About Krishna and his avatars...

[KrishnaBhakta]

I have a little question. In the Srimad Bhagavatam it states in section 1.2.23 that Krishna takes the forms of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva just to create, maintain, and annihilate the cosmic manifestation???

 

I need help with understanding this concept.

 

I have always believed that all three, Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, are Gods. However, recently I read that Brahma is not a God, but instead a being, that is, the first created being. My understanding is that Brahma was born, and he was given instructions by Lord Krishna on what to do, and his knowledge was given to him by Lord Krishna himself. Then he created the universe. I have heard that there is one Brahma for each universe??? If this is so, how is this possible? I just need a simple explanation.

 

Also, if Brahma is the first created being, then what about Vishnu and Mahesh(Shiva)? I believe that Vishnu is the Supreme Personality himself. However, from my experience I don't think that I have ever heard about Brahma being worshipped??? but I have heard about devotees of Shiva, and Vishnu as well. Why is this? and is Shiva considered to be God, or a created being as well?

 

And what do the 3 modes of nature resemble, that is, what is the concept behind the 3 modes of nature?

 

Also, Srila Prabhupada says that one should not imagine the form of Lord Krishna, for it is a sin to imagine what Krishna looks like based upon the beliefs of ours. If so, where do we get the information on how Lord Krishna looks, by which I mean how do we think about him, especially when thinking about his form and his qualities?

 

[Guest guest]

the descriptions in the brahma samhita answer these questions nicely, Visnu,Brahma,and Shiva have different

meanings depending on the function they perform ,in other words

there is One god,when god creates the " material world"

that potency,that aspect of God is sometimes refered

to As Brahma,which also refers to the intellect of God,

in other words Creation is accomplished through God's

intelligence.

 

A jiva doesn't create that is not possible,The descriptions

of Brahma sitting on a lotus sprouting from the navel

of Vishnu is symbolic in description,Vishnu represents

the being of God,the all pervading supreme Being,

the lotus flower represents the mind of God born

from His being,Brahma or Vishnu's intellect is born

from his mind,And His intellect is the creative potency,

this is quite simple ,just as your intellect is the creative

potency of anything you create.

 

That is described in Brahma Samhita as Hiranyagarbha Brahma,

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

When Visnu lying in the ocean of milk wills to create this universe, a golden lotus springs from His navel-pit. The golden lotus with its stem is the abode of Brahma representing Brahmaloka or Satyaloka.

 

PURPORT

"Gold" here means the dim reflection of pure cognition.

 

TRANSLATION

Before their conglomeration the primary elements in their nascent state remained originally separate entities. Non-applialtion of the conglomerating process is the cause of their separate existence. Divine Maha-Visnu, primal Godhead, through association with His own spiritual [cit] potency, moved Maya and by the application of the conglomerating principle created those different entities in their state of cooperation. And after that He Himself consorted with Yoganidra by way of His eternal dalliance with His spiritual [cit] potency.

 

PURPORT

Mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram: "The mundane energy prakrti gives birth to this universe of animate and inanimate beings by My direction." The purport of this sloka of the Gita is that Maya, the perverted reflection of spiritual (cit) potency was at first inactive and her extension of matter constituting the material cause was also in the separately dislocated state. In accordance with the will of Krsna this world is manifested as the resultant of the union of the efficient and the material causal principles of Maya. In spite of that, the Supreme Lord Himself remains united with His exit potency, Yoga- nidra. The word yoganidra or yogamaya indicates as follows: The nature of cit potency is manifestive of the Absolute Truth, while the nature of her perverted reflection, Maya, is envelopment in the gloom of ignorance. When Krsna desires to manifest something in the mundane ignorance-wrapt affairs, He does this by the conjunction of His spiritual potency with His inactive nonspiritual potency. This is known as Yogamaya. It carries a twofold notion, namely, transcendental notion and mundane inert notion. Krsna Himself, His subjective portions and those jivas who are His unalloyed separated particles, realize the transcendental notion in that conjunction, while conditioned souls feel the mundane inert notion. The external coating of transcendental knowledge in the conscious activities of conditioned souls, bears the name of Yoganidra. This is also an influence of the cit potency of the Divinity. This principle will be more elaborately considered hereafter.

 

TRANSLATION

By conglomerating all those separate entities He manifested the innumerable mundane universes and Himself entered into the inmost recess of every extended conglomerate [virad-vigraha]. At that time those jiivas who had lain dormant during the cataclysm were awakened.

 

PURPORT

The word guha (hidden cavity) bears various interpretations in the sastras. In some portions the nonmanifestive pastimes of the Lord is called guha and elsewhere the resting place of the indwelling spirit of all individual souls, is named guha. In many places the inmost recesses of the heart of each individual is termed guha. The main point is that the place which is hidden from the view of men in general, is designated guha. Those jivas that were merged in Hari at the end of the life of Brahma in the great cataclysm during the preceding great age of the universe, reappeared in this world in accordance with their former fruitive desires.

