Love

[Priitaa]

"I have got so many students, so many letters, how they are feeling directly. It is so nice. Pratyaksavagamam dharmyam su-sukham kartum avyayam. And very nice to perform. Chant and dance and eat. What do you want more? (laughter) Simply chanting, dancing, and eating nice sweetballs, kachori. So su-sukham and kartum avyayam. While performing, while practicing this process, it is very pleasurable, and avyayam. Avyayam means whatever you do, even if you execute one percent of this movement, that is your permanent asset. Permanent asset. If you do two percent, three percent, four percent... But don't wait for next life. Finish, cent percent. It is not very easy to execute; therefore finish. Don't wait, that "Let me finish in this life a certain percentage of self-realization, and next life I shall do." And what is the test of realization, finishing full percentage? The test is how much you have learned to love God, Krsna, that's all. You have got your love, you love somebody, but if you divide your love, that "I shall love this country and my society, my girlfriend and this and that, or boyfriend, and I shall try to love Krsna also..." No. That is also nice, but if you give predominance, all predominance, simply to love Krsna, you'll automatically love other things, and your life will be perfect. Other loving affairs will not be minus. Just like a Krsna conscious person, he loves not only his family and society; he loves even the animal, he loves even the ant, his love is so much expanded. It is so nice thing. How much you can love? Anything, as soon as there is some misunderstanding, the love is broken. But Krsna love is so sound that you'll never break, and your love will be expanded universally. It is so nice thing. And love you have got. You have simply misplaced your loving capacity to so many things. You just revert it to Krsna, and when you perfectly love Krsna, you'll see that you're loving your country, your society, your friend, more than what you loved before, it is so nice thing."SP lecture & Initiation, Seattle, Oct 20, 68

 

[Guest guest]

If we love Krishna, if we love everybody… as Prabhupada did… then we will continue Prabhupada's mission.

 

What are people doing to accomplish that?

[Priitaa]

Agreed. But lets not ruin the mood of this thread.

 

Here's more. You may prefer these.

 

"Sri Rupa Gosvami says that learned acaryas recommend that we follow the regulative principles even after the development of spontaneous love for Krsna. According to the regulative principles, there are nine departmental activities, as described above, and one should specifically engage himself in the type of devotional service for which he has a natural aptitude. For example, one person may have a particular interest in hearing, another may have a particular interest in chanting, and another may have a particular interest in serving in the temple. So these, or any of the other six different types of devotional service (remembering, serving, praying, engaging in some particular service, being in a friendly relationship or offering everything in one's possession), should be executed in full earnestness. In this way, everyone should act according to his particular taste." Nectar of Devotion, Ch 16

 

"As Guru Maharaja Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati use to say, "Don't try to see God. Is God to come and stand before us like a servant just because we want to see Him? That is not the submissive way. We have to oblige Him by our love and service." BBD, Ch 3

 

"When you have got a strong sense of love for the Supreme Lord, then it is possible that we can go on discharging our duty, at the same time remember the Lord. So we have to develop that sense." BG Intro, (First tape recorded by SP himself), NY, Feb. 19, 66

[Govindaram]

 

Can that be a service to Lord Krishna?

 

You think maybe??

[Priitaa]

"The bhakti-yoga process is practiced by the devotees in different methods like hearing, chanting, remembering, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, worshiping, praying, rendering service in love, becoming friendly, and offering all that one may possess. All nine methods are bona fide methods, and either all of them, some of them or even one of them can bring about the desired result for the sincere devotee. But out of all the nine different methods, the first one, namely hearing, is the most important function in the process of bhakti-yoga. Without hearing sufficiently and properly, no one can make any progress by any of the methods of practice." SB 2.2.36

 

[Priitaa]

"Change of body is there already. You are experiencing, but they do not believe that after death there is body. Why not? If you have got experience in the life--"I have passed through so many changes of body, from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, then middle age and old body"--then what is next? Why do you finish here? It is common logic. Why should you finish here? There must be body. This is real reasoning. And Krsna confirms it. Not only your contemplation. Krsna says, tatha dehantara-praptih: "In this way you'll have another body." The Krsna, the great authority, He says, from whom Brahma, the first creature, he learned. Tene brahma hrda adi-kavaye. Krsna, Vasudeva... Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya. He... Tene brahma hrda adi-kavaye. He taught this Vedic literature to the heart of Brahma. He can teach you through the heart also because He is sitting there. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese.

