What are the qualifications of a diksa guru?

[Guest guest]

 

Some Iskcon leaders' problem is that after some time people leave this organization, like the disidents that left the comunist countries.

Why did they leave? Oh, they were traitors, they have betrayed the Comunist Party, the country and the russian folk.

What was this propaganda?

They could fool all the people for some time.

They could fool some people all the time. but

They cannot fool all the people all the time.

 

 

 

The main reason I cannot sympathize with Narayana Swami followers is that they love to go on the offensive like this - always justifying it by claiming (rightfully or wrongfully) that they are just responding to similar or worse attacks.

 

To me, the mark of a truly advanced devotee is that he bears even unfair criticism. The old adage "when a dog barks at you, don't get down on all fours and bark back" applies here.

 

When I see some devotee being criticized, I immediately can appreciate his position when he remains equipoised and continues his seva. On the other hand, when I see him "barking" back, I can understand that he has not fully controlled anger.

 

By the way, I am neither a part of ISKCON nor Gaudiya Samiti, nor will I ever be. I simply cannot get attracted to a religious organizations which cannot rise about sectarian politics.

 

[Guest guest]

Anadi, honestly, if you are going to debate with people at least you should get the names right.

 

you said: Was Mahaprabhu quareling with Gopala Bhata?

 

But then in your story you tell about the meeting of Mahaprabhu and Vallabhacharya.

 

Also, you didn't answer my question. People from Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti always go out to debate and disturb ISKCON devotees with useless quarrels. Why don't you go and preach to new people instead. Or preach with MUSLIMS or CHRISTIANS. There are six billion people in the world, so why are Vedanta Samiti devotees only bothering to preach against ISKCON, and are not preaching to new people.

[yasodanandana]

"The main reason I cannot sympathize with Narayana Swami followers"

•••do not speak of groups, you do not know all the people of that group.. if there's only one (and i know many) who do not "love to go on the offensive" you are doing aparadha to him... of course this is for everyone coming from any group, vaishnava or not

 

"To me, the mark of a truly advanced devotee is that he bears even unfair criticism."

•••yes, but this is a thing to pretend more from ourselves not from others... if you came to me: "Yaso.. this man have offended me!!" my main concern is to rectify the offence. If i think: "Oh, what a bad devotee.. he's not bearing the offences made to him"... I AM DOING OFFENCE!!"

So, no one have to offend devotees.. the advanced ones who are detached, and the neophytes.

 

"when I see him "barking" back, I can understand that he has not fully controlled anger."

•••as i have said..to judge the advancement of people, this is not our main business

 

" I simply cannot get attracted to a religious organizations which cannot rise about sectarian politics."

••••a devotee is not attracted or attracted by an organization, a devotee is

attracted by a spiritual master... when we speak about organizations and not of single people sectarism is very close.. so, if you think that prabhupada has to be studied and worshipped, there's no need to put attention to some (non)disciples who have done bad things.. the same for Narayana Maharaja, Jayapataka Maharaja, Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaja, Satsvarupa Maharaja etc.

 

my point is that we deal with bahktas, gurus, vaishnavas...... individuals.. not with brands, groups, sects, boundaries, religion, nations.. so we have to be sorry when a follower of that guru is offended and also the one of the other guru.. and we have to go for association with devotees, not with organizations

[yasodanandana]

"People from Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti always go out to debate and disturb ISKCON devotees with useless quarrels. Why don't you go and preach to new people instead. "

••••the first thing is that i know many people from VS who do not disturb IskCon... etc.. etc... so you are wrong.. and, as a principle, there's nothing bad to preach to other vaishnavas..

so, in abstract, there's nothing bad if i come to you "prabhu, leave yur guru, he's not pure".. (and i demonstrate)

So, also this actions have to be judged one by one (is it true? wha is the motivation of who's criticizing? he is informed or simply sectarian? is he acting with love or simply wants to support his team? has he respected the time/place/circumstance principle?)

 

In itself to preach at vaishnavas is not wrong, we have only to judge if that singular preaching is true and if it is a preaching or propaganda.

 

we cannot be ourselves sectarian to fight the sectarism

[anadi]

To me, the mark of a truly advanced devotee is that he bears even unfair criticism. The old adage "when a dog barks at you, don't get down on all fours and bark back" applies here.

 

When I see some devotee being criticized, I immediately can appreciate his position when he remains equipoised and continues his seva. On the other hand, when I see him "barking" back, I can understand that he has not fully controlled anger.

 

 

I understand and I appreciate your shanta mood.

 

Let see this point:

 

My guru is like Rupa and Sanatana. When somebody provoked him, he says ok you are right. But he is tellíng his disciples, no, no, that person was not right.

Than he explains the disciples why was he wrong.

 

Than that person which made the false allegations go and say I defeated Rupa and Sanatana, you know the story.

Rupa and Sanatana didn't bother even to hear any allegations.

But Jiva Gosvami who was their disciple did not stay aside.

No, he tore to pieces the allegations of that person.

That person was a gentleman and aknowledged his defeat.

 

So it is the duty of the disciple to defend guru and bhakti.

 

In one point you are right alltogether because i should not have said anything about their "traitor propaganda" in the name of their param guru, and trying to fool the people.

 

But still pure bhakti should be promoted, and all these false concepts must be uprooted.

[yasodanandana]

"So it is the duty of the disciple to defend guru and bhakti."

…………yes, but not on the "team" (iskcon, chaitanya mission, muslims, christians..) plane.. this is kanista

[anadi]

So it is the duty of the disciple to defend guru and bhakti."

…………yes, but not on the "team" (iskcon, chaitanya mission, muslims, christians..) plane.. this is kanista

 

 

 

This is a most good point!

but In this connection kaniSta appears like a dirty word and it shouldn't.

