Puri Maharaja..rules?

[Guest guest]

Haribol!

 

Can any kind devotee tell me the particular rules/regulations Guru Maharaja sets down for new aspiring initiates, thankyou. I know Iskcon has 16 rounds/4 regs,

 

Hope to hear replys soon..hare krishna.

 

[yasodanandana]

(if you are a disciple or an aspiring disciple: "Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Maharaja")

 

 

 

at least 16 rounds... at least.. but one has to chant more as possible

 

no meat, egg, fish

no intoxication

no illicit sex

no gambling

 

but the relationship is personal, i have heard and seen exceptions in a more strict sense or less strict

 

if we are in the west gurudeva recommends to practice the spiritual program given by srila prabhupada

 

 

[Govindaram]

Hare Krishna

 

I know this may seem like an old question, and it just keeps bugging me,

 

Did His Divine Grace say to stay away from his Godbrothers?..if so did he mean all of them, or just some, i only ask because i know Srila Prabhupada associated with Puri Maharaja, so this has to be a good sigh right?

 

My other question is, how do Iskcon see all the above etc, any thoughts, i hope this can be answered simply, and not create a disturbance on this thread..haribol!

 

I find Puri Maharaja very nice humble devotee, unlike i have seen, jaya prabhupada!

 

Ps. That guest post was mine, i guess it was obvious, so i'd better own up /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

You know how it is!

 

 

[Guest guest]

Letter to: Puri Maharaja--Bombay2 December, 1970

70-12-02

 

My Dear Puri Maharaja,

Please accept my humble obeisances. I am in due receipt of your letter dated on November 24, 1970. Perhaps you are my only Godbrother who has appreciated my humble service to the cause of Guru Gauranga. All my other Godbrothers are very much envious, as I can understand from their behavior.

In your letter dated November 10, 1970, you have written to say that I should inaugurate the installation ceremony. So I am very much obliged to you for your kind invitation, and my program will be as follows:

Tomorrow I am going to Indore; from Indore I shall come to Surat. From there I shall go to Gorakpur. From Gorakpur I shall go to Allahabad, and most probably from Allahabad I may go to Vrndavana.

So far as Mayapur is concerned, I do not think I shall be able to attend the Gaura Jayanti celebrations at there. The reason is that I have no place of my own, and certainly there will be too much crowd during the occasion. Therefore, I want to avoid this occasion. Sometimes after we may visit.

I shall go to your place from Vrndavana or from Allahabad, and we have to arrange in that way. We are thirty men and women all together. Whether you want us all to visit? Perhaps if we go from Vrindaban we shall have to take advantages of the Grand Trunk Express. Of course there is sufficient time now, and I shall be in regular correspondence with you on my tour, but I accept to visit all the places mentioned by you when I go by that side.

[page MISSING]

 

--

 

 

Letter to: Syamasundara--Calcutta29 May, 1971

71-05-29

Bombay

My Dear Syamasundara.,

Please accept my blessings. There has been a slight change of plans and I will not be arriving Bombay on 31st May, 1971. Rather my arrival there will be delayed for a few days. At the request of my Godbrother, Puri Maharaja, I have consented to go to Rajahmundry with party for a few days. I will be leaving Calcutta for Rajahmundry program on the evening of the 1st June, 1971 and will let you know by telegram when I am due to arrive in Bombay. The address in Rajahmundry is as follows: c/o B.V. Puri Maharaja; Sri Krishna Caitanya Ashram; Rajahmundry-1; E. Godavari (A.P.).

Please offer my blessings to the others there. Hoping this will meet you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

ACBS

 

--

 

Although Prabhupad said stay away from my godbrothers, he said good things of Puri Maharaj, and took some western disciples to Godavari to see the place where Mahaprabhu met Ramananda Raya. Prabhupad and Puri Maharaj were close godbrothers and friends. If you listen to Srila Puri Maharaj's lectures, you will see he follows in the line of Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupad and AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad. Have you met Srila Puri Maharaj before, prabhuji?