 

A particularly mention, hrd-dese, "within the core of the heart." He doesn't say that "Isvara is situated on your finger." No. Within the heart. The particular place is mentioned. Therefore the yogis' practice, real yoga practice, means to find out Krsna within the heart. That is real yoga. Dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginah. This is yogi. Yogis meditate. What for meditation? To find out Krsna within the heart. That is yoga, not to show magic and gymnastic. No, that is not. That gymnastic yoga, that is not yoga. Real yoga is to find out Krsna within one's own heart.

 

Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti... That yoga means you have to come to the platform of prema, love, not that simply official practice, you can see. You have to come to the platform... Without having love connection with Krsna, it is not possible to see Him. You may practice this hatha-yoga or gymnastic yoga for many, many births--you cannot see Krsna. Krsna can be seen when you smear with love ointment in your eyes. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. And that is possible: bhakti, through bhakti.

 

So therefore why not practice bhakti-yoga from the beginning if you want to see Krsna? And that is recommended by Krsna:

 

yoginam api sarvesam

mad-gata antaratmana

sraddhavan bhajate yo mam

sa me yuktatamo matah

 

Krsna says, "He's first-class yogi." Who? "Who is always trying to see Krsna within the heart." So it is very difficult task? In our bhakti-yoga we can teach this art of seeing Krsna within the core of the heart in one minute. It is so simple. You are seeing Krsna here. You must have impression and try to keep that impression within your heart always. Then you become first-class yogi." SB 7.9.34, Mayapur, March 12, 76

 

[Guest guest]

It's so nice we have so many processes to choose from… like chanting and hearing. Undoubtedly, we have taken advantage of these activities for 30 years.

 

But there are so many more who haven't heard… that only need to hear… as with us.

 

My experience is that devotees are alot more interesting when successfully preaching to karmis.

[Priitaa]

 

My experience is that devotees are alot more interesting when successfully preaching to karmis.

 

 

So we are otherwise, boring?

 

I agree that sankirtana is important, and that many devotees have quit preaching. But many things fit into the category of sankirtana.

[Guest guest]

Priitaa, you don't want to know what I really think.

 

But here's a hint:

Everyone gets the chance here (in this world) to bluff everyone else until they die.

 

I'm not in a chastizing or self-righteous mood… and it's hard for me to discuss the problems - much of it self-evident truth - without censorship.

 

But I am very concerned with what people think their duty is and it's bearing on us all.

 

I've been around since '76, just before Prabhupada left. I witnessed the magic of those sankirtana days… the world was being innudated with love. So I have some sense of what I'm talking about.

 

Meanwhile, I have witnessed the crumbling of Prabhupada's house and home.

 

This must be the resason:

Devotees cannot give up their egos enough to deal with others. Now what does that say about their personal advancement?

 

Boring? I rarely find a devotee boring… unless they talk too much.

 

If you understand you will practice. If you practice you will understand.

If you can't help yourself, you can't help others. If you can't help others, you can't help yourself.

 

KC IS FOR EVERYONE. LOVE IS NOT A SELFISH THING!

 

Where is this mercy and compassion for others? Obviously, we don't have it.

[Priitaa]

Guestji,

 

I do not know your past or what your personal experiences were/are. I only know mine. I have so often heard iskcon devotees say we can't develop love of God, and they got lost in concepts of strictness, which would have been fine, but it was devoid of being put to use to help develop that love of God/Krishna. It made so many devotees more hard hearted and cold, which is contrary to Personalism. It resulted in more activities than I wish to put here.

 

I joined in 74, and I too have witnessed the crumbling of Prabhupada's house (ISKCON). If and when I think of it, I become either angry, or depressed. And most certainaly it (the crumbling ISKCON) happened due to huge egos. Its not that I put up a post about love because I have my head in the sand, but quite the opposite. I feel if we start to share Prabhupada's true teachings, at least its a chance to turn things around. Maybe its a shot in the dark, maybe it wont even work, but if we do it then at least we can say we tried. And it works for us because we are never the looser when we preach.

 

The word 'preaching' has turned into meaning "shove it down their throats, and dont talk about anything sweet, only strict." I do not find that to be the way Prabhupada used the word. Its more about sharing Krishna's sweetness, as Rupa Goswami explains, to help people develop at least shadow attachement to Krishna. Rules and regs must be there too. But they exist to facilitate our spiritual advancement toward Krishna.

 

I agree though, that many do not understand what their responsibilities are. But even with that, the way to get it cleared up is to preach.

 

Yes, devotees talk to much, and I am no exception. I feel we talk too much because we were trained to be preachers, but now that energy is not put to proper use, so it has to come out somewhere. It comes out, sometimes, in all the wrong places. The problem isn't we talk too much, its WHAT we talk about too much (maya nonsense). And I have to throw in, not talking is a guy thing. Women talk and that's ok.