[yasodanandana]

yes... there's nothing bad in absolute in beeing kanista, but why not to search to be madyam? and madyam means discrimination

 

kanista "all italians are stupid"

madyam "there's some stupid and some intelligent... stupids are A, B, F... intelligents are C, D, G

 

before destroying the sinful cities sodoma and gomorra god is ready to stop if there's only ONE MORAL man in these cities, so if in iskcon, vedanta samhiti, caitanya mission there's only ONE serious devote in each organization, if we go on destroying we go to hell... and chanted rounds, studied books, performed austerities, pious activities done, dandavats, jayas, will not save us

 

(moral: latin=probus.. sanscrit= prabhu)

[Yashoda_dd]

Let us say for the debate sake:

I spent few years serving in iskcon on few continents, to my very best: not asking for any reward accept for the blessings of vaisnavas - that was my life and soul.

 

But after few years of chanting, reading and serving - I found myself souranded by very strange authorities who actually did not care for my welfare. I do not care if they are from Mars, Sri Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti or from some time from the past or from the future.

 

I FOUND MYSELF IN THE MIDST OF PEOPLE WHO LOOKED LIKE VAISNAVAS, BUT THEY DID NOT WANT ME TO ADVANCE IN MY SPIRITUAL LIFE.

 

So I asked - may I go to listen from advanced Vaisnava like Narayana Maharaja? - and answer was NO - all what you need is in Srila Prabhupada's books.

 

So I looked in Srila Prabhupada's books and - what a surprise - on almost every page there is a very clear instruction: GO TO A PURE DEVOTEE OF THE LORD AND SERVE HIM. THERE IS NO SPIRITUAL LIFE WITHOUT A BLESSING OF A HIGHLY ADVANCED VAISNAVA.

 

So I left the society of people who actually did not care for association of a pure devotee but for name-giving, back-biting and politics - DO NOT GO TO NARAYANA MAHARAJA! He may tell you something that may change your heart.

 

My dear devotees - that is the most important thing. Change of a heart. The hell with big marbel buildings, lacks of rupees and silk dhoties: we need tears in our eyes while we bow down to a pure devotee with a very thick straw in our teeth (or keyboard, whatever).

 

Your servant, Ydd

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

There are some very senior Vaishnavas in ISKCON and if someone goes on a campaign to criticize "all the leaders of ISKCON" because of problems they might have had with SOME leaders of ISKCON, then this is Vaishnava aparadha.

 

As an example, this page below gives details of a festival of ISKCON devotees where the special guest of honour is a devotee who has proven himself to be a very capable Spiritual Master and representative of Srila Prabhupada. I am talking about HH Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Swami.

 

http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat/cat/hinduism/66737/0/collapsed/5/o/1

 

HH Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Swami is a Guru within ISKCON, and he is highly regarded by other devotees outside ISKCON too.

 

If someone feels they must leave ISKCON, then that will be an act of free will. But as I said before, people in Gaudiya Vedanta Samity are always trying to get devotees to leave ISKCON.

 

 

[yasodanandana]

i can understand very well, you have well done avoiding the association of the offenders... but do not make the same error..

 

these leaders are offenders because they say that who is outside iskcon is not to associate with and followed if we want to be in the prabhupada's lineage

 

you do not make the same mistake saying that in iskcon there's no vaishnavas... simple

 

i understand, i am your brother, i give this opinion with my heart, let us win sectarisms in a vaishnava way!! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

if we are happy, serious and effulgent, others will follow

 

(my spiritual master, srila bhaktivaibhava puri goswami maharaja says that these quarrels are a sign of the glory of srila prabhupada, if we had not prabhupada coming all over the world to spread the holy name... we'd had no quarrels.... but even NO HOLY NAME!!)

[yasodanandana]

you are rightly against "all leadrs of iskcon are bad"

 

but you are saying "gaudya vedanta samithi is always to find faults in iskcon"

 

an offence answered with anoither offence.. are all devotees from iskcon not serious? are all devotees disciples of narayana maharaja not serious?

so why we speak of groups if all the members of a vaishnava group are obviously not at the same level of consciousness and behaviour?

 

<font color="red">

(please forgive me if i appear too arsh and aggressive, i'd want to be much more sweet and diplomatic ... but having not a good english i have not too much instruments to express exactly my feelings.. so, please, prabhu, accept my prostrated obeisances)</font color>

[Guest guest]

VNN is a site maintained by devotees who are supporters or members of Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti. VNN has published many, many articles criticizing and attacking ISKCON. This is aggressive. Anadi says he is preaching to ISKCON devotees. He wants them to follow Narayana Maharaja. Also you said

quote:<blockquote>

the first thing is that i know many people from VS who do not disturb IskCon... etc.. etc... so you are wrong.. and, as a principle, there's nothing bad to preach to other vaishnavas..

so, in abstract, there's nothing bad if i come to you "prabhu, leave yur guru, he's not pure".. (and i demonstrate)

</blockquote>

Even you are writing to say it is OK to come to ISKCON devotees and say "prabhu, leave yur guru"

 

But then you and anadi and VNN all complain if someone says anything against your guru. There are things I can say about your guru which are not insults, just facts, but Admin5 will delete it because Admin5 does not want to see criticism of devotees. But still, it is a fact that many devotees think your guru is not teaching the same teachings as Srila Prabhupada. Better not to engage in these type of debates. Better if you debate with Christians or Muslims instead of publishing VNN articles.

[Guest guest]

 

So it is the duty of the disciple to defend guru and bhakti.

 

 

 

There is always some rationalization that can be given. But the point is, every minute spent indulging in sectarian politics is a minute not spent in speaking Krishna-katha.

 

Some time ago I happened upon the Gaudiya Samiti website. Thinking it would be full of stunning philosophical realizations, I very naively opened that webpage.

 

Instead, the entire front page was full of articles by people and their problems with ISKCON. There was not even one percent Krishna-conscious philosophy on that page. Not surprisingly, I never visited it again.

 

Bottom line: I'm looking to associate with people who can behave themselves and talk philosophy. If they have more taste for politics than philosophy, then I'm going to go elsewhere.

