Gosvami which WILL not be UNDERSTOOD if before it the person did not realize the previous spiritual principles.

 

As Madhurya Kadambini perfectly describes as sadhana bhakti passes in sadhana-raganuga bhakti. That in CC it is spoken about necessity to follow sadhana bhakti and as more mature stage it raganuga bhakti which besides remains strictly in external frameworks sadhana, at least in an ideal. Thus both sadhana and raganuga externally look always equally, the instruction Lord Caitanya directly is those. SB gradually and consistently brings us to higher themes, describing greatness of the God (mood sadhana bhakti). Srila Narottama dasa Thakur as speaks that comprehension of greatness of the God is the indispensable initial stage of a spiritual life. Thus raganuga bhakti there can not be the first stage, and an attribute mature sadhana this absence anarthas in the certain degree.

 

As to greatness it is obvious that all of us want greatness. We can try to squeeze out and realize own greatness different externally methods, but essence frequently same. As the fact will be, that greatness it that does more strongly our sraddha, but instead of what to realize greatness of the God as it is necessary and to strengthen our belief in the authoritative image, we instead of it chase more own greatness. Yes, the belief practically any faith keeps on comprehension of own greatness that is impersonalism actually. And so it is told that is necessary not to realize the greatness, and greatness of the God or to follow a principle sadhana or studying SB consistently. Srila Prabhupada writes very wonderfully on a theme of greatness of the God - " for the caused souls comprehension of greatness of the God MORE IMPORTANT than what comprehension that of the supreme aspects. " Comprehension of greatness it is MORE IMPORTANT. Srila Prabhupada writes - " for PURE devotee there is no difference between a spiritual kiss and lilas of three Visnu ".

 

The reality will be, that mature sadhana uplifts the person in higher spiritual spheres and on a question on what role in it plays the guru, Shrila Prabhupada answers - " do not worry, as soon as the person reaches such level, all components already are. " It is real if the person reaches a maturity it is doubtless that she is pacified on this question and unique anxiety of such raised souls and our spiritual teachers it how to help anothers.

 

As to raganuga that all art of the sermon will be what to develop spontaneous interest to hearing the Holy Writ. Spontaneous means including not pushed by that or other mechanically, whether it be in the form " we it is the bettest " or still as. It is obvious that such interest can will wake up in others when we have interest to sastra. Spontaneous as means that the person has spiritual freedom or develops spiritual reason. Spontaneous interest to games of the God also is perfection of religion as Shrila Prabhupada writes. Obviously that sadhana in itself it is not spontaneous, nevertheless correct sadhana means that feelings are correctly occupied in devotional service and thus interest to a spiritual life grows. Sadhana can look as attempt to reduce a material component and sadhana as means realized a spiritual life.

 

Making comments on the term of "rati" or spontaneous attachment Srila Prabhupada in one place refers to a verse "brahma-bhuta". Brahma-bhuta prasannatma - the person testing increasing spiritual happiness, begins the service to the God in the spontaneous image. Actually all true sermon and all qualified administration which anyhow it is inevitable in any spiritual organizations it is directed on it - brahma-bhuta - rati - spontaneous fidelity. And imho if it to do following standard way SB then all this finds really mature character (it is possible to see by the example of many devotees). In this case we should not simulate anything and all only are happy such mature fidelity and itself such devoted finds value as the one who can give a good management of all rest. If to try to describe now all this in three words, these three words in my opinion - a constancy, sequence and some groundlessness. Everyone is brahman or the spiritual consciousness, and spiritual happiness has no in the basis of the material reasons and from this level the person can have spontaneous interest to a spiritual statement. Precisely as well as that all other high qualities proceed from spontaneous interest including absence of all these material motives in religion that so always casts a shadow on religion. Therefore correct sadhana also wakens such spontaneous interest to devoted service, imho it and is criterion sadhana and true sadhana.

