Bahai...food for thought?

[Dom]

Arise O children of India, the kalkin avatar has come; Vishnu's avatar has come with the name Baha'u'llah Nowhere in the entire world can the influence of religion be seen. The wicked have obtained everything; the truthful have lost all. According to the Gita the time of Vishnu's avatar has come...Arise (19*)

 

This is an exerpt from the following article,

http://www.h-net.org/~bahai/bhpapers/vol2/india2.htm

[Kulapavana]

Baha'u'llah is certainly NOT Kalki-sarira. Kalki will come at the end of Kali-yuga, and these will be pretty violent pastimes of the Lord, quite fitting for these wicked days of man-kind.

[anadi]

Never! Not for us.

 

This bahaula is an eclectic religious attempt to expend over the world (for what reasons whatever) which defintely laks the purity of message.

 

We are Gaudya VaiSnava and follow pure bhakti as taught by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

tan-nAma-rUpa-caritAdi-sukirtanAnu-

smRtyoH krameNa rasanA-manasi niyojya

tiSThan vraje tad-anurAgi-janAnugAmi

kAlaM nayed akhilam ity upadeSa-sAram

 

tiSThan vraje living in Vraja;

anugAmi as a follower;

anurAgi-jana of the eternal residents of Vraja who possess inherent spontaneous love;

tad for Him (Sri KRSNa);

kalam nayet one should utilise all his time;

niyojya by engaging;

rasana the tongue; manasa and the mind;

krameNa sequentially;

sukIrtana anu-smRtyoH caritAdi of the names, form, qualities and pastimes;

tad of Him (Vrajendra-nandana Sri KRSNa);

iti this only; sAram is the essence; akhilam of all upadeSa instruction

 

[Dom]

"This bahaula is an eclectic religious attempt to expend over the world (for what reasons whatever) which defintely laks the purity of message."

 

Anadi, I am very curious about your view. What in particular do you think the Bahai motivation is? It sounds like you think it is somehow sinister. And also you believe it to lack purity? And whats wrong with a world religion? Perhaps we might finally find the elusive Eutopia in that way.

 

[theist]

Dom, I am wondering how the Bahai's describe God and our relationship to Him. Do you know?

[Guest guest]

 

According to the Gita the time of Vishnu's avatar has come...Arise (19*)

 

 

 

Why do so many people try to use the Gita to prop up their religions when it is obvious they have never even read the Gita?

 

Kalki as the founder of Bahai religion? Give me a break. Are these people really this dense?

 

 

 

[anadi]

What in particular do you think the Bahai motivation is?

 

It is sinister, as every system devised by conditioned souls. If they would be pure at mind they would have followed their bahaula, who might had his revelations

What kind of?

brahmeti paramAtmeti bhagavan?

Is their message transcendental?

Should I waste my time to find this out?

No.

 

Have they knowledge about the sweetness of Krishna, that our love for Him is our real treasure, that we have nothing to do with this material world?

Or is this religion more a salvationist type of religion, that rather steals from everyting something, with no clear concept of what is what?

 

The world religion is the eternal religion of the soul- <font color="blue"> vaiSnava dharma: which is divine love for the most attractive one </font color>(Sri Krishna the most madhur and soft and gentle and amazing and wonderful, to hug and play with and oh so much).

Read Jaiva Dharma.

 

But to come there first one should learn the nectar of instruction UpadeSamRta by Srila Rupa Gosvami, but not alone, in the company of some devotees, and learn Mana Sikza - Teachings to the mind by Srila Raghunata Dasa Gosvami and than Bhagavat-gita

And than <font color="blue"> seek the association of more advanced devotees (if possible pure devotees)</font color> and from them you should hear the <font color="blue"> pure message of Srimad Bhagavatam</font color>, which arose like a sun after Sri Krishnas departure <font color="red"> to make the white lotus of the heart of the jivas to blosom and open up</font color> , and the ocean of divine love to drawn you under its sweling wawes.