 

 

 

[yasodanandana]

"Even you are writing to say it is OK to come to ISKCON devotees and say "prabhu, leave yur guru""

 

prabhu, do not joke with these subjects, i am not saying that everyone has to go in iskcon and say "leave iskcon".. i am saying that as a principle is not bad if one says to a friend devotee, taking this big responsability, with the purpose to save him: " leave this fake guru.."

 

to help devotees to get out from illusion is a very dear service to krsna and prabhupada..

 

so,,, read more carefully, i have said a principle, not that anyone has to go to iskcon to insult people.. if someone insult a pure devotee, iskcon , non iskcon the way to hell is open

 

so, please think about more seriously before putting insults for iskcon in my mouth

 

"then you and anadi and VNN "

••••there's not a group like that, i have nothing to do with anadi and vnn (what do you want by me?)

 

"There are things I can say about your guru which are not insults, just facts"

••••yes, you can say only beautiful facts for the last disciple of bhaktisiddhanta living in this earth, intimate friend and companion of srila prabhupada.. so be careful. You are clearly trying to insult me because you wrongly think that i have offended IskCon.. being not true, please rectify your behaviour

 

"Admin5 will delete it because Admin5 does not want to see criticism of devotees."

•••••and you like criticisms of devotees?

 

" But still, it is a fact that many devotees think your guru is not teaching the same teachings as Srila Prabhupada"

•••••better to stop offences.. even if, maybe, you think that i am disciple of another:D

 

" instead of publishing VNN articles. "

••••i do not publish any article and i have nothing to do with VNN, Vedanta Samhiti and so on...maybe you have exchanged me for another devotee.

 

excuses accepted /images/graemlins/smile.gif:D

[Guest guest]

I second this post,

Very nice prabhu,I want your kind of asociation,

Pure Bhakti means pure Krishna Katha not pure politics,

Hare Krishna

-----------------

 

There is always some rationalization that can be given. But the point is, every minute spent indulging in sectarian politics is a minute not spent in speaking Krishna-katha.

 

Some time ago I happened upon the Gaudiya Samiti website. Thinking it would be full of stunning philosophical realizations, I very naively opened that webpage.

Instead, the entire front page was full of articles by people and their problems with ISKCON. There was not even one percent Krishna-conscious philosophy on that page. Not surprisingly, I never visited it again.

 

Bottom line: I'm looking to associate with people who can behave themselves and talk philosophy. If they have more taste for politics than philosophy, then I'm going to go elsewhere.

 

-------------------------

 

" This chanting should go on. Instead of meetings, resolutions,

dissolutions, revolutions and then no solutions, there should be chanting." /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

- Srila Prabhupada

[anadi]

Nice criticizing of the Gaudya Vedanta Samhiti.

There is not Hari Katha there?

 

You are a liar.

And I hope from all my heart that your nose will melt!

 

Read this please

 

BALADEVA-TATTVA

 

Sripad Bhaktivedanta Aranya Maharaja

 

 

 

12 August 2003

 

Vrndavana, Rupa-Sanatana Gaudiya Math

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Srila Gurudeva ordered me to speak a few words on Sri Baladeva-Tattva. So taking the dust from his lotus feet on my head, I will try to delineate how Sri Baladeva Prabhu has been glorified by our Guru-vargas. Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvamipada wrote:

 

 

 

radha-krsna aiche sada eka-i svarupa

 

lila-rasa asvadite dhare dui-rupa

 

(CC Adi 4.98)

 

 

 

By svarupa Radha and Krsna are one, yet to relish the taste, the mellows, of pastimes, They have assumed two forms. Similarly, as Radha and Krsna are non-different from each other, Sri Baladeva Prabhu is non-different from Krsna. Krsna Himself has become Baladeva Prabhu to relish so many ecstatic loving moods. “Kesava! Dhrta-haladhara-rupa! Jaya jagadisa! Hare.” Kesava—Krsna Himself, Sri Brajendra-nandana Syamasundara, Gopinatha, Radha-Ramana, Radha-Kanta—has become Sri Baladeva Prabhu.

 

 

 

In Vrndavana Sri Krsna’s original form is called svayam-rupa, and it has its svayam-prakasa manifestations. These svayam-prakasa manifestations are of two types: prabhava prakasa and vaibhava prakasa. When Krsna is performing rasa-lila, standing next to Srimati Radhika, He is svayam-rupa. And the Krsna who dances with so many other gopis is svayam-prakasa. When Krsna manifests Himself in so many forms which are all identical to Him in mood and in appearance, that is called the prabhava prakasa aspect of svayam prakasa. But when Krsna manifests His own form with a slight variation in complexion or in mood, that manifestation is called vaibhava-prakasa aspect of svayam prakasa. This is the identity of Sri Baladeva Prabhu. The vaibhava-prakasa of Krsna is not different from Krsna, but has some speciality in complexion and mood. What is the speciality in complexion? Krsna is syama color and Baladeva Prabhu has a fair complexion. Sri Krsna has sevya abhimana—He is visaya vigraha—and Baladeva Prabhu has sevaka abhimana in relation to Sri Krsna. He wants to serve Krsna in all ways.

 

 

 

When we examine the mood of Baladeva Prabhu, we see that He has sankula rati. There are many different types of rati, or stayi-bhava. They are sri-krsna-visayini-rati—Krsna is the object of that rati: santa-rati, dasya-rati, sakhya-rati, vatsalya-rati and madhurya-rati. This rati has many types, such as mukhya-rati, gauna-rati, parartha-rati, svartha-rati. One kind is called sankula-rati. Sankula-rati is congested rati, meaning that more than one type of mukhya-rati is manifested at the same time. So the stayibhava of Sri Baladeva Prabhu is sankula-rati, because in His heart His prominent mood toward Krsna has a combination of dasya, sakhya and also vatsalya mood because He is the older brother of Krsna.