 

Obviously that interest to a spiritual life at us quite often in general is absent also we sometimes we wake up only when conversation starts to go or about material love, or about "spiritual" love. But why there is no interest? Because the person is too concerned with the material component. All mind, reason and feelings are absorbed by process of meditation on a material component in its different displays. 18000 verses contain SB and each such verse is spiritually unique! 420000 (!) verses has written Srila Jiva Gosvami and He why that writes not only on themes of notorious love. Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur making comments SB, besides probably in empty writes what for that about Manu and what for in general it is necessary to know about Manu, I do not know, but the fact will be that Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur and Srila Jiva Gosvami make comments on all this - about Manus, about Maharaja Judhishthira, about Visnu Purana. " Visnu "? it in fact that... At all ours parampara, Lord Visnu it sadhana, and we in fact madhurya raganuga bhaktas! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

 

- A priority of "madhurya-rasa"

 

Actually this question has been already discussed above how many that. Srila Prabhupada writes - " there is no difference between various races ". BRS and CC speak that passing neutral relations is improbable that the person it will reach spiritual success. If we also can understand that madhurya-rasa is the supreme rasa in spiritual sense not from a material position? The wide sermon on a priority "madhurya-rasa" it actually populism as a matter of fact. I shall not write much on this theme but if that a theme very fruitful and to tell it is possible much in such occasion. "Babaji" and in this question besides not too trouble itself. Their quick reference to such supreme themes certainly speaks it about their pragmatism, but all this is not so practical. It is not practical because such methods are not real and not correspond the guru-sadhu-sastra and consequently that in that case is necessary to come back back if the person will really follow in the steps spiritual authorities later.

 

Actually than more the person consistently follows or even tries to follow a spiritual science, especially it will be mature. Srila Prabhupada writes in this occasion that His purpose - it not small semiripe and useless by and large a fruit. " Here there is no place for bhajana " - the some people think. Spiritually therefore and spiritually that is absolute, therefore listening consistently SB the person and follows in the steps great authorities. It is possible to recollect in this occasion as that SBST preached about Prahlada lila of the on Radha kunda. But for babaji and their true followers all this for a long time the gone stage similar. As they say they " are executed by pleasure of the supreme rasas ".

 

 

- Absence of the organization

 

Undoubtedly what to follow such material hand-made articles it is better outside of the organization. In general materialists do not love the organization. There are two types of materialists - one do not love the organization because want material freedom and the second type is those who very much love the organization if can dominate there (undoubtedly that in the true spiritual organization was the leader or the head it is one of the heaviest duties). And as the organization - is heavier than idle shaking, and what for then to trouble itself. Especially if we do not follow sastra and to follow we do not gather, in that case it is necessary for us a lot of open space, and there are hundred faiths with the same quantity of philosophies and everyone undoubtedly carries conclusive true and unique belief.

 

All that spiritually, always all is organized. Even the material world is organized if to peer very well there a little. If to speak seriously, to be outside of the organization in general it is impossible, in any case - babaji, ISKCON, GM and the material world all this is the organizations. Even Vaikuntha it is the certain organization, only in impersonal brahman there is no organization (full merge of love good luck and with all at once simultaneously) and as in ignorance.

 

 

- A priority diksa guru

 

In the true spiritual organization there is no formally established priority of one guru. We can see it in games Lord Caitanya for example. Was much acaryas and all of them operated in common, sang in common, preached in common итд.

 

In general the spiritual life proceeds from set of the guru - " the equal attitude to diksa guru and siksa guru - a secret of success in a spiritual life ". It is a secret of success as writes SBT. Therefore true sampradaya it diksa guru and set siksa guru. Now our brothers from " GM " anyhow following Srila Prabhupada leaves from the concept babaji about the only thing " sat guru " a little. In one of GM is formal GBC, in the another formal ritvika which that can become informal at those or other difficulties - for what she and is established. If ritvika it will be cancelled, besides that this decision of this question hardly is possible to tell.

