This has always stumped me...

[Starman]

1. If God is a person, and if He can create all this......why didn't he just create mankind perfect to begin with?

 

 

2. Why all the mystery covering the TRUTH? Why does God not make Himself known to people in ways that they can be sure of....why make it such a mystery and have the TRUTH so shrouded? If He's God...obviously He could've done it another way.

 

Hare Krishna!

[Govindaram]

1. We are perfect, but we choose not to be, its not krishna's fault, that we wanted to be apart from Him, we are His parts and parcels (spirit souls), we can ONLY be happy with Him, the end.

 

 

2. God (Krishna) is not so cheap, that He can be known by anybody, its that we want to be apart from Him, not the other way around, it goes back to another thread, where a devotee says we are envious of Krishna, this is 100% true.

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

[Starman]

Thanks Govindaram!

 

Hare Krishna

 

I understand what you've said, but something seems to still be missing.

 

1. If we are perfect....then that means there's no possibility of choosing to be non-perfect. Perfect by definition would rule this out, right?

 

2. God is not so cheap, you say? But on the other hand why make it so difficult that very, very few people even begin the work? Again, why does God need to make is so difficult?

 

3. Why does God NEED us to love and serve Him?

 

Thank You, I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just wanting a more indepth explanation if it exists.

 

I understand the point you make about us being envious, and that makes a lot of sense to me....thanks

[ancient_paztriot]

"If we are perfect....then that means there's no possibility of choosing to be non-perfect. Perfect by definition would rule this out, right?"

 

No, perfection lies in harmony and coperation. That MUST be based on free will. Otherwise, there's no ______.

 

"God is not so cheap, you say? But on the other hand why make it so difficult that very, very few people even begin the work? Again, why does God need to make is so difficult?"

 

The difficulty is in us not accepting the facts. To surrender to a higher personal power is totally rational. We just are obsessed with our own egocentrism. We can all experience this. There is no argument on this point.

 

We have come here to imitate Krsna, to be the CENTER… Now see what I can do!

 

God has infinite tolerance for us. We are a thorn in His eye.

 

PRABHUPADA IS THE PROOF for most of us (I presume to say) that the knowledge and process works. He accomplished the impossible. He lived the impossible.

 

PRABHUPADA was so fortunate to have been raised as he was. He had the sense to understand the instructions of a pure devotee. Alot of us miss out on such signs due to our western upbringing.

 

(I'm not suggesting a similar fortune would make us all Prabhupadas… thinking of varnashrama dharma.)

 

 

"Why does God NEED us to love and serve Him?"

 

Why do you need to talk or associate with anyone? Is God less personal than you?

 

 

[Govindaram]

hare Krishna

 

 

2. Make it difficult, Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu says just chant this Maha-Manta |hare krishna|, how easy do you want it?

 

Mr Antient Prabhu has all the answers.

 

 

 

[ancient_paztriot]

Mr. Prabhu has been feeling a nusiance around here lately.

 

I learn more from you guys than you know.

 

If I have the answers, they are not my own. We can agree on things because we all more or less have the same knowledge.

[Govindaram]

 

Free will, makes you come here(the forum, not this earth) this same free will when dove-tailed in the service of devotees/krishna, can help you go back HOME. sounds so very simple, the thing is it Is, just chant harinama. Mr stumps no.1 question baffled me, thankyou for your support.

 

Haribol!

[Guest guest]

1. If God is a person, and if He can create all this......why didn't he just create mankind perfect to begin with?

 

why ask why ?

you're here you're queer ,deal with it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

 

2. Why all the mystery covering the TRUTH? Why does God not make Himself known to people in ways that they can be sure of....why make it such a mystery and have the TRUTH so shrouded? If He's God...obviously He could've done it another way.

 

Why not ?

 

If you see your present life as all in all then

what you ask there is no logical answer to,

this is the problem with faiths without the concept

of reincarnation,they cannot present an answer

to why are things the way they are,different

realities for different people.

 

so the truth is that in the Vedic conception this world

is meant to elevate the concsiousness of the individual,

in whatever form that takes,some may have one experience

that is not the same as others,God could show you everything

at any time but will that elevate your consciousness ?

 

for an example a knife in the hands of a cook can produce

pleasureable results,in the hands of a crazy person

that same knife can produce pain.

 

so knowing everything is a mental thing,and in and of itself

does not produce the desired result of your sojourn in

the material world.

[Priitaa]

There have been many answers to your (first posters) questions, and they are all good. I'd like to try my hand at it too.

 

Q) 1. If God is a person, and if He can create all this......why didn't he just create mankind perfect to begin with?