 

 

 

So Baladeva Prabhu has manifested in many ways in order to serve Krsna. In Braja He is Rohini-nandana Baladeva, but in Mathura and Dvaraka He is Sankarsana, that is, Vasudeva-nandana or Devaki-nandana Baladeva. There He is called Mula Sankarsana, and from this Mula Sankarsana comes Maha Sankarsana, and from Maha Sankarsana comes Maha Visnu, and from Maha Visnu comes Sesa. So in all of these ways Baladeva is serving. He is so eager to serve that He will serve in santa-rasa in the form of the dhama and the paraphernalia of all of Sesayi-tattva in the various realms of Braja, Mathura, Dvaraka and Vaikuntha. He is serving in dasya-rasa, sakhya-rasa and vatsalya-rasa, and even in madhurya-rasa He serves as Ananga Manjari. Baladeva Prabhu is so eager to serve Krsna in all ways that He even becomes His paraphernalia and ornaments. In the form of the earrings on Krsna’s ears He is always affectionately kissing the cheeks of Krsna. There is no end to Baladeva Prabhu’s desire to render service to Krsna.

 

 

 

Baladeva Prabhu has performed many pastimes, but one pastime is extremely difficult to understand. What is that? When Krsna left Vrndavana and was staying in Dvaraka, Baladeva Prabhu came from Dvaraka to Braja-mandala on a mission to pacify the separation feelings of the residents of Vrndavana. At that time Baladeva Prabhu went to Rama Ghata where He performed rasa-lila. Srila Gurudeva has asked me to tell why He did this. I will attempt to explain what I have heard from the lotus mouth of Srila Gurudeva. In addition Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura has written a very extensive commentary on this subject in his tika on Sri Caitanya Bhagavat.

 

 

 

In Gita Govinda Jayadeva Gosvamipada has glorified Baladeva Prabhu:

 

 

 

vahasi vapusi visade vasanam jaladabham

 

hala-hati-bhiti-milita-yamunabham

 

kesava! dhrta-haladhara-rupa! jaya jagadisa! hare

 

 

 

When Baladeva Prabhu performed rasa-lila in Braja, He took His plough and summoned Yamuna, but she would not come. Baladeva Prabhu became angry and, taking His plough, began to drag Yamuna. You can see a big curve in the flow of Kalindi at that place called Rama Ghata. Srila Gurudeva, in his tika on Gita Govinda, has explained that in this pastime Baladeva Prabhu is in the mood of dhira-lalita-nayaka. Why? Dhira-lalita-nayaka has some qualities:

 

 

 

vidagdho nava-tarunyah

 

parihasa-visaradah

 

niscinto dhira-lalitah

 

syat prayah preyasi-vasah

 

(Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 2.1.230)

 

 

 

Especially syat prayah preyasi-vasah—He is controlled by the love of His beloveds. In the incarnation of Lord Ramacandra He has tolerated great separation and many problems for Himself and His beloved Sita, because He is in the mood of dhirodatta-nayaka. But here Baladeva Prabhu is in the mood of dhira-lalita-nayaka. He is controlled by the mood of His beloveds; therefore He cannot tolerate even the slightest fatigue that they feel. In glorifying Baladeva Prabhu, Jayadeva Gosvami has expressed that Baladeva Prabhu wants to bring the whole Yamuna so that they will be refreshed and their fatigue will go away, because He cannot tolerate even the appearance of perspiration on the brow of His beloveds.

 

 

 

So why has Baladeva Prabhu performed this rasa-lila? Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura has explained the identity of the gopis with whom Baladeva Prabhu was dancing. This is a point of great controversy. I will try to explain the vicaras, the deliberations on the subject, one after another, and in the end present the visesa vicara, the special conclusion, of Srila Gurudeva. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura mentioned that at the time of Sankacuda-badha, holi lila was going on at Govardhana. During that pastime some gopis were standing very far away and were looking at Baladeva Prabhu. Krsna Himself glanced at Baladeva Prabhu to indicate to Him that those gopis had some special attachment for Baladeva. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura commented that Baladeva Prabhu performed rasa-lila with those gopis who were looking at Him. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura has given another explanation. When Krsna left Vrndavana for Mathura, there were many gopis in Braja who were not old enough to meet with Krsna in rasa-lila. Later, when Baladeva Prabhu returned to Vrndavana, He did rasa-lila with them, fulfilling their desire now that they were old enough to take part in such a lila.

 

 

 

These explanations have been give for loka-sangraha, for the general people who are in ignorance of rasa-tattva. They cannot understand what is rasa-lila and how Baladeva Prabhu can also perform rasa-lila with Krsna’s gopis. Why does Baladeva Prabhu perform rasa-lila with Krsna’s gopis? This is His service. Ordinarily in this world when the prakrt nayaka and nayika—the mundane hero and heroine—meet together, they do so for their own happiness and their own pleasure. But who is Baladeva Prabhu? He is Krsna Himself. He is abhinna-prakasa, non-different from Krsna, but with sevaka abhimana. He is composed entirely of sevaka abhimana, the identification that He is Krsna’s servant. Therefore everything that He does is for the service of Krsna. So if Baladeva Prabhu has performed rasa-lila with Krsna’s gopis, the idea should never enter into the mind that Baladeva Prabhu has any bhoga-vrtti, any enjoying tendency. He has done this for the sake of Krsna’s service in order to pacify the gopis’ separation.

 

 

 

There is another visesa vicara, special deliberation. In this world if male and female will meet together and enjoy lusty activities, which are actually the cause of unlimited suffering, then this will be a great sin and they will have to go to hell. But we see that in the heavenly planets, the residents of Svarga—male and female—freely meet together to enjoy amorous pastimes, but they do not incur any sin. Why not? Because they do not have a gross body. Those who have a gross body will become entangled in sin by engaging in amorous affairs with many partners. But in Svarga-loka there is no restriction because the people have a different constitution. So in Svarga there is no sin in this. Then what to speak of the higher planets—Maha-loka, Jana-loka, Tapa-loka and Satya-loka. And what to speak of beyond that—Ayodhya, Dvaraka, Mathura. And what to speak of Vraja! There cannot be any inebriety, any impurity, in Baladeva Prabhu’s meeting with Krsna’s gopis.