 

Actually GBC it is necessary for all GM, it seems to me what to make it not so difficultly and it will strengthen their spiritual weight in continuous spiritual dialogue with the same babaji for example. GBC does not contradict the concept of " one guru ", in ISKCON at us as at all different gurus and as there are those or other preferences of different gurus different disciples, but it is not the big problem in ISKCON. GBC GM as will quite bring new inspiring and freshening undoubtedly, in a pulse to a spiritual life GM. That it even in what that degrees will compel to order SPIRITUAL philosophy of all GM as. As to struggle with impersonalism here is how time it as enters into concept of struggle with impersonalism, it is doubtless that GBC makes all personal, personal dialogue and personal cooperation.

 

Obviously as that ISKCON will not accept the listed above philosophies as to falling soul and so forth during the following of 10000 at least. It not philosophy ISKCON , it not philosophy GM, it not the philosophy true babaji, is material philosophy.

 

The idea of one guru all organization of the guru is undoubtedly practical in what that the moments, nevertheless such idea simply continues rise plurality of the organizations by a principle " as it is pleasant to whom ". Certainly, the eternal principle siksa corrects set of problems, nevertheless real expression of such principle it GBC.

 

- "Brahma-Madhava"

 

The following unique position will be, that even sometimes and spiritual leaders cannot understand the some people that philosophy Madhvacarya makes a part of philosophy Gaudiya. That nobody can obviously jump in certain supreme spheres, passing steps of spiritual growth. Therefore the founder sampradaya is Lord Brahma, and one of the basic steps of a spiritual life is expressed in philosophy Srila Madhvacarya. Srila Madhvacarya this the founder-acarya parampara, it in fact not what that casual part how babaji and their followers can criticize mood Vaikuntha if is an obvious stage of a spiritual life? Some gurus Gaudia Matha as indirectly hint the followers that ISKCON professes mood Vaikuntha, and they that precisely carry true rasa. The some people speak that it Vaikuntha, the some people speak that it is the initial stage, the some people speak that it is a mix, but it not Vaikuntha, it not the beginning, namely that Srila Prabhupada's books this last word of pure fidelity.

 

Actually the true rasa means comprehension Vaikuntha or love to Nityananda Prabhu and then by words Narottama dasa Thakura - " I can realize Vrindavana lila ". The fact will be, that Srila Prabhupada preaches in mood Lord Caitanya, that Srila Prabhupada and finishes in the unique image spiritual work of all sampradaya. Madhurya-vipralambha or the supreme mood Goloka Vrindavana, is those the true message Lord Caitanya or gaura-vani, dialogue with Lord Caitanya. Obviously that this mood is present at all acaryas, but that as the supreme mood it is submitted by Srila Prabhupada. Moreover all this is submitted as practical guidance as. It is pure fidelity in her last phase - in a firm condition. The sugar syrup being condensed, becomes firm, that speaks about degrees of his saturation and this last stage and is submitted by Srila Prabhupada. It are necessary to be surprised only that we why that we can not so will quickly plunge into this mood, really, it is a little bit strange that this supreme mood cannot be accessible to us in detail to much of other "rasas". Very strange that we not can to fly it promptly on wings of love in this sphere as we like to fly or take off from the spiritual organizations for example. Actually it is not strange, and quite naturally.

 

It is meant also with "founder - acarya" - Srila Prabhupada has established this supreme mood of fidelity. It has been described much steps before it since philosophy Madhvacarya and in the end the full spiritual result has been brought. It is a full spiritual result from the point of view of spiritual philosophy and it is a full result from the point of view of spiritual mood.

 

It also is "Gaudiya" eternal mood of separation Lord Caitanya! I do not try to tell that all this is popular, but it and is Brahma-Madhava-gaudiya sampradaya. "Gaudiya" it not a meeting Krisna lila as it try to present babaji and their true followers. Therefore all such followers should not make comments sastra on Srila Prabhupada and if they will want that it is possible to follow simply to this sastra and it is obvious that anybody from them has not surpassed Prabhupada and nobody will surpass. In this occasion Srila Prabhupada writes - " Lord Caitanya can occupy my place only. "

 

 

Lyrical digression-

 

Except for that that God has cakra as the weapon, He as has and club against ateists. And effect of influence spiritual club I want to tell simply tremendous - shakes up so, that the atheism, this of snakes with numerous heads, even to think starts. After impact club, it, like on a kind strong and places even the architectural building of materialism, gives a crack immediately. Cracks on all building, on all corners and back streets, such force impact club. There is no necessity for any local actions, but fidelity does not suffer. With second impact all scatters into smithereens, but it certainly does not concern to the spiritual organizations.

