The lies I tell myself

January 19, 2004

I am a devotee.

I am a disciple of Srila ---Maharaja.

I 'chant' my rounds.

I follow the 4 regs

I am 'doing'devotional service

I am going back to Godhead in this very life.

In order to know the truth i need to stop lieing to meself,for Krishna's sake.

Praying to become thouroghly honest

krsnadas

Govindaram · January 20, 2004

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.7.13-14

--

Vrindavana, September 12, 1976

Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada:

<font color="red"> A brahmana will never speak lies. </font color> That is the first qualification. So who is going to take training in that way? Nobody is interested. This is Kali-yuga. We are trying to train people "No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication." Still, there are some failures. And if we teach in our institution, "Please do not speak lies," people will laugh: "What is this nonsense? Nowadays is it possible to remain in this society without speaking lies?" This is the position. This is called Kali-yuga. Nobody is interested to be trained up as a brahmana. Nobody is interested to be trained up as a ksatriya, neither as a vaisya. They are all sudras. Therefore it is said, kalau sudra-sambhavah. There is no training. It is very very difficult to train them to become purified by training. These statuses of life were different status of training so that ultimately one can become brahmana, and when he's fully trained up as a brahmana then he transcends the brahmana's position, and he becomes a Vaisnava.

So to become Vaisnava is not so easy thing. One has to become brahmana, then when he surpasses the stages of becoming brahmana then he becomes a Vaisnava. Suddha-sattva. Sattvam visuddham vasudeva-sabditam. Then Krishna is born. When one comes to the Vaisnava stage, then he can understand what is Krishna.

gHari · January 20, 2004

To see that patting oneself on the back while ignoring the most important change of heart is a lie is very honest.

We must remember it is not a cult. A true change of heart is required for success. We must never become complacent with our lies about our proper situation. We are not fools; we cannot cheat ourselves with our own lies.

Certainly to be so properly situated is a good start to changing the heart. But if we forget the reason for all the rituals, then they simply become lies, just as you say.

"When you're up to your waist in crocodiles, it's hard to remember that you originally went in there to drain the swamp". The overwhelmed bhakta oozes into the mucky labyrinth of the mind mire maze, dazed, swamped, deluded, becoming a raving jnani stuck forever in the quicksand of the quarrelsome mind, forgetting entirely the noble quest, the noble heart that drew him there.

A teaspoon of humility to refocus on the goal from Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.25:<BLOCKQUOTE><CENTER><FONT COLOR=RED>tad azma-sAraM hRdayaM batedaM

yad gRhyamANair hari-nAma-dheyaiH

na vikriyetAtha yadA vikAro

netre jalaM gAtra-ruheSu harSaH

</center>

tat--that; azma-sAram--is steel-framed; hRdayam--heart; bata idam--certainly that; yat--which; gRhyamANaiH--in spite of chanting; hari-nAma--the holy name of the Lord; dheyaiH--by concentration of the mind; na--does not; vikriyeta--change; atha--thus; yadA--when; vikAraH--reaction; netre--in the eyes; jalam--tears; gAtra-ruheSu--at the pores; harSaH--eruptions of ecstasy.

</font>

Certainly that heart is steel-framed which, in spite of one's chanting the holy name of the Lord with concentration, does not change when ecstasy takes place, tears fill the eyes and the hairs stand on end.

We should note with profit that in the first three chapters of the Second Canto a gradual process of development of devotional service is being presented. In the First Chapter the first step in devotional service for God consciousness by the process of hearing and chanting has been stressed, and a gross conception of the Personality of Godhead in His universal form for the beginners is recommended. By such a gross conception of God through the material manifestations of His energy, one is enabled to spiritualize the mind and the senses and gradually concentrate the mind upon Lord ViSNu, the Supreme, who is present as the Supersoul in every heart and everywhere, in every atom of the material universe. The system of paJca-upAsanA, recommending five mental attitudes for the common man, is also enacted for this purpose, namely gradual development, worship of the superior that may be in the form of fire, electricity, the sun, the mass of living beings, Lord Siva and, at last, the impersonal Supersoul, the partial representation of Lord ViSNu. They are all nicely described in the Second Chapter, but in the Third Chapter further development is prescribed after one has actually reached the stage of ViSNu worship, or pure devotional service, and the mature stage of ViSNu worship is suggested herein in relation to the change of heart.