 

 

 

Furthermore, Srila Jiva Gosvami has given a very special deliberation on this subject. He explained that there are three types of prema: viveka-sunya prema, visrambha prema and utkantha-mayi prema. Viveka-sunya prema means that love which is devoid of discrimination. This is seen in the trees and the cows of Vrndavana. When Krsna left to go to Mathura and Dvaraka, the cows and trees have no conception how long He had been gone. They do not know what day of the week it is, or whether Krsna has been gone for one month, two months, three months, five years. They cannot discriminate. Furthermore, even when Krsna was in Vrndavana, the trees did not see Him every day. One day He would go to Talavan, another day to Kamyavan, then to Vrndavana or Bandhirvana. They would only see Krsna from time to time. Those who have no discrimination cannot understand where Krsna is going or when they will see Him again. So they may feel some separation but not so high.

 

 

 

The next type is called visrambha prema. This is found in the hearts of those who have sakhya rasa. The sakhas feel great separation from Krsna, and in that separation they even have sphurti, vipralambha visphurti, and they see Krsna. Yet those in sakhya rasa will be satisfied by this sphurti and will think, “Oh, Krsna is here today. I have gone cow-grazing with Him.” And they become so much satisfied with this sphurti. In Sri Gopala Campu Srila Jiva Gosvamipada explained that Krsna sent a message from Dvaraka to the residents of Vrndavana saying, “I am going to Kuruksetra. Those of you who are not satisfied with My sphurti should come and meet Me there. The others should stay behind.” So the husbands of the gopis stayed behind and took care of Vraja along with the cowherd boys who had sraddha in Krsna’s sphurti-maya milana, that is, confidence in meeting with Krsna in a vision.

 

 

 

The cowherd boys can be consoled somewhat, but those who have utkantha-mayi prema—those situated in vatsalya-rasa and especially madhurya-rasa—are full of eagerness. They cannot be pacified by anything at all. So when Balaldeva Prabhu came to Vrndavana, He did rasa-lila with Krsna’s gopis in order to pacify their separation. What is this rasa-lila? It is not anything bad or immoral. Rasa-lila includes singing, dancing, playing musical instruments, van vihara (wandering in the forest), jala krida (playing in the water), hindola-lila (swing pastimes), and other such activities. These are the pastimes that Baladeva Prabhu performed with Krsna’s gopis, thus trying to pacify their separation. For a moment their separation was pacified, but then immediately afterwards their separation increased more and more. The flames of separation went higher than ever before, and all gopis were weeping in separation: ha natha ramana prestha kvasi kvasi maha-bhuja. “O Krsna, where are You?”

 

 

 

When Baladeva saw that He was completely unable to appease the gopis’ sorrow, He Himself became overwhelmed in separation. He began to weep bitter tears and called out, “O Krsna! O Krsna! Why did You leave Vrndavana?” When Baladeva Prabhu was completely absorbed in separation from Krsna, His complexion turned blackish. This is why here in Vraja Mandala there are famous deities of Baladeva Prabhu—in Dauji, Mahavan, Madhuvan—that are black—to remind us of this very pastime.

 

 

 

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura had explained that Baladeva manifested millions of forms upon seeing the very high separation of the gopis. In each form He took one gopi to a kunja, and then He cried out for Krsna, “O Krsna, please come to Vrndavana.” Then immediately, Krsna manifested millions of forms and took the hand of each gopi and entered each kunja where He fulfilled their hearts’ desires to serve Him.

 

 

 

In this way we see that when the gopis’ separation was so high, Baladeva Prabhu called Krsna, who appeared there at once. Therefore this is an example of how Baladeva Prabhu is akhanda guru-tattva. Why? Because when the disciple is doing sadhana-bhajana and serving His Gurudeva for a long time, his heart becomes purified and sambandha-jnana is awakening. Then he becomes full of eagerness and in a desperate mood of separation he prays:

 

 

 

vaisnavera avedane krsna doyamoya

 

e heno pamara prati ha’bena sadoya

 

 

 

Seeing the intense desire of his disciple, Sri Gurudeva prays to Radha and Krsna. Then he invites the very sweet sri vigraha of Radha-Krsna Yugala to manifest in the heart of the disciple. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado yasyaprasadan na gatih kuto’pi. There is no other method for success in spiritual life.

 

 

 

In this way we offer our sraddha puspanjali at the lotus feet of Sri Baladeva Prabhu and pray to Him to sprinkle His mercy. Without the strength coming from Sri Baladeva Prabhu in the form of His manifestation, Sri Gurudeva, one can never become strong enough to get free from the clutches of maya and become fully determined in the service of the lotus feet of Sri Radha and Krsna. Hena nitai vine bhai, radha-krsna paite nai.

 

 

 

Gaura premanande!

 

Read this please,

 

VYASA-PUJA FESTIVAL FOR SRILA PRABHUPADA

[A Report]

On the mornings of August 21 and 22, 2003 Parama-pujyapada Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja led a festival in honor of the divine Appearance Day of Srila Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja.