 

Anyhow all and all now carries in herself this or that material strike, but it seems to me that it is necessary to understand all over again very simple idea - the person should have the strong base, correctly having understood philosophy Brahma-Madhava-gaudiya sampradaya.

 

 

- Principles

 

As to principles as they say any interested person can read that it that raganuga devotees do not depend on instructions sastra. They in general from anything do not depend, but on the organizations, neither from philosophy, nor from varnasram but only pure fidelity, only "love" as they say. In this sense babaji India are completely not lonely, truly such ideas are embodied at us everywhere.

 

 

Some result-

 

Undoubtedly and that everywhere it is possible to find both bad and good and essence in that that it is necessary to accept positive things and probably sometimes to try to understand the reason of this or that negative. The fact will be as bad and good in the spiritual organizations it is simple reflection of our own qualities. Whence undertakes this "bad", it we and bring it{him}, whence undertakes good, it proceeds from our aspiration to cultivate a spiritual life.

 

************************

 

The appendix about falling soul.

 

SB 10.87.38

 

" The illusory material nature attracts the minute living entity to embrace her, and as a result he assumes forms composed of her qualities. Subsequently, he loses all his spiritual qualities and must undergo repeated deaths. You, however, avoid the material energy in the same way that a snake abandons its old skin. Glorious in Your possession of eight mystic perfections, You enjoy unlimited opulences. "

 

SB 11.2.37

 

" When the living entity is attracted by the material energy, which is separate from Krsna, he is overpowered by fear. Because he is separated from the Supreme Personality of Godhead by the material energy, his conception of life is reversed. In other words, instead of being the eternal servant of Krsna, he becomes Krsna's competitor. This is called viparyayo ’ smatiu. To nullify this mistake, one who is actually learned and advanced worships the Supreme Personality of Godhead as his spiritual master, worshipful Deity and source of life. He thus worships the Lord by the process of unalloyed devotional service. "

 

CC Madhya 22.24

 

" The living entity is bound around the neck by the chain of maya because he has forgotten that he is eternally a servant of Krsna. "

 

Madhya 20.117

 

" Forgetting Krsna, the living entity has been attracted by the external feature from time immemorial. Therefore the illusory energy (maya) gives him all kinds of misery in his material existence. "

[raga]

Howdy ho. An impressive document you have there.

[Guest guest]

"Actually GBC it is necessary for all GM"

 

.this is a "non issue"... first you must have pure devotees acting as guru, next it is up to them to reunite in a council or to preach separately... if they're pure, they're right, the problem is personal purity not the system.

 

To follow the gbc system by prabhupada has not saved iskcon from the disgrace of false masters

[anadi]

Howdy ho. An impressive document you have there.

 

 

I didn't read it (and I will certainly not - if I read the begining I know ...) but your comment made me really laugh.

 

Your sense of humour is sometimes so welcome.

[raga]

 

As to raganuga that all art of the sermon will be what to develop spontaneous interest to hearing the Holy Writ.

 

 

This bit of gibberish I found particularly delightful, though there are others, too.

 

Anadi - I'm glad to be welcome. Thank you.

[Guest guest]

***first you must have pure devotees acting as guru,

 

Needs follow guru, no need stay "pure devotee"- "sat guru" and so on. Qualification it is follow guru.

 

***next it is up to them to reunite in a council or to preach separately... if they're pure,

 

They not pure, they do not follow guru.

 

***they're right, the problem is personal purity not the system.

 

It is wrong conception.

 

***To follow the gbc system by prabhupada has not saved iskcon

 

Saved. This sistem live, all another will be destroy.

[Guest guest]

***I didn't read it

 

O it is good. Not read this Anadi, it is obstacles for spiritual life. /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

***This bit of gibberish I found particularly delightful, though there are others, too.

 

O how great people go in audarya. You now regulary go on this site? Hmmm, it is good. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

kailasa... your problem is that you write, in this forum and in other ones, only to create or answer controversies on the "iskcon-non iskcon" issue.

