does a man have absolute right over the woman

[Haridham]

Hare Krsna everyone. This is Haridham. Its been a long time since I wrote in so here is my question, comments...whatever.

 

Ofcourse these are for the devotees here and not some Random "hindu" or "hindian" that strolls in.

 

As you can tell I havent changed much but just a bit fried.

 

My wife emailed me and said to me that her aunt told her that the husband and total right over the wife in all circumstances, especially with sex and the wife cannot refuse. Is that true? That just sounds soooo disgusting to me.

 

Anyways I ask this because this is popular with indian people who say during the wedding night its the husbands right to do anything and the woman cant refuse. I dont believe that to be true. Any vedic evidence or anything.

 

I hope to hear from you all.

 

THis is much deeper then what I am writing on here.

 

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

" that the husband and total right over the wife in all circumstances, especially with sex and the wife cannot refuse. Is that true?"

••in kali yuga we are all equally low class, mleccha, yavana, out caste,

 

there's no caste, no one who is really able to lead properly others... so there's not a rule like that especially for the sex that, as a materialist or as a devotee, has to be practiced in an atmosphere of joy, happiness and most of all... free will, freedom !!.

 

But it is not a big problem for you, if she gives you some preminence in decisions , use it to be a good husband and a good devotee and to bring her and yourself back to godhead.

 

Be practical, if this girl is somewhat favorable to accept some guidance by you, accept the resonsability, do not misuse it and everything wll be allright

[ancient_paztriot]

The orders of Krsna come first …as a standard.

 

If either partner is excessively engaging the other in sin, then the oppressed one may seek better association for the benefit of their spiritual life …and be justified in doing so.

 

Only Krsna has ABSOLUTE rights.

[Guest guest]

 

Anyways I ask this because this is popular with indian people who say during the wedding night its the husbands right to do anything and the woman cant refuse.

 

 

I can't understand why a foreigner who makes generalizations like the above is considered racist, while an Indian can say the same thing with impunity.

 

Anyway, whoever taught you this is obviously low-class. Frankly, I was never taught any such rubbish, and I am from an Indian family.

 

[Haridham]

Hare Krsna, I didnt mean to say anything to offend anyone and I am glad you arent brought up this way but a LOT of indian people are....trust me.

 

I was disgusted at what I was told at my wedding to, about how if she says no then she is not a good wife etc ofcourse I totally smashed that guy with sastric evidence.

 

Some of these people are low class asses.

anyways, this is kaliyuga and i am just going with what I see.

 

I am glad I am in Srila Prabhupads movement and not some blind person leading the blind.

 

Hare Krsna

[cRimAl]

Well, I think that we should look at Prabhupada's actions. I think that he was pretty radical in his behaviour towards women considering the fact that he came from India and that he had been told completely different things. Prabhupada dared to change the standard and I feel that we can only be thankful for that.

 

Also, I think that it's a much ignored fact just how much women have done for the movement. I really regard that as a sad fact, like I said, we should take an example of Prabhupada's actions and deeds.

[Govindaram]

Haridham:

"Ofcourse these are for the devotees here and not some Random "hindu" or "hindian" that strolls in."

 

LOL. I'm not saying anything. (being a Hindu).

 

I think your Aunti needs a health check.

Testing testing.

 

I think your Aunti is truthfully, living in the dark ages, i guess its better than the 'hip and happening' Aunties, who tell you to have 'lurve marragies', even Hindu Grannies are getting all 'modern', i blame Tv, thankgod for Harinama.

 

Haribol!

 

 

[Guest guest]

You have had many replies already on this but...

 

"The king Pandu had new ethics of sexuality. In his views the sex attitude relates to the hoice of women's mind. The women whether married or unmarried would have their own choice in selecting sexual partners for the sake of pleasure. And such act is not against dharma - on the contrary its opposition might be treated as adharma. This attitude of sexuality has also been explained by the poet in the story of Uddalak and Swetaketu."

