France Bans Headscarfes

[Gauracandra]

This it seems to me is clearly an infringement upon the religious rights of individuals in France. Its not completely foolish, just mostly. I some schools in the U.S. they ban certain gang colors, and bandanas, because they don't want turf battles. But if a religious Muslim girl wants to wear a head scarf then who is to stop her? If all Muslims decided to wear green shoelaces, they'd ban that too, just because it identifies them as Muslim. Of course they are also banning yarmulkas, and Christian crosses. I'm sure they think they are being neutral, but if you ban these things, but allow secular symbols, then you are biasing already.

[sinimat]

This is sad and reminds me about reading that in the future of Kali yuga, one will be punished even for uttering the name of God, or something along these lines. Yeah, these people think they are so liberal, but they are just ignorant.

Haribol!

[Guest guest]

Les francais son con(The French are so bad when it comes to civility and human culture)

 

French schools law may ban beards

 

 

The beard could be seen as a religious symbol

A proposed ban on religious symbols in French state schools could include a ban on beards, according to the French education minister.

Luc Ferry said the law, which will be debated in parliament next month, could ban headscarves, bandannas and beards if they are considered a sign of faith.

 

But he said Sikhs might be able to wear head coverings if they were discreet.

 

The proposals, backed by President Jacques Chirac, follow an official report into state secularism.

 

Mr Ferry, in a National Assembly legal committee hearing about the draft law, said the definition of a religious symbol in the proposed law was broad so that pupils could not bypass the law simply by deviating from a list of proscribed items.

 

Some Muslim girls wear bandannas to cover their hair as an alternative to the traditional headscarf, feeling it is easier to blend in to the crowd.

 

Asked about beards, as worn by many Muslims, Mr Ferry said: "As soon as it becomes a religious sign and the code is apparent, it would fall under this law."

 

Discipline

 

As the proposal stands at the moment, discreet religious symbols - such as a small star of David or cross worn around the neck - would be permitted.

 

Mr Ferry also acknowledged that Sikhs were not permitted by their religion to cut their hair, and suggested that they could wear caps.

 

Beards are not at stake because we have young boys and they don't have beards

 

Jacques Myard MP

But he said ordinary headbands, which he described as "invisible turbans", were preferable to traditional headgear.

 

Jacques Myard, an MP from Mr Chirac's ruling party, told the BBC that beards would not be an issue in schools.

 

"Beards are not at stake because we have young boys and they don't have beards," he said.

 

"This is more a question of discipline than any religious or political affair but I would say today that we are not facing a religious approach with the Muslims.

 

"We are facing a genuine political policy that tries to enforce their own Sharia Law on the civil law which is not acceptable."

 

He told the BBC's World Update programme that France was "absolutely tolerant to any religion".

 

French opposition Socialists have described the proposals as misguided and unclear.

 

Protests

 

Socialist deputy Julien Dray said: "This is putting a comic face on a very serious issue."

 

Centrist Francois Bayrou said the planned ban as "a whiff of oxygen for fundamentalists" who would exploit it to whip up protests.

 

Thousands of Muslims joined demonstrations across France against the proposed law on Saturday.

 

Many of France's five million Muslims see it as an attack on their religious and human rights.

 

But Mr Chirac's stand reflects popular opinion in France where some 70% of the electorate have said they back a ban on religious symbols in schools.

 

Divisions have emerged within France's Muslim community over tactics.

 

 

[Gauracandra]

If you ban religious symbols because they are divisive, then you are weighing in on the culture. Its like if you go to school and say "You can wear your Britney Spears t-shirt, but you over there you can't wear a headscarf", in essence you are siding with teeny-bopper pop culture against religious chastity. This will push people towards certain directions. All of a sudden chastity becomes taboo.

[Streetstraw]

Well this time the French have gone too far. Covered heads signify chastity, something some French gave up long ago. I can copncentrate best in an all boys classroom, better in a covered-head women's class.

[krsna]

Assembly OK's Islamic scarf ban

After fierce debate, the French Assembly votes to ban religious headgear and other symbols in schools, lest they further religious extremism. The Senate must also approve.