 

The first day of the festival coincided with Sri Nandotsava, the day after Janmastami, when Nanda Maharaja and Srimati Yasodamaiyi celebrated the birthday of their son, Bhagavan Sri Krsna. On that first morning, in addition to calling on some of Srila Prabhupada's senior disciples to offer their sraddha pushpanjalis (offering of flowers in the form of words of glorification) Srila Maharaja himself spoke about his relationship with Srila Prabhupada, starting from 1946 when they first met. He began by saying that Srila Prabhupada's greatness was indicated on the very auspicious day of His birth - Sri Nandotsava. He then explained how the nitya-siddha associate of Sri Sri Radha and Krsna, Srila Prabhupada, played the role of a conditioned soul gradually advancing in bhakti. He described Srila Prabhupada's business successes and then failures, and his moving to a small broken down room on the bank of the Yamuna when his wife ordered him to leave the house. He also described how he had brought Srila Prabhupada and his luggage, which consisted of a few Vedic scriptures, from that small room to his Sri Kesavaji Gaudiya Matha in Mathura and arranged a room for him right next to his own. Prabhupada's room has since been rebuilt to become the altar room of Sri Sri Radha-Vinodabihariji, as well as the deity of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu who was donated to the Matha in the 1950's by Srila Prabhupada himself, and who has been cared for in great pomp up to the present day. Srila Maharaja explained how he and his brahamacaris then saw to all of Prabhupada's needs so that he would be able to devote his full time to his writing and preaching.

 

He explained how he himself, along with his own Guru Maharaja, Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Gosvami Maharaja, enthused Srila Prabhupada to take sannyasa and how he himself performed the sannyasa ceremony. He explained how, when Srila Prabhupada first came to America in 1966, Prabhupada wrote to him and invited him to come and preach with him. Srila Maharaja was not able to come at that time, but he came to preach with him to the West thirty years later (in 1996).

 

Srila Maharaja shared with the three hundred devotees present how Srila Prabhupada wrote to him such letters that he never wrote to others. For example, he wrote to Srila Maharaja in September 1966: "Our relationship is certainly based on spontaneous love. That is why there is no chance of us forgetting one another. By the mercy of Guru and Gauranga, may everything be auspicious for you. This is my constant prayer. From the first time I saw you I have been your constant well-wisher. At his first sight of me, Srila Prabhupada (Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura) also saw me with such love. It was in my very first darsana of Srila Prabhupada that I learned how to love."

 

He said that nowadays some persons are trying to propagate a false idea that it was his holiness Tamal Krsna Gosvami who gave Srila Prabhupada Samadhi, but facts are facts. It was Srila Maharaja himself who was given that honor by Srila Prabhupada.

 

Because August 21 was Sri Nandotsava and the devotees at Sri Kesavaji Gaudiya Matha were going to feed tens of thousands of persons that day in honor of Sri Nanda Baba having done so on the day of His son's birth, the class ended at 8:00 am, at which time Srila Maharaja and the assembled devotees performed arati and offered pushpanjali to Srila Prabhupada. Srila Maharaja offered each article of worship and then passed those articles on to Srila Prabhupada's disciples to offer. After that everyone honored the large feast prepared in Prabhupada's honor and sponsored by Pujyapada Sajjana Maharaja and Srimati Vrndavana Vilasani dasi. After that and throughout the day, bhagavat maha-prasada was served to all the visitors.

 

 

 

On the next day, August 22, just after morning bhajanas, Srila Maharaja resumed the Vyasa-puja celebration. That celebration had a special interesting touch, in that Srila Maharaja, the speakers' siksa-guru, repeatedly taught them and all others how to properly glorify their diksa-guru and how to properly represent him. He began by saying, "Now we continue the glorification of Parama-pujyapada Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja. Some disciples have already spoken and I would like that others speak today." Before the first speaker began his glorification he was offering his vandana (prayers), as is customary, to Srila Prabhupada his diksa-guru, and to Srila Maharaja his siksa guru. While he was in the midst of saying his prayers, Srila Maharaja interrupted him and said, "First fix the microphone and then do vandana, or first do vandana and then fix the microphone. Don't try to do both at the same time." As the speaker continued his prayers, Srila Maharaja interrupted him again and said, "It is not proper etiquette to look here and there while doing vandana. Put your head down somewhat, remember your Gurudeva, and in that way do vandana."

 

The speaker began his talk by relating the history of Srila Prabhupada from his very young childhood, when he was nicknamed Kachori-mukhi, because he so much liked kachoris. He also began telling of a mango pastime of Srila Prabhupada in his young childhood, at which time Srila Maharaja again interrupted him and said, "I don't want to hear about mangos and kachoris. Try to go deep and tell the devotees about the special teachings given by your Gurudeva." The speaker then began describing how Srila Prabhupada met his own Guru Maharaja, Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, who told him to preach in the Western world. Srila Maharaja interrupted him again and said, "But what was that message he told him to preach?" In other words Srila Maharaja was insisting on a presentation of Srila Prabhupada's siddhanta, the conclusive truths about bhakti that he mercifully gave the world.

 

After some minutes Srila Maharaja called on a second speaker, and in the midst of his vandana Srila Maharaja reached out from his vyasasana, took the speakers large cloth bag off his shoulder and said, "I want to help you with your bag." Srila Maharaja then placed that cloth bag on his own vyasasana. Then, in the midst of that second speaker's trying to explain some of the philosophy that Prabhupada was preaching to the fallen souls, Srila Maharaja again interrupted and said, "But what did he say about jiva-tattva? If the jiva is part and parcel of Bhagavan Sri Krsna, why did he turn away from Him? As the speaker tried to explain that the tiny jiva is forgetful, Srila Maharaja again interrupted and, desiring that the speaker discuss the truth of the matter - that the jiva in this world never fell from Goloka Vrndavana, that he had never previously seen Lord Krsna before coming to this world, that he is a manifestation of Sri Krsna's tatastha-sakti and is manifest from the tatastha region in between the spiritual and material worlds - Srila Maharaja then said, "Why do all the jivas forget? Where was he first situated? Was he with Sri Visnu or Krsna Bhagavan - or not? He is cit-vastu, transcendental, so why did he forget? What did your Gurudeva speak on this subject?" The speaker replied to his best capacity, and in the midst of that, Srila Maharaja again interrupted him and said, "Don't immediately talk about gopi-prema. Why are the jivas suffering? What is the remedy? You should know all this."

