Chanting devotees names?

[Govindaram]

 

Hare Krishna

 

If we chant jaya prahlada maharaja!, who is devotee of Lord Krishna, he resides in the spiritual world, so when we chant the Pure Devotees Name..

 

I am trying to think what sort devotional effect (potency) it has, also is the name non-different, or is Only Krishna non-different from His name.?

 

 

 

 

[yasodanandana]

the pure devotee is empowered by krsna, so also his name is divine and brings ourselves to krsna.. exactly like the murti or the photo of the devotee and the spiritual master... krsna is very pleased when you pray the name of his devotee

[theist]

We don't worship the devotee apart from his relationship with Krsna.

 

This is a problem in Christianity. Not a problem so much as an incompletness.

 

 

[yasodanandana]

"We don't worship the devotee apart from his relationship with Krsna"

•••yes.. we worship devotees because they bring to us krishna, otherwise why worship?

[Govindaram]

 

Hare Krishna

 

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

I understand devotees are empowered by krishna, the names of devotees come from the spiritual world, so thats why devotees are called by different krishna names!

[yasodanandana]

it is not enough... the name is also empowered by the devotee... to say "jaya krsna" has an effect on our consciousness, to say "jaya krsna das kaviraja goswami", the writer of sri chaitanya charitamrita, have another effect because we are evoking this particular devotee not only the krsna names in his name.

 

A pure vaishnava is a shaktiavesha manifestation of god, krishna gives to the name of the devotee a power that is non different from the power of the name of krsna himself.. (exactly like with the murti or picture)

 

in many saint places there's also"nama samadhis", little temples where the name of a pure devotee, written in devanagari, is worshipped exactly like the (regular) samadhi, the place where the body or the ashes are buried, or the puspa samadhi, the place where there's the garland worn by the devotee at the moment of leaving the planet

 

the power of the vaishnava name has a direct source in the devotee himself.. of course the devotee derives his power from krsna

 

to say "jaya" to the name of the devotees has also a great effect in wiping away our enviousness... it is very easy to recognize the greatness of god, so "jay krsna", "jay govinda", "jay bhagavan" is relatively easy to say..

 

but when we say "jay krsna das", "jay govinda dasi", "jay gurudeva" it is more difficult for us and very effective, because illusion says to us that they, apparently looking as common humans, are useless to worship and pray... : "they're human like you, subjected to error, demons, illuded like you.. why jaya?", but we know more than this and we say jaya to the vaishnavas

[Govindaram]

 

Hare Krishna

 

I feel when i chant devotees names, are they listening?..so I was thinking that Krishna within the heart (as witness) must know what i am doing, praising devotees is most good, because i feel it humbles me though i am not aware of what effect it does have on me as such, i am sure it must please Lord Krishna.. premsa kaho jaya gauranga!

 

 

 

[Gauracandra]

I've always liked the explanation that the devotees of the Lord in disciplic succession are like a wire conducting electricity. Because each one is linked, when you come in contact with one you feel the current. The same could perhaps be said of the names of the saints. When you call upon them, you aren't calling the name of a mundane individual. You are calling on a person who is linked with God. Something that is linked with God is purifying. Now the question could be how purifying? For instance, I've seen statements that put gradations on the names of the Lord, which ones are more powerful and by how much. If this is legitimate, then I would have to think that a saints name won't be as purifying as the name of God (though this is speculative on my part). I suppose the purifying aspect is not even necessarily in the name, but in the sincerity in which it is called upon. If I say Krishna, Krishna, with little sincerity, and someone chants Prahlad with great sincerity, then I would think the sincere person will have much greater spiritual benefit. Is it possible you don't even know a name of God, but cry out sincerely? and receive benefit.

[ShegavichaRana]

is also very potent. Chanting his/her name has equal efficacy. In BhagavadaGita, Lord has declared that, He becomes happy, whenever, His devotees are praised.

[Kulapavana]

our Acharyas told us to chant Hare Krishna. we serve and glorify them by carrying out their instructions, not by chanting their names.

[Guest guest]

"our Acharyas told us to chant Hare Krishna. we serve and glorify them by carrying out their instructions, not by chanting their names."

•••••of course, and sometimes prabhupada was not very pleased of the many "jaya prabhupada" in the kirtan instead of "hare krishna"

 

but we chant some devotee's name in the panchatattva mantra (not everyone is god in panchatattva) and we say the name of the spiritual master in obeisances, we chant vaishnava songs with the name of many vaishnavas (.... bhakativinoda ashraya... ... sri rupa, sri sanatana..... sri rupa manjari ..... yasoda... yamuna.... nanda.... etc,etc,)... so mahamantra is the yuga dharma but the name of the vaishnavas has surely a big place in our sadhana and worship

[Kulapavana]

out of respect certain devotee names are invoked during pranamas and are usually repeated only once (3 times for Panchatattva Mantra). the term "chanting" refers to repeated invocations, and in that sense we should stick to chanting Hare Krishna.