BY MATTHEW SCHOFIELD

Knight Ridder News Service

 

The French National Assembly voted Tuesday to ban the traditional head scarf worn by Islamic women, known as the hajib, from public schools after a six-month national debate during which combatants called one another racists, sexists and oppressors.

 

The new measure, which is almost certain to be approved by the French Senate, also would ban other religious symbols, including large Christian crosses and Jewish skullcaps, but no one in the country pretends that the target of the law is anything other than the hajib in a Europe showing growing discomfort over its burgeoning Muslim population.

 

France -- where Muslims compose the second-largest religious group after Roman Catholics -- has the largest Muslim population in Europe, at five million. A similar plan is pending in Germany.

 

Those wishing to ban head scarves see them as symbols of religious extremism and a sign that women occupy an inferior role in society. They say the dress divides students.

 

Those opposing the ban say the scarves are worn voluntarily, that they show modesty and respect for their religion, and that the measure singles out Islamic traditions and is therefore discriminatory.

 

The vote was something of an anticlimax. Only 36 members of the 577-seat assembly opposed the measure, and the streets outside were filled with tourists, not protesters.

 

But the debate had been fierce, with an emotional timber similar to debate in the United States, for example, over whether the words ''under God'' should be in the Pledge of Allegiance. Both sides felt they had the moral high ground -- each citing the French Revolution as its authority.

 

President Jacques Chirac proposed the measure after a six-month study by a commission headed by Bernard Stasi.

 

Muslims said the measure would discriminate against them. Tens of thousands turned out in street protests.

 

[Guest guest]

Are you all crazy, you stupid camel-riding, cave-dwelling morons? This is the new century and we need to establish a modernized society, not a bunch of pathetic little girls wearing some pathetic little veils!!! Of course, it serves a purpose in the sense we can avoid the ugly muslim women in this manner. Still, it doesn't fit into a modern world, not in this time and age anyway. You guys are supposed to be westerners, you are descendents of the great greek civilization and yet speak like Bin Laden and co. What is wrong with you? Did Krishna forget to put a brain in that little head of yours????

[Avinash]

You guys are supposed to be westerners

 

Why is it so?

[Dervish]

It's too late. The muslims are all over Europe now. Half the Belgian population is Muslim, and they're in every major European country now. They outnumber practicing Anglicans in UK now. Take away the scarves now, despite their being no clear mention of them in the Qur'an, and the Wahhabis will go nuts and start killing people.

[Guest guest]

What I mean is, I understand Indians or other third-worlders protesting this ban, because they are no different from Muslims. They are all wallowing in the third-world mud. But I assumed westerners would have more sense than the third-worlders. Just for the record, I am Indian so don't think I am being racist. Facts are facts. Westerners are too superior and civilized to stoop to the level of us mud people, dont you think?

[Avinash]

Not all here are westerners. The members of this forum are from different parts of the world. Perhaps you are trying to say that those of us who are westerners should be in the favor of banning of wearing head-scarf. Why is it so? Why do you think that wearing head scarf means "stooping to the level of us mud people"?

[Guest guest]

Religion should be practiced in homes/temples. It is not for public display. All religious symbols should be banned for this reason alone. period. Westerners, of all people, should know that. They are the pioneers of secularism. And now, they are becoming religious just like us mud people and making a mess of their own lives, I hate to see the great west going to the dogs in this manner. Do you want them to become third-world as well?????

[Dervish]

Religion should be practiced in homes/temples. It is not for public display.

 

Unfortunately, the Islamic headscarf is specifically for public display (and temples, since that is also public in their eyes), but it is not worn at home.

 

Still, I'd like to see scripture of theirs that specifically prescribes the headscarf.

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately, the Islamic headscarf is specifically for public display (and temples, since that is also public in

their eyes), but it is not worn at home."

 

Does that mean you and I agree on this?

 

Still, I'd like to see scripture of theirs that specifically prescribes the headscarf."

 

So would I!