The whole process of spiritual culture is aimed at changing the heart of the living being in the matter of his eternal relation with the Supreme Lord as subordinate servant, which is his eternal constitutional position. So with the progress of devotional service, the reaction of change in the heart is exhibited by gradual detachment from the sense of material enjoyment by a false sense of lording it over the world and an increase in the attitude of rendering loving service to the Lord. Vidhi-bhakti, or regulated devotional service by the limbs of the body (namely the eyes, the ears, the nose, the hands and the legs, as already explained hereinbefore), is now stressed herein in relation to the mind, which is the impetus for all activities of the limbs of the body. It is expected by all means that by discharging regulated devotional service one must manifest the change of heart. If there is no such change, the heart must be considered steel-framed, for it is not melted even when there is chanting of the holy name of the Lord. We must always remember that hearing and chanting are the basic principles of discharging devotional duties, and if they are properly performed there will follow the reactional ecstasy with signs of tears in the eyes and standing of the hairs on the body. These are natural consequences and are the preliminary symptoms of the bhAva stage, which occurs before one reaches the perfectional stage of prema, love of Godhead.

If the reaction does not take place, even after continuous hearing and chanting of the holy name of the Lord, it may be considered to be due to offenses only. That is the opinion of the Sandarbha. In the beginning of chanting of the holy name of the Lord, if the devotee has not been very careful about evading the ten kinds of offenses at the feet of the holy name, certainly the reaction of feelings of separation will not be visible by tears in the eyes and standing of the hair on end.

The bhAva stage is manifested by eight transcendental symptoms, namely inertness, perspiration, standing of hairs on end, failing in the voice, trembling, paleness of the body, tears in the eyes and finally trance. The Nectar of Devotion, a summary study of SrIla RUpa GosvAmI's Bhakti-rasAmRta-sindhu, explains those symptoms and vividly describes other transcendental developments, both in steady and accelerating manifestations.

SrIla VizvanAtha CakravartI ThAkura has very critically discussed all these bhAva displays in connection with some unscrupulous neophyte's imitating the above symptoms for cheap appreciation. Not only VizvanAtha CakravartI but also SrIla RUpa GosvAmI treated them very critically. Sometimes all the above eight symptoms of ecstasy are imitated by the mundane devotees (prAkRta-sahajiyAs), but the pseudo symptoms are at once detected when one sees the pseudodevotee addicted to so many forbidden things. Even though decorated with the signs of a devotee, a person addicted to smoking, drinking or illegitimate sex with women cannot have all the above-mentioned ecstatic symptoms. But it is seen that sometimes these symptoms are willfully imitated, and for this reason SrIla VizvanAtha CakravartI accuses the imitators of being stonehearted men. They are sometimes even affected by the reflection of such transcendental symptoms, yet if they still do not give up the forbidden habits, then they are hopeless cases for transcendental realization.

When Lord Caitanya met SrIla RAmAnanda RAya of Kavaur on the bank of the GodAvarI, the Lord developed all these symptoms, but because of the presence of some nondevotee brAhmaNas who were attendants of the RAya, the Lord suppressed these symptoms. So sometimes they are not visible even in the body of the first-class devotee for certain circumstantial reasons. Therefore real, steady bhAva is definitely displayed in the matter of cessation of material desires (kSAnti), utilization of every moment in the transcendental loving service of the Lord (avyArtha-kAlatvam [Cc.Madhya 23.18-19]), eagerness for glorifying the Lord constantly (nAma-gAne sadA ruci [Cc. Madhya 23.32]), attraction for living in the land of the Lord (prItis tad-vasati sthalePrItis tad vasati sthAle), complete detachment from material happiness (virakti), and pridelessness (mAna-zUnyatA). One who has developed all these transcendental qualities is really possessed of the bhAva stage, as distinguished from the stonehearted imitator or mundane devotee.

