disbelief

[aimless]

I was introduced to the Hare Krishna religion some years ago. It seemed cool to me at first, but over the years I have developed quite a few doubts about the existence of Krishna and find much of the belief system to seem alot like mythology. So far no one I have talked to really given me any good explaination why I should believe in Krishna. I have read all of Prabhupada's books, and some of them several times, and I find that I am not convinced byt his arguments. I used to chant Hare Krishna but I quit because after many years, there was still no results. Someone told me I must have not been doing it correctly, but that seems like a cop out answer. I have met many devotees in this life time and I have never met anyone who has really experienced any kind of realization of Krishna which increases my doubt.

 

So i am posting this message up here to ask anyone who might like to reply some questions.

 

Why should I accept that Krishna is real? I will no longer blindly just "believe" in him.

 

How do we know that the Indian scriptures were not simply just stories written down by men as oppossed to divinely inspired. Or how do we know they are not just some kind of folk lore or just plain fiction? I hear Hare Krishna people subject other religions like Chritianity and Islam to historical scrutiny all the time, but they don't seem to want to subject the vedas to the same scrutiny, but how do we know it isn't all just made up? Many people don't think the vedas and especially the Puranas and mahabharata are really 5000 years old but were written in the 300-700's AD. The Bhagavatam itself talks about things that happened in the Mauryan empire (8th and 9th centuries BC?)using the past tense (meaning that it was written afterward). So why should I accept they are really 5000 years old?

 

Thanks for your time.

[ancient_paztriot]

I think if Prabhupada can't convince you, then no one can.

[lover_soul]

Vedas weren't written, they were passed on. Bhagavad Gita was also passed on through oral tradition. My grandfather memorized Bhagavad Gita orally from his Guru. He also memorized puranas, ithihas and everything. Still, one of my uncles from my father's side knows puranas and still gives the purana kalashyepam in India. So, actually even today, these things in India are passed on to others as knowledge orally, not from a book.

 

This brings out a question... So, are these truly old? because lets say I learned this poem yesterday, but you wrote down a poem today, I write it down tomorrow... which one is older? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Govindaram]

 

to congratuate you on your findings of your MIND, it has been thinking to much lately (FOOL!), hit it with a big old broomstick!

 

 

[Guest guest]

you really have no control over your beliefs,you believe

what God wants you to believe,end of story.

 

It's all about destiny,when your time comes Krsna will

reveal the truth to you, as He says in the Gita,

It is I who will illuminate your consciousness,I will

dispell the darkness of ignorance,I who am sitting in

your heart,who is part of your consciousness,I will

reveal this directly to you.

 

Sridhar Maharaj gives the example of the sun,you see the sun

by it's own illumination,you don't need a light to see the sun,it reveals itself,utilizing it's own light.

 

As far as historical concerns there is a big difference between Vedic and abrahamic documents and historical scholarship.

 

In the abrahamic tradition we can study ancient texts,

and ancillary texts of around the same period,although

the furthur back in time we explore the dependence on

speculation increases,still there are many ancient sites

with a large amount of historical data preserved by dry heat

and left from civilizations that were abandoned.

 

In Vedic history it is much more difficult to find data,

one thing is the climate of wet and cold and wet and hot

causes deterioration over time of everything.

 

also Vedic culture was never abandoned,so anything of the

ancient past would have been used till it fell apart,

leaving few things if anything for today's study.

 

Trying to date Vedic scripture is extremely difficult

because it has been copied into many languages by many sects over a long period of time, so we may find in various

sources interpolations from various times.

 

You need to keep in mind that even today the accepted history of India has been utterly disproven by scholars,

the so called aryan invasion theory,yet it is still taught

as truth in academia,so what is true and what is outdated

is not of concern to universities at this time,so you will

find many claims that are false,simply repeated from

the claims of 19th century colonialists with a vested

interest in diminishing the Vedic history in order to

promote christianity in India.

[lover_soul]

Where is all that Vaishnava humility?

 

[gHari]

The Vedas are from beyond time. As such they are a telling, a foretelling, and a recounting, all at the same time.

 

Faith comes from using the scientific approach revealed by Lord Krsna to Arjuna in the conversation known as the Bhagavad-gita. You need accept nothing on blind faith. Indeed, only a weak motivation would cause one to do this. Build from simple premises using the methods described and eventually more and more truth becomes revealed in the process. Things will happen, levels of realization of the ultimate truth and fabric of life that will create a faith that is beyond words.

 

Krsna is real. He is God. He is our best friend. These things can be known without any blind adherence to dogma.