 

btw: it is VERY frustrating when in many of our temples less than 50% of congregational chanting is done with Maha Mantra, even when non-devotee guests are present and obviously cant follow the other mantras or songs.

 

To summ it all up again: when chanting, go extra heavy on Maha Mantra and extra light on everything else /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Guest guest]

i agree on everything and as a poor english speaker i accept the exact meaning of the word chanting...

 

(maybe we want to be uselessly creative in bhajans and kirtans... with strange and elaborated melodies.. with other mantras and verses... and maybe we forget that the singing has to be "congregational" not a show)

[Kulapavana]

dont even get me started on the kirtan "melodies" /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

when people struggle to follow a difficult melody how can they concentrate on the Holy Name?

 

...or when all you can hear from 20 feet away is wild mridunga and cartals smashing and some mumbling without distinctive vibration of the Holy Name... how can anybody taste the nectar in this type of chanting?

[gHari]

SB 4.23.31:<blockquote><center><font color=red>ya idaM sumahat puNyaM

zraddhayAvahitaH paThet

zrAvayec chRNuyAd vApi

sa pRthoH padavIm iyAt

</center>

yaH--anyone; idam--this; su-mahat--very great; puNyam--pious; zraddhayA--with great faith; avahitaH--with great attention; paThet--reads; zrAvayet--explains; zRNuyAt--hears; vA--or; api--certainly; saH--that person; pRthoH--of King PRthu; padavIm--situation; iyAt--attains.

</font>

Any person who describes the great characteristics of King PRthu with faith and determination--whether he reads or hears of them himself or helps others to hear of them--is certain to attain the very planet which MahArAja PRthu attained. In other words, such a person also returns home to the VaikuNTha planets, back to Godhead.

 

PURPORT

In the execution of devotional service, zravaNaM kIrtanaM viSNoH [sB 7.5.23] is especially stressed. This means that bhakti, or devotional service, begins by hearing and chanting about ViSNu. When we speak of ViSNu, we also refer to that which relates to ViSNu. In the Siva PurANa, Lord Siva recommends ViSNu worship to be the topmost worship, and better than ViSNu worship is worship of the VaiSNava or anything that is related to ViSNu. The fact is explained herein that hearing and chanting about a VaiSNava is as good as hearing and chanting about ViSNu, for Maitreya has explained that anyone who hears about PRthu MahArAja with attention also attains the planet which MahArAja PRthu attained. There is no duality between ViSNu and the VaiSNava, and this is called advaya-jJAna. A VaiSNava is as important as ViSNu, and therefore SrIla VizvanAtha CakravartI ThAkura wrote in his Gurv-aSTaka:

<center><font color=red>

sAkSAd-dharitvena samasta-zAstrair

uktas tathA bhAvyata eva sadbhiH

kintu prabhor yaH priya eva tasya

vande guroH zrI-caraNAravindam **

</center></font>

"The spiritual master is honored as much as the Supreme Lord because he is the most confidential servitor of the Lord. This is acknowledged in all revealed scriptures and is followed by all authorities. Therefore I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of my spiritual master, who is a bona fide representative of SrI Hari."

 

The supreme VaiSNava is the spiritual master, and he is nondifferent from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is said that sometimes Lord Caitanya MahAprabhu used to chant the names of the gopIs. Some of the Lord's students tried to advise Him to chant the name of KRSNa instead, but upon hearing this Caitanya MahAprabhu became very angry with His students. The controversy on this subject reached a point that after this incident Caitanya MahAprabhu decided to take sannyAsa because He was not taken very seriously in His gRhastha-Azrama. The point is that since SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu chanted the names of the gopIs, worship of the gopIs or the devotees of the Lord is as good as devotional service rendered directly to the Lord. It is also stated by the Lord Himself that devotional service to His devotees is better than service offered directly to Him. Sometimes the sahajiyA class of devotees are interested only in KRSNa's personal pastimes to the exclusion of the activities of the devotees. This type of devotee is not on a very high level; one who sees the devotee and the Lord on the same level has further progressed.</blockquote>

[ShegavichaRana]

That should settle the matter.

[Guest guest]

in iskcon we start the spiritual program in the morning praising a vaishnava with sri guruvastakam and we end in the evening praying the vaishnavas with "vancha kalpa tarubyas cha...."