 

Yes, if we understand, we will practice, & the more we practice, the more we'll understand; a drowning man can't save another drowning man. And of course Krishna conscoiusness is for everyone, & love is not the same as selfishness. I guess what I don't understand is how you can assume everyone who posts (or my post) are devotees who are not trying to understand, not practicing, etc. Or else if this is how you feel, why don't you preach to them in a tangible way? Immediate chastizement usually turns them off. So to nicely preach, IMHO, would be where the mercy is - when we share Prabhupada's words with many, something the net facilitates.

 

It sounds like maybe you don't live near devotee association and are missing it? Or would like to turn the movement around to the way it was back in the day, but don't know how? Join the club. ha But at least I'm trying. We each have to try. If we ALL tried, it COULD happen.

[Guest guest]

quote:

 

"If we love Krishna, if we love everybody… as Prabhupada did… then we will continue Prabhupada's mission.

 

What are people doing to accomplish that?"

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

 

Why don't you explain in a positive way, what you are doing to help accomplish this?

 

[Guest guest]

I like this thread very much. lets all love krishna!.

Radha praises their reunion:

Beloved, what more shall I say to you?

In life and in death, in birth after birth

you are the lord of my life.

A noose of love binds

my heart to your feet.

My mind fixed on you alone, I have offered you

everything;

in truth, I have become your slave.

In this family, in that house, who is really mine?

Whom can I call my own?

It was bitter cold, and I took refuge

at your lotus feet.

While my eyes blink, and I do not see you,

I feel the heart within me die

 

-lover soul.

 

[Guest guest]

 

"If we love Krishna, if we love everybody… as Prabhupada did… then we will continue Prabhupada's mission.

 

What are people doing to accomplish that?"

 

 

Why don't you explain in a positive way, what you are doing to help accomplish this?

 

 

 

The best thing any one can do is start from with in. First we should change our attitude and humbly chant his name . I guess my personal contribution is I try to chant, be humble and do my prescribed duty the best I can. Also, when time comes I guess we can persuade people to chant his name. Thus being strongly established in perfection.

 

-Lover soul /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Priitaa]

"The members of this Society must always remember that if they stick to the regulative principles and preach sincerely according to the instructions of the acaryas, surely they will have the profound blessings of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and their preaching work will be successful everywhere throughout the world." Adi 7.171

 

"So to develop attraction for Krishna is not difficult, you simply have to hear about Krishna, his activities, his name, his form and his teaching in Bhagavad-gita. Naturally you will develop love for Krishna, because we are all part and parcel of Krishna. The beginning proscess is to Chant Hare Krishna, follow the four regulative principles and associate with devotees, and take Prasadam of Krishna. I think you are now living in the temple of Krishna, so these things will be very easy for you to practice." SP letter to Bhakta Stephen Knapp, Bombay, Dec 18, 75

 

"Your question, "if in the Vaikunthas ecstatic love between Lord Narayana and His devotees and Lord Krishna Consciousness and His devotees on Krishna Loka is qualitatively the same, then what is the advantage of following the path of Krishna Consciousness, whose philosophy austerity is difficult to understand?" Krishna Consciousness philosophy includes the whole Vaisnava philosophy. When we speak Krishna, the very Word means, Rama, Nrsimha, Varaha, and all other similar expansions and incarnations. So Krishna Consciousness includes Vaikuntha consciousness, but Vaikuntha consciousness does not include Krishna Consciousness. Those who are strictly following the rules and regulations of Vaisnava activities, they are promoted to Vaikuntha lokas. But those who have developed a spontaneous love for Krishna, they are promoted to the Krishna Loka. Therefore, although Krishna Consciousness includes Vaikuntha consciousness, pure Krishna Consciousness is spontaneous love for Krishna without any regulative principles. The idea can be explained that a young boy or a young girl are spontaneously attracted, without following any regulative principles previously. When one develops such spontaneous love for God, that is called pure Krishna Consciousness. In our conditioned life, we have forgotten our relationship with God, but by regulative principles, we can make alert the inert activities. Just like a rheumatic crippled man is gradually elevated by some bodily exercises. Similarly, the regulative principles are to make us habituated to our dormant service attitude, but when that is mature, it becomes spontaneous, and that is pure Krishna Consciousness. And such highly elevated Consciousness makes one eligible to enter into the Krishna Loka. The living example for much spontaneous love are exhibited by the Gopis and inhabitants of Vrindaban. We can learn this from Srimad-Bhagavatam how much they love Krishna spontaneously.