[Govindaram]

 

Have you met Srila Puri Maharaj before, prabhuji?

--

No i have never met Maharaj before.

 

 

[yasodanandana]

Did His Divine Grace say to stay away from his Godbrothers?

•••many answers:

1)yes he did for keeping on him the attention of unattentive disciples

2)he was maybe more close to his godbrothers than we sometimes believe

3)as we have seen, prabhupada made distinctions between godbrothers

4)a disciple is perfectly conscious that the behaviour of his guru maharaja with his godbrothers and his master could be incomprensible being transcendental

5)at the end of his permanence in this planet srila prabhupada said to the godbrothers that it was for preaching purpose, and he was asking for collaboration

6)now prabhupada is not there phisically so we have to find another pure uttama adhikari to serve under his direction... bhagavad gita says it, uttama adhikari...... organization, sect, math, church is not important as this aspect, one has to became a disciple of a person... the appartenence to an organization comes after.

 

i only ask because i know Srila Prabhupada associated with Puri Maharaja, so this has to be a good sigh right?

••••yes i think that is a good sign, of course!!

 

My other question is, how do Iskcon see all the above etc, any thoughts, i hope this can be answered simply, and not create a disturbance on this thread..

•••the laws say that basically one has to stay at his own home with the possibility to give the permission to stay in iskcon to a disciple of a non iskcon guru by authorization of the local GBC.

 

In my (extremely humble) opinion iskcon is too much "organization based"... i would like so much also that the admission to the service in iskcon could be more selective, but on personal basis.

 

In the math of guru maharaja is not that everyone is admitted doing puja, giving class, singing bhajans, managing etc.. but this selection is not done by organization, The fact is, for example, that i, disciple, do not even touch mridanga because it is the service of two brahmacharis and that every afternoon, in vrindavan, kartika... the lesson on damodarastaka was given the half of the times by devotees not disciples of srila gurudeva. So selection is there... but personal... i am not fit even if disciple, they are fit even if non disciples

 

I have a "local" concept of the association.... if i want collaboration for preaching in rome i find more rational to ask the collaboration of an expert devotee in rome even if belonging to another math than a godbrother of naples

 

1)if we are clever, we will avoid to point too much attention on the differences

2)peoples are less scandalizad by our differences than we devotees often believe

3)if one of rome takes tha initiation by one of the gurus of the two devotees, no matters... he return to rome to make service, so no temple loses personneel and so on

 

in italy we have a relatively good situation with iskcon, i have some little fixed services (also a little nama hatta group) in iskcon.... someone is diffident, someone is openly against me, but my life is much more easy than i espected the day i was taking initiation .... so no problem.. hare krishna

[cRimAl]

I'll be in Italy in June to meet Bhaktivedanta Naryana Maharaja. I really can't wait.

[Govindaram]

 

Hare Krishna

 

Forgive me, I have a little hard time understanding what you said, but understood some of it, i will have to re-read and maybe do 64 rounds to get a little purifyed:)-

 

Haribol!

 

Ps. Do you know of any disiples of Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Maharaja in the uk?

 

 

 

[yasodanandana]

Forgive me, I have a little hard time understanding what you said, but understood some of it, i will have to re-read and maybe do 64 rounds to get a little purifyed:)-

••••no it is for my ugly english and my materialism... there's no need of purification to read my nonsenses... please forgive me..

 

Ps. Do you know of any disiples of Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Maharaja in the uk?

•••i know that there are some, i know also personally at least one who is from italy, but i do not know where they live

[Guest guest]

(Don't kill the messenger.)