 

Up to that point

first understand that we are wretch, and that's why we should be humble

and than we should surrender to guru

like making a vow:

to accept what is favorable for pure devotion

to reject what is unfavourable for pure devotion

like having faith

that Bhagavan Sri Krishna is your only and real maintainer

that Bhagavan Sri Krishna is your only and real protector

recongnizing that one is a wretch and

one must be humble and

in the end gives one soul to guru and Krishna

 

And than goes in the process of sadhana

 

KRti-sadhya bhavet sadhya

bhava sa sadhanabhidha

nitya-siddhasya bhavasya

prakatyam hrdi sadhyata

 

under the guidance of guru and vaiSnavas to attain the goal of it which is the arising of the sun of divine love on the horizont of the heart.

 

And than you can go deeper and deeper in that ocean.

 

and after a while you come out of it and start to preach about how glorious it is.

 

Otherwise preach about the glories of your spiritual master, who resides in the ever increasing ocean of bliss.

 

And when your detachment from this material world became natural and you satisfied your guru, certainly you will be able to receive gurus mercy, that he is eager to give it to you as soon as possible so that your love for the soft gentle and sweet ones Radha and Krishna will become reality.

[Dom]

Hey theist, I'd love to share with you what I know about Bahai, but unfortunately I don't believe I could do it justice in a single post, it probably would be drawn out and sound too much like rambling. But I would love to talk to you personally about it, you can im me,my instant messanger screen name is PLvenomous, or email me domlojko@hotmail.com I hope to hear from you.

[gHari]

Letter:<blockquote>Los Angeles

14 June, 1972

 

My dear Surasrestha,

 

Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated May 25, 1972, and I have noted the contents. The article you have sent which was published in the newsletter there is very nice. The interviewer asked intelligent questions and you have given very nice answers also. It is apparent that you have understood our philosophy nicely so you continue to read our books regularly and preach vigorously, and help to distribute this great transcendental knowledge to all the distressed souls of this Kali yuga.

 

In answer to your questions, the red incarnation who appeared in the Treta-yuga is Yajnapati. Lord Mohammed is accepted by us as Saktyavesa Avatar, but we do not recognize the Bahai faith. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu appears once in the day of Brahma or whenever He is required to come. So far attending pujas at the houses of the Hindus there we can go and hold our kirtana but we should not take prasadam there. We can accept raw materials and take them to our temple but we should not accept any prasadam prepared by them. However, if they insist then we can take fruits and milk and offer them to Krishna. Cocoa and chocolate are not to be taken as they are intoxicants.

 

I am leaving for London on July the 4th and am returning to New Vrndavana for Janmastami celebration and at that time we can make further plans on my coming to Trinadad. In the meantime, continue to distribute this great message of Krsna Consciousness to all the people there and work hard to make the whole country into devotees. Hoping this will meet you in good health.

 

Your ever well wisher,

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami</blockquote>

 

Conversation excerpt from July 9, 1975:<blockquote>PrabhupAda: ...that requires complete overhauling. This religion, that religion will not help. They have no idea what is spiritual knowledge. Everyone is hovering on the mental plane. [break] ...the principle of Baha'i religion?

JayatIrtha: It was founded in Persia. It's a hodge-podge principle. (PrabhupAda laughs)

JagadIza: They think that everyone is evolving, that after taking this human life, you have to go to heaven. That's the next stage, even if you're the most sinful of all sinners.

PrabhupAda: Oh. Even one is sinful, he will also go?

JagadIza: Yes. Because they say that God is all-merciful, therefore...

PrabhupAda: You can do whatever you like.</blockquote>

 

Another topic but interesting:<blockquote>Los Angeles

15 June, 1972

72-06-15

Laguna Beach

 

My Dear Siddha Svarupananda,

 

Please accept my blessings. Just now I am in receipt of some pamphlets and one booklet entitled ``Sai Speaks'', so I see so many discrepancies from our line of action in devotional service. I do not know if you are again acting upon your old principles on the guise of becoming a Sannyasi from our disciplic succession. This cannot be allowed. If you are sincere to our line of action, please come here to Los Angeles and live with me for some time. If not, then you can disclose your mind frankly what you want to do. I cannot allow you to do all these things which are completely detrimental to our line of disciplic succession.

