Mars Beagel Lands:

[Govindaram]

 

Hare Krishna

 

Is this true, or a hoax like Moon landings.

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

[theist]

The Brits landed the Beagal 2 but have lost all contact with it since.

 

The US Spirit landed last night and began sending back some pictures. More to follow as it will take 9 days for it to unfold and become fully functional sending then many more pictures back. It also collect some dust on the way in which will be sent back in 2006.

 

I think there is yet another US craft to attempt a landing very soon.

 

 

[Gauracandra]

It seems pretty silly, but it was exciting to see the reactions as the probe landed. When Mars was close to earth, you could see it in the night sky. This little red dot, and it was kind of fantastic. It brought into some perspective the distances in our world.

[Kulapavana]

the probe landed on the planet Mars reflection in our time-space continuum, or in other words: on shadow of real Mars in our world, same goes for the landings on Moon.

[gHari]

I don't buy it. Beagel or poodle, no dog is qualifed to associate with the denizens of Mars. (SB 5.13.23-25)

[theist]

 

the probe landed on the planet Mars reflection in our time-space continuum, or in other words: on shadow of real Mars in our world, same goes for the landings on Moon.

 

 

Kulapavana,

 

What do you mean by this? I accept a subtle counterpart or component exists for all we see on this gross material plane. Is that what you mean?

 

If so then that would apply for this earth as well. Are we not then manifesting material bodies on Earth similar to landing probes on Mars.

 

If I am way off base please explain.

[Kulapavana]

"I accept a subtle counterpart or component exists for all we see on this gross material plane. Is that what you mean?"

 

Our body has both subtle and gross components, and that how it is set up on the "earthly" plane of existence. Other worlds (called lower and higher, but actually much more divided than these two groups) intersect with our world and are more "subtle" than "physical". With our senses we see their "shadow" in our world, like for example ghosts: they are a "shadow" in our world and we are a "shadow" to them also. Their time is different, and their space is different. Actually most of the time we perceive them with our mind, not our senses. Same goes for the higher planets and higher beings. There is water on the Moon planet in this higher time-space continuum, but it is not H2O. This is a very complex subject, but I hope it clears it up a little.

[theist]

a very confusing topic for me. My mind has very little(if any) context to work with.

[Kulapavana]

actually even most demigods have no idea how the Universe works, what to speak of us human pea brains /images/graemlins/wink.gif most of us don't even understand time, even as we experience it every day. the concept of many worlds (or time/space continums) existing paralel to our world is now accepted by many scientists as well as transcendentalists.

[Govindaram]

 

i think the pictures are being broadcast, from Paramount studies in Area 51. or Area 108. Lol

 

also who cares!

 

What life do they expect to find? a ten foot girrafe?

 

-

 

[theist]

and they are busy looking for it like it is some rare thing.

 

They hope to find some starnge bacteria on Mars. Hell, I told them they could get all of them they wanted from my bathroom and without all the hubub. Oh well.

[Kulapavana]

To think that thousands of people are somehow willingly a part of some massive conspiracy here is very, very naive. Also, there is no contradiction with the shastra, you just need to understand the what shastra says when it speaks about other worlds and planets. When Bhagavatam speaks of gardens on the Sun do you think you can drink their water? for you in this body it would all be fire. in the same way you go to the Moon, or Mars and only see rocks. you can even see much detail of the Moon surface from the Earth, including spectral analysis of Moon composition. You will not see gardens and cities there because they exist on a different plane of existence, or different time/space continuum.

 

(and btw. 10 foot girrafes are quite common on Earth, when they are young /images/graemlins/wink.gif )

[Govindaram]

 

 

after re-reading your posts, i have understood a little of what you are saying, (sort-of), and what Thiest said is very interesting also, so the Mars poddle landed on the 'shadow of Mars', so if somebody from another planet sent a probe here, you are saying we would not be able to percieve it right? very interesting. What do you think about 'human' moon landings..did they happen?