 

 

"Regarding Bhakti Puri Tirtha Maharaja, they are my God-brothers and should be shown respect. But you should not have any intimate connection with them as they have gone against the orders of my Guru Maharaja." Srila Prabhupada Letter to Pradyumna 02/17/68

 

"You are right about Sridhara Maharaja's genuineness. But in my opinion he is the best of the lot. He is my old friend, at least he executes the regulative principles of devotional service. I do not wish to discuss about activities of my Godbrothers but it is a fact they have no life for preaching work. All are satisfied with a place for residence in the name of a temple, they engage disciples to get foodstuff by transcendental devices and eat and sleep. They have no idea or brain how to broadcast the cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. My Guru Maharaja used to lament many times for this reason and he thought if one man at least had understood the principle of preaching then his mission would achieve success. In the latter days of my Guru Maharaja he was very disgusted. Actually, he left this world earlier, otherwise he would have continued to live for more years. Still he requested his disciples to form a strong Governing body for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He never recommended anyone to be acarya of the Gaudiya Math. But Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja, and he and others who are already dead unnecessarily thought that there must be one acarya. If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later it proved a failure. The result is now everyone is claiming to be acarya even though they may be kanistha adhikari with no ability to preach. In some of the camps the acarya is being changed three times a year. Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp. Actually amongst my Godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya. So it is better not to mix with my Godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them." Srila Prabhupada's letter to Rupanuga 4/28/74

 

 

"Now, one thing is I understand that in the past you were visiting Lalita Prasadji and that you may also be planning to continue to visit him when you return to India. This is not approved by me and I request you not to go to see him any more. He holds a grudge against my Guru Maharaja and even if it is transcendental it will gradually appear mundane in our eyes. Whatever is to be learned of the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura can be learned from our books. There is no need whatsoever for any outside instruction. So I hope that you have understood these matters and I pray to Krsna always for your protection and advancement in Krsna consciousness." SP letter to Gurukrpa and Yasodanandana, Dec 12, 75

 

 

"Our big, big godbrothers in India, they could not preach Lord Gauranga's name all over India. They are simply inclined to criticize me, that my students call me Prabhupada. They could not do anything practical and tangible. They are satisfied with a temple and a few disciples begging alms for the maintenance of the temple.

 

 

"So, we can understand that they have all become sudras. How can they have interest in Bhagavad-gita. Although some of them have been born in brahmana families, but by quality are all sudras." Srila Prabhupada's letter to Niranjana 5/21/73

 

 

 

 

 

 

[yasodanandana]

(Don't kill the messenger.)

•••the most important thing is that we do not kill ourselves thinking uselessly offensively of other vaishnavas... not considering that:

 

the relationships between prabhupada and his godbrothers are transcendental,

 

not making distinctions between god brothers as prabhupada did,

 

and not considering that prabhupada has explained (also in the last pages of lilamrita) why he was saying like that, that the war is over, and from that moment the word was "collaboration"

 

prabhupada said at first that we have to chant 64 rounds, then 32, then 16... we accept the last instruction of an acharya.. we do not o to see the previous decisions to use them for our advantage

 

so .. the last instruction is collaboration, one family... we accept the last word, the testament of the acharya... i have choose my gurudeva following the instruction of srila prabhupada to find an uttama adhikari (not excluding any organization)

 

this is important... other things are details... prabhupada is not there, we have to find shelter in others.. this math or that math, then, taken refugee as instructed by prabhupada and bhagavad gita, we will see on personal basis if we can serve together (it is the same also within organizations and also within godbrothers)

 

so these citations are true, are to be considered very carefully, and they have a value in the context, time, place and circumstance... the absolute value of them is that our own guru has the preminence, we have to learn and listen from all other acharyas but not wit the purpose to not to following seriously anyone...

 

prabhupada said: "it was for preaching... ", yes.. for cutting the doubts of immature followers and to teach the principle of guru tattva to future generations... guru is the reference to judge others, not that everyone we hear has to be a pretext to put doubts on the guru

[Guest guest]