Your question, "what is the relationship of sweethearts in Vaikuntha to each other and to Lord Narayana? Is conjugal love, parental affection, and unalloyed friendship there in the Vaikunthas?" No. In Vaikuntha there are two kinds of transcendental mellows, dasya and the lower half of sakya rasa. The lower half of sakhya means friendship in adoration. And the higher half of sakhya rasa is friendship on equal level. So in Vrindaban the reciprocation of transcendental humor is higher than in Vaikuntha. It is there more free and spontaneous without any restriction arranged by yogamaya principle." SP letter to Rupanuga, Montreal, July 3, 1968

 

[Guest guest]

Prita dd, I am curious are you lotusIndia by any chance on any other forum in the past? May be it is a hipi forum?. If not, then I apologize for asking.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

PRIITTA, HARE KRSNA.

 

Thankyou for your measured and careful response. It's nice to hear sincere women speak from the heart.

 

I really don't know what you mean by people saying we can't develop love of God. What… outside of ISKCON? Or without strictness? Then you talk about strictness or austerity making one cold. It can happen. (That's the nature of austerity.) This is a big subject and I see no need to go into it. But I know what you're talking about.

 

"I feel if we start to share Prabhupada's true teachings, at least its a chance to turn things around."

 

This has and always will be the case. But I feel our qualifications and realizations overall are not that important. We have our moments, but after 30 years our society as a whole is still struggling with the basics as well as lust and anger and so on. In most cases, I think people are better off hearing directly from Prabhupada.

 

"Maybe its a shot in the dark, maybe it wont even work, but if we do it then at least we can say we tried. And it works for us because we are never the looser when we preach. "

 

I think this was unnecessary. It certainly doesn't fit me as a reply.

 

"The word 'preaching' has turned into…"

I agree with all this. But there are many exceptions of devotees sharing that sweetness (as you are doing). And your next 2 paragraphs.

 

"I guess what I don't understand is how you can assume everyone who posts (or my post) are devotees who are not trying to understand, not practicing, etc. Or else if this is how you feel, why don't you preach to them in a tangible way? Immediate chastizement usually turns them off. So to nicely preach, IMHO, would be where the mercy is - when we share Prabhupada's words with many, something the net facilitates."

 

I am not coming from that self-righteous position. Can I call it an empirical observation? Certainly, you are impressed in a similar fashion when you say this:

"I agree though, that many do not understand what their responsibilities are. "

Now I was commenting on both the observation and need of preaching. This involves a history of failure. Is that disputed? Have we spread this movement? No we haven't even maintained. We can say anything we want. But what are we doing?

 

You are welcome to make your armchair speculations about me.

 

But don't assume to much. It could be embarrassing.

 

"… but don't know how? Join the club. ha But at least I'm trying. We each have to try. If we ALL tried, it COULD happen."

 

Well what makes you think I don't know how? Many of us know how. We know the process. But all the efforts seem individual for the most part and have little overall effect. Then there is the question of potency and qualifications. Really, after 30 years of yoga and the crumbling of Prabhupada's home, we are kidding ourselves. I am also assuming the responsibility and admitting it… things are not well with our house and home. And what makes a home? What we do in it. We have problems!

 

One of the problems we have is the enthusiasm to spread this Krsna Consciousness. Be tender and sweet if you want, but spread the knowledge to someone outside the club (philosophically speaking… not saying you aren't). But let's be real about our mission, not just our feelings. Let's be real and confront this all-important aspect of our devotional lives.

 

GUEST,

 

"Why don't you explain in a positive way, what you are doing to help accomplish this?"

 

A typical challenge. (Not saying you're typical).

 

Actually, I have already touched on this elsewhere on the board. I see no need to repeat it, nor do I find it tasteful to talk about myself. I spend many hours daily on this goal of spreading KC to the karmis. I am qualified to speak on motivation here.

[Guest guest]

"Devotees cannot give up their egos enough to deal with others"

 

add "neophite" and yu obtain "Neophite devotees cannot give up their egos enough to deal with others."

[Priitaa]

"ta dd, I am curious are you lotusIndia by any chance on any other forum in the past? May be it is a hipi forum?. If not, then I apologize for asking.'

 

---

 

Sorry prabhu, tho no apology necessary. Devotees can be found all over. And who are you? You don't sign your posts. :-)

[Guest guest]

- lover soul sorry, I didn't sign my post. To be honest, I just felt a surge of devotion that I felt when I read lotusindia. Well, that was the reason for me to say that, but anyway thanks .

 

-lover soul.

[Priitaa]

"I really don't know what you mean by people saying we can't develop love of God. What… outside of ISKCON?"