 

A) Actually He did. Originally we were all up in Krishnaloka just hanging out with Krishna, playing, serving, and having fun. But due to material desires, thinking we could do yada yada better than Krishna is doing it, or whatever other nonsense, we could not stay in that place of peace and harmony. That would cause a disturbance to the society, a rare society filled with only the most illuminated and realized souls. Therefore we had to be sent elsewhere. Krishna, being so kind, did not send us to some hellish planet. One initially comes down through the 8 layers of material energy to earth. We are given an opportunity here, no matter how many life times it takes us. (Tho to waste even one puts us at risk of reincarnating, and we never know 'where' we will end up. So we need to use this birth wisely.)

 

Of course, from the perspective of human beings or mankind once we all ready hit earth, why He did not create us perfect from that point? Well, as you can now see we had our individual karma all ready, after whatever specifics we said or did in Krishnaloka. It is us who contaminates ourselves, not God. But for sake of argument I can concede that if one was fortunate enough to be born in Satya yuga, the people who took birth at that time were indeed perfect and pure, it was their last birth and they were on their way back to Home, back to Godhead upon death. Whereas in this degraded age of Kali yuga we do not see many perfect realized people around us, simply due to their karma (and ours) to be born during this age. Yet Prabhuapda has made it so easy for us. In the age of Kali we too can make it back in only one birth, if we take seriously the chanting of Hare Krishna daily.

 

Q) 2. Why all the mystery covering the TRUTH? Why does God not make Himself known to people in ways that they can be sure of....why make it such a mystery and have the TRUTH so shrouded? If He's God...obviously He could've done it another way.

 

A) Many of us were born in the West where truth is hidden. Our churches didn't even come close to telling us about enlightenment, what to speak of informing us of Who God is. So first we need to consider where we took birth: in the land of meat eaters, drunkards, sex mongers, etc.

 

This is not to say there was not some purpose or reason we were born here or at this time. Some have said it was Lord Caitanya's arrangement to assure His prophecy to come true that there will be chanting in every town and village. I dont know, but it's possible.

 

There is not much mystery covering truth if one was fortuante enough to be born in India AND in a Vaisnava family. Even a hundread years ago there were many regular citicizens in India like that and one did not have to be a saddhu to be strictly practicing Krishna consciousness. But now it is kali yuga in India too, so though there are still many Vaisnava's there, much confusion about Krisna's highest teachings exist in the forms of imprsonalism and mayvadi. However, if one is fortunate to come in contact with a pure devotee, like Srila Prabhupada, it does not matter where we were born, he reveals the highest truth to us through his books.

 

Q) 1. If we are perfect....then that means there's no possibility of choosing to be non-perfect. Perfect by definition would rule this out, right?

 

A) There's always choice, but I saw that covered on a previous post. ....... Due to the associaiton with material matter for countless births, we have been covered over by maya's strong illusory energy. Our soul remains perfect, but previously most went after various forms of intoxication or eating of at least fish, hanging out in bars, etc. Such activities are not light, and not enlightening, but the darkness of ignorance. Fortunately the chanting of Hare Krishna is so powerful that it can cleanse a persons consciousness and heart of all such things.

 

Q) 2. God is not so cheap, you say? But on the other hand why make it so difficult that very, very few people even begin the work? Again, why does God need to make is so difficult?

 

A) It is not really difficult, its a matter of desire. I use to go out on sankirtana and so few even wanted a book! I wasn't asking them to shave their heads and move in the ashrama, just take a book, read about God. Only a few had an interest. And of those few, once I walked away, maya covered them over again, so even less took the book seriously. (Tho there is always benefit just by touching it.)

 

Q) 3. Why does God NEED us to love and serve Him?

 

A) He doesn't. ha He is perfectly fine and fully self satisfied without our love or service. But Krishna is a merciful and loving God, so He wants us back. He did, after all, create us. Like a loving parent whose child has gotten in trouble with the law or something else, they wait for the child to 'wake up' out of thier illusion about the nonsense they have chosen to believe, and turn that around, believing instead in what is good and what is right. Krishna loves us, so out of His causless mercy He lets us serve Him and learn to love Him once again. Due to service and affection, we can return to Krishnaloka where all our suffering will be relieved.

 

Though we dont have to wait until we die to achieve that. We can be Krishna consciusnes right here on earth, right now. And as you probably guessed by now, I am going to say that process is chanting Hare Krishna. :-) Then we are on our way!

 

Well, thats my perspective on it. I realize you are not trying to be confrontational and just wanting to take your knowledge to the next level. Hope this helped! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Starman]

Hare Krishna,

 

That helps to clear up some of the confusion and I realize more and more that a lot of this information has to be accepted as it is. That's a tough one for me at times:)...but I'm working on following the regulative princilples, and chanting.

 

Sometimes I forget what we're doing, and the reason we do it. This is a gradual process, patience and perseverance is needed...more characteristics to be cultivated.

 

Thank you all for the thoughtful responses!