Los Angeles

31 January, 1969 69-01-31 (to Hrsikesa) [TEXT MISSING] letter of January 9, 1969, I suspect that you have interest in taking instruction from some siksa guru, but in this connection, because you are my disciple and I think, a sincere soul, it is my duty to refer you to someone who is competent to act as siksa guru. This Bon Maharaja, perhaps you do not know, has been rejected by Guru Maharaja. So I cannot recommend him as siksa guru. I think that he has no actual spiritual asset. For spiritual advancement of life, we must go to one who is actually practicing spiritual life; not to some head of a mundane institution, not to one who has offended his Spiritual Master in so many ways. I do not wish to go into all details here, but I must inform you that this Bon Maharaja may be considered as a black snake, and at the time of His Disappearance, my Guru Maharaja did not even wish to have him in His presence due to the character of this Bon Maharaja. So if you are actually serious to take instructions from a siksa guru, I can refer you to one who is most highly competent of all my god-brothers. This is B.R. Sridhara Maharaja, whom I consider to be even my siksa guru, so what to speak of the benefit that you can have from his association. He is living in Navadvipa, and if you like, I can give you letter of introduction as well as I will send him letter to allow you to stay there with him. So if you and Acyutananda are not lost to the poison of Bon Maharaja, and are still serious about advancement of your spiritual life, I will advise you to go to Sridhara Maharaja. Or else I do not know what will save you. So my advice to you both is that you immediately leave the unhealthy and envious association of Bon Maharaja and either proceed to Germany as I have instructed you, or at least go to someone who will be competent to act as sisksha guru. This is Sridhara Maharaja. When I was in India, Acyutananda, Ramanuga, and myself, with others, lived with Sridhara Maharaja, so Acyutananda knows him very well. He spared a big house for us and if both of you go there now, it will be very good for your spiritual benefit. Then I will feel that you are safe. Besides that, if you wish to live in India, you can make arrangements for this house so that other of your god-brothers may go there in the future. Just on the other side of the Ganges there is Mayapur, and you can occasionally or every week go there and learn Bengali and Sanskrit if it is your desire. All facilities are there. Sridhara Maharaja is a very good English scholar and he can talk with you very nicely in English. The room in Vrindaban where you are residing may also be kept so that it may be utilized when necessary. But so far as I am concerned, I am becoming older and older, and my life may be finished at any moment. As I have got my permanent residence in America, it is indication of Krishna that I shall live here to organize this movement to the best possible extent. If I sometimes go out of this country, I will go to Europe only and again come back. So, practically I have decided not to go to India anymore. In case I suddenly meet my death, then I shall make my will how to deal with my body later on. So don't be carried away by whims. It is my duty to save you. Leave Vrindaban, live peacefully with Sridhara Maharaja, if you do not wish to go to Germany, and thereby you will be spiritually enlightened. Please inform me immediately regarding what you have decided.

 

--

 