 

I shall be glad if you come here to stay with me, so I shall expect your reply one way or the other. Meanwhile hoping this will meet you in good health.

 

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

ACBS/sda</blockquote>

[Guest guest]

GHari,

 

Where did you find this letter to Siddha? Sai speaks was, I think, published before he was initiated by Srila Prabhupada. His old name was Sai.

<hr>

Also, in regard to Bahaullah, his philosophy is pure Advaita, as in Shankara's philosophy. And I am constantly amazed to see that people believe in a god who is so powerless that he could be arrested and put into a prison cell. According to these folks, the all powerful Lord (Bahaullah) could be imprisoned and held in jail as a prisoner, his great Power blocked by a thing as insignificant as a jailers key. Yet this Bahaullah, speaking of himself as God said:

"The God of eternity is in the prison." (Iqtedarat page 36)

He wasn't speaking of the spirit of God being in a prison, the Spiritual existence of God who is within the atoms and suchlike. He was talking about himself, the man Bahaullah who was locked up in a jail for a term.

 

-murali

[gHari]

That letter is found in the Vedabase. Thank you clarifying who "Sai" was.

[Guest guest]

I left ISKCON in 1973 to join "Sai"

 

I haven't seen that book Sai Speaks for 30 years.

 

-murali

[Dom]

I think Bahai faith is a step in our collective evolution as a society and people. Although I do respect and honor anything I learn from Krshna, and I hold it very close to my heart as Truth. I think before we as a planet, can truly free ourselves from materialism, we are going to start slow. What I really think Bahai is, is a way to a eutopian society, and I am thorougly convinced that the bahai faith is truly the future. Which shouldn't threaten devotees, because the Bahai's preach truth from all religions, and it seems that most of the core of both religion's teachings are the same.

[theist]

I am more into public forums actually.

 

They must have a conception that can fit into a small post. For instance is God ultimately impersonal light which at some point manifested Krsna or is that light simply an emanation from Krsna, His aura. This is what I am most interested in.

 

Let's just look at some of the basics.

[Dom]

Theist, if your asking about Bahai.....the analagy is often used, that the soul is like a mirror, that reflects the Lord's light, the cleaner the mirror is, the better the reflection, and the closer to the Lord you are. Bahai's don't believe in God on earth, just a manifistation of his divine presence, which is really God on earth if you think about it. I think that also, the Lord has always been a concious creator, and a personal God, we may not understand his ways because he is divine substance, which is the reason he doesn't manifest directly, why would he? This goes a bit hand in hand with Christian ideology about God the father as well.

 

P.S. This is not an attack on Krshna, so please lets discuss.

[Radhakunda_das]

The main theme of the Bahais(at least in public) is about world peace and eventually a world government probably growing from the united Nations but working according to Bahai principles. They talk of establishing first the small peace where Nations no longer fight each other and the greater peace where peace will reign in the heart of all people.

Spiritually it is not so clear. Perfection can not be attained except in infinite time. God cannot be known except through his manifestations like Jesus, Krishna,Moses and foremost Bahaullah who is the latest manifestation. All scriptures talk about the advent of Bahaullah. They also talk about progressive revelation or religion of the age and for now the Bahai religion is the only valid one. All others are out dated.

Their knowledge of the soul is very confused just as in Islam from which they seem to have grown. Abdul Baha says the soul is neither in the body or outside. It is free from egress and regress he says. Me and my Bahai friends often laugh a lot about it. The mystical writings of Bahaullah are like sufism. They are pretty close to Islam in principles.

 

Virndavan dharma ki jaya!!!!

 

[Gauracandra]

The thing that surprises me about the Bahai is that they are well organized enough to be able to do television advertising. The first time I saw one of their commercials I was a bit taken aback (in a good way). They must be bigger than I know.

[theist]

A softer side of Islam? Do they keep to the same practices only with a more liberal outlook or are they very different.

 

I am also surprised that they run tv ads. Perhaps more widespread then I realized.

 

I think I heard they are under some persecution by the radical Islamics in the Mideast.