 

After some minutes, Srila Maharaja called on the next speaker, Srimati Manjari dasi, and requested her to speak loudly. Just as she was about to begin her glorification Srila Maharaja called out to Srila Prabhupada's disciple Srimati Bhadra dasi who was sitting in the back row and said, "I want your bead bag. Please give me your bead bag." Extremely nervous that Srila Maharaja might call on her to speak that morning, on the way to the temple she had not been conscious of what she is normally conscious of, and had unknowingly dropped her bead bag. Now she said, "I can't. I dropped it in the street while I was walking here." Then Srila Maharaja said, "Oh, you don't care about your beads?" She said, "I do, I don't know what happened." Then Srila Maharaja said, "You should try to discover where your beads have gone, and then give them to me." [As it turned out, while Srila Maharaja, accompanied by his disciples, was on his morning walk an hour earlier, one of his party found them in the street and gave it to Srila Maharaja who had kept them for her, and then he gave them to her after class.]

 

Manjari dasi gave a very nice speech in glorification of Srila Prabhupada, in which she explained the verse by Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami in relation to Srila Prabhupada's glories:

 

nama-srestham manum api saci-putram atra svarupam / rupam tasyagrajam uru-purim mathurim gosthavatim

 

radha-kundam giri-varam aho! radhika-madhavasam / prapto yasya prathita-krpaya sri gurum tam nato 'smi

 

["I am fully indebted to Sri Gurudeva, because he is giving me so many things. He is giving me the holy name containing the highest form of thought, aspiration, and ideal, and he is giving me the service of that great savior, the son of Mother Saci, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is like the golden mountain indicating the way to krsna-lila. And Sri Gurudeva has brought me to Svarupa Damodara, who is Lalita-devi, Srimati Radhika's closest friend. Then he has brought me to Sri Rupa, who was ordered to distibute rasa-tattva, and then to Sri Sanatana Gosvami, who adjusts our position in relation to raganuga-bhakti. Gurudeva has brought me to Mathura Mandala, where Radha and Govinda have their pastimes, where the forest, hills and every creeper, shrub and grain of sand are uddipana (stimuli) to help me remember Radha and Govinda. He has given me Radha-kunda and Giriraja Govardhana, and aho! He has given me assurance of all these, so I bow my head with deep respect unto his lotus feet." (Sri Mukta-carita, Raghunatha dasa Gosvami)]

 

Srila Maharaja then called on Sripad Atul Krsna dasa, who gave a powerful talk, proving very succinctly that Srila Prabhupada's siddha-sarira (spiritual body in his eternal service to Sri Sri Radha Krsna) in Goloka Vrndavana is not that of sakhya-rasa. In other words Srila Prabhupada is not a cowherd boy there. Sripad Atul Krsna dasa said that some persons declare that Srila Prabhupada is a cowherd boy because he established Lord Nityananda Prabhu for worship by devotees and often prayed to him. He gave the example of Sri Nityananda Prabhu putting His lotus feet on the head of Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami as described in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta. Being very pleased with Srila Dasa Gosvami, Lord Nityanada took away all his obstacles and he was soon able to leave home and have the association of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Srila Raghunatha Dasa Gosvami, in his siddha-sarira, is a manjari, a maidservant of Srimati Radhika. Similarly Srila Prabhupada, who has the full mercy of Sri Nityananda Raya and is a follower of Sri Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, is in that same eternal service.

 

Atul Krsna dasa then succinctly proved that Srila Prabhupada never preached nor is he in the opinion that the jiva fell from Goloka Vrndavana. After his talk, Srila Maharaja announced, "I want preachers like this prabhu. He summarized everything I have taught about your Prabhupada. He did not speak about mangos and kachoris. He has preached that the jiva did not come from Goloka Vrndavana and that your Srila Prabhupada is not in sakhya-rasa but that he is a follower of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. You should all preach in this spirit. Try to have this bold spirit of preaching."

 

Srila Maharaja next called on Srimati Vrndavana Vilasini dasi who glorified Srila Prabhupada's ability to perform the miracle he performed because, although it appeared that he was alone, that he boarded the Scindia steamship alone and got off the ship alone, actually he was always with Sri Sri Radha and Krsna and all Their associates. Since he was always chanting suddha-vraja-nama and radha-nama he had all the power of those holy names and personalities behind him. She also gave some examples of Srila Prabhupada's deep love for the fallen souls of the world, and included her own personal experience of his love.

 

After expressing appreciation of her offering, Srila Maharaja called on Pujyapada Bhaktivedanta Padmanabha Maharaja who shared with the assembled devotees Srila Prabhupada's ever-insistence that his disciples and followers continually preach and not be selfish. He quoted Srila Prabhupada as saying this is the best service his followers can do. He said that some devotees argue that, "I haven't realized anything yet, so how can I preach?" Padmanabha Maharaja said that this was not Srila Prabhupada's mood. Prabhupada wanted that everyone preach according to his realization, despite how much or how little realization the devotee may have.

 

After Pujyapada Padmanabha Maharaja's talk, Srila Maharaja was inspired to speak on the same subject and said, "Parama-pujyapada Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja realized the sufferings of the jivas and, weeping, he came to the West. We also have not established our Mathas (temples) for sleeping or making merry. Some persons like to simply take prasadam and sleep, but I am like Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja and my Gurudeva, Param-pujyapada Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Gosvami Maharaja. When I first moved into the Matha and had been living there for only three months, my Guru Maharaja told me to go out and preach. I didn't know any Bengali at that time, and yet he told me to preach in the Bengali language. So I mixed 75% Hindi with 25% Bengali and preached."

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja continued, "If Sri Gurudeva gives a disciple diksa and the spirit to serve Krsna, and if that disciple collects millions of rupees for his Gurudeva, can he repay his Gurudeva with that money - or not? We should understand this point. Even if it seems that you have collected a lot of money you are really not doing anything. It is only by the name of Gurudeva that you have collected anything.