Los Angeles

21 June, 1972 72-06-21 Bombay My Dear Giriraja, Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated June 13, 1972 and have appreciated its contents very well. I am happy to hear that the men are engaged nicely, especially in the matter of distributing our books. Take any number of books without paying any price, and engage the whole amount for our building work there in Bombay, but the building work must be very superb. Now I have sent you one letter yesterday which I hope by now has cured the situation amongst you all leaders there in Bombay. So if there is neglect or slackening in the building work you may please give all good direction how it may be improved to the topmost standard in all of India. One thing, if our men are making daily between Rs. 30/- and Rs. 120/-, let us say average of Rs. 50/-, so that is Rs. 400-500/- per day, or Rs. 15,000 per month so that is very nice. So in this way you may order increasingly as many books as you can distribute and they will be immediately dispatched to Bombay without any cost to you. So far foodstuffs, you should collect profusely. If you collect more distribute more, and if you collect less, distribute less, but only distribute what you have collected. If there is no food, do not contribute our own funds for this purpose. Try to collect more, besides there is the contribution of American Government. You should purchase one iron safe and keep the Deities' jewelry or any valuables in that, or an iron closet, a little heavier, and you may keep either in my room or in some special room. Ahmedabad is a great industrial city. It has got more than 100 big, big mills and if all of the mill-owners and officers become our members, from Ahmedabad and other cities in Gujarat, such as Baroda, Surat, Dvaraka, Rajkot, like that, you can collect millions of Rs. Also, I remember in Bombay at Akash Ganga there was some invitation from some important persons living near Dakot in Gujarat sometimes before. Whether they have been contacted? If we can open a Center in Dvaraka or Dakor, that will be very nice. In Gujarat State we can open a Center in every city because the people are so much dedicated to Krishna. In Gujarat we can very soon make our movement very popular, because by nature they are devotees of Krishna. There is no question of selling the flats, as you had proposed this idea before of our own men owning the flats and leasing or renting them to devotees. Somehow or other, all of our tenants should be our devotees, and we can give them concession rents, but they should be devotees and at least in our colony there should be no violations of our rules and regulations. Actually make it a Hare Krishna land or a pilgrimage for Vaisnavas and the Indian people in general. I am very much especially pleased that you have had such a nice meeting with Sumati Morarji. She is our old friend and benefactor from long years back, and always she has desired for us to live as her close neighbors. She used to tell me in Bombay two years back that she wanted we should build our temple somewhere nearby to her place. She also assisted Tamala Krishna and Syamasundara. to try to find one house in Juhu for our headquarters several times. So you can mention this fact to her that now we have fulfilled her desire and we are living in close proximity to her, so she should take advantage of Krishna's blessing her with such an opportunity for serving the Lord by herself building our Juhu temple. Encourage her to attend the meetings every day, and if you make the Deity worship very, very opulent and gorgeous, she will automatically be attracted to them. She has no children of her own, so why not she should take Radha and Krishna as her Children? So you can propose gradually and tactfully that she can alone build up a wonderful temple in our property and we shall name it ``Sumati Temple'' or ``Sumati Hall''. So encourage her in this way, and I am very much engladdened that she is so much willing to help us, now you apply yourself to the matter very diligently and think always of Krishna and it will come out very auspiciously. You can ask her to write me her itinerary in London, or if you think so, I will send her a letter personally. You can tell her that I shall be in London during that time also. I am leaving here on morning of July 2nd and arriving London July 5th via New York. I shall be very glad to see her and bring her in our temple there. Or she can write to me when she is there c/o 7 Bury Place. That is a good proposal to receive her at London Airport. Somehow or other, either she pays for the temple herself or she raises the funds from others, she must be persuaded in this great project, which will bring great benefit to her countryman and which will attract many, many foreign devotees of Krishna to the Indian soil for taking up this spiritual life very seriously. It is a unique temple in the world, and if you show your wonderful abilities as American and European boys and girls to manage everything superbly, she will not hesitate to entrust you in every way. Therefore, there must always be good will and cooperation amongst yourselves for this huge task ahead. I always think of our Juhu place, and I want that it shall be the model for all the world to emulate and respect as the perfect example of a Krishna Conscious community. The temple will cost about 2 lakhs, more or less, so Sumati Morarji can pay easily. That is a good idea to print the articles which I have written and insert with photos and advertisements. Visakha will be the leader of designing pamphlets, and she has written also one article, ``Hero of India,'' and she has written it very nicely. One thing is, in one letter to you some days back I gave you notice to send Rs. 1,000/- to Puri Maharaja to his address in Rajhmundry, so if you have not yet sent, do so immediately. After sending, write to me the acknowledgement. So far your question regarding the regulative principles of our devotional life, you can request all the disciples there that this is our life, so why they will not follow? If there is any discrepancy in this matter, you may send me the names. And for Sannyasis such discipline is a must. If Mr. Chhabria wants to send a Sanskrit teacher there, he can teach Ramanuga and he may teach in a class also, I have no objection, but without salary. Our work is honorary. Hoping this will meet you in good health, Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami ACBS/sda

[yasodanandana]

please (me the first) let us not put too much passion on this debate... vaishnava aparadha (for acharyas of the past and present times, gurus, practitioneers, neophites etc.) is extremely dangerous..