 

 

 

[Kulapavana]

"somebody from another planet sent a probe here, you are saying we would not be able to percieve it"

 

depens where they are coming from. when demigods come here from higher planets they see us but we cant perceive them unless they choose to reveal themselves. same is actually true for demons coming from lower planets (both lower and higher planets are actually more subtle than Earthly system). however, there are parts of Bhu-mandala (Earthly system) which are not part of planet Earth as we know it, and visitors from that region (once they enter our time/space) would be visible to us.

 

As to the landings on the Moon: it is certainly very possible that US astronauts did land on the Moon. I have some doubts, but I would give it a 95% probability.

[ancient_paztriot]

"To think that thousands of people are somehow willingly a part of some massive conspiracy here is very, very naive."

 

There is logical perspective that supports the conspiracies…

 

All it takes is a few conspirators at the top. Everyone else works for the launching of the spaceships - or otherwise witnesses it - and then "interface" with it/them through land based machines. The people are 'fed' information by those manipulating the masses for political reasons.

 

It is very easy to fool the people. There are many, many hoaxes perpetrated on society in general. Why are people such blind patriots?

 

Let's not be like the Christians who feel they have to fit science in their creation theories.

 

I remember the moon pictures from years ago. Those pictures don't match the unique luminosity we percieve here. But they do look like desert STUDIO shots.

 

I haven't seen the shots… my tv is dead (thank God). But I'm gonna presume the quality of the pictures is no better - given the advancements in technology - than the moon shots. In other words, if seen more realistic sci-fi in the movies.

 

Is it real because you see it on tv or because alot of people believe it?

 

The moon appears to be either full on or off - with a sharp dividing line. The moon pod and/or men were there for many hours (how long?) and no significant change in the set? Again, no way the luminosity of the set matches the moon's.

 

I think I could duplicate what they did if I had the resources and a bunch of fools for an audience. He!!, I'd be on Pluto by now!

 

P.S. Nobody take my comments personal. Please. I respect everyone's opinion. I can't reasonably prove otherwise. It's just my style to express my faith this way.

[Kulapavana]

"All it takes is a few conspirators at the top"

 

Not in case of current NASA projects. You have NO idea how many hundreds of people are involved and how it is all interconnected and decentralized.

 

As to the Moon luminosity: lack of atmosphere allows high reflectivity. you should see the true luminosity of the Sun from upper layers of Earth atmosphere - it feels 10x brighter than on the surface: THIS is what the Moon reflects, not what we see from the ground.

 

"Let's not be like the Christians who feel they have to fit science in their creation theories"

 

Let us also not be like Christian creationists with their blind acceptace that Universe was created in 6 days and our planet is 5000 years old. Srila Prabhupada placed great emphasis on scientific presentation of Vedic knowledge.

[ancient_paztriot]

"Not in case of current NASA projects. You have NO idea how many hundreds of people are involved and how it is all interconnected and decentralized. "

 

Well, how many does it take to invade Iraq or manipulate the economy through government intervention?

 

Most people are just trying to get paid. This is their higher motive. Their patriotism is subsumed under that. People want to keep their jobs. There are penalties for changing your mind or siding with the enemy. People don't want to make waves. They don't want to see something that will bring ruin on them.

 

How many people did it take to kill the Jews under Hitler's regieme? People are sheep who can be fed through a paycheck.

 

"As to the Moon luminosity: lack of atmosphere allows high reflectivity. you should see the true luminosity of the Sun from upper layers of Earth atmosphere - it feels 10x brighter than on the surface: THIS is what the Moon reflects, not what we see from the ground."

 

This is your faith. You have not personally tested if it is relevant or not.

 

I believe in what I understand to be the Vedic version… The moon's luminosity is accomplished through a combination of fire and ice. It is a heavenly planet full of meditating sages. There is great opulence.

 

IT IS NOT a meteor satellite of Earth - the modern SCIENTIFIC VIEW.

Do you believe the modern scientific view or the Vedic view? If you decide the Vedic view, then you know they're CHEATING!

 

Mars also is something more than a desert with it's 'human' society too. This creation is crowded with life!