 

But I do maintain that Hindus or HKs or whatever they call themselves now, must also follow the same rules and give up these ridiculous costumes. Just for the record, I am also Hindu, so dont think I am being prejuduced. I am not an atheist, i just feel that all this religious circus should be done at home only, in the privacy of your puja room or bedroom. Public life should be secular life, free of religion.

[Streetstraw]

In Kaliyuga religion should specifically NOT be kept indoors

According to your Golden Avatar Gaurangadev, Kaliyuga-dharma is what?

[Avinash]

But I do maintain that Hindus or HKs or whatever they call themselves now, must also follow the same rules and give up these ridiculous costumes. Just for the record, I am also Hindu, so dont think I am being prejuduced. I am not an atheist, i just feel that all this religious circus should be done at home only, in the privacy of your puja room or bedroom. Public life should be secular life, free of religion.

 

Why do you think that it is wrong to wear things that pertain to a religion? Can you think of any problem because of that?

[Dervish]

What's wrong with dhotis?

 

I read that in many places and restaurants of India, people with dhotis are not welcome.

 

They had the same policy in Iran; nobody dressed as a Mullah was allowed in certain fancy restaurants and other places of "high society".

 

Years later, people got angry, and they had an Islamic revolution.

 

Theocracies AND strictly secular states are extreme sides of the spectrum. Whichever extreme you go, the nation is unhappy and you sow dissent and upheaval will follow.

[krsna]

Al-Qaeda 'joins headscarf row'

 

 

Zawahiri is considered Osama Bin Laden's deputy

Al-Qaeda's deputy leader Ayman al-Zawahiri has reportedly criticised a French law that includes the banning of Islamic headscarves in state schools.

The decision shows "the grudge the western crusaders have against Islam," Mr Zawahiri said in a tape broadcast on Arabic satellite station al-Arabiya.

 

The tape said the decision by French President Jacques Chirac was part of an ongoing campaign against Islam.

 

The ban on religious symbols sparked protests by Muslims and other groups.

 

Mr Zawahiri has been heard on a number of audio and video tapes since he and al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden lost their bases in Afghanistan in 2001.

 

In the latest tape - if it is confirmed to be him - he said that the headscarf ban was not restricted to France "but a policy implemented by the crusader-Zionists through their agents in Egypt, Turkey, Tunisia and elsewhere in the countries of Islam".

 

The French legislation - which also prohibits large crucifixes, Jewish skullcaps and other signs of faith - was passed by the lower house of parliament on 10 February.

 

It will be examined by the French senate on 2 March and looks certain to pass easily through parliament and come into force in time for the start of the new school year in September.

 

 

[gHari]

Army List Targets Minorities, Magicians

Thu Mar 11, 8:21 AM ET

by Reuters

 

Turkey's army has asked local authorities for information on individuals who could undermine the state, including ethnic minorities, magicians and people who practice meditation, local media said on Wednesday.

 

In a rare statement to the press, the military General Staff confirmed it had asked authorities to gather intelligence because it was necessary to makes plans to take effective measures against incidents that could arise.

Turkey's largest newspaper Hurriyet on Wednesday published a document from the army command asking for information on people who supported the European Union and the United States, as well as the socially elite, members of artistic groups and children of wealthy families.

 

Foreigners living in Turkey and ethnic minorities, including Circassians, Gypsies, Albanians and Bosnians, were on the list. Satanists, freemasons, sympathizers with U.S. white supremacists in the Ku Klux Klan and groups that meditate or congregate on the Internet were also targeted, Hurriyet said.

 

Even necromancers, or magicians who summon spirits from the dead, were included, the paper said. Writers and thinkers who are working against Turkey were also to be investigated.

 

The request could raise eyebrows in the EU, which Turkey aspires to join. Among the reforms Turkey must make before opening entry talks is curbing the role of the military.

Despite recent reforms, the military still wields influence over elected officials. The army has staged three coups since 1960 and sees itself as the ultimate guarantor of Turkey's secular democracy.

 

 

 

[Dervish]

I believe Srila Govinda Maharaj has one disciple or one center in Turkey. I hope all devotees in Turkey will be alright.