 

A.N. Bhattacharya (1992:155) "Dharma-Adharma and morality in Mahabharata" Delhi: S.S. Publishers.

[Haridham]

i think choice of partner is always there, I am not denying that.

 

The idea of telling someone that a man has a right over the woman no matter what the woman thinks however bugs me.Thats what I am talking about.

 

Oh and it was her aunt not mine.

 

About what Pandu said, well I clearly think he was talking about from the kingly position but its different for us normal folk.

 

As Prabhupad and other acaryas have said sex only for the beggeting of children which in it self is an act of love not lust which is the act just for using each other to satisfy their genitals.

 

As Rsabhavdev in the Srimad Bhagavatam tells his sons how this act keeps us bound in the material world etc.

 

As Krsna says in the Bhagavat gita, I am sex desire not contradicting religious principles.

 

ANyways, the whole idea of husband having the right over the woman disgusts me.

 

At first I was going to write an angry email because I wasnt happy about that. I was going to ask her if she actually loved me etc but decided not to come off like somone with a temper problem. I mean one hand I am telling her about Krsna conscioussnes and then if i get angry is not a good example. Plus emails are to impersonal.

 

Better to talk in person about it.

 

Hare Krsna

[ancient_paztriot]

"ANyways, the whole idea of husband having the right over the woman disgusts me."

 

I think this control aspect makes alot more since in another time and place. But then - as now - a benevolent benefactor is always appreciated.

 

Society is a mess.

 

Some women should listen to the men who tell them to put some clothes on.

[Guest guest]

Some women should listen to WOMEN who tell them to put some clothes on.

 

Then again, some men should listen to women or men who tell THEM to put some clothes on, give up wearing latex/speedos, stop styling their hair, stop TRYING to seduce woman after woman. They are not the exception either.

[cRimAl]

This week I heard a pretty disturbing story: some (anarchist) friends of mine were doing a 'food not bombs' program and they wanted to join efforts with the devotees of the 'food for life' project so that they could reach more people...well, in the end the whole project went 'kaputski' because the guys I knew really couldn't handle the devotees their criticism towards women...personaly I also have big difficulties with that myself.

 

I have seen way too many people getting turned off of spirituality because of this reason and I think that's a real shame...

 

[Priitaa]

Crimal,

 

I am sorry to hear this has happened yet another time. You're not the only one who has difficulty with this. I do, many do, for good reasons. Its not our philosophy. (sigh - sometimes I've said some devotees are Hindu wannabees rather than trying to become pure Vaisnava.)

 

This is a chronic problem in the movement - that so many misunderstand (maybe on purpose) the position of women in Krishna consciousness. I have done much research on this, tho don't have the quotes right at my fingertips. (I can get them if need be.) However, we can even see from a practical perspective how Prabhupada teated his female disciples. He did not treat them any lesser than his male disciples. Even had them go out on the streets and distribute books to strangers in male bodies, etc. He had no fear they would run off and indulge in illicit sex like some (not all) men think. When we understand women devotees are indeed, DEVOTEES, certainly her interests are in Krishna and not all these other things. I could go on about this but time is short. You've made good point I've said in the past: Looking down on women is simply bad preaching!

[cRimAl]

However, we can even see from a practical perspective how Prabhupada teated his female disciples. He did not treat them any lesser than his male disciples. Even had them go out on the streets and distribute books to strangers in male bodies, etc. He had no fear they would run off and indulge in illicit sex like some (not all) men think

 

 

That's exactly how I also feel: I think we should look at Prabhupada's actions, and those show that he didn't see women as being lower human beings...

And personaly, I believe that woman can be way better at being celibate than men ever will be...I know that a lot of male devotees are not at all happy when I see say something like this but to me this is just as clear as the water running out of my tap.

Male hormons work in completely different way than women their hormones, I mean, nature just works that way so yeah, I'm convinced that men have a way more hard time in being celibate than women but I don't think that avoiding women or even forcing them in lower positions will ever be a cure for that: confrontation with yourself is the only cure for that. But again, that's just my opinion.