 

Until you are strong in the faith beyond words, avoid atheists, agnostics and critics. God is not to be used to build our egos, to impress and entertain our neighbours and friends. The penalty for such an offense is that they will turn and rend you with their diseases of doubt, complacency and arrogant envy of God. This most definitely includes the silly chatter of the internet. Keep the motivation pure and Krsna will see your sincerity. That is all He wants.

 

gHari

[Govindaram]

 

I should give better advice than my previous attempt,

 

In a lecture once 'aimless prabhu, i heard His Divine Grace say "'there HAS to be programme for srimad bhagavatam' otherwise after a while everything is lost and you will be discusted", so from this you can see that reading regular i.e 1 hour a day, is very important. To build your faith, hope this has helped. Haribol.

 

[Dervish]

"I hear Hare Krishna people subject other religions like Chritianity and Islam to historical scrutiny all the time, but they don't seem to want to subject the vedas to the same scrutiny, but how do we know it isn't all just made up?"

 

While it's possible that some devotees may question some things about Christinity and Islam, I doubt there are any devotees who would say that both are simply made up faiths with no potential of spirituality. Many, including some acharyas, have accepted Jesus as an avatar of God, and Srila Haridas Thakur has said the chanting of Allah and Vishnu is the same.

[lover_soul]

Many, including some acharyas, have accepted Jesus as an avatar of God, and Srila Haridas Thakur has said the chanting of Allah and Vishnu is the same.

[ancient_paztriot]

"I have read all of Prabhupada's books, and some of them several times, and I find that I am not convinced byt his arguments."

 

Why would anyone read a book several times unless he wants to understand? And why is the meaning hidden from a sincere individual who persists to understand - especially with a teacher like Prabhupada?

 

I don't buy it. Sounds like some conspiracy or a movie to me …definately something staged. Doesn't sound like real life to me. Sounds like fiction.

 

I don't belive that anymore than I believe that the people with no 'faith' have good intentions. I mean what are they doing here?

[Dervish]

Aimless,

 

When you say you want proof, what kind of proof do you want? Scientific proof?

 

http://www.vnn.org/world/WD0210/WD07-7592.html

 

Is this what you're talking about?

 

Sita Ram!

[livingentity]

The infallible Vedic wisdom comes to us through disciplic succession, from Krsna, and in that way is saved from human imperfection. Mundane knowledge is always defective, Vedic knowledge is free from such shortcomings.

 

The Vedas are sabda, or spiritual sound vibration, and are the best form of evidence.

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

Strong

to the point

seeing only the eye of the bird

take aim

shoot down the skeptic

bird's eye

get the prize trophy of real faith

unshakable

realized

spirit is truth

Krishna

 

krsnadas

 

'The Vedas are from beyond time. As such they are a telling, a foretelling, and a recounting, all at the same time.

 

Faith comes from using the scientific approach revealed by Lord Krsna to Arjuna in the conversation known as the Bhagavad-gita. You need accept nothing on blind faith. Indeed, only a weak motivation would cause one to do this. Build from simple premises using the methods described and eventually more and more truth becomes revealed in the process. Things will happen, levels of realization of the ultimate truth and fabric of life that will create a faith that is beyond words.

 

Krsna is real. He is God. He is our best friend. These things can be known without any blind adherence to dogma.

 

Until you are strong in the faith beyond words, avoid atheists, agnostics and critics. God is not to be used to build our egos, to impress and entertain our neighbours and friends. The penalty for such an offense is that they will turn and rend you with their diseases of doubt, complacency and arrogant envy of God. This most definitely includes the silly chatter of the internet. Keep the motivation pure and Krsna will see your sincerity. That is all He wants.'

[cRimAl]

I'm curious now aimless...did you get a satisfying answer here ?!

 

My personal advice would be: don't question it too much. we're just humans and we don't even know yet how we should live on in peace with the earth and those living on it, yet we want to understand difficult questions like 'who God is' or what the whole plan is...

I think that these are all questions that will only arise more and more doubts and doubts are really a big obstacle on the spiritual path. Now, I do embrace questioning, in fact, we need to have a critical mind in this world, but some things we also just need to accept, very much like childeren have to believe certain things that are told to them by their parents.

 

I'm sure sure that we will know and understand the answers one day but I don't see that day being close and untill that day we just need to have faith. Listen very closely to your heart, it'll tell you what's best for you.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

you really have no control over your beliefs,you believe what God wants you to believe,end of story.

 

 

Actually Prabhupada tells us the ONLY freewill we have is to choose to serve therefore believe in Krishna, or to choose to serve therefore believe in Maya.