 

Inside.

 

"Or without strictness?"

 

Due to fanaticism.

 

"Then you talk about strictness or austerity making one cold."

 

Right. When one focuses ONLY on austerity and strictness, but shuts down the heart. Especially when they add to it a so called philosophy to make it acceptable and even the Krishna c. thing to do so (in their mind).

 

"It can happen. (That's the nature of austerity.)"

 

Proper austerity, performed with the right type of austerity in accordance what Prabhupada wanted for us, will soften our heart.

 

"This is a big subject and I see no need to go into it. But I know what you're talking about."

 

Thanks.

 

"In most cases, I think people are better off hearing directly from Prabhupada."

 

Agreed.

 

ME: Maybe its a shot in the dark, maybe it wont even work, but if we do it then at least we can say we tried. And it works for us because we are never the looser when we preach.

 

YOU: I think this was unnecessary. It certainly doesn't fit me as a reply.

 

I haven't a clue why you took this personally and thought it was an insult. I did not intend it that way at all. Others read these message boards too, and so if I can answer a question before asked, even a question I may ask myself, that is preaching. I suspect you are a very sensitive person. Well, I am too. lol Join the crowd. :-)

 

 

"You are welcome to make your armchair speculations about me.

 

But don't assume to much. It could be embarrassing."

 

 

Ditto.

 

 

ME:… but don't know how? Join the club. ha But at least I'm trying. We each have to try. If we ALL tried, it COULD happen."

 

YOU: Well what makes you think I don't know how?

 

I don't have my exact words in front of me, but I do remember I was trying to figure out why you were posting with complaints rather than adding some sublime quotes by Prabhupada on love of God. The best I could come up with is what I 'suggested.' I have no problem being wrong, so please share with us why you rather post complaints then verses in a thread specific on love of Krishna. If it is not due to not knowing how to fix the movement, and if you know how, I would like to hear your solution.

 

"Many of us know how.

 

"We know the process."

 

The point wasn't about the process, but ego's, politics, that the house crumbled, and how to fix THAT.

 

"But all the efforts seem individual for the most part"

 

Ummmm Yeah. Whats your lastest preaching engagement? :-)

 

"and have little overall effect. "

 

Nevertheless, this is not about all or none. We simply need is to save one person. Prabhupada felt if he saved even one, they became shining like the Moon. Jayananda comes to mind. And again, even if we do not save anyone, by preaching we become purified.

 

"Then there is the question of potency and qualifications."

 

The potency and qualification doesn't come from us, but from Prabhupada. Its not that first we have to be 100% pure, but rather we get purifed through preaching or sharing Krishna with others.

 

"Really, after 30 years of yoga and the crumbling of Prabhupada's home, we are kidding ourselves. I am also assuming the responsibility and admitting it… things are not well with our house and home. And what makes a home? What we do in it. We have problems!"

 

And there are threads to talk about that. Another one of our problems is we don't know how to be positive and accept the good that IS there.

 

"One of the problems we have is the enthusiasm to spread this Krsna Consciousness. Be tender and sweet if you want, but spread the knowledge to someone outside the club (philosophically speaking… not saying you aren't)."

 

Thanks, because I am.

 

"But let's be real about our mission, not just our feelings. Let's be real and confront this all-important aspect of our devotional lives."

 

I humbly suggest you read some past threads not only from myself, but many others here, before you know who is just speaking on feelings or sentiment and who is not, and who is following properly and who is not, so on and so forth. There are many wonderful devotees here, and even, we dont always agree, but we have learned how to respect each others opinoin.

 

We can waste a lot of time in sepculative debates, or we can just start sharing something of Krishna, anything.

[Priitaa]

 

- lover soul sorry, I didn't sign my post.

 

 

I meant your initiated name.

[Guest guest]

sigh, why does every one ask me that. I will have to make up one.

 

[Guest guest]

"Have we spread this movement? No we haven't even maintained. We can say anything we want. But what are we doing?

I am also assuming the responsibility and admitting it."

______

 

 

Did you ever live in a temple? Are you initiated?

[Guest guest]

Sorry to confuse you, I am

 

again...

 

"lover soul" character.

 

[Guest guest]

Priitta, I can see I'm not appreciated for simply reminding people the "secret" of Krsna Consciousness and how we have failed in that mission.

 

I find the tone of your reply distasteful. God knows it's karma coming back on me. I accept that.

 

As for the rest, your points are valid. But there is duality and dualistic perspectives.

 

My ideas? Time will tell. I'm tired of all this talking!

 

It's not important what you think about me.