 

i beg for the forgiveness of all vaishnavas if i have offended anyone... i did it without real intention... let us go for association not for division

[Govindaram]

"Regarding Bhakti Puri*, Tirtha Maharaja, they are my God-brothers and should be shown respect. But you should not have any intimate connection with them as they have gone against the orders of my Guru Maharaja." Srila Prabhupada Letter to Pradyumna 02/17/68

 

Don't forget the *comma* , i put it in for you prabhu. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

<font color="red"> _____ <font color="pink"> _ </font color> _____ </font color>

|Radio Krishna|

 

[Guest guest]

Just who is "Bhakti Puri"? Does anyone know? There are a lot of people who had "Puri" in their name.

 

Why add a comma when there is none? Were you there when Srila Prabhupad wrote the letter?

[Govindaram]

 

but i checked the letter in the Folio, and it had a comma, i am 26 years old, so there you go..

 

also someone said to me, and i heard YD Prabhu mention this to be a trancendental subject so, we should leave well alone. Haribol!

 

 

[yasodanandana]

when you have started this thread it was the vyasa puja day of Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Maharaja... so, being a devotee, you acted as a messenger of krsna to make me do some service in attempting to speak of guru tattva, gurudeva and prabhupada.

 

So infinite thanks to you and all the assembled vaishnavas

[Guest guest]

 

(Don't kill the messenger.)

•••the most important thing is that we do not kill ourselves thinking uselessly offensively of other vaishnavas...

[yasodanandana]

No one is allowed to post the many quotes Prabhupada gave against his godbroethers even in cases when that SPECIFIC QUESTION has been asked.

•••the criticism for prabhupada's godbrothers is a sport practiced by many people.. i do not think that in our days there's lack of it in books, internet, classes etc.

So you, me and other's are allowed to criticize anyone.. even sri krishna... but the opinion of who says that these quotes by prabhupada are said for specific times and circumstance is not stupid or sectarian because it is based on what prabhupada has said at the moment of his disappearance. And it is taken from some iskcon books, lilamrita.. conversations...

So, to say "be careful when you enter this subject.. prabhupada has already given the last word..." is not so strange, one cannot agree (at his own risk), but it is not strange, sectarian, fanatic etc.

 

if you were in the day when prabhupada proposed 64 daily rounds to young american devotees, you can support the thesis with plenty of citations, prabhupada can say the entire vedas in one single day.. but what's the use if the next day his divine grace says: "16 rounds is ok?"

 

A devotee is never allowed to have THAT opinion because it threatens those who have his godbrothers as their guru

•••it is a good thing to consider, you cannot believe that an entire group of devotees are wrong or prabhupada/iskcon offenders especially in this not so easy matter, because thinking at the devotees as sects, groups, churchs is in itself against the vaishnava personalist concept of the reality.

 

Vaishnavas are noct sectarian, they do not think that all the people who make one particular thing is doing it with the same consciousness

 

. So we have respectable vaishnavas and fanatic neophytes in all camps, and respecting all of them we do not use the "critical" quotes of acharyas in a non proper way... or if we use these quotes there's the possibility that one answers that our quoting is out of place or that these quotes have been "updated" from the acharya and it is almost useless to put them out in this discussion.

 

So what's the problem? Say and think what you want but accept the free opinion of other's telling sincerely to you to be careful when you speak of vaishnavas..

 

even if you are using the words of your spiritual master, his vision, position, plans and motivations are different from yours...

 

prabhupada says : ".........rascals!!"

if i say ".........rascals!!" it has a completely different value even if i am speaking of the same people, i am not prabhupada

 

 

[mahak]

Haribol. Some folks want to make Srila Prabhupada out as one who toiok every opportunity to speak ill of his peers.

 

The opposite was often the case.

 

The other times, like all these examples given here, look at the addressee! Who is the letter to???

 

To the disciple, from GURU.

 

So, if proper context is derived from these statements, this is the scenario.

 

I go to prabhupada, and say, "I found a really neat guru down the street, and I want to go hear from him. What do you think, swamiji?"

