about reincarnation

[druze]

I am a lebanese druze and would like to ask a question about reincarnation according to Hara Krishna's. You say that reincarnation or the soul could be reborn into any form of body, human or animal. However, the druze believe that it could only be reborn into a human form because animals have no mind to think with and the most primary organ is the mind that comes with the soul.

 

Can you please explain

[ShegavichaRana]

Human beings are born in three modes of nature. 1) Satva: The humans in this mode are noble, pure devotees with righteous conduct and go to higher planets after death (or get even salvation), 2) Rajas: The humans in this mode have almost a mixture of good and bad qualities. These people are likely to be born as humans according to their Karma, 3) Tamas: Mode of Ignorance or Passion. People born in this mode are slaves of their passion and behave like animals. Such people are likely to be born as animals.

Those who are gluttons, never think of doing anything other than eating, are born as either pigs or goats. In both ways, God gives them enough opportunity to eat whatever they like.

By the way, who are druze, could you please explain?

[armisael108]

you said that the druze say that animals have no mind. What is the druze's definition of the mind?

 

Because in this case I would make the statment that most humans have no mind either... therefore animals.

 

It is a funny state of mind for humans to elevate themselves, (delusions of grandeur), so much when their basic activities are on the same level of animals... eating, sleeping, mating and defending. What is the true difference? Spiritual consciousness, a possibility to enquire about the Absolute.

[theist]

let me ask a question that may also help illustrate the answer.

 

The soul is the actual being, correct? It is not that I am a human and have a soul, rather i am a soul presently living as a human.

 

So if the soul is the actual person, the life itself, How could anyone deny the that the animal forms also contain souls? There is an obvious difference between a dead animal body and a living one. The life has left. The soul is the life. The soul has left.

 

Exactly the same with a human form.

 

The mind does not die at the brain's death. It is of a more subtle constitution.

 

Animals are on a natural progression, reincarnating up to the human form.

 

Upon obtaining a human form if someone shows that they prefer to live as an animal just eating sleeping mating and defending then they forfeit the human form.

 

The human form is very special because it is formed to accomodate the process of self and God realization. If we ignore these activities and just live like an animal then we show our preference for an animal form. Then one will be given to us.

 

So the Krsna teachers tell us that no matter what religious form we may have the essential thing is to seek knowledge of our true self and our true relationship with God as His loving servants.

 

This is a very interesting question druze.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

Druze,

 

We would say the assumption that the animals have no mind is false: Obviously we see them engaged in the business of accepting and rejecting according to needs or desires. We would say the moral dimension of life may not apply to them.

 

You say the primary organ is the mind. Well, that could be argued. You certainly can't do without your heart or lungs either. In any case, the primary argument is just as true for the animals as it is us anyway.

 

The subtle body consists of material coverings like mind intelligence and false ego. The activities of this dimension determine your next material birth.

 

Consciousness, conditioned or not, requires expression through form. But they are constituted differently. These bodies see a ghastly end. Wouldn't it be nice to live forever? We all desire it, don't we?

 

Not possible for animals. It is for us.

 

ancient paztriot

[Guest guest]

All living entities have gradations of consciousness. Even plants follow sunlight and react to music. Animals have varying degrees of consciousness as well. However, only the human form of life has consciousness such that one can inquire into who they really are and the nature of God.

 

I have a question, don't the Druze also believe that females can only reincarnate into female bodies and males into males? That gender is fixed in reincarnation?

[druze]

we cannot deny that animals have similar qualities to humans. However we cannot assume that they are humans.Because if you guys know that an image of human was taken from an image of God. I am not saying that God is human because we cannot picture God in any way possible it is wrong, but we have been looked at upon by god and in no way animals are part of what God thinks humans are. IF you guys think differently, think twice because you are wrong. And if you think a person could be reincarnated or reborn into animal if he/she has done something bad in his past life, well, no because he will never be reborn into an animal, but we think he will be reincarnated into a human that is disapelled or mentally challenged or even a perfectly normal human body, because in every life a person gets a chance to reach God.

 

 

[Guest guest]

We say that basically all life forms share this eating, sleepiing, mating and defending. This is basic existential stuff.

 

We also say that there is little more going on in these big cities around the world than pompous animal life… just a sophisticated system of sense gratification. Prabhupada said a dog travels on four legs, we on four wheels… and those wheels are our so-called advancement.

 

So this is the analogy with animals… these four common activities. Now if one is not engaged in some form of religion, he is no better than the animals in his activities. In other words, he's a man animal.

 

Life comes from life! Life is the soul. It is consciousness.

 

So wherever the six transformations of life appear, they are indicative of the soul's presence.

 

Six transformations are birth, growth, remaining for some time, producing side effects, dwindling and dying.

 

If people can go up, they can also go down. We reap what we sow.

 

If we live like animals, we'll get an animal body. What could be more fair?

 

ancient paztriot

[theist]

has taken birth into those animal forms. Someone is obviously there. The question is who and what is his nature.

[ShegavichaRana]

chance for every human to reach Him in every life. However, how many of us truly follow the footsteps of a true saint? How many of us do Nishkam service, where nothing in return is expected from God for the devotional service that we offer to Him? How many of us have subdued our elephantine ego? All these bad qualities in us, taken us down the spiral, unless of course we try to eliminate them. Those who act more like animals, are given birth by God as animals, so that they can fulfil there animal kind of desires satisfactorily. There are many examples, wherein, the myth, "Once a human, always a human" is exploded.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

Yes Way.

 

Do you think your body is an image of GOD. No way. It is the soul that is you and you are not the body. This is what is the image of GOD. This image of GOD called soul lives in animals, plants and every living being.

 

So yes. Some human beings not fit to be born as humans in next birth are born as animals.

[yasodanandana]

"Because if you guys know that an image of human was taken from an image of God."

••••every image comes from the image of god, if god had not in one of his manifestation the image of a lion, from where the lion form comes?... from matter? satan? maya?

 

(haribol dear friend druze... i appreciate you so much, thanks to be here with this interesting discussion)