Are you thinking only to these things? Are you completely absorbed on fighting that maharaja, that math, that devotee? So speak us a little about krishna, chaitanya, mahaprabhu, prabhupada, your gurudeva.

I am sure that you are very advanced, stop this useless fights and show s how you are blissful and advanced... and we will follow you refusing all our GM gurus, coming back in Iskcon and all that stuff.

 

Show me your devotion and happiness, speaking about devotional subjects, giving advices to the many questions made to this forum and i will follow you.

 

teach me with the example, not only fighting and defeating, this is sense gratification.....

 

do this service to your (and mine) prabhupad's Iskcon

[Guest guest]

****kailasa... your problem is that you write, in this forum and in other ones, only to create or answer controversies on the "iskcon-non iskcon" issue.

 

I am write MANY "non Iskon" article. Yes I am write some "ISKCON-non ISKCON" article it is problem?

 

***Are you thinking only to these things?

 

I am answer. We may speak about spiritual, I am speak about spiritual many. You do not has interest for spiritual?

 

***Are you completely absorbed on fighting that maharaja, that math, that devotee?

 

Nobody do not has titiksa if some do aparadha. They do aparadha professional.

 

***So speak us a little about krishna, chaitanya, mahaprabhu, prabhupada, your gurudeva.

 

Open may friend site. Wake up.

 

***I am sure that you are very advanced

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif I am servant may gurus. I am not wery advansment, but I am not follow dreams.

 

***stop this useless fights

 

It is not useless. If they go in own problems - I am stop this.

 

***and show s how you are blissful and advanced...

 

You read "Nilacala"? It is very nice. I am not know like this read in englis, but in russian - very well.

 

***and we will follow you refusing all our GM gurus, coming back in Iskcon and all that stuff.

 

They no need go in ISKCON.

 

***Show me your devotion and happiness,

 

Who are you? Hapinnes transcental, hapinees it is not hapiness material.

 

***speaking about devotional subjects,

 

You from - GM? ISKCON? Babaji? I am may speak for you spiritual. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

***giving advices to the many questions made to this forum and i will follow you.

 

You chany holy name? You read Srila Prabhupada?

 

***teach me with the example,

 

Ok, go in sancirtan.

 

****not only fighting and defeating,

 

It is YOU only see "fighting and defeating", YOU not see anymore? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

***this is sense gratification.....

 

No.

 

***do this service to your (and mine) prabhupad's Iskcon

 

Who are you? I am stay in ISKCON.

[Guest guest]

" I am may speak for you spiritual. "

–––ok thanks, speak spiritual, there's people in other threads speaking that god is impersonal and krsna is a material body, or someone needs advice in their relationships with husband, wife .... the mind in the buddhism, the new message of indradyumna maharaja etc.

 

give your opinion on these subjects... the ISKCON vs NM vs GM stuff is a little boring .. everything has been already said, let us (me, you, us) preach krsna consciousness

[Guest guest]

***" I am may speak for you spiritual. "

–––ok thanks, speak spiritual, there's people in other threads speaking that god is impersonal and krsna is a material body,

 

Then no needs do sektarian politics. Needs they go material world. People do not understand simple thingsm but they "preach" - Radha bhava. Radha bhava it is Lord Caitanya.

 

***or someone needs advice in their relationships with husband, wife .... the mind in the buddhism, the new message of indradyumna maharaja etc.

 

Needs varnasram. Then all be pacefull. Now civilisation bring for all quik dead.

 

***give your opinion on these subjects...

 

If you give links. I am not be able read all site. It site Jahnava Prabhu sooo big, I am not has so time. You give me links pls, I am go. OK?

 

***the ISKCON vs NM vs GM stuff is a little boring ..

 

ISKCON spiritual win, they defeat.

 

***everything has been already said, let us (me, you, us) preach krsna consciousness

 

Yes in door to door. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Then realisatin come. Needs not pragmatical preaching.