 

Srila Prabhupada responds, as my SPIRITUAL MASTER, "Leave them alone, they are not for you. We have entered into a formal relationship ordained by Lord Nityananda, the guru disciple relationship. This means that you come to me for guidance."

 

If I insist, Srila Prabhupada is not mad at me. He is saddened because he sees that I have not made any advancement, that I cannot see God, cannot see GURU, cannot see even my own fool self.

 

Its never a question of who knows the truth, who is cool, who is holy, and who is even holier than that. It is a question of LOVE only.

 

No, prabhupada never had a war with his peers, he just had many faithless disciples who cared less about his position in their spiritual development.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Dervish]

I find it rather sad that a seemingly innocuous query about Srila BV Puri Maharaj (on his Vyas Puja, no less) was perhaps a coy, furtive attempt at trolling for yet another ISKCON/Ritvik/Scions of ISKCON vs. Gaudiya Math mega-debate.

 

It is repugnant that such an opening was utilized to become controversial, the instigators seize a sanctimonious air of righteous indignation and blame everything, from the Bon Maharaj conflict of the 1960's to relatively recent internet flame-wars perpetuated by so-called representitives of various Gaudiya missions, on somebody asking a question about Srila Puri Maharaj, and Yasodanandana prabhu's response to a question overtly challenging the validity of believing in Srila Puri Maharaj as a bone-fide diksha guru.

 

There was a time 26-38 years ago, when Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad came to the people of the west, and so many were very mercifully given his direction association, his direct service, and an eternal spiritual connection through diksha, and eternal samskaras through his siksa.

 

In the meantime, there were a few disciples who were new, or had some poor aptitude to the student guru relationship, and perhaps "I found a really neat guru down the street, and I want to go hear from him. What do you think, swamiji?" was actually uttered a few times, and not just literary hyperbole.

 

All disciples were to stay with Srila Prabhupad, and rightfully so. With Srila Prabhupad to guide them directly in these beautiful, merciful years, who or what else did they need? And just as Srila Prabhupad had said in some letters, there might have been some godbrothers who had no qualification to give siksa or diksa, but had capacity to do damage to Prabhupad's worldwide preaching efforts. And there might have been qualified souls as well, but for the sake of simplicity and easy understanding of all the newcomers to Krsna consciousness, it was presented in a simple manner. "Hear from me only" (approximation).

 

Years later, it was the zonals acharyas who ultimately did the most damage to Srila Prabhupad's movement, and made the world, especially the US, see it as a scandalous cult. The more extreme ritviks who had the fortune of having association of Srila Prabhupad while he was on the planet, who expect everyone else to see Srila Prabhupad from their eyes don't improve this dark situation.

 

Some of us were too young to have ever taken face to face initiation with Srila Prabhupad (or perhaps some of us found Krishna conciousness at an older age!). We should not be chewed out for taking shelter of one of Prabhupad’s godbrothers, or even one of the disciples of his godbrothers (god-nephews?).

 

What is sad is that we are subject to the shameless proselytizers who are hawking their version of how things went between their group and Srila Prabhupad. I may be seen as a young, and impressionable person who can get sucked into a group, so borrowing a phrase from the previous poster, “So, if proper context is derived from these statements, this is the scenario.”

 

I have been pressured either to accept the so-called Prabhupad Ritvik order of July 9 th 1977, heed the conversation between Narayan Maharaj and Prabhupad where “see to them” = take Diksha shelter of Narayan Maharaj, or to read a plethora of letters by Prabhupad written during the prime of ISKCON where his disciples were to avoid his godbrothers, and accept that as canon governing our modern scenario.

 

If I accept one of those 3 over the other, I have older men from 2 other groups telling me how misguided I am, and how saddened Srila Prabhupad would be. If I choose none of the above, then even worse, all 3 and maybe even more want a piece of the action. But I want nothing of it.

 

Let me finally make it clear that I am certainly not upset when I hear some people like one institution, like one acharya etc, but don't feel inspired by the other. To let this intolerance get thrown around is the complete antithesis to the compassion and open-minded tolerance that Sanatana Dharma is universally known for.

