Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati's opinion on women and sannyasa

[Guest guest]

 

Xerox? Its called ParamPara.

••••yes.. parampara is made by big and huge different personalities... perfectly devoted to spread the message also changing some details to improve the preaching... the xerox is not parampara. If you negate the variety,

 

 

 

First, its common sense they all have individual personalities. Second, since they are pure and qualified, they can change whatever they want without it taking away from Krishna's desire or instructions. They can ask him if they want! Therefore they never changed a thing. No one is negating variety, this has nothing to do with variety, it has to do with qualification. Only the qualified is in any position to make any change.

 

 

it is like you are saying that there are not or there will not be more pure devotees after the prabhupada's departure

 

 

 

No, thats not what I'm saying. Once again, I am saying they will first have to prove they are pure devotees according to shastra.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

have not folio with me, but for example i remember a prabhupada comment where he says that it is demoniac to criticize a pure devotee of the lord when he makes marginal changes in the siddhanta or even irregolarities with the purpose to spread krishna consciousness.

 

 

 

Even if you could validate that quote, that still isn't the same as saying that "making changes according to time, place and circumstance" is a quality of a pure devotee.

 

[Guest guest]

Krishna dances with the gopis as well. There are some gurus who use your logic to support the gurus performing rasa lila.

••••yes... weak example... but do you think that a uttama adhikari do not use the time/place/circumstance principle when he's preaching?

 

Regarding the topic at hand, it should be noted that Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati and Srila Prabhupada all advised against sannyasa for women

••••yes, of course, and i, knowing also the opinion of devotees (for me ) at the level of uttama adhikari (like my guru maharaja), i perfectly agree with it. My advice was only for explaining that things can change, especially if we are speaking of non fundamental parts of the siddhanta... bhaktisiddhanta said that there's no sannyasa for women, but he said also that if one does not chant 64 rounds he's not even human.

So we have to consider shastra.. sadhu (the tradition, the previous acharyas)... and guru and vaishnava preaching now in this world.. this is my only point..

(maybe i have gone OT.. for this i am sorry)

 

There have been many such pure devotees come and go.

•••••of course who come and go is not a pure devotee, if i say coke, i mean coke, not dirty water:)

[Guest guest]

 

Divorce/boyfriend/dating/jeans/tshirts/restaurants/food/Madona/etc, have all ready been figured out by Prabhupada and explained from various perspectives. In accordance to what you write, I can tell you have not read ALL he said about them. I dont know why you bring it up in the first place because it is not on the highest, except maybe this is something that annoys you. Let's not change the subject: Change, or who has the right to make changes.

 

 

 

Quite right. Of course, even according to Prabhupada's standards, these things have no place in ISKCON. I should not have brought them up in the same breath as what Prabhupada did establish. However, my point was that people in ISKCON have already strayed so far from Vedic standards, what to speak of the somewhat more liberal standards established by Prabhupada, that any further compromise is completely unwarranted.

 

People in ISKCON and other ISKCON-clone societies should realize this. They shouldn't think that the boyfriend-dating, blue-jean wearing, Madonna/TV/movie watching, karmi restaurant eating culture of 21st century ISKCON = the ideal, conservative standard. My point is that Prabhupada already made necessary compromises, so no further ones need be made. And in spite of that, so many people without any authorization have made even more compromises (blue jeans, dating, divorce). Now there are those who want even more compromise. Where will it all end? Prabhupada had vision, and made compromises according to it. Most other "compromise" proponents are just looking to make disciples or justify their own sense gratification.

 

[Guest guest]

Only the qualified is in any position to make any change.

•••••yes prabhu, i used all the possible words of my weak english to say: "pure devotee", "uttama adhikari", "real guru", "authentic pure guru" etc.... one who is not a real vaishnava does not have the right to change anything

 

I'm not going to criticize anyone

•••not as a person and in his efforts to come back to godhead... but there's the right and the duty to discriminate between bogus theories and authentic ones... these ideas about guru tattva are really not details, much more important of sannyasa for women.. much more

 

If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesnt, no reason to be so defensive.

•••••you have brought this thing of the 3&1/2 regulative principles, not mine.. :-)... who make changes with the only purpose to have more gratification has nothing to do with my messages

 

I must be some newbie or blind follow of some fanatics who 'told' me all this 'wrong' philosophy.

••••no, you are a nice and competent devotee, simply, in this circumstance you have started a battle without being sure if i am or not an enemy:-)

 

If someone proves otherwise with shastra or quotes (and not selective quoting) I will be quick to change my opinion

••••yes, we are completely agree.. you said: "Only the qualified is in any position to make any change....".. this is not different from my (poor) understanding of the vaishnava siddhanta

 

Its clear, however, you dont know all the books but think you do

••••yes, how i can say "i know everything and everything well"?

 

Even if you could validate that quote, that still isn't the same as saying that "making changes according to time, place and circumstance" is a quality of a pure devotee.

••••it is easily demonstrated by the story of the parampara.. there's not an acharya who does not changes, acharya means "he who teachs "achara".. behaviour" so whats the use to have a new "behaviour teacher" if the previous techings are enough?

 

hare krishna, please excuse me if i have offended you