Fulfillment

[Asterix]

What does religion give to the practitioner? Is it just a sense of community, of belonging, or is there more. Why is it that there is a decline in religion?

[Guest guest]

Here are some obvious things:

 

You get eternity, knowledge and bliss. Science is trying to achieve these things, but they're not coming in.

 

You get equanimity of mind and vision. You get general wisdom.

 

You get the information to help you act on an eternal platform.

 

And you become a little sane in seeing the dependence our bodies have with nature and our tiny position in relation to everything else.

 

There is no future in the activities of modern society. Death voids all progress. People who put all of their refuge in temporary things are fools!

 

In other words you sober up.

 

You can also be saved from animal or lower life forms.

 

ancient paztriot

 

P.S. You become real and honest as a person. All the cheating and hypocrisy have to stop because Krsna is everywhere. To succeed with HIm, you have to be a gentleman.

 

In other words, religion develops the noble qualitites in man. Modern man has forgotten this and therefore everything is dirty: the air, water… people's minds.

[Guest guest]

You mentioned a sense of belonging or community.

 

Well, religion gives you that sense like no other. No man is an island. We want and need the companionship of others. Religion is the field for understanding this social or psychological field.

 

Material vision means seperatists vision: there is something outside of Krsna.

 

Now if we are souls (hypothetically speaking), that is very relevant to what we should do because we often know a thing according to it's function.

 

This brings in proprietorship and duty and so many issues. Yes, we have service to perform. Unfortunately, people their service to other imperfect beings and the meaning is temporary too… just as their attempts to gratify themselves.

 

You cannot stay here nor be satisfied. We are FRUSTRATED in trying to. Devotees have sufficient experience of this to look for something better. Religion makes them more than animals.

 

Why is there a decline in religion?

 

Well, obviously there is a decline in practicing it. People are madly pursuing health, wealth and power and so many things. You devote your time to this or that. If you had used your time more wisely, you wouldn't ask such foolsh questions.

 

ancient paztriot

[Guest guest]

 

there are different types of religion,so you must be more specific, for example what does one get out of the practice

of martial arts,well that depends on the specific

style or school, if you practice Kendo you learn

sword fighting, if you do Judo you learn about

about complex holds.

 

So religion is like that,your experience is relative to

the school of thought.

 

In Yoga the experience is described as joyfull,one experiences Joy, this is called Ananda.

 

Whether one belongs to a community or not is irrelevant,

the practice of Yoga is the science of self realization,

becoming in tune with the universe,in synch with the

consciousness of God.

 

By this one loses fear of death,by coming into

the association of god all dark thoughts hidden

within are destroyed, this is described by Krishna

in the Bhagavad Gita, " With the shining lamp of knowledge,

I ,within your heart will dispell the darkness born of ignorance."

 

 

so this is the goal of any true religion,if this is not occuring then you have not recieved the true religion,

From within the darkness of fear,ignorance of reality,

all anxiety is dispelled and replaced by the light

of eternal truth.

 

 

[Asterix]

But are we supposed to have a transcendent experience? I've never had one. Most people don't have one. Nothing mystical. We go to church, synagogue, temple, and have friends. We like the people and try to live a good life. I think thats the basic experience of most people.

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure if this qualifies or not, but this happens to me once in a while. It is odd that you are saying this because this happened today for me as well. I was in my car really getting into my cd's on mantras and something came over me.There were people looking at me and when this happens I normaly will not chant and "embaress myself". Today, I did not care who saw me--I was expressing my bhakti (devotion). It was as if a window had blown open and fresh air breathed through my body. It was cloudy outside yet I distinctly saw the sun. I felt it on my skin and within my body. It was like there was light coming off from the cars that passed me as well as light from each individual person. It only lasted less than a minute, but it was intense. Is this a transendental like expeirience?Or am I way off?

[Guest guest]

Guest, Nice discription.

 

Of course, everyone has their shinning moments. Some material. Some spiritual. The spiritual ones are non-threatening - always.

 

Verification of God is certainly a transcendent experience. There is the historical evidence of history and rituals, but to "know" something beyond the faith of others requires looking at yourself "real hard", and then acting on it. You immediately begin to find your own meaning and truth in doing so.

 

I grew up a Christian (as most of us here have [i think]). I simply didn't feel inspired with the Bible. Honestly, that's what I've always felt. I felt it was ambiguous and filled with "filler". To glean the knowledge or wisdom from Christianity I had to suffer so much "boring" rhetoric.