 

TRANSLATION

The divine lotus which springs from the navel-pit of Visnu is in every way related by the spiritual tie with all souls and is the origin of four-faced Brahma versed in the four Vedas.

 

PURPORT

The same divine lotus originating from the divine person entered into the hidden recess, is the superior plane of aggregation of all individual souls. The four-faced Brahma, the image of self-enjoyment, derives his origin from the prototype Brahma or Hiranyagarbha, the mundane seminal principle, who regards the aggregate of all mundane entities as his own proper body. The delegated godship of Brahma as well as his being the dislocated portion of Krsna, are also established.

 

TRANSLATION

On coming out of the lotus, Brahma, being guided by the divine potency turned his mind to the act of creation under the impulse of previous impressions. But he could see nothing but darkness in every direction.

 

PURPORT

Brahma's impulse for creation arises solely from his previous impressions. All jivas get their nature conformably to their impressions of previous births and accordingly their activity can have a beginning. It is called "the unseen" or the result of one's previous deeds. His natural impulse is formed according to the nature of the deeds done by him in the previous kalpa. Some of the eligible jivas also attain to the office of Brahma in this way.

 

TRANSLATION

hen the goddness of learning Sarasvati, the divine consort of the Supreme Lord, said thus to Brahma who saw nothing but gloom in all directions, "O Brahma, this mantra, viz., klim krsnaya govindaya gopi-jana-vallabhaya svaha, will assuredly fulfill your heart's desire."

 

PURPORT

The mantra, consisting of the eighteen divine letters prefixed by the kama-bija, is alone superexcellent. It has a twofold aspect. One aspect is that it tends to make the pure soul run after all-attractive Sri Krsna, the Lord of Gokula and the divine milkmaids. This is the acme of the spiritual tendency of jivas. When the devotee is free from all sorts of mundane desires and willing to serve the Lord he attains the fruition of his heart's desire, viz., the love of Krsna. But in the case of the devotee who is not of unmixed aptitude this superexcellent mantra fulfills his heart's desire also. The transcendental kama-bija is inherent in the divine logos located in Goloka; and the kama-bija pervertedly reflected in the worldly affairs satisfies all sorts of desires of this mundane world.

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Sarasvati,Learning,influences,Brahma.intellect

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[Guest guest]

Here Shiva or Sambhu is described,

shiva represents the jiva

who is empowered as a guna avatar

of govinda,in other words Mahadeva

is the qualitative representative

of govinda in the material world,

although he is not another godhead,

he is like a jiva,empowered as with

principle of govindas plenary portion

or avatar.

 

and therefore not called a jiva

 

 

TRANSLATION

Just as milk is transformed into curd by the action of acids, but yet the effect curd is neither same as, nor different from, its cause, viz., milk, so I adore the primeval Lord Govinda of whom the state of Sambhu is a transformation for the performance of the work of destruction.

 

PURPORT

(The real nature of Sambhu, the presiding deity of Mahesa-dhama, is described.) Sambhu is not a second Godhead other than Krsna. Those, who entertain such discriminating sentiment, commit a great offense against the Supreme Lord. The supremacy of Sambhu is subservient to that of Govinda; hence they are not really different from each other. The nondistinction is established by the fact that just as milk treated with acid turns into curd so Godhead becomes a subservient when He Himself attains a distinct personality by the addition of a particular element of adulteration. This personality has no independent initiative. The sail adulterating principle is constituted of a combination of the stupefying quality of the deluding energy, the quality of nonplenitude of the marginal potency and a slight degree of the ecstatic-cum-cognitive principle of the plenary spiritual potency. This specifically adulterated reflection of the principle of the subjective portion of the Divinity is Sadasiva, in the form of the effulgent masculine-symbol-god Sambhu from whom Rudradeva is manifested. In the work of mundane creation as the material cause, in the work of preservation by the destruction of sundry asuras and in the work of destruction to conduct the whole operation, Govinda manifests Himself as guna-avatara in the form of Sambhu who is the separated portion of Govinda imbued with the principle of His subjective plenary portion. The personality of the destructive principle in the form of time has been identified with what of Sambhu by scriptural evidences that have been adduced in the commentary. The purport of the Bhagavata slokas, viz., vaisnavanam yatha sambhuh, etc., is that Sambhu, in pursuance of the will of Govinda, works in union with his consort Durga-devi by his own time energy. He teaches pious duties (dharma) as stepping-stones to the attainment of spiritual service in the various tantra- sastras, etc., suitable for jivas in different grades of the conditional existence. In obedience to the will of Govinda, Sambhu maintains and fosters the religion of pure devotion by preaching the cult of illusionist (Mayavada) and the speculative agama-sastras. The fifty attributes of individual souls are manifest in a far vaster measure in Sambhu and five additional attributes not attainable by jivas are also partly found in him. So Sambhu cannot be called a jiva. He is the lord of jiva but yet partakes of the nature of a separate portion of Govinda.