The whole process can be summarized as follows: The advanced devotee who chants the holy name of the Lord in a perfectly offenseless manner and is friendly to everyone can actually relish the transcendental taste of glorifying the Lord. And the result of such realization is reflected in the cessation of all material desires, etc., as mentioned above. The neophytes, due to their being in the lower stage of devotional service, are invariably envious, so much so that they invent their own ways and means of devotional regulations without following the AcAryas. As such, even if they make a show of constantly chanting the holy name of the Lord, they cannot relish the transcendental taste of the holy name. Therefore, the show of tears in the eyes, trembling, perspiration or unconsciousness, etc., is condemned. They can, however, get in touch with a pure devotee of the Lord and rectify their bad habits; otherwise they shall continue to be stonehearted and unfit for any treatment. A complete progressive march on the return path home, back to Godhead, will depend on the instructions of the revealed scriptures directed by a realized devotee.</blockquote>

gHari

January 20, 2004

A brahmana will never speak lies. That is the first qualification. So who is going to take training in that way? Nobody is interested. This is Kali-yuga. We are trying to train people "No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication." Still, there are some failures. And if we teach in our institution, "Please do not speak lies," people will laugh: "What is this nonsense? Nowadays is it possible to remain in this society without speaking lies?" This is the position. This is called Kali-yuga. Nobody is interested to be trained up as a brahmana.

OK

no more lies,i.e,scams

cheating

duplicity

deflecting the truth about myself

by finding fault in others,

etc

krsnadas

January 20, 2004

More luminous than the sun

this honesty:do I have it?

Or is it coming only from the lips or keyboard? /images/graemlins/blush.gif

"The whole process can be summarized as follows: The advanced devotee who chants the holy name of the Lord in a perfectly offenseless manner and is friendly to everyone can actually relish the transcendental taste of glorifying the Lord. And the result of such realization is reflected in the cessation of all material desires, etc., as mentioned above. The neophytes, due to their being in the lower stage of devotional service, are invariably envious, so much so that they invent their own ways and means of devotional regulations without following the AcAryas. As such, even if they make a show of constantly chanting the holy name of the Lord, they cannot relish the transcendental taste of the holy name. Therefore, the show of tears in the eyes, trembling, perspiration or unconsciousness, etc., is condemned. They can, however, get in touch with a pure devotee of the Lord and rectify their bad habits; otherwise they shall continue to be stonehearted and unfit for any treatment. A complete progressive march on the return path home, back to Godhead, will depend on the instructions of the revealed scriptures directed by a realized devotee."

Will I continue to be "stonehearted and unfit for any treatment" /images/graemlins/confused.gif

gHari · January 20, 2004

The professor from Hawaii has already selected that name. You must choose another name.

krsna · March 9, 2004

It Is Very Honest [re: Guest]

01/20/04 01:45 AM Edit Reply

To see that patting oneself on the back while ignoring the most important change of heart is a lie is very honest.

We must remember it is not a cult. A true change of heart is required for success. We must never become complacent with our lies about our proper situation. We are not fools; we cannot cheat ourselves with our own lies.

Certainly to be so properly situated is a good start to changing the heart. But if we forget the reason for all the rituals, then they simply become lies, just as you say.

"When you're up to your waist in crocodiles, it's hard to remember that you originally went in there to drain the swamp". The overwhelmed bhakta oozes into the mucky labyrinth of the mind mire maze, dazed, swamped, deluded, becoming a raving jnani stuck forever in the quicksand of the quarrelsome mind, forgetting entirely the noble quest, the noble heart that drew him there.

A teaspoon of humility to refocus on the goal from Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.25:

tad azma-sAraM hRdayaM batedaM