 

Everything was righteously for God in my Christian doctrine, but God is personally ignored (except for the sermon and prayer). There is less understanding and direction.

 

These books from Prabhupada - on the other hand - bring very profound spiritual moods… because we are associating with the greatest spiritual minds.

 

So it is a matter of association. What do the people know that you associate with?

 

ancient paztriot

[Guest guest]

what do you define as a transcendent experience ?

 

for the enlightened person life and everything that comes with it is a transcendent experience,In our conditioned

state we lose the vision we had as a child, the child

sees the world and is constantly in amazement or

awe, everything has a quality of transcendence,

they are happy to get out of bed and sad to go to sleep,the opposite of most adults.

 

If you are looking for the seas to part or the clouds to open and God to descend on a cornflake, don't hold your breath, look around yourself, see the miracle all around

you, you are seeing a miracle but not recognizing it for

what it is.

 

If and when God shows you a peak behind the curtain,

what do you think that will accomplish ?

Like the Wizard of Oz said, you allready have everything you need.

[Guest guest]

"Most people don't have one."

 

Hmmm, depends on what you mean. Many people around the world (probably more than half) certainly believe in God. Some may be speculative. But others have probably verified HIs existence through some sort of transcendental experience. This transcendence can happen at any psychological level. Sometimes it is intense and people notice. Sometimes it is just a passing thought at the supermarket.

 

Are we supposed to have transcendental experiences?

 

I would say most definately yes. That's what that big human brain is for.

 

But our "moments" should server to make our faith stronger. We should be cautious about the enjoying propensity.

 

It is much more meaningful to avoid the 4 sinful principles and offer your food and so on. These things say alot more about the quality of your existence.

 

ancient paztriot

[Guest guest]

Ancient Paztriot,

I don't know if you were saking me to answer the question of who I associate with or not, but here I am. I too grew up in Christian belief. But I see religion as a tool we use to get to God. It doesn't matter what tool we use as long as we get to God. I use a multitude of religions to help me get to God. I chant at I.S.K.O.N., meditate with Budhists, go to Church and Hindu temples. Sounds strange I know. I can't help it for I see God everywhere!!!!!I can't get my mind off of God/Krishna/whatever the correct term is. Krishna is the point of life and is all around, so nothing else really matters anyway. But as far as who I asociate with, to have profound conversations and spiritual guidence...there is no one. It seemes as though the people that I seek answers from are almost annoyed with my questions and search for truth. I am at a lack when it comes to spiritual guidence (as in the form of spiritual masters or gurus). I just take harbor in the name and walk with faith and devotion that everything will work out as it should.I chant, read Bhagavad-Gita, and keep my mind on Krishna at all times. Hare Krishna.

[Guest guest]

Well, sounds like most of us. But you may do better at remembering Krsna than I. Yes - most certainly so.

 

I believe there is wisdom and truth in all religions… even in the mundane sciences. And I believe we can glean knowledge from anyone or anything. Sometimes just the sound of a noise is very revealing - in a qualitative way.

 

But I don't believe we can mix and match incompatible processes.

 

There is no process superior to Krsna consciousness. All the principles and ideologies can be found here in this Vedic wisdom. Why debate?

 

ancient paztriot

[Guest guest]

Oh, there is also the danger of information overload.

 

When you find what works, you don't need to look no more.

 

ancient paztriot

[yasodanandana]

But are we supposed to have a transcendent experience?

••••••religion means transcendence... but the transcendence manifest itself also in ways that materialists do not recognise as transcendence. Like krsna where he was in the earth.. not everyone recognized that he was god

 

I've never had one.

••••of course, you are asking basic things, if you were in transcendence you were our master not one who asks

 

Most people don't have one.

•••••because thy do not practice transcendence

 

We go to church, synagogue, temple, and have friends.

••••possible.. going to the school and not studying gives these results

 

We like the people and try to live a good life. I think thats the basic experience of most people.

••••••yes.. it is already very good, but not enough and not transcendental

 

[yasodanandana]

"Sometimes it is intense and people notice. Sometimes it is just a passing thought at the supermarket."

.... no, transcendental means "beyond",,, so if one comes to transcendence there's no question of not be aware and conscious of it.. and of coming back

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that perceptive renummeration.

 

I can't remember when you replied to me Yasoda.

 

Nice to hear from you.

 

ancient paztriot

[yasodanandana]

oh hare krishna prabhu!!