 

I think it is a great theory to think that man just can't see what is really going on around him when he travels to other planets, that he is somehow deliberately blinded and bewildered by higher authorities so we will not stay and put up vested billboards. That would be one way to explain it. I supposed this hallucination would apply to the machines too. I don't believe it. We certainly don't have that scientific experience on this planet.

[Kulapavana]

""As to the Moon luminosity: lack of atmosphere allows high reflectivity. you should see the true luminosity of the Sun from upper layers of Earth atmosphere - it feels 10x brighter than on the surface: THIS is what the Moon reflects, not what we see from the ground."

 

This is your faith. You have not personally tested if it is relevant or not."

 

Actually I have personally experienced Sun's dazzling brilliance during high altitude flights.

 

"I believe in what I understand to be the Vedic version… The moon's luminosity is accomplished through a combination of fire and ice. It is a heavenly planet full of meditating sages. There is great opulence"

 

The Moon luminosity and oppulence you refer to cannot be seen with your current physical eyes. That is quite obvious from the shastra. Did you read my previous posts on this thread? The Moon we see is only a reflection of the Moon planet in our dimension. Baradarik Ashram is still full of meditating sages, but what do YOU see when you go there? Snow and rocks. Yet Vyasa is still there with other sages. Last person who was able to enter real Baradarik Ashram was Sripad Madhvaacarya, or so we understand from our sampradaya. Do you not see a trend here?

 

[ancient_paztriot]

""As to the Moon luminosity: lack of atmosphere allows high reflectivity. you should see the true luminosity of the Sun from upper layers of Earth atmosphere - it feels 10x brighter than on the surface: THIS is what the Moon reflects, not what we see from the ground."

 

My point is if they were there and took pictures they beamed back to us, then why isn't that same luminosity reflected in the broadcast?

 

As to the rest, I can't go there. I don't think anyone else we're aware of from Earth can go there either.

 

"… what do YOU see when you go there? Snow and rocks."

That's assuming you went there and the experience would be as you suggested. And that's assuming the scientist even know anything about the moon's atmosphere. And that's assuming they even know where the moon is. Believe the scientists? You sound alot like 'em.

 

Can the scientists really operate remote-controlled machines at those distances? Theoretically we're told so. Practically? We don't have access to all the information they do. Maybe some of that information is a conspiracy.

 

There are numerous political AND scientific conspiracies; keeping God out of people's lives is one of them.

 

I'll keep my faith. I don't care to force it on you.

[Kulapavana]

it is good to have a strong faith, but not blind faith. My understanding of shastra is somewhat different than yours but what counts is that we are both happy and inspired to serve Krishna with such understanding... may it only grow on us /images/graemlins/smile.gif Hare Krishna!

[ancient_paztriot]

I can't remember any scriptural pastimes dealing directly with the moon planet. Too bad/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

(I wonder if Narada ever goes there).

[ancient_paztriot]

There are formalities to going anywhere.

 

And our technologies allow us to monitor the skies.

 

The moon planet is far superior to us in every way (well, they may not have to good fortune of having toasters).

 

Do we have the technology to just drop in on them at our whim?

 

I mean I don't think they're lacking in defense or general material needs. I think they're probably experts at controlling their environment and looking inward. I image they see us COMING OR NOT COMING a long way off… certainly surpassing our distance available to us to see them (as Kulapavana says).

[ancient_paztriot]

Hridayananda…

 

Yeah, you should chant Hare Krsna even if you are a fan of NASA. Yeah, that's not our basic philosophy of not going to the moon. That's just a uh… that's not a fundamental point.

 

It is… we do have however a different vison of man's role in the universe. We don't see human beings as being the powerful controllers that they sometimes see themselves to be. In other words, they… that vision of the universe being just physical things and physical laws we sort of have the hang of or got a handle on it… We see that it's much more complex, much more complicated and that our postion as human beings is so much more humble that some people think.

 

That's the main point.

 

As far as the moon, don't be discouraged by that.

[ancient_paztriot]

Hey, look! It's the moon with a red filter applied…

(I knew it was gonna look like this}

 

[Kulapavana]

looks like the mars rover broke down. no transmissions for two days. a lot of speculations going on right now. the second probe is due to land on mars tomorrow.