 

"This Matha is not a place for sense gratification, and neither have we collected disciples for this purpose. I want all disciples to preach this mission, to realize it and to give this spirit to others. You should realize even one percent, and if you have realized one percent you can preach. You will not be able to repay Sri Gurudeva in millions of lives if you are sat-sisya, a disciple in the real sense and you know factually what is krsna-prema and you are drinking that prema. Such a disciple can realize the glories of his Guru; otherwise one can never realize it. Keep this spirit in you heart. Don't be idle - engaging in sleeping, eating and mating like animals. This instruction is for both males and females. Offer your lives and everything you possess to the lotus feet of Sri Guru, and then your life will be successful. I pray to Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja, to my Gurudeva, and to all our guru-varga (disciplic succession) for you all."

 

There is no place here to put more!

 

[Guest guest]

CHEATERS, HYPOCRITES ANDPRETENDERS

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur

 

Who are self-deceivers?

 

Those who call themselves vaisavas and make a show of performing kirtana but do not accept initiation are certainly self-deceivers.

 

(Sajjana-tosani 11.6)

 

Who are hypocrites?

 

Hypocrites are those who do not accept that devotional service is eternal, but they always display external signs of devotional service. Their goal is to accomplish some remote purpose.

 

(Caitanya-siksamrta 3.3)

[Guest guest]

Prabhus,

 

Some curses have no power to cause harm. If you have no black magic power to cause harm, no harm will be done.

 

Also, Duvasa Rishi was always cursing people but he is not a Vaishnava. Vaishnavas should not adore Durvasa Rishi or imitate his mood. That is not raganuga bhakti. Surely a real rasika guru and his disciples will not worship Durvasa Muni.

[Guest guest]

 

Nice criticizing of the Gaudya Vedanta Samhiti.

There is not Hari Katha there?

 

You are a liar.

And I hope from all my heart that your nose will melt!

 

 

 

This basically proves my point. The devotees of Naryana Swami, like this one, have serious temper problems. They don't exhibit the kind of gentle behavior I have come to expect from a devotee.

 

When I last saw the Gaudiya Samiti website, there was no Krishna-katha there. That is a fact. Anyway, maybe there is Krishna-katha intermittently, but certainly none was there on the front page when I last visited some time ago. I never bothered to visit again. Why? Because in my opinion, people who are blessed with such a medium, and who relish using any of it for politics instead of Hari-katha (whether it is using 10% of it, 35% of it, or whatever), simply do not exhibit behavior consistent with pure devotional service.

 

A pure devotee wants to speak every minute about Krishna. He uses every opportunity to talk about Krishna only.

 

This is different from the Narayana Swami followers who are very careful to ration some of their time between speaking about Krishna and speaking about ISKCON. Speaking about Krishna is important, they agree. But they must make certain to also talk about ISKCON too.

 

Anyway, Anadi's behavior simply reinforces my conviction that the Gaudiya Samiti is just another ISKCON clone - another society that lowers the bar to make followers, which caters to part-time devotees, which only preaches the ideals of pure devotional service but seems less interested in enforcing them, etc. Like ISKCON, it too is full of uncultured upstarts... possibly with a handful of sincere individuals here and there, but certainly not the ones who are making all the noise. I'll go elsewhere without a second thought.

[Guest guest]

 

Just like Chapal Gopal who was cursed and had his nose melted in Caitanya Caritamrta. /images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

************

 

O Krishna, I am so fortunate now

that I am a living testament of Vaisnava Aparadha. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

All Glories to the Vaisnava Devotees of the Lord who fufill the desires of everyone and are full of compassion for the conditioned souls

[Guest guest]

The ones like you that disseminate lies on the net, and this is not the first one, we've met before, should meet their reward as a result of speaking against pure VaiSnavas in the most near future.

And this passion is welcome!

I won't tolerate in no form anymore your lies as you continue to disseminate them.

But don't be affraid KriSna the Lord of my Master, would have take care of you!

 

Liars like your, have no right to call themselves VaiSnavas, acusing the other ones in this way of vaiSnava aparadha, when they wish you to get what you deserve!

Liars like you have lost all the little light that they had in the form of their acumulated sukRti.

Liar!

[anadi]

previous post by anadi

[anadi]

This is different from the Narayana Swami followers who are very careful to ration some of their time between speaking about Krishna and speaking about ISKCON. Speaking about Krishna is important, they agree. But they must make certain to also talk about ISKCON too.

 

 

 

I don't speak about ISKcon but about the gaudya phylosophy. And as you can see some that pretend they reprezent Rupa and Raghunatha, go against gaudya vaiSnava siddhanta. I usually don't use the term ISKcon, but where from all kind of false siddhanta comes? Sometime in the name of modernising!

We don't need dikSa,

We don't need guru,

sadhu sanga is sanga with everybody who chants hare KRSNna

We fall from Vaikuntha, Goloka, because ofences to KRSNa

and so on...

[Yashoda_dd]

Dear anonymus guests,

 

I found it amuzing to hear that you found "a Narayana Swami page" with no Hari Katha. Please, let me know which page it is???

 

This is official web page 100% pure, politics free, aparadha free, karma free and fear free.

 

But please be carefull before you open it. You even may like it.

 

Just to introduction you about the titles of some of the of the lectures:

 

 

Sri Radhastami Day

 

A Lawn Darshan

 

The Appearance Day of Srila Bhakti Pramoda Puri Gosvami Maharaja

 

Glorification of Srila Bhakti Pramoda Puri Maharaja

 

The Disappearance Day of Srila Narottama dasa Thakura

 

Sri Narada Muni's Ecstacy

 

Sri Uddhava's Guru Rsi Narada

 

The Highest Summits of Prema

 

The Appearance Place Of Srimati Radharani

 

Separation Is Such A Thing

 

Your servant hoping to hear you all happy

Yashoda dd