[Guest guest]

okay, so this is a little off the topic path, but, it does regard fulfillment.I chant, read the Bhagavad-Gita, only listen to music that feels good (only listen to chants on cd.'s ect..)I think of Krishna all the time (well, at least there isn't an hour that goes by that I don't think of Him for at least most of the time).I guess that's easy because every where I look, I see Him.I also go to the temple on Sundays and during the week when I can. Besides doing this, what else can I do? I want Krishna even more than just this. How can I be more connected and closer to him? It is almost like whatever I do,it is not enough, I want more. So how can I?What to do?Help please:) Hare Krishna!

[Guest guest]

"Besides doing this, what else can I do?"

 

Coming from a hypocrite… You can surrender. You can actually forget conditioning and pamerings of the body (what adjustment now?) by simply leaving this world through KC. You know that. When you spontaneously remember the one you love, you are satisfied.

 

Prabhupada did it. He showed you the process. You know that.

 

I'm just another drowniing fool!

 

"I want Krishna even more than just this. How can I be more connected and closer to him? It is almost like whatever I do,it is not enough, I want more. So how can I?What to do?Help please:) Hare Krishna!"

 

Ok. Sounds like you need something more.

 

We all feel this… because we haven't arrived. You don't need any advice from anyone less than liberated. We don't know what to do with ourselves.

 

You have a foot in both worlds. How do I leave where I've been?

 

Again (coming from someone who should practice what he preaches), I'll suggest finding some why to preach to others - besides this board. Ooops!

 

Some do it through websites (very economical), some through programs with prisoners, some are actors. You will look until you find love in the service that's right for you.

 

ancient paztriot

[Guest guest]

The best way to know something is to teach it to others.

 

You just made me think in a way I want to meditate on.

 

Prabhupada lived his whole life in preparation. He began with magazines and books and serving his guru to help others know about Krsna.

 

His example is the monumental accomplishment is the expression of undeniable truth.

 

He said it is possible for everyone.

 

But I don't believe it's coming for me. NO. I am a slave to my senses and bodily airs.

 

My hope is a favorable birth somewhere where I can be trained from birth. And I feel deep inside that will be realized if I just try to advance Prabhupada's mission.

 

Even a little knowledge can go a long way… such as vegetarianism. Spread the word even if you can't live it.

 

ancient paztriot

[Guest guest]

Did you mean that you are a hypocrate or that I am? I guess it does not really matter because you made me think. If I am a hypocrate then I appologize. Not to you, but to me; if I let anything as superficial as a false ego get in the way between me and what is really important. Either way, I definatly want to think about this.

 

As far as preaching on this forum goes, that was never my intention. I had sincere questions and I was looking for answers.I didn't know (this has recently changed)many devotees at the temple. I met people that talked with me, but most of it was secular conversations and I was looking for a deeply Krishna converstaion. So this forum was how I associated myself with devotees:)

 

And regarding getting out there and doing something (prisions, ect...) you are right. What use is knowledge if you don't act on it?!

 

If I was taken in the wrong way I want to clarify myself. I never ment to imply that I was more advanced or realized then anyone else on here. I just have this NEED to surround myself with Krishna at all times. I just wanted to know how to get more of Him.

 

I was not trying to give advice, just get it. But, while we are on the topic, here is some advice: It is better to seek Krishna and fall down then it is to never seek him at all. We all fall, untill we are fully realized. At least that's how I think it is.

 

Hare Krishna.

[Guest guest]

I was calling myself a hypocrite. I thought that was definately clear. Don't know if I want to belabor that point; it's painful.

 

"I was looking for a deeply Krishna converstaion. So this forum was how I associated myself with devotees"

 

Yeah, same for me. Glad you're here. I'm inspired by your sincerity.

 

ancient paztriot

[Guest guest]

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[yasodanandana]

I chant, read the Bhagavad-Gita, only listen to music that feels good (only listen to chants on cd.'s ect..)I think of Krishna all the time ).I guess that's easy because every where I look, I see Him.I also go to the temple on Sundays and during the week when I can. Besides doing this, what else can I do? I want Krishna even more than just this. How can I be more connected and closer to him? It is almost like whatever I do,it is not enough, I want more. So how can I?What to do?

••••••••the only thing missing, the very first to do and the most important... to search for a pure devotee spiritual master, and to pray krsna to send him to you.. (tad viddhi pranipatena..)