[cRimAl]

And furthermore: I will never forget what Krishna had to say about the gopi's and the wise men...

[ancient_paztriot]

"Then again, some men should listen to women or men who tell them to put some clothes on, give up wearing latex/speedos, stop styling their hair, stop trying to seduce woman after woman. They are not the exception either."

 

You're so right.

[Guest guest]

Re

{Of course these are for the devotees here and not some Random "hindu" or "hindian" that strolls in.}

 

How can you be so rude to Hindus who visit this forum? Your attitude stinks

 

And before you go on, I do not to any one having complete control of anyone let alone his spouse

This disease of lord it over others is inherent in every one but that’s a different matter.

 

Your attempt of maligning "hindu" or "hindian is wrong. Have a look at west, that is where the womans lib has sprung from, it speaks for itself.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Govindaram]

 

"How can you be so rude to Hindus who visit this forum? Your attitude stinks"

 

You must be a Hindu then, i am not even offeneded anymore since knowing i am an eternal servant of Krishna/

 

It doesn't say In Vedas 'by all the veda i am not be known by the hindus'..does it..what are you offeneded about?

 

Anyways i haven't made a post today so i thought i would stick my head into this thread, i was getting withdrawal symtoms, so i had to post. Haribol

 

Ps. Your point is great, only Krishna has right over our material body.

 

 

 

[Kulapavana]

unless you learn to treat others (especially people close to you!) like Lord Krsna's beloved children, you are not treating them properly.

 

you can learn a lot about practical Vedic culture (including treatment of women) from Mahabharata and other Puranas, but not from present day India or ISKCON.

[Guest guest]

Re

{You must be a Hindu then, I am not even offeneded anymore since knowing i am an eternal servant of Krishna/}

 

I do not go about calling my self-Hindu but if someone identify me as such, I have no problem with that.

 

RE

{It doesn't say In Vedas 'by all the veda i am not be known by the hindus'..does it..what are you offeneded about?}

I do not get your point

not some Random "hindu" or "hindian" that strolls in.This hurts

RE

{Anyways i haven't made a post today so i thought i would stick my head into this thread, i was getting withdrawal symtoms, so i had to post. Haribol}

 

Haribol that’s the way forward

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[theist]

I think before this question can be answered we should ask what really makes a man a man.

 

Surely it is more than possessing a penis. Even a monkey has one of those.

[Guest guest]

LOL lol

 

Though its true.

 

What makes a man? What does each man use for his barometer to evaluate his manhood?

 

Is it how much sex he can have? An ape has better sex life than does a man.

 

Is it how well he can control a woman? Then the battle is on. The mood of battle results in war in marriage.

 

Is it how much money he can make, or how little he can make suggestive of spiritually advanced renunciant while family suffers?

.

.

.

.

.

Is it assuring his family is provided with physical, emotional and spiriutal securities in this material world?

[Guest guest]

RE

{I think before this question can be answered we should ask what really makes a man a man}

 

What question are you refering to?

 

Mirabai did not consider any mortal a man

 

Jai shree Krishna

[theist]

that is the start of this thread.

[armisael108]

Haridham prabhu,

 

You know everything can be used in Krishna's service, even this mentality.

 

For the first night, you can agree, but learn what your wife likes and serve her to the best of your abilities on that night telling her she has no choice to accept it.

 

Use this mentality for the betterment of your marriage proving to her what a real Krishna conscious husband is all about, prove to her that beside celibacy, marrying a Krishna conscious husband is the best thing for her well being.

 

Cook her favorite meals (hoping vegetarian), offer them to your deities than have a wonderful prasadam feast with her. Pray your deities that They bless your marriage with Krishna consciousness.

 

So go for it, take control of her that night... but in a serving mood instead of a lusting mood. What is Krishna's little secret? He can only be controlled by love of His devotees, show it how you can love your wife, Krishna will be very pleased.