 

You will never convince me that your ISKCON/Ritvik/Scions of ISKCON mission is so righteous and pure that I would abandon my Gaudiya Math guru, and I in turn will never convince you that my Gaudiya Math guru is superior to your ISKCON/Ritvik/Scions of ISKCON guru or institution. I accept that, and I hope you all do too.

 

The pasting of quotes below is definetely not an attempt to say I'm right and you're wrong, but the variation in instruction by Srila Prabhupad shows you cannot merely oversimplify, and call every single Gaudiya Vaishnava besides Srila Prabhupad "a really neat guru down the street" that would make Srila Prabhupad "saddened" if we hear from them.

 

"In keeping with the spirit of the previous acarya's vision of Gaudiya-Madhva sampradaya, to cement relations with all the sister temples of Gaudiya-Madhva sampradaya under one banner, to solidify preaching the message of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, as desired by His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada and Srila Thakura Bhaktivinoda and all the previous acaryas in this line." (Room Conversation, Vrindaban, October 29, 1977

 

"Even amongst our God-brothers we have misunderstanding but none of us is astray from the service of Krishna. My Guru Maharaja ordered us to execute his mission combinedly. Unfortunately we are now separated. But none of us have stopped preaching Krishna Consciousness. Even if there was misunderstanding amongst the God-brothers of my Guru Maharaja none of them deviated from the transcendental loving service of Krishna. The idea is that provocation and misunderstanding may remain between one man and another. But our staunch faith in Krishna Consciousness may not allow any material disruption. Please therefore try to be sympathetic with any person even if they differ. The only qualification we have to scrutinize is if one is acting in Krishna Consciousness as far as one is able to do it. This personal grudge is not inhuman and as I have told many times, that individualism is the cause of personal misunderstanding. When such individualism is employed in the center of Krishna there is no harm even if there is personal misunderstanding. Personal misunderstanding exists even in the higher levels. There is competition of loving Krishna even in the party of Srimati Radharani." Letter to: Brahmananda : 67-11-18 Calcutta

 

"Among Vaisnavas there may be some difference of opinion due to everyone's personal identity, but despite all personal differences, the cult of Krsna consciousness must go on. We can see that under the instructions of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja began preaching the Krsna consciousness movement in an organized way within the past hundred years. The disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja are all Godbrothers, and although there are some differences of opinion, and although we are not acting conjointly, every one of us is spreading this Krsna consciousness movement according to his own capacity and producing many disciples to spread it all over the world." Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty-eight, Text 31

[Govindaram]

I find it rather sad that a seemingly innocuous query about Srila BV Puri Maharaj (on his Vyas Puja, no less) was perhaps a coy, furtive attempt at trolling for yet another ISKCON/Ritvik/Scions of ISKCON vs. Gaudiya Math mega-debate.

 

Could somebody get this big question mark off over my head please?

 

Anyways..

 

"Even amongst our God-brothers we have misunderstanding but none of us is astray from the service of Krishna. My Guru Maharaja ordered us to execute his mission combinedly. Unfortunately we are now separated. But none of us have stopped preaching Krishna Consciousness. Even if there was misunderstanding amongst the God-brothers of my Guru Maharaja none of them deviated from the transcendental loving service of Krishna. The idea is that provocation and misunderstanding may remain between one man and another. But our staunch faith in Krishna Consciousness may not allow any material disruption. Please therefore try to be sympathetic with any person even if they differ. The only qualification we have to scrutinize is if one is acting in Krishna Consciousness as far as one is able to do it. This personal grudge is not inhuman and as I have told many times, that individualism is the cause of personal misunderstanding. When such individualism is employed in the center of Krishna there is no harm even if there is personal misunderstanding. Personal misunderstanding exists even in the higher levels. There is competition of loving Krishna even in the party of Srimati Radharani." Letter to: Brahmananda : 67-11-18 Calcutta

 

What a quote! /images/graemlins/grin.gif